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[News] AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH?ANN.lu
Posted on 08-May-2003 13:14 GMT by Troels Ersking126 comments
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According to news at PPCNUX.DE, KDH Datentechnik have recieved 300% more orders on the AmigaOne than on Pegasos. Read the short news here.
Impressive as the sale will get another boost when OS4 is released.

Would have been nice to see some exact numbers but I guess only Eyetech, KDH and BBRV knows these.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 51 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 15:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (pixie):
pixie: MOS is a new clean modernized and "ready for the future" (evolution prospects) operating system; amithlon & UAE are emulators. They are complementary.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 52 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 08-May-2003 15:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Mary Poppins fan):
>Would anyone on here like to join my Mary Poppins appreciation society?

$50 and we get a free T-shirt? ;)
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 53 of 126ANN.lu
Message removed by Christian Kemp for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Off topic / Trolling
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 54 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 08-May-2003 15:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (mahen):
In theory you're right, don't get me wrong I know what his merits are, but despite all that in practice there's not much of a difference,at least from a user point of view. I know WinUAE is't the real thing, but behave very well given a decent system, for me that's what it counts... until MorphOS take the plug from Amiga back and go stand alone on his Q-Box and their killer app, until then is a toy...
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 55 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 15:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (pixie):
I don't get it. So OS4 will be a toy too in its first version ? Do you want MOS to have nothing to do with the amiga to be interested in it ??

I don't understand :-/ MOS is a new OS with a complete rewrite of the AOS API with many extensions etc... Same aim as OS4...

Anyway, everybody chooses what he/she prefers.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 56 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 08-May-2003 15:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (mahen):
I think MorphOS should be set apart from AmigaOS, if not what is the point for him to exist!?

AmigaOS has his legacy of software, MorphOS exploits it, until that changes, MorphOS is more of a toy then AmigaOS4 since at least these use his own legacy, but of course until Aura, Cinema4D, Macromedia get ported OS4 is also a toy...
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 57 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 15:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (mahen):
the big difference lies in the evolution :

in the future, MOS is supposed to use the A/Box for compatibility purposes only and have a completely new amiga-like api

Amiga OS 4 is supposed to merge with the amiga DE

but for the time being, both OS'es use native rewrites of the AmigaOS API (although one uses quark, the other a new exec), but it makes no difference to the user / programmer
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 58 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 16:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (pixie):
MorphOS existed before AmigaOS 4. OS4 doesn't even exist yet. Its aim is to provide a transition path to PPC for Amigans. Just like OS 4. Both OS'es will have new API's etc in the future : evolve into something different. But both are currently compatible with the CLASSIC AmigaOS'es (up to 3.x). Thus, they currently share the same software.

I don't understand why it makes MOS a toy ? Nothing "belongs" to OS4.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 59 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 16:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (pixie):
But of course I get your point : the logical continuation of amiga OS 3 is amiga OS 4 etc etc. Why not just compare the OS'es, when both are ready ?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 60 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 08-May-2003 16:30 GMT
[nitpicking]
Btw, it says 300% *more* orders, not 3 times as many. So unless theres an inaccuracy on both sides, aone has 4 times as many orders.
[/nitpicking]
;)
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 61 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 08-May-2003 16:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (mahen):
> Its aim is to provide a transition path to PPC for Amigans.

Correct but incomplete. Its not only a transition path to PPC but also to a different os (the nonexistant qbox).
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 62 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-May-2003 16:36 GMT
300% more orders when there's not even the Amiga OS available for it.

(A1 sales might include also a little bit less false marketing ... but I agree some would accept the "name" as a huge false marketing stunt..)
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 63 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 08-May-2003 16:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (mahen):
you keep talking about evolution, and that "OS4 doesn't even exist yet"

OS4 isnt something brand new, its a new step for the classic amiga operating
system, a continuation of the legend.
In your evolution view, OS4 is the new evolution...before that there was os3.9,os3.5,os3.1,os2.xx,os1.xx....OS4 does exist, its just not released yet, its in betatesting :)
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 64 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-May-2003 16:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (priest):
and exact sales numbers would be nice...
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 65 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 08-May-2003 16:52 GMT
.. before going back to translating ... why the question mark in the topic? Theres nothing uncertain about it.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 66 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 16:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Ketzer):
If you prefer, MOS is currently like a new enhanced amigaOS, and will be even more afterwards. (like OS3 -> OS4 -> OS5)
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 67 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-May-2003 16:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (bbrv):
What did the "817" number really mean then?
"Our sales commitments for the first 1000 Pegasos went 817 to Linux and the rest to this community (less two for OpenBSD and two for OpenBeOS)."
(from bbrv post @ http://amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1425 )

What does "sales commitments" mean in a few more words?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 68 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 16:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (catohagen):
OS4 is defnitely a major step : it will work on a _completely_ different platform. It's almost a complete rewrite I think (?). So is MOS :)

And as MOS, it's just one step : then, Amiga Inc is supposed to merge it with their AmigaDE.

Anyway, my point has always been that Amigans should consider both products, and base their decisions on which one is better. Because both products have the same aim : new PPC compatible OS with different possible evolutions afterwards (staying amiga-ish of course)
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 69 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 08-May-2003 17:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (mahen):
>it will work on a _completely_ different platform.

on bppc and csppc ? a _completely_ different cpu maybe :)

>It's almost a complete rewrite I think (?). So is MOS :)

mos is a rewrite ? to rewrite something, you need something to write from?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 70 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-May-2003 17:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (mahen):
"MOS is currently like a new enhanced amigaOS"

So far I agree fully.

" and will be even more afterwards. (like OS3 -> OS4 -> OS5)"

I disagree. It most likely will still be like enchanced AmigaOS3.1, but it will start to morph towards what it was planned to be, a OS with it's own apps & merits. (unless the plan has changed to mimic AmigaOS forever)

And when the AmigaOS4 becomes real & ships to end users, it is the new real and official enchanced AmigaOS. Time will tell how similar they then are and which one gains better future.

It really should be enough for the OS just to be Amiga-like and to be able to fully use the EXISTING SW base, to sell well to Amigans. Too bad but the name matters to a lot of "Amiga" fans AND it "rings the bell" AND brings memories & a few more buyers because of nostalgia reasons.
I think, acording to Genesi, MOS & Peg derivates are gaining also their own market and that is a very important thing for them.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 71 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-May-2003 17:23 GMT
btw. are those ordered A1's at KDH all "Earlybird's"? So do they include also the AOS4 licence?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 72 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 17:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (catohagen):
> on bppc and csppc ? a _completely_ different cpu maybe :)

Hmmm, what about the AmigaOne ? Isn't it the aim (no more dependant on the old h/w) ?

> mos is a rewrite ? to rewrite something, you need something to write from?

... has a rewrite of the AOS 3.x API, you understood me ;)
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 73 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-May-2003 17:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (priest):
"All recent shipments are 'Earlybird' systems - i.e. a copy of Amiga OS4.0 will be shipped free of charge, when it becomes available. "

Hmmm... Does Hyperion get a few euros from every sold A1???
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 74 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 17:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (priest):
> And when the AmigaOS4 becomes real & ships to end users, it is the new real and official enchanced AmigaOS. Time will tell how similar they then are and which one gains better future.

I disagree : it we have to wait one more year or more for an official OS4 I say : let's forget it and use & contribute to what exists now to have more chances in succeeding. Anyway the amiga market is dead.

Of course, if both products are to be available soon, so let's choose the best of them !

If MorphOS sucks compared to OS4, so let's forget MOS...

If MOS is just as good as OS4, well, a good point for MOS is that it's very well funded, the bad point is that it's not the official one.

But maybe it's a drawback after all !


Why focus on the "officiality" of things ? Why not focus on products !!!! You'll use the products, not the name !
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 75 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-May-2003 17:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (priest):
+

It seems that it already includes also AmigaOS...
"In addition the shipment contains UAE plus workbench 3.1 and the Amiga Magic Software Paket with Scala MM 300 (SE)."

((LOL))

btw. does scala run on UAE at all? (IIRC, there has been dificulties at some point)
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 76 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 08-May-2003 17:46 GMT
It's Amiga vs. Atari all over again, and we all know who won last time....

AmigaOne! And the WINNER is .....????
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 77 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Paul_Gadd on 08-May-2003 17:47 GMT
If anyone one of those products support and encourage the users to purchase Mr Sheen then they have my custom.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 78 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 18:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Paul_Gadd):
Who is mister Sheen ?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 79 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 18:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Atheist2):
I know it's Off topic,

but the Atari brand will survive and be synonym of modern Pc&consolesgames (it's a shame for the memory of what the atari really is)

while the amiga name will be synonym of PDA games :(
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 80 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 08-May-2003 18:12 GMT
yawn, who cares. Haven't we have enough of these wars already? genesi is good, amiga is bad, ehm, ok? =D

then there are a few genesi computers (pegasos2) to buy aswell as some sort of amigaone + amigaos4 i will start to consider which is the best choice, for the moment is a huge weight over for genesi thought.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 81 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 08-May-2003 18:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (pixie):
I assume that you haven't tried it yet. It's not just that. There's a big difference
from a user POV. Stuff are MUCH more integrated in MorphOS.
A VERY simple example is the prefs system.
It also has stuff like making a system directory itself if it's missing.
Also, it's a dual-sys: system.
The system files are in MOSSYS: and should NOT be touched.
User installed stuff go to the normal SYS:.
Yes, this can be done on AmigaOS but on MOS it's there from the start.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 82 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 18:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Hagge):
Yep, but there is not much to discuss ATM... No interesting news :( :(

Yes I know, I should try to develop something instead of losing my time here !!
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 83 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-May-2003 18:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (priest):
Still talking mainly to myself... (adding to my previous posts)

I went through A1 "marketing material" on KDH site. It's pretty accurate. But things like "Sound, modem & gameport I/O via the AMR header" are stupid mistakes and might decrease sales.

Their A1 material contain a lot of talk about AOS4 that is not available yet. (but perhaps it somehow is even with their peg1 material)

I remembered the staus of the Early bird offer incorrectly, here's KDH's text:
"Preorder-Special (early bird)
All AmigaOne board or system orders, which will be placed before the AmigaOS4 release date is confirmed, will receive a free version of the AmigaOS4-OEM version (when released)."

**************

I went also through their pegasos "marketing material". Also that is the most up-to-date that I have ever seen (I hope it's not a too big compliment). At leats things like "133 MHz processor slot, 600 MHz PowerPC G3 750 CXe " Are more fair than just market inexistant DualG4 peg1 in every turn like Vesalia and pegasosppc does.

Things like "systems starting with one CPU (at entry level) to multiple PPC G4 based cluster computers can be built using the same hardware" and "The excellent scaleability of this combination allows the user to execute his applications transparently on one cpu or a cluster of several cpu's." are annoying, though. And they rise the question of "when?".

**************

And in the end ... Amiga companies plans change so rapidly that the plan of today is not up to date tomorrow ... an to make it more weird ... they can be up-to date again on the day after tomorrow.
(no on board audio for A1 -> on board audio , "G4 Pegasos exists today" -> no G4 for pegasos -> G4 for pegasos in summer .... what next? Dual G4's for both? PPC970? ;-D )

btw. is the optional riser card available for pegasos? is it still planned to be sold beyond feature lists? (I know that at least some prototypes exists)

btw2. Is there anywhere a list of drivers that already exist for those hand full of pegasos ports (like for IRDA, IEEE1394)?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 84 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 08-May-2003 18:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (catohagen):
Well, the API is extremely well documented. The correct term would be "reimplement", though.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 85 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 08-May-2003 18:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (mahen):
> Who is Mr. Sheen?

http://amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8330&forum=8#113763
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 86 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 08-May-2003 19:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (DaveP):
> So you think an Amiga-a-like OS will gain interest outside the community
over and above Linux ( which is an OS Ben despite what you and others seem
to try and make out for your own reasons - and a far superior one to AmigaOS in 99 respects out of 100 )?

> Dream on!

Why not?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 87 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DDJ on 08-May-2003 19:32 GMT
Wow, by this news we can see that amiga comunity is becoming A LinuxPPC comunity :), or we have another OS to run on this Teron-Linux-Ones ?

and please don´t say UAE becouse nobody needs a PPCBoard to run UAE.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 88 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 08-May-2003 20:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (priest):
> It's pretty accurate. But things like "Sound, modem & gameport I/O via the
> AMR header" are stupid mistakes and might decrease sales.

KDH announced (only a few weeks ago) the availability of OS4 for CSPPC *and* BlizzardPPC from the 1st of May. So much for their accuracy.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 89 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 08-May-2003 20:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (mahen):
"anyway, they can just wait as pegasos'es are currently sold out."

/me Looks up at pegasos ads

They must be selling a dream rather then real units ;)

/me goes back to overclocking one of his psion s3a's
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 90 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 08-May-2003 20:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (priest):
"What does "sales commitments" mean in a few more words?"

Pre-orders?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 91 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 08-May-2003 20:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (corpse):
OK, maybe a few ones left at resellers'...
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 92 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by franco on 08-May-2003 21:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Anon):
anon:

No, 300 percent _more_ are 8 AmigaOne and 2 Pegasos.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 93 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 08-May-2003 22:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (mahen):
>If you prefer, MOS is currently like a new enhanced amigaOS, and will be even
>more afterwards. (like OS3 -> OS4 -> OS5)
It's more like Win3.11 -> OS/2 Warp than Win3.11 -> Win9x/WinNT -> Win2k/XP ...
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 94 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 08-May-2003 23:41 GMT
Marketing hype.....

The current computer user base is a bit larger today then it was in say 1975.

being realistic about it the A1 and Pegaos together sales are hardly significant.

Seriously the smartest thing that can be done for the PPC growth is that of having a bridge OS.... can be experienced on the x86 architecture and PPC. Where the much larger installed base is x86 but has little in the of a bridge in software use.

OS4 is not to run on 68K or X86..... no bridge and Amithlon don't count as it's just a 68K emulator.

Morphos don't count either cause it's strickly PPC...

If AROS gets PPC biased, then it too will not be that bridge...

Without a decent bridge..... sales are limited....
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 95 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-May-2003 00:22 GMT
AmigaOne outsold Pegasos... is that a surprise?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 96 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Iggy Drougge on 09-May-2003 04:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Anonymous):
Quite surprising, yes. If you wanted a Linux computer, why not buy the Pegasos?
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 97 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-May-2003 04:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Fabio Alemagna):
Its called paraphrasing. Don't worry you'll wake up eventually.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 98 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-May-2003 05:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Darth_X):
No reason not to dream, but acknowledge it as a dream and stop dismissing
Linux out of ignorance for that is all it could be.

Linux has several mature and useful distributions covering many platforms
cards and even has industry support and industry applications on it as well as
a thriving developer community.

To think that a 600user community with an OS which is lower in power, flexibility, appeal, visual flair and has none of the fave widgets of the day on it that Linux distributions have is to live in a dream world.

Even the Linux "anti Intel, anti Apple" freaks who might go for a PPC board with
Linux on it way outnumber those who could possibly be interested in MorphOS for more than 30 seconds.

No, in the short to medium term where it counts, MorphOS has an incredibly long road to tread with no brand name recognition - at least as long as Linux and there is no demand for it ( unlike a free Unix a like operating system without RMS' direct involement which we were crying out for ) nor does it have a large pre-installed user base. Because Linux ran on the majority of PCs out there ( even in text mode ) it was instantly accessable to academics and students and bored corporate employees ( ;-) ).

The Pegasos Dongle for MorphOS is too high a price to pay for "MorphOS". This David and Goliath shit that some of you persist in forgetting the realities of is just a dream.

MorphOS has even less market appeal than AmigaOS - yes - because it has no brand name recognition. Lots of people recognise the name Amiga outside of this muddy little pond - how many people recognise MorphOS? Despite some peoples attempts to destroy the Amiga brand name outside of the community to level the playing field....

When OS4 gets release incomers are going to say "why should I pick this MorphOS thing that just does the AmigaOS on PPC thing like OS4 does but without the brand name or these features x/y/z".

The main reason we see such political shenannigans going on ( and in the court now ) is because, no matter how many troll posts you start on ANN, is because
whilst Amiga Inc exists and the Amiga brand exists seperate of Genesi its a serious threat to takeup of MorphOS on the merits of its AmigaOS 3.x compatibility or look and feel inside and outside of the community. In order to stand up on its own MorphOS HAS to develop something extra before it gets taken seriously. Sure it might get a favourable review on OSNEWS or somewhere but it will be reviewed and forgotten by the masses.
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 99 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Iggy Drougge on 09-May-2003 05:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (DaveP):
Actually, I'm checking OSNews every day just out of fear. How harsh will Eugenia's review be? I'm shaking...
AmigaOne outselling Pegasos at KDH? : Comment 100 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 09-May-2003 06:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Iggy Drougge):
I doubt it will be a harsh review. It will probably conclude "not for the masses" and might say something negative about the "community baggage" that you buy into
but other than that I wouldn't speculate further.
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