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[News] Bill Buck clarifies MAI situationANN.lu
Posted on 16-May-2003 08:58 GMT by ek246 comments
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Bill Buck offers on Moobunny his account on the events that lead to the creation of April, April2 and Genesi's decision to move ahead with Marvell instead of MAI.

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Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 151 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2003 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
..pity really as WarpOS is so much better than PowerUP ever was

..and the hardware (BPPC or CSPPC) is fine!! best classic Amiga
expansion card ever!
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 152 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 16-May-2003 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (Neko):
@Neko

I was asking a genuine question, since I really didn't remember the chronological
order of things and that Alan was the one to first talk officially about a bug.
Thanks for the laydown.

Who knows, next time you could even try it without your usual arrogance.
.
SlimJim
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 153 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 16-May-2003 14:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 152 (SlimJim):
Slimjim,

Sorry for the OT, but I think you make an interesting point about the arrogance of some people, not just Matt Sealey, but many others within the community! I find it amazing that some people can be SO RUDE, and refuse to even consider anybody else's point of view!

Can't we all just treat each other with a bit more respect? :-)

Thanks, Ian
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 154 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 16-May-2003 14:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Leki):
Hahaha...

> didn't bill "fud boy" buck also claim eyetech's board was broken and couldn`t be fixed unlike there board?

You're so shallow... this must be the most obvious FUD attempt I have seen in a long time :)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 155 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 16-May-2003 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (Leki):
>>please dont compare my working G4 AmigaOne against a none existing pegasos II

Earth to Leki, calling Leki, please come in Leki.

Earth here.

I made no such comparison. As a matter of fact, about the time the peg II was announced I made it very clear I wasn't happy with Genesi anymore,
for failing to keep product on the market, and for failing to release
specs on the peg II like whether it would have AGP support or not...later
they seemed to suggest it would have some kind of AGP hack grafted onto it.

it doesn't make the AmigaONE project any different though, it's still overpriced, slow, and a comedy of errors.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 156 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-May-2003 15:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (Neko):
Neko: "Now, forgive me for assuming you're all stupid,"

We're used to that. Same old Neko.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 157 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 16-May-2003 15:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Leki):
> sure...like i`m going to believe Bill "G3 is faster than G4" Buck after the
> other FUD and half truths he spreads all the time.

If you don't want to believe him, believe Alan Redhouse (Eyetech):

"Of course, it's all plain sailing from then on, isn't it? No, you just get going and something else comes and kicks you in the teeth. The Articia chipset - the northbridge - had always been designed for set-top boxes and embedded systems - things which aren't really going to move huge amounts of data around. We discovered (I have to say independently the boys from %@!#%& discovered), that when you start moving large amounts of data between different PCI busmasters using that chipset, it hangs." -- Alan Redhouse
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 158 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 16-May-2003 16:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 154 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
>You're so shallow... this must be the most obvious FUD attempt I have seen in a >long time :)

No its not....to the best of my memory he said it....not in those exact words though....but im not gonna spend an hour of my time finding the post on ann just to prove it as i got better things to do.

Even Neko (who i would say is more on the MOS side of things) confirms he did, "Buck did say that the AmigaONE was unfixable." in post 148

i dont go round making up total bullshit like some people.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 159 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 16-May-2003 16:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 155 (MarkTime):
it sure looked like you did to me.....you said:

"just a reminder, if you paid $800 dollars for a G4/800 then I hope
it works as good as 2 or 3 boards, but without
ddr ram support, agp at only 2x...it doesn't. it doesn't. period.
it doesn't."

which to me looks like your trying to compare to the pegasos II as thats ment to have DDR ram and maybe faster AGP when (if?) it comes out in sept. so dont say my AmigaOne does perform period....you dont know shit and you dont even have one so keep your troll comments like that to yourself.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 160 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 16-May-2003 16:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 159 (Leki):
of course that should have been...

"so dont say my AmigaOne does *NOT* perform period"
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 161 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 16-May-2003 16:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 157 (Fabio Alemagna):
yep i trust Alan a million more times that bill "Forget the G4, we cannot even get the G3 working right" buck.

how come you put the "%@!#%&" ? ..i take it should have been bplan or genesi there ......and i bet that was due to the VIA bugs.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 162 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-May-2003 16:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (Leki):
Yeah, all these embedded systems, all using this buggy VIA chip...
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 163 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 16-May-2003 16:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (Leki):
> yep i trust Alan a million more times that bill "Forget the G4, we cannot even
> get the G3 working right" buck.

So, if you trust him, you believe that the Articia chipset is at fault, and nothing else? Alan himself stated it (after having denied it before, of course).

> how come you put the "%@!#%&" ?

I've not put it, I've just copied'n'pasted from his speach transcript. Look here: http://amiverse.homeip.net/article.php?sid=51

> ..i take it should have been bplan or genesi there

I bet so too.

> ......and i bet that was due to the VIA bugs.

Sorry? Alan said that *bplan/genesi* found the bug that the ARTICIA has.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 164 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by logain on 16-May-2003 16:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (Leki):
To my knowledge, Bill Buck offered Eyetech to license the April-fix
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 165 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Gelb on 16-May-2003 17:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 149 (Christoph Gutjahr):
In the context of Articia, what could "mem trashing" actually mean?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 166 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 17:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (Leki):
So, you say that Redhouse is a liar, right?
READ WHAT HE SAID!
"that when you start moving large amounts of data between different PCI busmasters using that chipset, it hangs."

That's the DMA bug, not an IDE thingie. The IDE thingie is a joint problem
from that and the VIA bugs. On Pegasos boards without the april, you can
reproduce that with a TV Card. Same about old AmigaOnes and the Teron.
On new AmigaOnes this specific bug seems to be fixed. But there are others
as well...
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 167 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 16-May-2003 17:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 159 (Leki):
First Leki, I don't ask for your permission to speak, so give that up now...its only wasting your time.

2ndly, whatever it may have appeared to you...I was suggesting that 2xAGP, and the old memory architecture is way old.

I made no mention of the spec's of a peg II, nor did I have them in mind.
I would point you to current spec's/pricing in the PC world, or even the macintosh world.

2ndly, I stated from the very first post, that I wasn't saying your dang board didn't work....the whole premise of my entire argument was that we could discuss the board even after dismissing any claims to its buggy nature, as it is slow 'as spec'd'

You aren't following me...you won't be able to follow me...well given that, maybe you'll be happy with your board, but you would have been happy with a shiny rubber ball, and assuming you didn't pay $800 for it...you could have saved $800

pthfthlththettt!!!!
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 168 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Christoph Gutjahr on 16-May-2003 17:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 165 (Gelb):
@Gelb:

>> In the context of Articia, what could "mem trashing"
>> actually mean?

Thanks for the conversation, but you're not really helpful.

The question still stands: What bugs, how to reproduce them?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 169 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 16-May-2003 17:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
No offense Alkis but there are tons of bugs in the Cyberstorm PPC hardware designed by Gerald Carda and the BlizzardPPC is even worse.

There are in fact well documented bugs in all Phase 5 accelerators.

I don't deny Gerald Carda is a good engineer but he certainly isn't perfect.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 170 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-May-2003 17:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 169 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>There are in fact well documented bugs in all Phase 5 accelerators.

Well "documented". Interesting.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 171 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 17:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 169 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
He's not perfect but he can identify where a bug is, VERY well.

Yes, the BPPC and CSPPC have bugs but... "well documented"? I though you said
that you have no documentation about these boards...
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 172 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 16-May-2003 18:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 170 (David Scheibler):
Indeed. 8D
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 173 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2003 19:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 171 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> I though you said that you have no documentation about these boards...

Having documentation of the bugs doesn't help you control the boards the right way does it?
Why are you always this nitpicking??? Besides Reading the msg twice, you can easily interpret that the documentation is only refering to the CSPPC and the BPPC was worse.
Never mind, why cannot you read a simple msg without acting like a fool on it imediately?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 174 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2003 19:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 170 (David Scheibler):
Hehe, FUD master hermans is at it again. Seems he took some days off to pollute ann.lu again with his funny remarks. Could get an entertaining weekend after all those days without him.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 175 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 16-May-2003 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 166 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"VIA bugs"

Just remember that the bugs in VIA's chips cover almost all of the functions that type of chip performs e.g their southbridges often have data corruption problems with the buses and interfaces they're meant to supply like those in the 686B and the Apollo range of northbridges have memory performance that can be judged as weak at best.

VIA produce chips and worry about bugs by releasing driver packs later, their quality control is near that of AOL's ;)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 176 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 16-May-2003 19:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 169 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Hello,

" I don't deny Gerald Carda is a good engineer but he certainly isn't perfect"

Don't you know that nobody is perfect? (not even you :) I hope it's not a shock for you ;) )

Regards
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 177 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 20:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 173 (Anonymous):
How would they have documentation about bugs when they don't have, actual,
documentation about the boards themselves (that's what he claimed earlier)?
If you don't know everything about a board, you don't know what's a bug and
what is not.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 178 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 21:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 175 (corpse):
The bugs are reproducable even in systems not using VIA SBs at all, like
embedded systems. So, the prob is CERTAINLY not the VIA bugs...
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 179 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2003 22:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 177 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Alkis, you are getting more and more incredible.

Eg. it is well documented that doing 2 chip ram accesses without an ISYNC in between can lock up the system. Now, does that mean that I have the full documentation of the board? Probably not. And since I don't have documentation of this 'small' problem, does it make it a non bug and a feature instead? Don't thinks so.
By developing for a system, you slowly get to know its bugs and limitations and if you don't document them on the way, you are not very smart. So, I can still say I have a list of documented problems without having the actual original documentation of the system. Of course the original documentation would perhaps list these problems as well and contain different explanations. But that doesn't change that fact that I have been able to document the problems I have seen.

See? I can still have documentation of bugs without having the real original documentation. And to be honest, I don't care if the original documentation lists non working parts as features, I would still call it a bug.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 180 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 16-May-2003 23:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 178 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"The bugs are reproducable even in systems not using VIA SBs at all, like
embedded systems. So, the prob is CERTAINLY not the VIA bugs..."

People would be more prepared to believe that the MAI chipset is faultly if people actaully backed up their strong words with proof, as it stands we have a bunch of guys that have reason to bitch MAI shouting their mouths off about bugs. They don't really want to give away what the bugs are or back them up, but the information that does leak out points to something else which is maybe why no one seems to be prepared to back up their bitching?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 181 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 16-May-2003 23:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 151 (Anonymous):
" ..and the hardware (BPPC or CSPPC) is fine!! best classic Amiga
expansion card ever! "

Theres a saying that goes something like this : "Those that can remember the 60's weren't there" , I think you'll get the idea.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 182 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-May-2003 02:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (David Scheibler):
>Please post some memory speed benchmark results. Thanks. Well, lmbench says 230MB/s read and about 260MB/s LMBench write performance on an 800MHzAmigaOne system (I believe it has been G4 without the latest "3%" L3 cache performanceenhancements ;-D running at 133MHz) - nowhere near the 500-1000MB/s a certain lawyerwants us to believe...
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 183 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Adam on 17-May-2003 06:08 GMT
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/boxer/

Still good to read it again.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 184 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 17-May-2003 06:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Wow, you've obviously got NO clue.

I haven't heard ANYONE with an XE have problems with DMA. The only problem we've had so far is that the G4 needed more cooling and Kingston managed to change SDRAM supplier from Infineon to Toshiba without telling anyone, and Toshiba doesn't work with the ArticiaS. But Kingston has been very helpful here, in ways I am not sure I can tell you about. We'll see if there won't be some news later.

Anyway, the way _I_ see it (and I think I have a certain insight into the problem since I've actually GOT an AmigaOne and have followed the process for excactly one year this week (I got mine mid-May last year, and set up the developer list some time before that)) is:

The original ArticiaS did indeed have a problem, which I'm not entirely certain who fixed. I'm not entirely certain why it matters who fixed it either, but the fact is that my AmigaOne G3-SE will completely lock up in certain circumstances when DMA is being used. The AmigaOne G3-SE also had another bug, the interrupt lines (request/grant) from the ArticiaS to the ethernet controller had been swapped, easily fixed by cutting tracks and adding wires. For all I know this could have been a bug in the Articia, but it doesn't sound likely. I think it's just an honest mistake in the PCB design. Even so, I've decided to keep my AmigaOneG3-SE as it is, for sentimental reasons. I got a good price on it back then, because I agreed to chip in with some support and hosting the mailing lists we needed. I'll be buying an XE-G4 later, at full price :-). Just gotta save up some cash first. Anyway, MAI have updated the ArticiaS so it doesn't lock up under DMA. But the XE-G4 still crashed way too much. Why is that? Well, as it turns out, the G4 is VERY sensitive to heat, and let's just say the error has been found and fixed. Sticky tape should be sticky. If it isn't, there's a good chance you haven't used it properly. Add to that the fact about Kingston and Toshiba, and you have at least 50 more G4-XE owners suddenly frolicking in the fields and whatnot.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 185 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 17-May-2003 07:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"AmigaONE owners, elsewhere, claimed otherwise."

Where? It's not in the latest install guide from Eyetech. At least not where either I or a text search for ide or dma can find it. It's been suggested once or twice for older kernels so we could see if it helped, but I don't think it has done a bit of difference in ANY situation.

There is no software fix for the Articia S that I know of, either. There's a software fix for the VIA686B, but that's just standard in the kernel. I can't see how you can conclude that the ArticiaS must be buggy because Linux patches it? And if you really want to know what our Linux version patches, go to amigaone-linux.sourceforge.net and download the frelling thing for yourself...

99% of the fixes is in arch/ppc/kernel/amigaone_*, there's one additional fix in an include file to get the floppy driver to understand it doesn't have a 2.88MB floppy drive, but that's just peanuts. Go ahead, known yourself out. It's probably almost 50kB of source code, so I bet you'll be reading for at least an hour. Yep, it's _that_ complex. And if you didn't see the sarcasm there, I don't believe you on the 150 IQ ;-)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 186 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-May-2003 07:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Sorry, but I don't believe you. If the fix is to "ifup eth0 && ifdown eth0" it's not really a hardware problem. This procedure doesn't reinitialize the hardware.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 187 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 07:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 179 (Anonymous):
Are you sure that this is an HW prob? Does the same thing happen under PowerUP
as well as WUP?
Even then, it doesn't prove anything, if you don't have the FULL docs to setup
the hardware... Remember that the WOS authors never managed to use the interrupt
controller on the BPPC and CSPPC cards, they used the 68k instead.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 188 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 07:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 186 (Olegil):
I'm only repeating what I have recently read about the AmigaONE, from the user
side. I never claimed to know for certain, that's why I use the tone I use.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 189 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-May-2003 07:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 188 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Hmm, it seems ANN is behaving odd today.

Anway, I just tried to post something about your tone ;-)

the general idea was that the "I've got an IQ of 150 and I can't believe how naive you are" tone doesn't to me signalize that you don't know first hand. You're just as naive in thinking that any problem any claimed user (how do you know this isn't a bad joke? have you seen other users report the same problem? I haven't...) experiences must be down to bad design of the chipset. It could be a bad chip, it could be a bad user, it could be a bad set of software. You don't know, I don't know, so why are you drawing conclusions? Too high IQ or something? (ok, that was a cheap shot, but you really need to lighten up ;-) )
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 190 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by AmiTroll on 17-May-2003 07:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 155 (MarkTime):
>I made no such comparison. As a matter of fact, about the time the peg II was announced I made it very clear I wasn't happy with Genesi anymore,
>for failing to keep product on the market, and for failing to release
>specs on the peg II like whether it would have AGP support or not...later
>they seemed to suggest it would have some kind of AGP hack grafted onto it.

I'm glad someone finally came out and said it. It feels like your banging your head against a tree trying to tell people that Genesi's plan isn't so rosey either.

buggy g3, no g4, come to paris, sign our NDA to buy a peg.. err now it's a betaboard.., no os4, no g4, code for our stb now. No thanks!

I'm sure some will still call me a troll, fud monger, whatever, just because i didn't bash some other company with this comment. Oh well. :)

GRUNT
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 191 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 07:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 189 (Olegil):
LOL! The IQ thingie was a reply to DaveP, posting his IQ! I just replied doing
the same! ROTFL! It started of when I said that nobody needs Einstein's IQ to
interprete MAI's actions. DaveP posted his IQ, lower than Einstein's, and I
posted mine, also MUCH lower than Einstein's:) That was mainly a joke, nothing
more.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 192 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 07:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 190 (AmiTroll):
I didn't ever go to Paris, nor did I sign an NDA to buy a Pegasos...
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 193 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 08:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 191 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Also, about the user stuff, as I said, I just rephrased what I have read multible
times, that you need to disable dma during installation. If that's not the case
anymore, that's VERY good:)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 194 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by AmiTroll on 17-May-2003 08:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 192 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>I didn't ever go to Paris, nor did I sign an NDA to buy a Pegasos...

Adam did. (Re: Comment #4)

And what have you got? A g3, no developer docs (as i recall, nda was the only way to get them, well screw that), a beta of mos, no os4, and a discontinued line of machines. Hey, i love quark, (it would be cool if i was in the market for yet ANOTHER fringe os) but the rest of this thing just sucks.

GRUNT
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 195 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Druideck on 17-May-2003 08:20 GMT
I have used Amigas for years and I am very pleased with the way
Morphos/Pegasos works. It feels very much like my Amigas, but smoother/faster.
I am not interested in an AmigaOne that works well with Linux. :/
I would welcome OS4, if it ever materializes though.

Druideck
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 196 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 17-May-2003 08:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (Leki):
Well, I am capable of reading things in concept too.

What you do, is asking a somewhat rethorical yes/no question of which the answer, allthough true and real enough, is still out of context.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 197 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 17-May-2003 08:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 196 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
concept -> context, sorry.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 198 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-May-2003 08:58 GMT
What the fuck is wrong here? When I try to reply to Alkis I get a blank page and ANN doesn't get my comment!!!

Fuck it all, I'm going out! :-)

Alkis:
just don't try to draw any more conclusions from wild, unverified accusations. you've come across as a complete nitwit in this discussion with claims that the install guide contains something it doesn't do etc. I can't find any mention of ide=nodma in the install guide I'm serving to the a1g3dev list members (which at the moment is more of a user list than a developer list, unfortunately). If you don't know, don't act like you do. You know? ;-)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 199 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 194 (AmiTroll):
What did I get? A Pegasos, a perfectly working G3, a perfectly usuable version
of MorphOS, all MorphOS developer docs, a full geek gadgets ppc installation,
a T-Shirt ( ;-) ), a back plate and some games, for half the Pegasos price.
OS4 is not available anywhere yet.
Oh, I also got the ability to upgrade to G4 or to a Pegasos2 for 200E, I chose
the second one.
Ah, almost forgot, I got many registered programs, like Voyager.
BTW, if you think that MorphOS sucks... You really haven't ever used it...
If it sucks, OS4 will suck too, they are essentially almost the same thing.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 200 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 198 (Olegil):
But I never talked about any installation guide! Others did.
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