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[News] Bill Buck clarifies MAI situationANN.lu
Posted on 16-May-2003 08:58 GMT by ek246 comments
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Bill Buck offers on Moobunny his account on the events that lead to the creation of April, April2 and Genesi's decision to move ahead with Marvell instead of MAI.

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Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 201 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 17-May-2003 09:17 GMT
It will be interesting to see what the Pegasos II will deliver. It will almost certainly use the G4(e), perhaps one option at 800mhz.

I would still prefer to run MorphOS on my TiPB however.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 202 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by AmiTroll on 17-May-2003 09:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 199 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>What did I get? A Pegasos, a perfectly working G3,

Thats nothing to shout about. ;) I clearly remember alot of hype about the G4 when the A1 was only a G3 machine. But then the Peg was cancelled.

>a perfectly usuable version of MorphOS,

A perfectly beta version.

>all MorphOS developer docs, a full geek gadgets ppc installation,

Good and good.

>a T-Shirt ( ;-) ),

Who cares ;), your trolling alkis. :) Were talking about the peg remember? If you want to have a go, i'll start a thread about Ainc just for you, praise them, say how nice and wonderfull they are, and you can come in and trash them to your hearts content. But just for you, ok? :)

>a back plate and some games, for half the Pegasos price.

You better have gotten one, i got more on the amiga i have now( neener neener :) ), and i didnt have to buy a pegasos at any price. ( again, neener neener :) )

>OS4 is not available anywhere yet.

Thats because Hyperion wont release a beta of Amiga OS.

>Oh, I also got the ability to upgrade to G4 or to a Pegasos2 for 200E, I chose the second one.

I'd take the second one too. And only because we know the G4 on the peg wont 'work as advertised'. We do know from A1 owners with G4's that there are no problems though.

>Ah, almost forgot, I got many registered programs, like Voyager.

Funny thing, so do i.

>BTW, if you think that MorphOS sucks... You really haven't ever used it...
>If it sucks, OS4 will suck too, they are essentially almost the same thing.

No compatability problems? Download anything from Aminet and run it? That's not what i've heard from other peg users. I'm sure there is one sitting in a shop someplace that i can have a look at, but to be perfectly honest with you Alkis, i dont want to fly 10,000 miles to go look at it. :) I'm sure it's perfectly normal for you. You have a peg and it's just so cool. But for us normal people we find a discontinued mobo and beta OS a risky venture. I'm sure it's alot of fun mind you, in that respect i AM jealous, but i'm not forking out 100's for betas. And even if i did want to, how many are left?

GRUNT
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 203 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 09:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 202 (AmiTroll):
You better have gotten one, i got more on the amiga i have now( neener neener :) ), and i didnt have to buy a pegasos at any price. ( again, neener neener :) )
--

Ehm... I've got all the games Hyperion ever released on the Amiga, and they work
fine:) Not to forget WipeOut, the RTG-able clickboom games, etc... :)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 204 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Roccati on 17-May-2003 09:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Christoph Gutjahr):
> I second Don's Request: Why don't Genesi/Bplan finally post a description of
> "the bugs" they're talking about? How does one reproduce them?
> The most precise description I can remember was "they're easy to reproduce"
> (Laire on Amiga-news.de a few weeks ago). Go figure.

The bug is easy to reproduce if you're programming the hardware directly. Under the control of an operating system, everything becomes quite difficult. Here is how it works:

* Start a DMA from any PCI device to the main memory
* Start a DMA from a bus master PCI device to another PCI device

as soon as the two DMA operation need arbitration for bus access, there's a chance that both operations will be granted access to the bus at the same time. This, obviously, causes data corruption.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 205 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 202 (AmiTroll):
Thats because Hyperion wont release a beta of Amiga OS.
--

If you think that the first Amiga OS4 versions to be released will be bug free,
you're totally off mark... Do you know how much it takes to make a bug free OS?
Even their games, needed after release updates to fix bugs (yes, I beta-tested
their games).

I'd take the second one too. And only because we know the G4 on the peg wont 'work as advertised'. We do know from A1 owners with G4's that there are no problems though.
--

Ehm, G4 on Peg will work as on the AOne... That is, NOT as advertised...
Compare the SYSTEM speed with a 60x bus G4 mac...

Funny thing, so do i.
--

You're trolling here, I got them for free with the Pegasos.

No compatability problems? Download anything from Aminet and run it? That's not what i've heard from other peg users. I'm sure there is one sitting in a shop someplace that i can have a look at, but to be perfectly honest with you Alkis, i dont want to fly 10,000 miles to go look at it.
--

Anything that doesn't need the chipset and is clean, works. Guarrantied.
Tried *MANY* Aminet stuff and even more from the AFCDs... The same thing
that will work on OS4, work on MOS. The rest throw some nice hits.

:) I'm sure it's perfectly normal for you. You have a peg and it's just so cool. But for us normal people we find a discontinued mobo and beta OS a risky venture.
--

There are MANY normal users that bought a Pegasos (even 3 out of 5 in Greece)
and have no problem with it. You can do whatever you did with your Amiga.
Myself, even bought a G-Rex, to help Hyperion debug the alpha Voodoo3 Warp3D
driver.

I'm sure it's alot of fun mind you, in that respect i AM jealous, but i'm not forking out 100's for betas. And even if i did want to, how many are left?
--

I'm not talking about fun, I'm talking seriously... I've got a system that replaced
my "non-beta" 1200/PPC/G-Rex perfectly. Everything I could do there, works
on the Peg. Also, the prefs and other stuff are much more integrated in the
desktop, which is VERY cool.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 206 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-May-2003 10:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 205 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"Thats because Hyperion wont release a beta of Amiga OS.
--

If you think that the first Amiga OS4 versions to be released will be bug free,
you're totally off mark... Do you know how much it takes to make a bug free OS?
Even their games, needed after release updates to fix bugs (yes, I beta-tested
their games). "

Not being bug free is a LOT different than releasing a beta. I have a lot of respect for Hyperion waiting with the public versions until things stops crashing. While MOS might be perfectly useable now, it wasn't on the first public showings. Why was there even an attempt at show the product if it's known not to work? Why install software on the demo computers if you KNOW it's going to crash? Sounds pretty silly to me. The only application I've seen running on a Pegasos (except for Gunnes machine back when I stayed at his place for the AmigaOne fall event) is that game where you shoot birds. Ok, so it looks great, but it's not really all that impressive. If it's so easy to run all the big games and applications on it, why isn't that being shown?


"I'd take the second one too. And only because we know the G4 on the peg wont 'work as advertised'. We do know from A1 owners with G4's that there are no problems though.
--

Ehm, G4 on Peg will work as on the AOne... That is, NOT as advertised...
Compare the SYSTEM speed with a 60x bus G4 mac..."

Depends on how you advertise it, doesn't it? The only advertising I saw said you could buy it and it would work. Haven't seen any estimated performance numbers or anything, so I think it's just another cheap shot at the competition.

Care to show me a comparison between 800MHz G4 Mac and AmigaOne machines? I haven't seen any yet. Or is this another of those "I don't know, I'm just pointing it out" thingies you're not all that good at? Sounds to me like you know something I don't, so please tell me?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 207 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 206 (Olegil):
That's not a shot at the competition, as it will NOT be faster on the Pegasos.
I'll post some benchmarks a bit later.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 208 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 17-May-2003 10:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 206 (Olegil):
>Why was there even an attempt at show the product if it's known not to work?

Maybe for the same reason someone showed a non working AmigaOne XE board at
some show or someone showed an AmigaOne board that couldn't do more than
reaching PPCBoot.

Wasn't one of those someone you?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 209 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 10:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 206 (Olegil):
being bug free is a LOT different than releasing a beta. I have a lot of respect for Hyperion waiting with the public versions until things stops crashing. While MOS might be perfectly useable now, it wasn't on the first public showings.
--

Ole, they always showed MOS, beta or not at shows, no matter how stable or
unstable it was. The versions, BetaTester 1&2 users got were betas.
The ones users, get are only stable ones. The betas are being tested by the
BetaTester1 team and are only released to normal users when they are perfectly
stable, OS wise. MOS 1.3 is stable. MOS 1.4 is being beta tested internally
right now and it's not out for users.

Why was there even an attempt at show the product if it's known not to work? Why install software on the demo computers if you KNOW it's going to crash? Sounds pretty silly to me.
--

That was a mistake on their part imho. Nowadays, they only show PPC native stuff
that are guarrantied 250% not to crash.

The only application I've seen running on a Pegasos (except for Gunnes machine back when I stayed at his place for the AmigaOne fall event) is that game where you shoot birds. Ok, so it looks great, but it's not really all that impressive. If it's so easy to run all the big games and applications on it, why isn't that being shown?
--

Dunno, why they don't show them but it would probably be low to advertise your
system with the games of a competiting company. I just installed Hyperion's games
and with the exception of Shogo, they work straight away.
They did show application like ImageFX in the past. In a specific show, they
forgot to install some libs and it didn't work.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 210 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-May-2003 10:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 200 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Ah, I was referencing to comment 112.

I notice now that you didn't say it was the install guide, just that it was "from Eyetech". One thing sure is funny, though. You keep saying Eyetech has no engineers, but you still keep attributing all the Linux kernel work to Eyetech. Which is it, they have engineers, or not?

I have one quote from Thomas Frieden which I'm not sure if I should post here. I have his permission to quote him, but I'm not sure it would add any useful input. Let me just say that he has indeed pointed out some rather funny things about Linux and OS4 on the AmigaOne. You see, there has NEVER been a big-endian machine with a VIA southbridge running Linux before the Teron boards.

Ah, what the hell:

"What most people forget as a possible lock-up reason is shitty software. Linux PPC was up to now a PowerMac domain, and the PowerMacs have a very "limited" hardware (i.e. all have the same north/southbridges, similar controllers, etc). Nobody ever ran the VIA IDE driver on a big endian machine before. In fact, I once found an endian-related problem in the VIA code. I wouldn't be surprised if there where more, also in other areas of the system."

I'll just add that this happens more often than people think when it comes to Linux. Hardly any PCI card driver will compile out of the box on a big-endian machine, because "who would want to use than it a Mac?". Especially graphics card drivers have been problematic.

And some more about Articia not always being to blame:
"So it's always easy to blame everything on the hardware. In all my test with ExecSG on the A1, I never had any problems that where not attributed to the software. No undelivered interrupts, no memory failures. And as I know and control the complete software, I can say that the software was to blame in all crash/lockup cases."

I realise now that I had forgotten to ask permission about the first quote, but since he posted to a list where me and Alan decides what should "leak" out, I'm posting it. Don't take it out of context, please. He does NOT say ExecSG is bug-infested, just that whenever he's seen a lock-up, it's been his own fault.
As an engineer I know what he's talking about, I've seen my own software lock up way too often myself ;-)

So the conclusion I draw is:
We had severe problems with the previous version of Articia, but they seem to be fixed. If none can see the bug, maybe it's not there. Or maybe it is and it's just that everyone except Carda is an idiot. All I'm asking is that I should be left to choose which of those theories I want to believe in. Without being called naive (we're after all talking about calling an idiot naive, which I would think would be unneccessary insults...).
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 211 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by AmiTroll on 17-May-2003 10:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 205 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>If you think that the first Amiga OS4 versions to be released will be bug free,
>you're totally off mark... Do you know how much it takes to make a bug free OS?
>Even their games, needed after release updates to fix bugs (yes, I beta-tested
>their games).

I expect boing bags, or some such. Every version of Amiga OS has had some sort of bug. Setpatch, boing bag, etc. The difference is the level of bugs between a release and a beta.

>Ehm, G4 on Peg will work as on the AOne... That is, NOT as advertised...

Are you sure? So far i havent heard a thing from AOne owners about any problems like this. They can't all be shutting up. (hell, i'd shout the loudest if i had one)

>You're trolling here, I got them for free with the Pegasos.

Perhaps not, we both know there will be a bundle with OS4. Hyperion will toss in some of thier games, ibrowse, who knows what else. I think it's enough to say, software comes with both.

>I'm not talking about fun, I'm talking seriously... I've got a system that replaced
>my "non-beta" 1200/PPC/G-Rex perfectly. Everything I could do there, works
>on the Peg.

I think the same can be said about OS4.

>Also, the prefs and other stuff are much more integrated in the
>desktop, which is VERY cool.

I can't talk about prefs and the system of OS4 or MOS, only point at a number of announcements and feature lists. It does look like OS4 is getting alot of extensions. Application library, memory protection, gfx card drivers, etc. MOS's sandbox won't be able to keep up imho, or at least always be playing catch up.

And thats another thing i find fault with. Quark is a good kernal, (no matter what some say about RS, true or not) i can't understand the move to hide half the functionality behind an Amiga like sandbox when they could have a full blown os now that offers more. I see it as a waste of potential driven by some marketing scheme to sell to a small community like Amiga.

GRUNT
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 212 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 10:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 210 (Olegil):
I'm not calling anyone an idiot, but I think that people probably search in the
wrong place about the bugs.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 213 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-May-2003 10:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 208 (David Scheibler):
Hmm, I was showing PPCBoot, and you're blaming me for not showing anything else? I had a machine running Linux under Softex, PPCBoot had been ported to a release version 3 days earlier, we hadn't started porting Linux at ALL yet. Not a single line of code. So I showed Linux running stable on one machine and PPCBoot running all kinds of fun things (spinning ATI logos and whatnots ;-) ) on the other. The XE was shown to boot my copy of Debian on the same show. I kid you not, the XE booted on first attempt (of course, once I tried to copy Debian to the other disk I got a hard lock because the board had the bad Articia, but so does my own SE with the same Articia from time to time as well. XE users do not have this problem).

How does this compare to flying in 20 machines running MOS with crashing software?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 214 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-May-2003 10:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 209 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Hey, as long as we agree that MOS should not have been shown publically in the state it was. But then you have to agree that OS4 should not be shown publically too soon either ;-)

Doesn't mean there's another year until OS4 is out, just that it hasn't been released yet.

Hmm, today is our celebration of independence from the frelling Danish people back in 1814, and I'm indoor arguing with you? Not worth it :-)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 215 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by AmiTroll on 17-May-2003 10:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 214 (Olegil):
>Hmm, today is our celebration of independence from the frelling Danish people back in 1814, and I'm indoor arguing with you? Not worth it :-)

Mmmm, danish. He has a point. Right, i'm off to the doughnut shop.

GRUNT
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 216 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 17-May-2003 10:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 213 (Olegil):
>PPCBoot had been ported to a release version 3 days earlier, we hadn't started
>porting Linux at ALL yet.

Yeah maybe Genesi should have shown also only SmartFirmware and not MorphOS,
because as everybody knows Linux and a PC style BIOS is what Amiga users really
like ;)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 217 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-May-2003 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 216 (David Scheibler):
My god, you really are stupid. The AmigaOne had gotten a new firmware that fixed a LOT of the earlier problems (and would allow G4 and 750FX processors to work, which Softex didn't support, might I add). It worked, and we didn't show JUST that. We showed the earlier Linux and the new firmware, because we felt that this was indeed a selling point. It didn't crash, it just didn't do much. You're saying PPCBoot was NOT worth showing? How can you decide that? I know several people who have had a big wow from seeing just how much PPCBoot can do, and you're saying we should not show it to anyone because it isn't OS4 or Linux? Gee, who died and made YOU god, eh?

But why am I even bothering to argue with you? You never do anything except complain at itsy bitsy details noone else care about.

Our decision for this show was to show off the AmigaOne as it was then. The developer boards ran Linux, the end user version had a different (and much better firmware) but Linux for it had not been started on. We didn't show a non-working product (coughing up a crashing Linux kernel was debated and deemed a stupid idea), so how is it relevant to the discussion? The next day MOS was crashed hundreds of times by 20 half-hearted visitors. You can't convince me that was smarter.

Hmm, for some reason you never apologised for the "non-functional XE" statement. The fact is, the XE prototype Alan had been showing off at a couple of shows already booted up into Debian on the first attempt. But I guess you're not going to notice me saying this this time either.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 218 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-May-2003 11:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 215 (AmiTroll):
I was supposed to fix my bike today, but I guess I can live with a loose pedal another day. Off to get some ice cream, I guess.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 219 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Golem on 17-May-2003 11:44 GMT
Alan Redhouse responded to Bill Buck's posting:

http://flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/85812.shtml

:-)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 220 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-May-2003 12:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 219 (Golem):
MWHAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

pissing <sic> myself silly !!
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 221 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-May-2003 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 220 (Anonymous):
Meaning...

GOOD ONE ALAN. Well pointed out.

<Grins>
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 222 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-May-2003 12:05 GMT
Bill Buck, So is it MAI's fault that your OS is *Still* in Beta state after 3 years? If MAI hadn't delayed the Pegasos with it's "buggy" chip would MOS be finished by now? Or was it another big bad company causing you problems. C'Mon give me a laugh!!!
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 223 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 12:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 211 (AmiTroll):
Actually, the Friedens themselves said that there's no way to enable full
memory protection and keep compatability. It will break almost everything.
And yes, I know that it will be the same with OS4, I don't have anything
against it and I'll buy it, wether it runs or not on my system.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 224 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-May-2003 12:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 223 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Thats VERY generous of you Alkis (Seriously)

But..<question>

Isn't that like some of us who paid $50 to show our support for the Amiga Platform ?

Your leaving yourself open to attacks from the #@$()* brigade

(ABUSE)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 225 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by undertaker on 17-May-2003 12:31 GMT
@ Hermanns und CO

Irgendwann tritt dich jemand in deinen verfickten Arsch du Penner.
Und das ist kein dummer Scherz du Rechtsverdreher.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 226 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 17-May-2003 12:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 211 (AmiTroll):
"Perhaps not, we both know there will be a bundle with OS4. Hyperion will toss in some of their games, ibrowse, who knows what else. "

A lite version of Audio Evolution.

And of course YAM, DOpus 4, BarsnPipes, TVPaint, etc are free and easy to get.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 227 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-May-2003 12:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 184 (Ole-Egil):
>Well, as it turns out, the G4 is VERY sensitive to heat Then Eyetech installed bad old G4...new G4 can live fine up to 105 degrees.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 228 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 12:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 224 (Anonymous):
I will buy OS4, cause Hyperion have devoted their time and money on it and they
deserve payment for their work, no matter what.
The 50$ were... to pay some people that did nothing.:)

I do not care about recieving any flames for buying OS4, anyone that delivers
should be rewarded, be that Genesi, Hyperion or anyone else.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 229 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 17-May-2003 13:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 227 (Anonymous):
> Then Eyetech installed bad old G4...new G4 can live fine up to 105 degrees.

Well, that's half correct. Each individual transistor will work upto 105C, but a G4 (There's more than one type you know) will not work in 105C ambient. It all about temperature gradient...

85C or 90C is the maximum you'll get them running at. And that's with heat management planes in the PCB, a custom heatsink ('cause all ceramic BGAs are die up) and it attached to a cold wall.

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 230 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Henri on 17-May-2003 15:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
I think he has called IBM, because MAI is IBM "certified" as they say.

Regards
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 231 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 17-May-2003 15:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 217 (Olegil):
Hey, dude, chill, get some more icecream... ;)

I don't remember you being there when MorphOS was demoed at that show, so saying it "crashed hundreds of times" was uncalled for .. well, I was there, and infact it crashed once, yes *once*, due to a bug in MorphOS, and that was because the machine in question had yesterdays build on it for testing .. the other, maybe 5, crashes were plain old buggy app crashes, something not even the über-leetest OS can do anything about, much less in an environment where you can't have full memory protection...


- CISC
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 232 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-May-2003 15:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 231 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
I was NOT there for a showing of MorphOS on the show _I_ was talking about. Maybe _YOU_ aren't talking about the same _show_. I know it was more stable in March of this year, but that's not the show _I_ was talking about. _I_ was talking about the hyped up showing back in September, the day after I showed my own AmigaOne and Alan's Teron PX (with a G3) running Debian GNU/Linux, and several boards with new firmware. I was halfway back to Norway before the Pegasos show started that day, so either you're a god dang liar or you're just not reading my postings correctly.

Sorry about the lemon, btw. ;-)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 233 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-May-2003 15:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 231 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
Uhm, seems I owe you an apology. I thought you said I was there. Ok, but those who WAS there claimed it had crashed ALL the time. Not very impressive. Again, sorry for not reading _your_ posting right :-)

And again, sorry 'bout the lemon ;-)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 234 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 17-May-2003 16:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 233 (Olegil):
Dude, I told you to get another icecream (maybe I should have told you to wash your glasses afterwards too. ;) )...

The only one I saw making any kind of public claims about the crashing of MorphOS at that show was a certain dane that left after about 10mins, repeatedly boasting that he had managed to crash MorphOS (which seems was his only purpose in life, ahwell) .. anyway, *yes* there were crashes, and *yes*, there was a crash due to a bug in MorphOS, but *no*, there were not abnormally many crashes (for any system), and *no*, they were not all due to MorphOS.


- CISC
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 235 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 17-May-2003 16:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 232 (Olegil):
Oh, heheheh, just remembered about the lemon... ;)

No problem, hasn't seemed to cause any permanent retinal damage, so don't think I shall sue... ;)


- CISC
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 236 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alan Anthony on 17-May-2003 18:29 GMT
Cor my eyes hurt, I have read all this thread... How sad is that :-)

Anyway, I Have an A1XE and it installed first time and hasn't crashed or shown any problems. So far I am really pleased with it. I wanted to run Linux and OS4 so I am getting good use out the machine (Using Linux that is, I don't have OS4 YET)

Alan
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 237 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Hygen on 18-May-2003 04:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 217 (Olegil):
You don't get it, do you?

You complain about MOS being shown, David tells you how impressive it was to see PPCBoot (w00t, I can't believe it) and now you start some defense that is totally inapropriate.

And now look at this quote from you:

"How can you decide that? I know several people who have had a big wow from seeing just how much PPCBoot can do, and you're saying we should not show it to anyone because it isn't OS4 or Linux? Gee, who died and made YOU god, eh?"

And now look at this:

How can you decide that Genesi should not have shown MorphOS? Are you god or what? Do you know that MOS is a selling point?

Or did you just wanted to say that Genesi should not have shown MOS because it is not OS4 and could have dragged some users attention to it while you were just showing this cool PPCBoot that can show spinning ATI logos (wow, I am still so much impressed)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 238 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 18-May-2003 07:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 237 (Hygen):
No the impressive thing was the way they used x86 instructions to initialise any cards meaning you didn't have to

#1 get a Mac one with inflated price
#2 flash a PC one

Before you could use cards, even better you weren't limited to the Mac range.

Its like seeing a V8 engine and going "so what" when the reason it is there is to demonstrate a new gearbox.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 239 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-May-2003 08:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 238 (DaveP):
That was already possible on Pegasos' BIOS.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 240 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 18-May-2003 09:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 233 (Olegil):
Olegil typed:

> Uhm, seems I owe you an apology. I thought you said I was there. Ok, but those > who WAS there claimed it had crashed ALL the time. Not very impressive. Again, > sorry for not reading _your_ posting right :-)

There was a pitched fervor of anti-Genesi sentiment at that convention from certain people. There was the one guy "Bobson SirJonny" or whatever who pulled the Genesi poster from the wall and set it on fire (he later claimed he only held the poster while one of his mates lit it up). You probably read the account of somebody like that. A hater.

When I was at CES in Las Vegas in January I was at Genesi's stand for total of about 10 hours. I didn't witness a single crash, and those machines were running MorphOS, Linux, and Mac-On-Linux.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 241 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 18-May-2003 10:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 141 (Christophe Decanini):
> Before doing any assumption you should check the facts. He said they did not tell anything publically. Bugs were work out with MAI.

What he said was, that they sold Pegasos boards that had known problems without telling possible cusomers (which is the public) about these problems.
Possibly you will know after signing the NDA for the betatester (and buying tzhis thing) that it has problems, but not before.
So what did I get wrong?

Ciao, Alfred
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 242 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 18-May-2003 10:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 240 (Daniel Miller):
> There was a pitched fervor of anti-Genesi sentiment at that convention from
> certain people. There was the one guy "Bobson SirJonny" or whatever who pulled
> the Genesi poster from the wall and set it on fire (he later claimed he only
> held the poster while one of his mates lit it up). You probably read the account
> of somebody like that. A hater.

(sigh)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 243 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 18-May-2003 11:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 241 (Alfred Schwarz):
>Possibly you will know after signing the NDA for the betatester (and buying
>tzhis thing) that it has problems, but not before.

You couldn't buy a board (BT1) without signing a NDA.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 244 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 18-May-2003 12:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 240 (Daniel Miller):
ok, YOU'RE not talking about the same show the rest of us are talking about, so I'm not listening to you ;-)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 245 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-May-2003 12:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 241 (Alfred Schwarz):
That you had to sign an NDA to get a BT-1 board. After you singed the NDA, you
were told about the bugs. If you didn't like them, you didn't buy a Pegasos:)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 246 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 18-May-2003 12:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 237 (Hygen):
Nonono, I'm saying that I think we made a right decision in showing off what Hyperion had completed 2 days earlier, because there was no obvious problems with it. I'm also saying I think MorphOS was not in a state where it should have been shown at that time. OS4 was not in a state where it could be publically shown, only some modules was working. Some of these was shown, but I'm not too certain it was the right decision at the time. There was too much shit from certain people who don't understand what "written in C for portability between 3.9 and 4.0" means.
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