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[News] Bill Buck clarifies MAI situationANN.lu
Posted on 16-May-2003 08:58 GMT by ek246 comments
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Bill Buck offers on Moobunny his account on the events that lead to the creation of April, April2 and Genesi's decision to move ahead with Marvell instead of MAI.

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Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 51 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 16-May-2003 10:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (DaveP):
Remember the first bug in Articia. Gerald Carda must have travelled to MAI for them to believe, the bug exists. That much for MAI hw testing.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 52 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2003 10:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Anonymous):
I mean that even normal user would notice problems if there would be any. but as we have heard Amigaones seem to work whitout problems..
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 53 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 16-May-2003 10:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (DaveP):
"If you need to be a hardware expert to expose the bug"

The same happened with the FIRST Articia bug. Noone believed, even MAI that the bug exists, unless Gerald Carda didn't show them. So my question is valid.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 54 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 16-May-2003 10:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Emeric SH):
Why to do it in the first place, if it works 100% ok for users???

(HW expert should do their own boards ... ;-) )
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 55 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2003 10:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Emeric SH):
the question is not if you belive it or not. the question is that will that bug cause any problems. If the problem would be as bad as they say then it sure would not be so hard to detect that problem in normal use.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 56 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 16-May-2003 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Emeric SH):
...perfectionists can establish success like Genesi in y2002 ... less perfect product gain the success of windows in y2002 ... ;-)

(yes, I wish it would be the other way around)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 57 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 10:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Emeric SH):
My cynicism blood is up again :-)

But what happened at that meeting and before?

( not so wild speculation )

Before meeting

Carda> Theres a bug!
Mai> We don't see it.
Carda> Heres how to recreate it...
Mai> No, we still don't see it.
Carda> Look I can produce the bug on this kit easily, Ill pop over and show you.

At meeting

Carda> Here, take a look at this Pegasos prototype, this is the bug....
Mai> Sh!t! Thats real bad. We'll look into it right away can you leave us the Pegasos so we can check into it?

Much later
Mai> Erm weve been investigating this for the last month and we've found its in the southbridge you are using, sure the bug is exposed by the way Articia does X/Y/Z but the bug is really in .....
Carda> No it isn't its in your kit. I proved it to you. We've even been to the expense of producing patching chips because we couldn't wait.

Much much later
Carda> Bill (buck), We've tried the latest revision Articia and it's still there. They haven't fixed it!
Buck> Right, Ill sort them out.

Much much much later:
Buck> The bugs still there
Mai> The bug is still there because as we explained its in other components your kit uses.
Buck> My top engineer sayes the bugs in your chip, I trust the people that work for me.
Mai> Well Im sorry we can't help you, we even ran it through extra testing before shipping...

Is that so unbelievable? So from Bill Bucks perspective Mai was being truculent, from Mais perspective Genesi was being obtuse. They parth each thinking they are in the right and the other has wronged them.

This kind of misunderstanding happens more often than most of you would guess.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 58 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 16-May-2003 10:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (DaveP):
The problem with your "story" is that Eyetech admitted the bugs in the old Articia chip, which was discovered by G. Carda. So I still tend to believe that the bug exists.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 59 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 10:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Emeric SH):
What, this admission or another?


"Incidently the widely hyped (by Bill Buck and others) DMA (April-fix)
problem has been proved by MAI after extensive testing to be absolutely
nothing to do with the Articia northbridge. It is in fact a well known and
widely documented limitation of the VIA southbridge and is an effect that
occurs in very rare - but completely defined - circumstances. This is
properly handled by the IDE DMA driver in both Linux and OS4 (just as it is
with the many millions of PC's shipped with VIA southbridges). Also this is
not just a factor with the VIA 686B chip used on the AmigaOne, as has been
widely suggested, but is a limitation with the IDE/DMA core used in most
VIA southbridges of that family, including the one used in the Pegasos."
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 60 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by james on 16-May-2003 10:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Emeric SH):
Eyetech already knew before G. Carda about a small bug in the VIA chip and Articia that could cause a prob. This was fixed by eyetech though.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 61 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 16-May-2003 10:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (DaveP):
"problem has been proved by MAI after extensive testing"

The same MAI which first denied even the old the bugs in the Articia chip?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 62 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Velcro on 16-May-2003 10:19 GMT
"That is the whole ***truth*** and nothing but the truth so help me God. :-D
Sincerely, Raquel and Bill"


*LOL* :-D
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 63 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 10:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Emeric SH):
Read it again. Im sure you'll get through it second time to where they point
out that the bug is not in their chip ( which is probably why they denied it yes? ).
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 64 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 16-May-2003 10:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (DaveP):
Yes, I'd find it quite unbelievable that they'd make a highly advanced
bugfix (April) that just happens to fix the problems, when in fact
they don't have the slightest clue even *where* the problem is.

Anyway, regarding the severity of the bug: As I had an unfixed
Pegasos1, I can confirm that the bug was serious (spurious data
trashing) but not so serious that it was obvious that the hardware was
faulty (it only happened a few times during several months.. and how
could I know it wasn't a problems with my HD or something?).
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 65 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Bored on 16-May-2003 10:22 GMT
>We have to start marketing the product. We are months behind schedule.

Yeah, hell OS4 is months (years!) behind schedule. They just just slap whatever they have together, bugs and all and start selling it!

>We start selling the Betatester Pegasos and provide units to the development team. We needed to do something. We say NOTHING publically about the "bugs" -- we call it a Betatester because we know it has problems.

Sell hardware you know has bugs in it. Great!!!!

>Eyetech distributes a flyer that indicates the Articia has "bugs." We are not happy.

Oh no, someone is telling the truth, how dare they!!

>We call Mai. This is NOT good for any of us. Mai says they will fix the problem with Eyetech.

Yes, try and bully Eyetech and MAI, no wonder that...

>. Everything goes quiet on the Mai end

>FACT: Without bplan it was not possible for Mai to fix even what was fixed on the Articia.

Fact? Speculation. How can you saw they are capable of designing a chip, but not fixing a bug in it? I'm just saying that might be the way it happened, but with the bug identified they would have been able to fix it themselfs surely.

>TerraSoft (that we have an agreement with to distribute the Pegasos in the USA), announces that they will carry the Teron instead -- in complete collusion with Mai. We were double crossed!

Not surprised in the least by what I've read so far.

>After two weeks we call IBM. IBM reviews the situation and decides to help us. IBM forces Mai to ship the chips.

I just don't get this part??

>Mai screwed everybody.

Hmm, those A1's are shipping. I guess they didn't screw everybody.

>so help me God

Yep.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 66 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2003 10:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Ben Yoris):
> Both SE and XE AmigaOnes are using an Articia chipset : is this right ?

>As the Articia Chipset (even patched by Mai) seems to be buggy, does that mean >that both SE and XE AmigaOnes are buggy as well ?

>Or am I missing the point ?

The point being that they are no longer using the Articia, but their competitor is so they have to spread FUD about it now.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 67 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Ross Heinlein on 16-May-2003 10:25 GMT
These bugs have nothing to do with the southbridge folks. The boys at Mai would have caught that when Genesi described it. Everyone knows about the Via southbridges and their idiosyncracies, and i mean -everyone- in the industry.

Make no mistake, the problems with the Mai northbridge are very real. I'm not saying they can't be worked around, but to completely argue against their existance is downright incredible. You think everyone stopped using it for the sheer hell of it? You think I stopped work on the linux drivers because I got bored?

I have complete confidence in the ole' Marv. Both the motherboards you as a community are waiting for will benefit from it greatly. Mai is water under the bridge.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 68 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 16-May-2003 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Bored):
heheh couldn`t agree more :)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 69 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 10:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Johan Rönnblom):
OK you don't understand.

Say I have module A which calls module C and module B which also co-exists through a complex relationship with module C.

Module A is witnessed to have serious problems, it is traced as far as module B.

Module D is developed to patch apparent module B flaws. Whenever module A calls module B, Module D compensates for apparent module B flaws.

Provider of module B clarifies that the problem is really in module C and the best they can do is modify their design to compensate but this does not truly fix the problem.

Im not saying they didn't know where the problem is, Im saying they fixed it at the point where it was exposed.

In this case I am suggesting that
A == pegasos
B == northbridge
C == southbridge
D == april chip
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 70 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 10:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (DaveP):
Yes, it is unbelievable, cause the bug is reproducable on Teron CX/PX and even
the "different" AmigaONE boards...
Gerald Carda is not the "no it's not my bug, it's yours!" troll engineer, he's
a VERY highly experienced PPC board designer, UNLIKE Alan Redhouse, who bases
whatever he says on what he's been told...
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 71 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 10:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (james):
So, you think that Genesi would pay the earth to make a fix for a not existing
bug that could easily be fixed by a small board redesign? You're being naive...
The April2 costs A *HELL* of a lot of money and it's Genesi that pays that, not
the user... No, Eyetech fixed no bug at all by themselves... They got the first
fix from MAI... That first fix was a joint effort by Gerald Carda and MAI...
BTW, the DMA bug is ONE of the problems... There are others, such as bug timing
and even stuff that cannot be fixed externally and are still intact in the BNGE
chip.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 72 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 10:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> Yes, it is unbelievable, cause the bug is reproducable on Teron CX/PX and even
the "different" AmigaONE boards...

Still does not preclude the scenario, nor does it invalidate the


> Gerald Carda is not the "no it's not my bug, it's yours!" troll engineer

You called him a troll here, not me. I am speculating a misunderstanding between symptom and cause. Perhaps the issue was Gerald expected Articia S by design to account for the Via problems?

So far you haven't delivered anything to the table that contradicts what I have put.

> , he's a VERY highly experienced PPC board designer,

If you say so, of course the boys at MAI are total novices.


> UNLIKE Alan Redhouse

What has Alan Redhouse got to do with the scenario you are replying to? Sure, he repeats the Mai line but in that case ( as you acknowledge " who bases
whatever he says on what he's been told..." ) the fair comparison is with Mai technical staff.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 73 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 16-May-2003 10:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
oh and so your saying Bill Buck is an highly experienced PPC board designer too and im sure when he posts his so called "FACTS" about MAI they are't from someone else or just made up?

yeah right
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 74 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by james on 16-May-2003 10:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
no eyetech already knew before Gerald. genesi shouldn't have buggy south brige boards that casue problems with MAI. so its not MAI`s fault.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 75 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 10:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (DaveP):
Excuse me, are you people THAT naive!?!?
WHY would Mai make a new version of the chipset "to fix the bugs" and WHY
did Eyetech wait for them to do that, if the bug wasn't in the ArticiaS but
in the southbridge!? Does it need Einstein's IQ level to see that?
Answer my question... WHY!?

Oh and about MAI's engineers... I wouldn't call someone that denies a bug and
fails to reproduce it after specific instructions, a professional.
They only believed Gerald, when he visited them and reproduced that bug on his
AND their equipement... He helped MAI make a fix. After that, MAI denied the
existance of the bug, yet shipping "fixed" boards and making new ArticiaS chips...
Again.. WHY would they make a new revision to fix a bug that doesn't exist?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 76 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 10:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Leki):
Bill Buck and Raquel Velasco, post facts, discovered by Gerald Carda and Thomas
Kneabel... These *ARE* hardware engineers...
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 77 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 10:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (james):
Wanna know when I first heard about the bug? Even before Eyetech said that
"there's no ArticiaS bug"...
BTW, if you're so certain, reply to my questions, above...
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 78 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 10:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
@Alkis

Here we are again, you blowing a blood vessel over someone not coming to the exact same conclusions you do. ***sigh***

I don't know what bug fixes were in the new revisions, Ive never said they were bug free, I don't know even if they introduced a design extension to cope with the Via anomoly and frankly from what I can tell neither do you otherwise you would have done a cat History.txt > http://www.amiga.org by now.

You may have some extra knowledge that you are aware of that the rest of us aren't that supports your PoV but until there you aren't making any friends
with your instant resort to calling me naive and questioning my IQ.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 79 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 16-May-2003 10:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (DaveP):
> If you say so, of course the boys at MAI are total novices.

I should probably stay out of this discussion... But there might be a difference between what the engineers say and what the company says. An engineer might find a bug, but it might be bad publicity for the company to admit that.

(I can't help but think of a small side-story Chuck Palahniuk uses in Fight Club (the book): the narrator works for a large car manufacturer. They decide on whether to do a recall by calculating the cost of a recall versus the cost of out of court settlements if they don't fix and are sued. Couldn't it be the same thing here: while MAI know there is a bug, it makes more sense for them not to admit it publically and perhaps lose a few customers who know better, rather than admitting it and potentially losing more.)

Anyway, this is entirely hypothetical and I'm not trying to say anyone is right or wrong. Just bringing another argument into this debate.

(And because writing this distracted me from the realities of real life. :)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 80 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by bored on 16-May-2003 10:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>Excuse me, are you people THAT naive!?!?
>WHY would Mai make a new version of the chipset "to fix the bugs" and WHY
>did Eyetech wait for them to do that, if the bug wasn't in the ArticiaS but
>in the southbridge!? Does it need Einstein's IQ level to see that?
>Answer my question... WHY!?

I think I can clear this up. The ArticiaS had a bug that was fixed with the April and the A1 bug fix thing. It only makes sense to include this fix into the lastest revision of the chip. So they made a new version to incorperate a bug fix that is just external on the A1/Peg?? Is that what you're asking?

>Oh and about MAI's engineers... I wouldn't call someone that denies a bug and
>fails to reproduce it after specific instructions, a professional.

Really, we havent heard the story from their point of view. We've only heard it from someone who has it in his best intertest to make them look bad.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 81 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 16-May-2003 10:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
They probably made a new chipset revision to just make general improvments...and maybe to fix a few minor bugs (that could have usally been fixed with software or a simple wire on the hardware.....most hardware has some bugs)...also maybe to try and fix the major bugs that the pegasos board had.

i agree with what DaveP is saying anyway
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 82 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 10:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Alan Redhouse, in the instance we refer to, posts facts from Mai ( and you admitted earlier on that he just parrots what they tell him ) who are hardware designers and engineers and have the schematics for their own chip on file, their own testing resources etc. We also ( or rather I do now ;-) ) have the documentation about the Via issue and how it has been worked around in the Linux I happen to use.

Sounds amazingly like Mai ( through Alan Redhouse ) was telling the truth on the matter of this DMA issue.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 83 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 10:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (DaveP):
I don't think that saying that you don't need Einstein's IQ to understand this
is the same as questioning your IQ... You don't have SUCH a high IQ and neither
do I. (Einstein had about 180 afaik).
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 84 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 16-May-2003 10:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
and so something that MAI has told Alan is untrue?....are you saying MAI are not hardware engineers?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 85 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 10:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Christian Kemp):
@Christian

Absolutely. I'm playing devils advocate with Alkis to see if he picks up on that very point. In both cases its a company statement ( a policy line ) which may be part or wholly the truth.

In fact, in my scenario, both can be telling the truth as they see it but thats clearly too subtle.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 86 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2003 10:50 GMT
There is no such as bug free chip, there is no such as bugfree software. There will never be such things, those designs are far too complex that to happen.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 87 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 10:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
No. My IQ was tested in the 160-170 range in my teens and it dropped to the 150s in my twenties although frankly I don't believe that IQ tests hold any water.

You said I didn't need the IQ of Einstien to come to the correct conclusion, which basically translated to "even a vaguely smart person could see it".

Clearly my judgement was clouded by the use of capital letters and the naivety statement in your post. Apologies.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 88 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2003 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Anonymous):
Ofcourse i mean large softwre, not some small tools :)
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 89 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (DaveP):
Excuse me but there are not many ways to see that specific story...
bPlan say that there are bugs.
Mai denies them
Eyetech denies there are bugs
Mai agrees.
Gerald visits MAI, reproduces the bugs and make a quick fix.
Eyetech finds the bugs and use the fix MAI made...
Mai distribute the fix and prepare a new revision of the chipset to fix it...
Yet they STILL deny the existance of the bug.
Eyetech waits for the new revision.
Gerald designs *VERY* expensive fixes.
Mai makes a new revision, fixing one of the bugs that "did not exist" and they
claim that the bugs are in the southbridge.
Can you believe that? They paid 50-100,000 dollars to make a new chip mask and
produce a new revision, to fix not existing bugs, claimed to be in the southbridge?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 90 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 10:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (bored):
Exactly, it makes perfect sense. And that's what they did...
The problem is that they still claim that there was no bug and
people still believe them.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 91 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 10:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Leki):
Ehm, the AmigaONE and Pegasos boards had *EXACTLY* the same probs, like it or
not. The bugs were reproduced on both boards.
Secondly, read Alan's posting, the fix was *NOT* a simple wire...
It was a GAL, soldered in a vacant space on the board, connected to the
ArticiaS chip with wires...
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 92 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 10:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (DaveP):
See? (Mine is ~150).
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 93 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 16-May-2003 10:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
yes maybe the bug isn`t in the northbridge which would mean its true what alan said that it has no major bugs.....the problem is in the VIA chip but VIA arn`t going to make a new revision of there chip just for eyetech and MAI to use so instead MAI have to do a few changes on there side to get around the bug in the VIA chip. after that though the pegasos must have had more bugs of its own and so thats why they had to make the april 2 fix. AmigaOnes dotn need an april 2 fix as it doesn`t affect them as the problem isn`t with the MAI chip
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 94 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 10:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Yes, that is also a plausible story. But the point is we have two contradictory claims here. One from MAI ( that the bug they accepted was later found to be a southbridge issue ), one from Genesi ( that the bug they found is in Articia ) and somewhere between these there is the truth.

Heres just three alternatives:
1. Mai lies, lies through its teeth like theres no tomorrow. There is a problem in the southbridge but there is also a problem in the northbridge too.

2. Genesi has mistaken symptom for cause and it is too late to stop production of April fixes and besides, they'd need to patch it anyway! They are still convinced its a northbridge flaw.

3. Genesi now knows its a southbridge flaw, there are other flaws which will necessitate further patching and the symptom is still there. It cannot now back down from its "DMA bug definately Articia S" statement without losing a lot of credibility.

I turn the question on its head, why, if Mai had accepted the bug and had worked with Genesi to fix it , why would it risk losing a customer by not including the bug fix with its new Articia S? I mean all that expense (blah blah).
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 95 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 10:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Leki):
Ok, ok... whatever you say... Just don't you ever use PowerUP boards, as they
are made from stupid engineers... right?
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 96 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 16-May-2003 11:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (DaveP):
2. Genesi has mistaken symptom for cause and it is too late to stop production of April fixes and besides, they'd need to patch it anyway! They are still convinced its a northbridge flaw.
--

Not likely, they wouldn't produce the April2 then, they would stop with the
April1.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 97 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 11:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Hey, no one is suggesting they are stupid engineers. The PowerUP boards have flaws
and problems that were worked around ( most famous being BlizzardPPC issues whinged on about by the Fusion PPC guys ).

You can be experienced, even an expert, and still err.
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 98 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 16-May-2003 11:03 GMT
Mr. Buck says it was *Eyetech* that first revealed to the public that the Articia
had bugs - and that they (bplan) didn't like that revelation. I don't remember
this incident. For me it was always Bill Buck that was the first one talking about
bugs in Articia.
Not to mention that everyone is *still* talking about how Eyetech
"denied" the bugs. Am I misunderstanding some vital point here?
.
SlimJim
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 99 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-May-2003 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Well they'd still need to patch the symptom unless they could get the VIA
southbridge fixed at root cause.

April 2 could easily have been produced to fix further problems encountered ( and was if I recall ).
Bill Buck clarifies MAI situation : Comment 100 of 246ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-May-2003 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
How are these bugs demonstrated?

Is there a program which can be run on Linux which will show up the bug or bugs? If so, it can be run on some AmigaOnes to test for the presence of the bug(s).

I have seen no precise description of the bug(s) or in what situations they occur, other than a very vague "something to do with DMA".
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