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[Web] PegasosPPC website? Genesi?ANN.lu
Posted on 17-May-2003 17:07 GMT by m0ns00n65 comments
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I did this as a blind url test, and I was amazed at the level of professionalism that is presented at this website. Take a look for ourself: * http://www.pegasosppc.com I don't know if it has been posted before..
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 1 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Jack Me on 17-May-2003 15:19 GMT
Oh look. If you look at the picture on the main page you'll see that the poor blokes Pegasos has crashed and he's had to resort to the old pen and paper.;)
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 2 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 17-May-2003 15:20 GMT
Looks like a new busy day at Amiga Inc.'s new office :)
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 3 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 17-May-2003 15:26 GMT
I had not seen that before. Very clean and nice design! :-)
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 4 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 17-May-2003 15:26 GMT
Didn't new Gentoo was a commercial distro. heh
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 5 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 17-May-2003 15:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (corpse):
s/new/know
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 6 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by 4pLaYeR on 17-May-2003 15:31 GMT
in fact this is theyre new design that was due for release to the public today so you were lucky :-).
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 7 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by logain on 17-May-2003 15:32 GMT
This site is absolutely great (graphics, layout/arrangement, texts),
very good work indeed :-)
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 8 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 17-May-2003 15:35 GMT
The site looks good and well constructed to me, with a professional feel. I particularly like the avoidance of the trademark "Amiga" in the description of MorphOS. IMHO this approach should have been taken from day one and would have avoided some of the bad feeling generated along the way.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 9 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-May-2003 15:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Bill Hoggett):
Very nice indeed.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 10 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 17-May-2003 15:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (takemehomegrandma):
It also shows that you can make a good looking and functional web site that works with Amiga browsers.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 11 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 17-May-2003 15:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Bill Hoggett):
> I particularly like the avoidance of the trademark "Amiga" in the
> description of MorphOS. IMHO this approach should have been taken from day
> one and would have avoided some of the bad feeling generated along the way.

I don't agree. The Amiga connection is what made the whole platform interesting to me and many others from the beginning. Of course that should be announced, it's a key feature.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 12 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 17-May-2003 16:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (takemehomegrandma):
@takemehomegrandma

> I don't agree. The Amiga connection is what made the whole platform
> interesting to me and many others from the beginning. Of course that
> should be announced, it's a key feature.

Please re-read what I wrote earlier, taking care to understand the point this time. I did not say the feature should not have been advertised, only that this need not have been done by rigind roughshod all over the trademark.

The current website shows what I mean very clearly. It mentions the feature, but does not use the trademark. Ergo, it *is* possible.

I realise this is a concept that will only be understood by those who are capable of keeping a perspective. Those people who think the red/blue faction is perfect and the opposition is evil will find the whole thing drifts right over their head.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 13 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 17-May-2003 16:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Bill Hoggett):
sorry, can't type for peanuts...

sub "rigind" with "riding" above.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 14 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 17-May-2003 16:22 GMT
Looks great!
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 15 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 17-May-2003 16:55 GMT
Talking of websites, the link "MorphZone" here at ann.lu is a little bit too left when browsed on IBrowse 2.3 .. on IE it works just fine.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 16 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 17-May-2003 17:45 GMT
Congrats, Genesi web team!
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 17 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 17-May-2003 17:48 GMT
Hmm, that website is very well done.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 18 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 17-May-2003 18:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (hooligan/dcs):
I also see that the _hated_ ku klux klan site, amigaworld.net suddenly appeared
in the links here on the right, how the h*ll did that happen ? :)

CK spesificly explained that he only adds links to sites where he knows the
webmaster...ann is hacked ? new links added with broken html code, isnt CK
working with websites in his reallife job, doesnt look like its CK's work at
all...
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 19 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by amigamad on 17-May-2003 18:26 GMT
Wayne Hunt over at Amiga.org will only allow anti Amiga comments and deletes comments against Genesi, i thought that might cheer you MorphOS blind zealots up.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 20 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 17-May-2003 18:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (amigamad):
> Wayne Hunt over at Amiga.org will only allow anti Amiga comments and deletes
> comments against Genesi, i thought that might cheer you MorphOS blind
> zealots up.

Your comments there were deleted because they are as worthless as your comments here.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 21 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-May-2003 18:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (amigamad):
Oh, please ban him... He just drops the level of the whole community...
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 22 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 17-May-2003 19:06 GMT
Sad to say, it looks more professional, to me, than any of the official Amiga sites.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 23 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 17-May-2003 19:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (catohagen):
> new links added with broken html code

What broken HTML code?

> isnt CK working with websites in his reallife job

No.

> doesnt look like its CK's work at all...

Hmm.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 24 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Casey R Williams on 17-May-2003 21:27 GMT
I have to say something, I've been quiet too long. That site does look nice. It looks really nice, actually. But then again, 99% of what I've seen from the Pegasos people has been quite reassuring. By now someone reading this has probably pegged me as a blind rabid anti-amiga zealot. Oh how I wish that were the case, but I'm not blind, rather I've seen too much. I've seen numerous announcements regarding Intent which had no mention of Amiga, and there's really nothing to keep me believing that these yayhoos that can't get some shirts printed are ever going to launch a credible computing platform. But Fleecy's latest Q&A was the clincher. Does he expect anyone to believe that Amiga OS5 is really going to happen? I mean how many years has 4.0 been gestating? Does he really believe that 5.0 is even worth discussing given that 4.0 is still months away, 4.2 is even further still, and noone even knows who'd be putting 5.0 together anyway? But sadly, I'm certain there are people who will believe them. I'm not saying sadly as in that they are sad, but that it is sad to see people believing against all logic because they desire the outcome so strongly. I'd love to have seen Amiga reborn, under Gateway with ATI as a partner (though AOL was also involved so I'm also happy it didn't happen), or by Bill and Fleecy. But c'mon people use your heads. The best hope (I didn't say only) is for MOS to succeed, as they can't possibly be as incompetent as the usual morons who head Amiga time after time. If Viscorp had gotten Amiga instead of Gateway, we'd be 5 years ahead of where we are now, MOS would be called AOS and everyone would be happy. I'm not trying to stir anything up here, but the last few weeks have been interesting. I expect Bill to announce a new CEO, or to say it's over kids time to move along. I don't know what's happening over there but it's either insanely great or a total wash. I'll just be happy when Hyperion actually get AOS, as at least I know they can get something done on their own and not just be a front and a trademark for others' hard work.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 25 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 17-May-2003 22:11 GMT
But its all done on a Mac...
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 26 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Hunt on 17-May-2003 23:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (amigamad):
@Amigamad

After repeated requests to stop your "madness", you may no longer consider yourself welcomed at Amiga.org. You're welcomed to say anything you like, you always have been. You cannot come to any site however, personally attacking people, their wifes and family as well as to continually troll and try and start wars between others.

I would not accept that type of activity regardless of who the target was.

This situation is particularly accentuated by the fact that you can't spell or punctuate properly. This leads me to believe you are one of the few in our Amiga.org poll who got your Amiga in 2003 as a Bahmitzpah gift...

When you grow up, feel free to contact me and I will gladly reconsider.

Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 27 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by MacCloneSite on 18-May-2003 02:12 GMT
You think this site is visionary? Anyone can copy the Apple/Mac look.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 28 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by DDJ on 18-May-2003 02:59 GMT
Amazing, like MorphOS.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 29 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 18-May-2003 04:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Casey R Williams):
Hey Casey! Haven't seen you online for quite a while. I hope you are fine!

Thanks for the nice comment, btw. :)
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 30 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 18-May-2003 05:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (MacCloneSite):
"Anyone can copy the Apple/Mac look."

Using an existing good design as a starting point is always a good idea, and not nearly as easy as you think.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 31 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 18-May-2003 06:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (MacCloneSite):
Stop complaining. Having a centered menu and page, white, bright colours and clear text might be like what Apple did, but clearly, the pages aren't copied. Go to apple.com and compare. And you - whatever you would design, don't you think that I would be able to find a functional copy elsewhere in all these millions of websites out there?
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 32 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-May-2003 06:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (DDJ):
LOL
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 33 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-May-2003 07:07 GMT
Its alright ?!?
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 34 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Amigan on 18-May-2003 07:48 GMT
"What is April?

Expanding the capabilities of the Mai Articia S chipset, April is a custom chip combination designed to enhance data security during conditions that require high proficiency operations."

Hummmmmm, I think that the true goal of April is to fix the Articia Bugs. If there isn't bugs, There isn't April.

Saying "Expanding the capabilities of the Mai Articia S chipset" they are cleary not telling the true about April,not telling to fix buggy chipset in the mobo that they are promoting.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 35 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 18-May-2003 07:52 GMT
You call this good site?

Silly thing doesn't even have a DTD and says nothing about what character encoding to use. Really, it's just another webduhsigner mockup. :)

Standards are soooo hard to follow, hehehe.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 36 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 18-May-2003 08:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
"Silly thing doesn't even have a DTD"

There is no need for a DTD if CSS is not being used. This site uses plain traditional HTML and can be viewed on all Amiga browsers (except possibly ALynx).

It looks nice and everything works.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 37 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 18-May-2003 08:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
Standards are hard to follow. There are so many of them. Most designers know that trying to support the w3c standards are often a waste of time and money, since the pages are viewed properly on all browsers, and still doesn't validate.

Perhaps, as time goes, they will add standard compliance. But for now, the site does what a site is made to do: communicate, present and give access.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 38 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 18-May-2003 08:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Don Cox):
Don, that's simply wrong.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 39 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 18-May-2003 08:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (m0ns00n):
No, the standards are quite simpel to follow, and it's not like there are no tools to help you out. W3C have their validator at http://validator.w3.org/ and it is quite simple to use.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 40 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 18-May-2003 08:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Don Cox):
Anyways, http://www.pegasosppc.com/ does use CSS. But again, that is beside the point.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 41 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 18-May-2003 09:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (m0ns00n):
> Standards are hard to follow.

Not if you create the site from scratch and have standards-compliance in mind from day one.

> There are so many of them.

HTML 4.01 and CSS2 are the major standards. And if you have a site that validates as HTML 4.01 Strict, it is relatively non-trivial to migrate to XHTML 1.

> Most designers know that trying to support the w3c standards are often a
> waste of time and money, since the pages are viewed properly on all browsers,
> and still doesn't validate.

What about Lynx? What about people with reading disabilities? What about reading content on PDAs. etc.

But I agree that sometimes, it's good to have a site that looks good on 95% of browsers, rather than a site that is 100% standards compliant but fails on those browsers (Netscape 4 et al.) that are not quite HTML 3.2, but not quite HTML 4.01 either.


> Perhaps, as time goes, they will add standard compliance. But for now, the
> site does what a site is made to do: communicate, present and give access.

I agree. I liked it when I was shown it.


(PS.: My point of view might come across better if you look at ckemp.com and usa.ckemp.com, not ann.lu whose code is severely hampered by having to look "good" on older browsers.)
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 42 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 18-May-2003 11:08 GMT
It's a well designed site and even got usefull content on it (if it's of interest for you , offcourse).

I do find the Articia northbridge description funny, does it tell the entire truth ;-) ?

"Mai provides the northbridge for the original Pegasos, providing it with an advanced PCI, AGP and memory bus. It includes such features as dual PCI bus, AGP support on PCI bus 1, a Multi-Function Memory Controller and a floating buffer to cache and arbitrate the various elements of the system."
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 43 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 18-May-2003 12:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
If a DTD is essential, name a browser that doesn't render this Pegasos site.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 44 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Kay on 18-May-2003 13:12 GMT
Oooh, pretty site. Too bad there's nothing of interest on it...:-P

Kay
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 45 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Mendoza on 18-May-2003 15:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Don Cox):
You're totally missing the point heh. It's people that think like you and act accordingly that makes the web and HTML the mess it is today :(
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 46 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 18-May-2003 16:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Don Cox):
"render it" or "render it correctly"?
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 47 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by NeRP on 18-May-2003 16:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Casey R Williams):
>I have to say something, I've been quiet too long. That site does

Go back to being quiet. No really.


>look nice. It looks really nice, actually. But then again, 99% of
>what I've seen from the Pegasos people has been quite reassuring. By
>now someone reading this has probably pegged me as a blind rabid
>anti-amiga zealot. Oh how I wish that were the case, but I'm not
>blind, rather I've seen too much. I've seen numerous announcements

Uh huh.


>regarding Intent which had no mention of Amiga, and there's really
>nothing to keep me believing that these yayhoos that can't get some
>shirts printed are ever going to launch a credible computing
>platform. But Fleecy's latest Q&A was the clincher. Does he expect

I still can't believe that you think that Amiga, Inc and T-shirts has
*ANY FUCKING THING TO DO WITH AMIGAOS OR THE AMIGAONE* - other than
signing papers.

Wake up!

>anyone to believe that Amiga OS5 is really going to happen? I mean
>how many years has 4.0 been gestating? Does he really believe that
>5.0 is even worth discussing given that 4.0 is still months away, 4.2
>is even further still, and noone even knows who'd be putting 5.0
>together anyway? But sadly, I'm certain there are people who will

I heard the same shit about OS3.5 and OS3.9 blah blah same crap.


>people use your heads. The best hope (I didn't say only) is for MOS
>to succeed, as they can't possibly be as incompetent as the usual

I think you'll see otherwise. Again, Amiga, Inc do not really have
*any* reflection on Eyetech and Hyperion, who *are* the people
bringing the AmigaOne and AmigaOSv4 to market. You need to learn that
simple fact.


>morons who head Amiga time after time. If Viscorp had gotten Amiga

I think you should look at who you are calling a moron. Seriously.


>insanely great or a total wash. I'll just be happy when Hyperion
>actually get AOS, as at least I know they can get something done on
>their own and not just be a front and a trademark for others' hard
>work.

Whoa. You know Hyperion are doing the OS. Amazing. Are you going to
accuse them of not delivering T-Shirts now?
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 48 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 18-May-2003 17:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Nicolas Mendoza):
"You're totally missing the point heh. It's people that think like you and act accordingly that makes the web and HTML the mess it is today :("

No, the point is that the browsers doesn't match the standards. There are thousand sites containing standard tests, of which many DOESN'T work on ANY of the current browsers.

Let's face it: who are able to stick to the standards, like Microsoft, they only care about the standards when it's in their interest. If needed, they intentionally break standards, and setting own IE standards. It's something neither you or I can change.

A site working on all browsers is the best a designer can make, from the users point of view.

The standards are simply neglected today - not even by the webdesigners (a large percentage designs for IE only) but even by the browser manufacturers.
Compliance with IE is a higher level pseudo standard than the original ones.
That is bad, but you can't change it.

However high you keep standards, beyond a point it worths nothing. Like it or not, it's the real world.
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 49 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 18-May-2003 19:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Casey R Williams):
Hmm, complete lack of linebreaks on your input device? You made my eyes water! :-)
PegasosPPC website? Genesi? : Comment 50 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 18-May-2003 19:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
I have to side with Kolla and nicomen here. And I've worked for Opera Software.

Of course, that makes me "biased", right? Yeah, thought so.

Anyway, if it doesn't follow the standards for HTML as set by W3C, it's not HTML. So what excactly is it? This page is a classic example of doing it from a bad textbook.

It starts out with:
<html>
<head>
<title>PegasosPPC.com - Welcome!</title>
<basefont face="verdana" size="2">
<style>
<!--
body { font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; margin: 0px; }
td { font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; }
-->
</style>
</head>

So, it's using styles, but doesn't say what kind of styles. Is it CSS or something else? Also, it's being sent as mime-type text/html, but it's not defined as html in the actual file (no, starting with <html> isn't enough), and it's not set up as any specific version of html (presumably because it doesn't follow any standard, just picks elements randomly from the various html definitions?). And most importantly, it has no defined character set. This is dangerous.

Here's what W3C's own validator had to say about it:

"I was not able to extract a character encoding labeling from any of the valid sources for such information. Without encoding information it is impossible to validate the document. The sources I tried are:
The HTTP Content-Type field.
The XML Declaration.
The HTML "META" element.

And I even tried to autodetect it using the algorithm defined in Appendix F of the XML 1.0 Recommendation.

Since none of these sources yielded any usable information, I will not be able to validate this document. Sorry. Please make sure you specify the character encoding in use.

IANA maintains the list of official names for character sets. "

Wow. So basically, this document could render differently base on what character set the browser autodetects. Since the W3C autodetection doesn't work on this page, how do you figure the browser is gonna get it right?

I suggest tidying up some of these and try again. I'll even help if anyone bothers to ask. I have _some_ experience with html and css. I mean, I DO work with it for a living...
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