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[News] $1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOSANN.lu
Posted on 19-May-2003 20:57 GMT by catohagen (Edited on 2003-05-20 08:26:37 GMT by Christian Kemp)83 comments
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"catohagen" quotes Bill Panagouleas, Founder/CEO of DiscreetFX: Looking to make a $1000, port this app and I will pay you. If the dead BeOs can have a port so can Amiga OS, spread the word. More information can be found here. As of right now, there is a $2,150 pot.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 1 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-May-2003 18:59 GMT
? what app ?!
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 2 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 19-May-2003 19:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
Maybe the title of this item is a clue? ;)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 3 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 19-May-2003 19:02 GMT
gawd, should be port Mozilla to AmigaOS
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 4 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 19-May-2003 19:05 GMT
make that $1100, i'll be happy to chip in $100 for a mozilla port :)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 5 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 19-May-2003 19:07 GMT
that to AmigaOS4 then?

what do u think of opera 7.11? :)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 6 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 19-May-2003 19:10 GMT
$50.000 to the one who can make Voyager stay up withour crashinf for five or more minutes in normal websurfing :-)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 7 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-May-2003 19:41 GMT
The BeOS port was much easier. Although BeOS is woefully incomplete and has a lot of serious design bugs, it doesn't come close to the obsolete mess that is AmigaOS. On BeOS the big fights were AFAIK: Network subsystem is utter junk, never intended for production; VM and shared object loader were very limited and basically only work for toy apps; File I/O is bizarre; GUI is hosed / graphics drivers suck.

You'd have to expect a lot more trouble in AmigaOS, especially for threading, memory handling and so on.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 8 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 19-May-2003 22:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (catohagen):
@Cato

"make that $1100, i'll be happy to chip in $100 for a mozilla port :)"

I'm a bit short on money right now but make it $1175... Would be very nice to see someone tak on that project (again..).
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 9 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by corwin on 19-May-2003 22:07 GMT
discreetfx is now offering 2000$
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 10 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 19-May-2003 22:08 GMT
Just got an email from Bill who offered the $1000.

A fund will be set up within 3-4 days, so everyone who want to contribute with money will be able to do so.

Hopefully a larger sum of money will get someone to form a group of people to do the porting :-)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 11 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 19-May-2003 22:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Troels Ersking):
First draft of AmiZilla Website up and $2000 already in the pot. Donate to amizillafund@discreetfx.com

Keep the Dream Alive.

http://www.discreetfx.com/AmiZilla.html
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 12 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by José on 20-May-2003 00:07 GMT
I see a VERY bad thing in this, and a VERY good one.
The good one is obvious, the bad one is that there is nothing to promote joint efforts. What about if the first person to give you a beta gets the money and doesn't develop it more? Or if the first person to port it has a very bloated port compared to other effort that was just a little behing in time? Not to talk About the waste of time doubled efforts would be and that with a joint effort we could get it faster. I say get a team together or some other way.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 13 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by keisangi on 20-May-2003 01:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (José):
yea, i agree with jose, don't waste time to develop two time the same
app.. i've heard there were some port in the way already..
maybe we should contact the team who is already porting mozilla to
Amiga and propose em money to speed up the process, i bet they would
be interested
:)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 14 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 20-May-2003 01:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (José):
Very very good point Jose, I agree 100%. Anyone that starts a serious port should contact me so I can Project Manage this and make it a team effort.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 15 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by keisangi on 20-May-2003 02:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (José):
yea, i agree with jose, don't waste time to develop two time the same
app.. i've heard there were some port in the way already..
maybe we should contact the team who is already porting mozilla to
Amiga and propose em money to speed up the process, i bet they would
be interested
:)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 16 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 20-May-2003 02:16 GMT
I'd be willing to add to the donation if it were targeted at ALL Amiga-like platforms, ie:ARos, MOS, etc
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 17 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by volm on 20-May-2003 02:20 GMT
where can I download the given mozilla sources?
and is this a request for mozilla, firebird, or simply the gecko parser?
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 18 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 20-May-2003 03:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (T_Bone):
Yes this should be for all Amiga like systems, I will update the website to reflect this. Good suggestion T-Bone, thank you.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 19 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Emil Oppeln Bronikowski on 20-May-2003 03:03 GMT
Why Mozilla itself? Why not port Gecko engine into shared library? Why not checkout khtml. There's also Pheonix(now's Firebird) projects. Mozilla is faaar to big to be one-person project.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 20 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 20-May-2003 03:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (volm):
Firebird would be fine, Mozilla sources are @ http://www.mozilla.org/source.html
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 21 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 20-May-2003 03:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Emil Oppeln Bronikowski):
A Firebird port would earn you over $2000, that would be fine.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 22 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll on 20-May-2003 03:41 GMT
I hope you dont mind DaveP, but I'm going to post the url to your amiga.org posts here..

http://amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6928&forum=2#95461

"No. I had a good version running on OS3.9 but
the mosdev mailing list was stillborn when I
posted it - it seems.

If I get time, I might ressurect it and bring it up
to the latest M release level and throw it onto OS4
as a freebie port. "

"Erm, yes, I've posted about this quite frequently in
the past and no one has taken me up on the offer
of taking it on - being too subtle I guess. I seemed to be the only one doing any actual work on it so I stopped.

Its slow, buggy ( early M codebase ), and needs a lot
of graft to get to something that I would be proud of.

It is sitting on the machine to the right of where I am typing at the moment which is sans one broken motherboard. "
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 23 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Emil Oppeln Bronikowski on 20-May-2003 03:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Bill Panagouleas):
I know where sources of Mozilla/Firebird are. And Im not going to try to port it. Why? It's quite complex. And there's big differences between Amiga and Linux, ixemul won't handle everything. It isn't "grab&compile" source. Think about it, if porting Mozilla/Opera/whatever would be easy and painless there would be something ready by now. There isn't? So it have to be harder than just downloading sources and setting up gcc.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 24 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 20-May-2003 04:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (José):
I've used to put my money where my mouth is.

But I would like to control of what kind of moz port gets the money, etc.

For example:
- 10% for the first AOS running version (revieved and selected out of all possible variants, this variant get's the rest of the funding, so that the R&D stays focused)
- another 15% when there's no enforcer hits any more
- 25% after it's reviewed to be a usable version
- 25% after it has been reviewed to be at least on the level of the current IB in functionality, satbility and in speed
- 25% after one year of bug fixing & user support

Or something like that. Every body who contributes the money should have his/her say in how the money is paid.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 25 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 20-May-2003 04:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Emil Oppeln Bronikowski):
The pot is already @ $2150.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 26 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 20-May-2003 04:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (priest):
And ... the same way I would be willing to spend $1000 for IB development, if there is any chance of reaching current netscape/moz feature level in reasonable time...
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 27 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 20-May-2003 04:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (priest):
Everyone that donates will have a say in what direction this project goes. We pay the programmer, we set the rules.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 28 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-May-2003 04:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (priest):
I think Priest hit the nail on the head.

Rather than try to port Mozilla over (with all the inherant problems that will cause) why not target the fund to the Ibrowse team so they can speed up development.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 29 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll on 20-May-2003 04:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (James Carroll):
Okay, people seem to have skimmed through my last post and not actually read it properly..

Mozilla for AmigaOS exists, in a very early form. Refer to post 22 for more details.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 30 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-May-2003 04:30 GMT
What is the real purpose?

A good browser? There are others that are easier to port and others that are on Amiga now that could be improved.

The Mozilla suite? i.e. email, composer and browser or just the browser?

What OS? 3.1? 3.9? 4.0? (AROS? Morphos?)

PPC only? 680x0?

I like the earlier suggestion to port the Gecko engine or khtml to a library or maybe some kind of huge datatype. I've heard that khtml is not so bad.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 31 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 20-May-2003 04:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Anonymous):
http://www.discreetfx.com/AmiZilla.html

Has all the info you are seeking.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 32 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Syke on 20-May-2003 04:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Bill Panagouleas):
If I could pay A Inc. $50 for a virtual T-Shirt, I can cough up some money on this too. $20 donated.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 33 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan on 20-May-2003 05:11 GMT
I second to Priest. Even a partly PPC native IBrowse with further development of html/js/flash handling is easier and in my opinion wiser option than porting Mozilla. And naturally I will donate bucks only if it will be available for both, AmigaOS4+ and MorphOS.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 34 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 20-May-2003 05:20 GMT
Yes, I agree that MorphOS and OS4 are the most important targets in
the Amiga world right now. There may already be some efforts in
mozilla development and they should contact Bill to let him know the
status and get an extra cash bonus if they complete the
project... :)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 35 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by José on 20-May-2003 06:02 GMT
Hi. I thought about it and I agree with Priest too in certain points. The donator should be able too control wich port he wants to donate too (AOS3.9 not the same as AROS or MorphOS I suppose).
And in the end will it be worth it? This will probably have an impact on existing Amiga webbrowsers. I know I would like to see IBrowse become updated, it's a small, fast browser that's kinda unique, so the question raises, why not donate to IBrowse team directly. Just my opinion.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 36 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 20-May-2003 06:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (José):
This makes A lot of sense. I love IBrowse like many Amiga users but it is lacking many key features. I think a port of Mozilla on the Amiga would make the IBrowse and Voyager teams work harder on their product. Also, people just don't respect an OS if it is lacking well know web browser like Netscape. Netscape on Amiga OS/MorphOS will help it grow! Donating to the IBrowse team can be a good thing as well, it will motivate them to upgrade IBrowse, it still needs many things but it is a great browser, no disrespect.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 37 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 20-May-2003 06:15 GMT
A very good initiative. This may have a serious impact on ppl reconsidering a return to the platform.

But don't expect Mozilla to be as fast as IBrowse on the same machine. (IB is much simpler) A 68K port will give the best performance under Amithlon, while the OS4/MOS version will have a decent hardware anyway.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 38 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 20-May-2003 06:21 GMT
Why just offer the cash to someone porting Mozilla? Why not just say "The first person to get a browser with GOOD support for DHTML, XHTML, CSS, and Flash". That way you are giving the IBrowse, AWeb and Voyager teams an incentive.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 39 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 20-May-2003 06:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Leki):
Opera 7.11? Seven Eleven? "Thank heaven" etc? Silly buggers HAD to land on a version/revision number like that eventually :-)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 40 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by zeigerpuppy on 20-May-2003 06:48 GMT
I agree with Peter (post 38). The end usability is the most important thing and, to be honest, Mozilla is bloated and less user friendly than some other browsers (Opera for example). OK, so people like to know they will have the same experience between platforms and sites with security are a big issue (the banking sites for instance) but we need to ensure that we offer the best incentive and support for existing Amiga Programmers.
Well, anyway... great to see some positive direction, well done to all concerned.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 41 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 20-May-2003 06:51 GMT
Hey Bill and others;

Here's another great idea. 2000 dollar reward for the first person porting OpenOffice!

It think that on the Amizilla project and the OpenOffice one if that should happen, the most important rule must be a good well documented and clear codebase to continue development.

Crap source code will not make that happen.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 42 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 20-May-2003 06:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Bill Panagouleas):
The problem I see in either funding the Amiga-browser developers or in thinking a Mozilla-port could "motivate" them in increased development of their browsers is that I suppose it's also rather a problem of lack of time. The community is that small already that I wonder if there are even enough programmers left with enough time for something like this. Take Zapek, for example - with his work for Ambient, etc., I doubt he has the time to in parallel also bring V3 and MD2 really up-to-date. (Although I'd really like to see MD2 supporting SMTP-Authentification...)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 43 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 20-May-2003 08:25 GMT
MozillaFirebird for Win32 is a 6.8mb *zipped* download.
Voyager is barely a 1.0mb archive.

I have used MozFB on Win32 and it seems nice enough, but is it 680% nicer? I know which I would like to see updated for Amigas.

Hey, this gives me an idea - if we all donate $50 to Amiga Inc. then maybe they will code a new version of the Amiga *OS* for us?

(I am a "club member", so that isnt trolling!) :)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 44 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 20-May-2003 08:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (catohagen):
Pot now @ $2211 and growing, please help make Netscape for Amiga possible.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 45 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 20-May-2003 09:13 GMT
I would rather suggest a more general phrasing, like defining what latest
standards the browser should support (bug-free)in order to receive the funding.
That way IBrowse/Voyager are also in the fray (and perhaps Mozilla is still
easier/faster to get to that point, I don't know - but at least that instills
motivation for all parties).

Set up some "jury" of well-known (non-controversial) Amiga people to judge who
get the price. Do it NOW and tell everyone exactly how things is going to be
handled. Trust me, if things can get nasty, they will - you will want to
have all practicalities and formalities on paper by that time (it's potentially
a lot of money after all). You don't want any doubts soiling this nice
initiative. If plenty of money is donated, why not sponsor several different
needed projects?

"The Amiga community scholarship"? ;-)
.
SlimJim
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 46 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 20-May-2003 09:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Peter Gordon):
Your great suggestions have been added to the site. Thanx for submiting them.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 47 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 20-May-2003 09:55 GMT
This is very noble and generous initiave I think. I just hope that people can form a good team and are not trying to make it all alone.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 48 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 20-May-2003 10:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Bill Panagouleas):
Great! Note that I will only contribute cash if it is for anyone bringing an up-to-date standards compliant browser to AmigaOS, be it Mozilla or IBrowse 3.

The reason is simple. In my view, I really think functionality is more important than where the browser source code came from. I just want a more up to date browser on AmigaOS.

(The fact that I already think IBrowse is vastly superior to Mozilla in terms of user interface and footprint is somewhat secondary. ;)
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 49 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 20-May-2003 10:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Bill Panagouleas):
Oh yeah, forgot to say in that last post; well done for putting up the initial cash for this! Its great to see someone actually doing something that might get a result instead of just whining on message boards, and I hope that this venture is a success.
$1000+ to the first person who ports Mozilla to AmigaOS : Comment 50 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 20-May-2003 10:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Peter Gordon):
"Why just offer the cash to someone porting Mozilla? Why not just say "The first person to get a browser with GOOD support for DHTML, XHTML, CSS, and Flash". That way you are giving the IBrowse, AWeb and Voyager teams an incentive."

That should be "the current version of Flash". Voyager has Flash support but it is so old that it is not very useful.
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