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[Web] 1GHz A1 ratedANN.lu
Posted on 28-May-2003 09:19 GMT by DaveP77 comments
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(From AmigaWorld.net) The A1 Benchmarks page has been updated with a 1GHz A1 system. A1/Pegasos Benchmarks

Now I want to know if its just overclocked or something that can be bought off the shelf...

1GHz A1 rated : Comment 1 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 28-May-2003 07:54 GMT
Nice!! Although I could do without the athlon there... I realise it's just there for reference, but it's depressing :)
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 2 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Radfoo on 28-May-2003 08:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (T_Bone):
It must be the normal XE@800Mhz overclocked to 1Ghz. Probably 133Mhz X 7.5, which should be possible with extra cooling.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 3 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 28-May-2003 08:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (T_Bone):
I was going to suggest that a more up to date Athlon should be tested. The 1800+ is no longer a current model - the bottom end is now "2100+", which I guess has a clock speed of around 1.6 GHz.

List and prices here
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/30869.html
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 4 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 28-May-2003 08:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (T_Bone):
I know what you mean, although it whups it on OGR but thats hardly a fab indicator.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 5 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-May-2003 08:38 GMT
Mmmmm, shame they only tested the G3 to 1GHz. Am interested to know what a G4 clocked to 1GHz (if possible) would achieve. Also noted that the G3 600MHz Pegasos tested virtually identically to the G3 600MHz A1; not knowing much about these tests, do they simply reflect processor capacity, or do they also reflect motherboard capabilities as well?
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 6 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 28-May-2003 08:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
They're benchmarks; they don't really reflect anything at all in any useful way :)
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 7 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-May-2003 08:47 GMT
Why is the G4 so slow ? I remember to have heard it would be 3-4 times faster than the G3. Is it any better at all for normal use, ie. integer performance (compilation, not games) ?
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 8 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shumer on 28-May-2003 08:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (DaveP):
Hey, Amigas have NEVER been this close to PC performance before! :-)

Ian
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 9 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shumer on 28-May-2003 08:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Ian Shumer):
Depressing would be comparing say, an 040 or an 060 to the Athlon!

;-)

Ian
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 10 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Cluke on 28-May-2003 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Ian Shumer):
Au contraire, I believe when the A4000 was first released, the 040 models were comparable in speed to contemporaneous PCs (if not even faster!)
They were however, quite a bit more expensive, and the PCs soon outstripped them in speed. Oh for what could have been!
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 11 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-May-2003 09:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Anonymous):
the g4 has less cache etc than the 750FX, so yes, it's almost only when utilizing altivec it's faster
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 12 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 28-May-2003 09:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Ian Shumer):
See here for relative speeds in 1991

http://amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8807&forum=8
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 13 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 28-May-2003 09:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Ian Shumer):
"Depressing would be comparing say, an 040 or an 060 to the Athlon!"

Actually I do that all the time, as I have an A4000/060 sitting next to an Athlon 1700+ Amithlon.

It's surprising how well the A4000 holds up. It's fine for non-critical stuff like email, word processing, even DTP and browsing. The Amithlon really shows its advantages on audio and 24-bit image processing.

The A4000 has a much better keyboard and a very superior trackball, which makes it nicer to use.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 14 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 28-May-2003 09:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Ian Shumer):
> Depressing would be comparing say, an 040 or an 060 to the Athlon!

An inspiring benchmark would compare the new AmigaOnes and the Pegasos against the 060. :)
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 15 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-May-2003 09:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
> the g4 has less cache etc than the 750FX, so yes, it's almost only when utilizing altivec it's faster

What about cpu-to-memory bandwidth ? Same between G3 and G4 ? What clock frequency will the G4 card for the Pegasos 1 have ? And, finally, is the planned new Pegasos 2 a considerably faster environment for the G3/G4 or about the same as the MAI-based Pegasos 1 ?
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 16 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 28-May-2003 09:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
And if anyone claims it is, rather than just saying "yes" can we have a constructive discussion with references to real technological comparisons and not just cheeseman coming in and saying "well Bill Buck said it is, and I believe him" please.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 17 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by koan on 28-May-2003 10:11 GMT
"All tests were done under Linux"

I look forward to the day when that reads:

All tests were done under AROS.

koan
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 18 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 28-May-2003 10:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (DaveP):
True, when saying A is faster then B one should be able to say "because..." :)

It could be more cache, faster mem interface, whatever, but it would be nice to specify these things when awnsering that one :)

Cheers
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 19 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 28-May-2003 10:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Anonymous):
No, the real difference is the altivec and because of that fpu performance. The G4 isn't that much better than a G3... there should have been a G5 for a long time then you think about the small difference of them.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 20 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Jim Forbes-Ritte (AGAfaster) on 28-May-2003 11:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Radfoo):
I mentioned this on AW, but a swift recce on the IBM site (search on 750Fx) shows that this part is rated at up to 1GHz anyway. it will also deal with a motherboard speed up to 200MHz according to the notes.

(link will follow)
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 21 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Jim Forbes-Ritte (AGAfaster) on 28-May-2003 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Jim Forbes-Ritte (AGAfaster)):
Yur Tiz...

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/newsletter/oct2001/new-prod1.html

(scuse the lingo, I'm off to Devon for a fortnight's holiday - Alas, without me miggy :-( )
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 22 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 28-May-2003 11:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (T_Bone):
And then again compare with 68k code running on WinUAE and Amithlon on that Athlon :)
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 23 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 28-May-2003 11:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Jim Forbes-Ritte (AGAfaster)):
No, no 750 FX at 1 Ghz were ever produced in volume.

IBM had a problem with that which is why they shrunk the die-size and produced the 750 GX which goes up to 1.4 Ghz.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 24 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 28-May-2003 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
@Anon,

you didn't ask if its possible to bring a G4 to 1GHz???...I assume you mean overclock the 800MHz to 1.0GHz, cause you know apple sells G4's in dual 1.42GHz models, and upgrade card makers sell 1.3GHz already for Macs...and in bigger volumes than the AmigaONE.

We are stuck in the pay too much for 800MHz, precisely because we have proven ourselves to be a captive market, and the powers that be are just shooting the fish in the barrel.

Now, someday, I hope to buy an AmigaONE, but right now, I'm pricing an A4000...
I need a real Amiga for my latest hobby project, but other than that, I'm mostly happy with Amiga Forever, and its fast....
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 25 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 28-May-2003 12:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Hagge):
"No, the real difference is the altivec and because of that fpu performance."

If you look at the bottom of the page, you will see that the Altivec unit was not involved in these tests.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 26 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 28-May-2003 13:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Don Cox):
> "No, the real difference is the altivec and because of that fpu performance."

> If you look at the bottom of the page, you will see that the Altivec unit was > not involved in these tests.

I read Ben's comment too and thought the same thing. On reflection, he was refereing to an earlier comment asking/stating the poster though the G4 was considerably faster than the G3. With that comment in mind, what Ben said makes perfect sense.

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 27 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 28-May-2003 13:09 GMT
These benches are pointless for me because they are not based on day to day use.
I don't think a majority of people are going to run CPU centric applications all day long on Linux on these machines. If so an x86 is the obvious choice for the best price/performance.

Something interesting would be how these systems (AmigaOne/OS4, Pegasos/MorphOS, x86/Amithlon) compare to each other and to a 68060 amiga when running applications. It is not always easy to measure but it would be much more interesting.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 28 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by sutro on 28-May-2003 13:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Ian Shumer):
>Hey, Amigas have NEVER been this close to PC performance before! :-)

You mean for the past 10 years. We all remember the era when 68040 ruled and Amigas were actually used doing the rendering for 3D work.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 29 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-May-2003 13:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Ian Shumer):
PC has not always been as fast as it's now :) When 030 040 and 060 accelerator were released Amiga was quite close to the PC of that time. But as we know fastest CPU used in m68k accelerator is 060 50Mhz. And AmigaOS always allowed more power for the user than MS-DOS or windows :)
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 30 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-May-2003 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Ian Shumer):
There was nothing like Athlon when 040 an 060 were released :) 040 was ahead of the competition, 060 was fast when comared to x86 of that time. Vut as i said fastest m68k CPU used in Amiga were 060 50mhz, and 66mhz in Apollo accelerators.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 31 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-May-2003 13:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
> And AmigaOS always allowed more power for the user than MS-DOS or windows :)

Nevertheless, the Pegasos could be a bit faster. Aside from use with MorphOS, I'd also like to use it with Linux as TV recorder, for divx recording and playback (real-time capture and encoding). Networked and noiseless and small, it would be a terrific multimedia node in a network. But at only 600 MHz ? 1.4 GHZ would be great.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 32 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Darren on 28-May-2003 14:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Christophe Decanini):
I've run AmigaMark on my Amithlon system and compared it with a 600MHz G3 Pegasos module. My Athlon XP @ 2.0 GHz with DDR400 memory blows away the 600MHz G3, but I guess that is to be expected.

I'd like to see sufficiently fast PowerPC cpu's up against a fast Athlon.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 33 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-May-2003 14:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Don Cox):
"The A4000 has a much better keyboard and a very superior trackball, which makes it nicer to use."

A superior trackball is called a "mouse". God, I hate trackballs. ;-)
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 34 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 28-May-2003 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
"A superior trackball is called a "mouse". God, I hate trackballs. ;-)"

You may not have tried a good one. The Marconi model (long ago discontinued) uses a real pool ball, and the inertia allows you to whizz around the screen at high speed. It is also built like a tank and will probably last for 50 years.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 35 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 28-May-2003 14:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
Your better off going with an intel based system for such a procedure (freevo/mythtv) and many other PVR efforts already up and functioning under linux, and X86 provides the raw cycles you need for such things at a substantially cheaper cost.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 36 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by gfx on 28-May-2003 15:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
The logitec marble mouse USB is a nice (optical) trackball
way better then the stuff that was availble in the past...
it does work with my pegasos.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 37 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 28-May-2003 15:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Darren):
You can not compare native code execution and JIT (particularly on tied code tests).
For example some 68k Amigamark tests will run faster on a Pegasos with JIT than the same test in Amigamark PPC on the same Pegasos.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 38 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-May-2003 16:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (MIKE):
> Your better off going with an intel based system [...] provides the raw cycles you need for such things at a substantially cheaper cost.

Sure, but in spite of investing a lot of money (water-cooled etc.) I can't get it noiseless. The Pegasos in my network runs without a single fan, takes up little space, has optical audio-out, and could be positioned directly next to the other home cinema equipement. Best of all, I know how to program it inside-out. Now, if only there was a 1.4GHz CPU for it.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 39 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 28-May-2003 18:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Anonymous):
"Now, if only there was a 1.4GHz CPU for it."

Then it wouldn't be silent. That is the dilemma.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 40 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-May-2003 19:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Don Cox):
> Then it wouldn't be silent. That is the dilemma.

What would be the watt figures for 1+ GHZ PPC variants ? In my PC, a very hot pre-Palomino 1.4 GHz CPU from AMD, probably somewhere in the 65W-75W range, can be cooled without noise. Or rather, with the "noise" produced by an Eheim pump. A snail makes more noise, no way to tell if it's on or off without touching it. But it's my working system and loaded with components, 200 GB raid array etc. These components not only make noise, there is also no way to get away with a fanless power supply. The Pegasos, OTOH, is connected to a power supply that doesn't even start its fan with the load of a Pegasos/600. The fan kicks in at 65W (says the label). Couldn't a faster PPC system be build within that margin ?
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 41 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by alles_freaks on 28-May-2003 19:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (T_Bone):
depressing?
the athlon is weak if you look at it the "results per mhz" rating way (no to mentoin watts per result rating ,lol) :)
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 42 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by NorthWay on 28-May-2003 20:38 GMT
Maybe I missed it, but what compiler and what switches were used for these tests?
(gcc has been a bit better x86 tuned in the 2.xx series than for PPC)
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 43 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-May-2003 21:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (alles_freaks):
> the athlon is weak if you look at it the "results per mhz" rating way

No, it's actually pretty good. Isn't that the reason why they have this strange rating ?
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 44 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Darren on 29-May-2003 01:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Christophe Decanini):
Do you have a JIT Pegasos module? I'd like to compare it with Amithlon.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 45 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Jim Forbes-Ritte (AGAfaster) on 29-May-2003 06:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
I found 3.7 Watts at 800MHz, and an estimated 5.7 Watts at 900MHz.
Piffling compared to 65-75 Watts ! (what is the clock on that Thermithlon ?)
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 46 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Pecosbil on 29-May-2003 06:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (NorthWay):
They were compiled with GCC-3.2. I can't remember the switches (and I can't check it either 'cos I don't have my A1 here with me) but both PPC and X86 binaries were compiled with the same switches...
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 47 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 29-May-2003 06:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
The Athlon performs well against the P4 cpus below the 3GHz mark. XEON or P4 with hyperthreading blows most Athlons I've seen right out of the water. But a basic dual-athlon system (motherboard + 2 cpus) can be had for the price of a medium fast P4, so it boils (literally) down to whatcha gonna pay for. Anyway, a colleague just bought a dual 2.8GHz XEON. Dang fast, but you gotta yell at him in his office for him to hear anything ;-)

My AmigaOne G3-SE isn't even close to performing like that, but at least it is quiet :-)

The ideal home cinema doesn't make noise, that's for sure.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 48 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-May-2003 09:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Jim Forbes-Ritte (AGAfaster)):
> I found 3.7 Watts at 800MHz, and an estimated 5.7 Watts at 900MHz.

Wow, that sounds very good. The 1 GHz CPU from VIA (neremiah or something like that, I mean their small itx board) needs 27W. For the full board though, with CPU, VGA etc. But since a 10W version of the CPU is announced for next year, the CPU itself obviously needs more than 10W.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 49 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-May-2003 09:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Olegil):
> The Athlon performs well against the P4 cpus below the 3GHz mark.

I think the Athlon would also perform well above the 3GHz mark, if there was such a CPU. But there isn't, the AMD "3 GHz" CPU is a 2.1 GHz CPU.
1GHz A1 rated : Comment 50 of 77ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 29-May-2003 10:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Anonymous):
"I think the Athlon would also perform well above the 3GHz mark, if there was such a CPU. But there isn't, the AMD "3 GHz" CPU is a 2.1 GHz CPU."

The AMD "3 GHz" CPU as you call it is called AthlonXP3000+ because it's a quick (rough) comparison performance wise to the Intel 3GHz part. Therefore the AMD device clocked at 2.1GHz is 'equivalent' to Intel 3GHz.

That's the naming convention for you.

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
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