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[News] OS4.0 on tourANN.lu
Posted on 01-Jun-2003 07:48 GMT by Uros Bogataj85 comments
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On Saturday, 7th of June the tour will start in Ljubljana, Slovenia. Event will be in BOF center in BTC City, ljubljana from 11:00 AM to 7:00 PM. You are all invited to attend the event. On Saturday, 7th of June the tour will start in Ljubljana, Slovenia. Event will be in BOF center in BTC City, ljubljana from 11:00 AM to 7:00 PM. You are all invited to attend the event. The show in Slovenia being first one in a row of shows across the Europe, I hope would have to offer the same excitement and the same grade of novelty as later shows. But if not so, I'm still glad we are first to show new things and to open the tour is honour to our club - Amiga racunalniski klub D.A.D.,Kranj, Slovenia. If you already know that you would attend the show in Slovenia please visit our web site at www.amiga-klub.si and send us registration.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 51 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 02-Jun-2003 00:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous):
Let me hear your definition then.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 52 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 02-Jun-2003 00:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Faggotboy):
AmigaOS4.0 Feature Set:
http://os.amiga.com/os4/OS4FeatureSet.php

AmigaOS4.0 will be one of the biggest AmigaOS upgrades ever, maybe even THE biggest. It's not even comparable to what H&P did with the old 3.x series (AmigaOS3.5 & AmigaOS3.9).
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 53 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 02-Jun-2003 00:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (samface):
"In software development, a beta test is the second phase of software testing in which a sampling of the intended audience tries the product out. (Beta is the second letter of the Greek alphabet.) Originally, the term alpha test meant the first phase of testing in a software development process. The first phase includes unit testing, component testing, and system testing. Beta testing can be considered "pre-release testing." Beta test versions of software are now distributed to a wide audience on the Web partly to give the program a "real-world" test and partly to provide a preview of the next release."

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci211654,00.html
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 54 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 02-Jun-2003 00:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (samface):
Somewhat lighter definition from The Jargon Dictionary:

"beta     /bay't*/, /be't*/ or (Commonwealth) /bee't*/ n.     1. Mostly working, but still under test; usu. used with `in': `in beta'. In the Real World, systems (hardware or software) software often go through two stages of release testing: Alpha (in-house) and Beta (out-house?). Beta releases are generally made to a group of lucky (or unlucky) trusted customers. 2. Anything that is new and experimental. "His girlfriend is in beta" means that he is still testing for compatibility and reserving judgment. 3. Flaky; dubious; suspect (since beta software is notoriously buggy).

Historical note: More formally, to beta-test is to test a pre-release (potentially unreliable) version of a piece of software by making it available to selected (or self-selected) customers and users. This term derives from early 1960s terminology for product cycle checkpoints, first used at IBM but later standard throughout the industry. `Alpha Test' was the unit, module, or component test phase; `Beta Test' was initial system test. These themselves came from earlier A- and B-tests for hardware. The A-test was a feasibility and manufacturability evaluation done before any commitment to design and development. The B-test was a demonstration that the engineering model functioned as specified. The C-test (corresponding to today's beta) was the B-test performed on early samples of the production design, and the D test was the C test repeated after the model had been in production a while."

http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/b.html#beta
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 55 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 02-Jun-2003 05:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (samface):
"AmigaOS4.0 will be one of the biggest AmigaOS upgrades ever, maybe even THE biggest. It's not even comparable to what H&P did with the old 3.x series (AmigaOS3.5 & AmigaOS3.9)."

It is at least as big a jump as the one from 1.3 to 2.0 (which was originally going to be called 1.4).
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 56 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 02-Jun-2003 05:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Don Cox):
I don’t think so, the transformation from OS3.9 (68k) to OS4.0 (ppc) requires grate planning to be successful, the integration of JIT emulator, transformation from hardware depends to HAL, the support for SMP, the support for MP, in OS4.0 they are rewriting every thing that means some thing, support for a wide range of hardware, most of cosmetics is all ready done in OS3.5 and OS3.9,

while transformation from 1.3 to 2.0 is just bug fixes and cosmetic stuff.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 57 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 02-Jun-2003 05:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Anonymous):
Which means that my definition was a bit vague rather than incorrect. There's obviously nothing wrong with saying that debugging means you're in beta status since beta testing is probably the best way of finding bugs. You're nitpicking rather than raising a constructive debate.

BTW, you obviously didn't know the correct definition yourself since you had to quote from a dictionary. I specificly asked you to tell me *your* definition, now you've ruined all the fun. :-P
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 58 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 02-Jun-2003 06:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Kjetil):
> while transformation from 1.3 to 2.0 is just bug fixes and cosmetic stuff.

Thats not really true. The interface was dramatically updated in both cosmetic and functional terms. A whole new version of the filesystem was introduced. The shell was upgraded. Workbench was greatly improved. Taglists were introduced to make further improving the operating system easier. The graphics and intuition library APIs were extended. There was a lot more, too. I suggest you download the 2.0 NDK and read the changelog ;)
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 59 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 02-Jun-2003 06:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (samface):
>Which means that my definition was a bit vague rather than incorrect. There's
>obviously nothing wrong with saying that debugging means you're in beta status
>since beta testing is probably the best way of finding bugs. You're nitpicking
>rather than raising a constructive debate.

No, you said: "This means that the rest is a matter of pressing the "compile" button and start debugging. A development project that has entered the debugging phase is the definition of beeing in "Beta" status."

An application is still far from being in beta state if it's still awaiting it's first compile. Let's call it an early alpha.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 60 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 02-Jun-2003 06:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Peter Gordon):
I have under stated the OS1.3 to OS2.0 changes to prove my point, every thing done from OS1.3 to OS2.0 you can mostly say about OS3.9 to OS4.0 and that comes easy translated in the feature list of OS4.0.


// The graphics and intuition library APIs were extended
OS4.0 has extended API it even has new API for PPC apps.

// A whole new version of the file-system was introduced
Amiga OS4.0 added the support for UDF (DVD file-system)

// Taglists were introduced to make further improving the operating system easier
Amiga OS4.0 taglist is extended, and are used in the OS.

// The graphics and intuition library APIs were extended
Amiga OS4.0, intuition library extended and improved.

The hole point is that every thing done in OS3.1 can be easy translated in to changes in OS4.0. the OS3.1 changes can only be considered as miner changes at best, and you can’t simply count the number of lines in the feature list some features are harder to make and more important then otters.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 61 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 02-Jun-2003 06:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> We're making your nightmare come true.

Oh no, please, no more bug ;-(((
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 62 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 02-Jun-2003 07:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Kjetil):
"The whole point is that every thing done in OS3.1 can be easy translated in to changes in OS4.0. the OS3.1 changes can only be considered as miner changes at best, and you can't simply count the number of lines in the feature list some features are harder to make and more important then otters."

It's hard to understand what you are trying to say here.

Do you mean that AOS 4 is hardly improved at all from OS 1.3 ?
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 63 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Jürgen Schober on 02-Jun-2003 07:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Don Cox):
We have at least 2 A4Ks, one should be a PCI driven Desktop, the other is a 4KT. Other event's might have (more) backup machines, yes.

cheers
Jürgen
point.design
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 64 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Jürgen Schober on 02-Jun-2003 07:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (takemehomegrandma):
>Another Swarzenegger line: It is noot a tuumooaaa ;-)

To add another one: I'll be back. Hasta la vista, Baby ;)

cheers
Jürgen

(BTW: Schwarzenegger is Austrian, too ;)
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 65 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 02-Jun-2003 07:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Don Cox):
// It's hard to understand what you are trying to say here.

Well I made some mistake in my comment typing “OS3.1” where “OS1.3 to OS2.0” should be.

// Do you mean that AOS 4 is hardly improved at all from OS 1.3 ?

NO!! I’m SAYING THAT THE IMPROVMENTS IN OS1.3 to OS2.0 is not worth talking about that can be compeered with some miner upgrades.

The pint is that the most features are improved even more in OS4.0, and any miner change in any otter release can not make up for the big changes from rewriting every thing to support the new API in OS4.0 and the extreme change of going from 68k to PPC is just extreme, advanced feature like VM, MP, SMP, requires a lot of thinking and good developers to proper implement, not to say that it’s impossible for any one else to do the same, it will only take longer time if you are one novice it will take about 80 years or so, harvesting the right minds with right experience is extensional, this is not a one man job.

I have always seed that they never where any chance of them meting the dead line; I understand the feature list it is way I select OS4.0 over MorphOS any day of the year.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 66 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 02-Jun-2003 08:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (darklite):
>An application is still far from being in beta state if it's still awaiting >it's first compile.

Misinterpretations, misinterpretations, misinterpretations...
*sigh*

Now, who said that I was talking about something that was still awaiting it's first compile? Again, all preparations for doing the first compile is complete, everything is in C and has been made GCC 100% compatible. I was talking about debugging the compiled binaries, not the debug output while compiling. There shouldn't be much to debug while compiling since it already compiles fine for the 68k. If any problems, they would have to be processor related. C is a rather processor independant language, remember?
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 67 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 02-Jun-2003 10:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (samface):
If something compiles successfully it's *FAR* from being working.

But then again, you're not a developer, how could you know... You even have no clue what betatesting means.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 68 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 02-Jun-2003 10:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Faggotboy):
So you are you saying that Aminet tools are bad? And that AmigaOS4.0 bad because it adapted some good ideas from Aminet?

There are lots of good Aminet tools, and gadgets, to bad some of them are just hacks.
I prefer to have all the tool I need at one place in side the OS will integrated whit out any hacks.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 69 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 02-Jun-2003 11:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Anonymous):
His only comment was that if it compiles and *WORKS* on m68k, then it should not be that far from working on PPC too. I guess you missed that the components are actually tested after beeing built, not just compiled with no errors.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 70 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 02-Jun-2003 11:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Anonymous):
Exactly. Now, enough said about this already.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 71 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 02-Jun-2003 11:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (samface):
"A development project that has entered the debugging phase is the definition of beeing in "Beta" status."

This is still complete nonsense, no matter how you twist it.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 72 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 02-Jun-2003 12:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Anonymous):
Just drop it - this is totally off-topic and I for one am sick of the constant picking at any of Samface's comments.

Ian
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 73 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 02-Jun-2003 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Anonymous):
You and Sandface are on different topics, way can’t you se this?

Sandface is taking about OS4.0 recompile to PPC easy or not easy,
while you are taking about defining beta stage.

And found your comment really aggressive and not nice what do you have against Sandface?
While Sandface is trying to explain to you what is topic is on comment 66, you just continue with you childish muck throwing at common 67, what is your game?
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 74 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 02-Jun-2003 12:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Anonymous):
>"A development project that has entered the debugging phase is the
>definition of beeing in "Beta" status."
>
>This is still complete nonsense, no matter how you twist it.

Of course it is, but it's pointless arguing over. He'll still be saying the same thing 6 months from now. If he wants to call OS4 "Beta" even though they haven't even started porting it to PPC yet just let him.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 75 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 02-Jun-2003 13:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Lando):
But you see, I never called it Beta. All I ever said was that I find Ben Hermans estimate that the project would soon be in beta status to be plausible.

Some people seem to be so convinced that everything I say is wrong that they would say that I'm wrong even if I said that gravity makes things fall downwards. You would probably say something along the lines "That's hilarious Spamface, everybody knows that gravity is pulling things downwards rather than falling".

I'm sorry for whatever horrible thing I ever did to you. I don't know what that might be but I'm sure it has to be something truely evil.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 76 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by CY on 02-Jun-2003 13:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Kjetil):
> some features are harder to make and more important then otters

LOL
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 77 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 02-Jun-2003 15:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (CY):
You don't think so?
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 78 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 02-Jun-2003 16:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (samface):
Obviously you have no clue about gravity at all .. gravity is what's causing your *perception* of downwards... ;)

Yesyesyes, sorry, I just had to! ;)


- CISC
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 79 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 02-Jun-2003 16:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
You're right. But then, one definition does not neccessarily have to exclude the other. My definition would be that gravity is the force pulling things towards the center of a planet rather than just something defining your perception of which way is down. :-P
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 80 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 02-Jun-2003 16:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Samface):
The point was that you cannot define something by anything that is a direct effect of it .. either way, gravity has nothing to do with downwards or planets, gravity is simply the attraction of masses, even you have gravity...

Ahwell, we are way off topic now, let's stop the sillytalk now... ;)


- CISC
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 81 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 02-Jun-2003 18:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Anonymous):
>Just drop it - this is totally off-topic and I for one am sick of the constant
>picking at any of Samface's comments.

Makes one wonder, no? Perhaps the problem lies with Samface.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 82 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 02-Jun-2003 19:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (darklite):
No, as far as I can see, its mostly just jumping on the bandwagon and/or trolling, no?

Ian :-)
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 83 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 03-Jun-2003 05:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (darklite):
Yes, the problem is me. It's always the one with an alternative view on things that is the problem, right?

1. Do I act immature and call people names?

2. Am I blatantly trolling rather than trying to raise a debate and listen to reason?

3. Am I anonymous?

I'd say these three characteristics fits well on certain individuals here. However, I simply don't see how this would fit the description of me and if you claim otherwise; prove it. I would gladly apologize for any wrongs I've made.

The reason for me often beeing involved in the flame wars is probably because I'm not afraid to stick out my neck (in contrary to certain anonymous cowards around here). If there would be something wrong with doing so, that would be nothing but pure suppression and a success on the behalf of the anonymous trolls.
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 84 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 03-Jun-2003 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (samface):
>I'd say these three characteristics fits well on certain individuals here.
>However, I simply don't see how this would fit the description of me and if you
>claim otherwise; prove it. I would gladly apologize for any wrongs I've made.

Ok, let's settle this the 'mature' way.
You buy me a beer if OS4 isn't available to the public 6 months from now. If it is, I'll buy you one ;)
OS4.0 on tour : Comment 85 of 85ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 03-Jun-2003 15:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (darklite):
I'll drink to that! =)
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