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[News] Hyperion OS4 BPPC SurveyANN.lu
Posted on 02-Jun-2003 22:04 GMT by Mikey_C151 comments
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As Amiga OS4 for AmigaOne and CSPPC based machines nears completion, Hyperion is undertaking a survey to gauage demand for the BPPC version

Therefore if you are an Amiga1200 owner with a Dual Blizzard PPC card and would like to see OS4 ported to this machine, please send an email to: timdg@hyperion-entertainment.com Please note: Ensuring that OS4 will work on the BPPC is a momumental task which will require enormous effort in both Time and Money. Therefore only email us if you have every intention of purchasing OS4 for BPPC.

Your support is very much appreciated in this matter.

Ben Hermans.
Hyperion-Entertainment

Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 51 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Xeyes on 03-Jun-2003 07:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (samface):
Samface, take a hint and clam up. This thread isn't here for you're little flamwars with CSPPC/OS4 customers.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 52 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 03-Jun-2003 07:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Xeyes):
AGAIN, *I* did not bring the subject into this thread and I will respond to FUD, regardless if it is off-topic.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 53 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 03-Jun-2003 07:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (samface):
If not people, at least Samface :)
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 54 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by AmosHaxor on 03-Jun-2003 07:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (samface):
"Hey, YOU claimed that the chipset couldn't be trusted, not me. If you make such claims/statements, EXPECT people to respond."

Liar, I said *I* don't trust it. I will NOT get into it HERE, got it? If you want a flamewar, START A NEW #$@#@ THREAD and I'll enlighten you there as to my PERSONAL reasons why.

I will *NOT* be attacked because *I* personally made a decision based on *MY* research! You got a problem with that? TOUGH.

The only reason I said ANYTHING AT ALL was because YOU ASKED.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 55 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 03-Jun-2003 07:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (AmosHaxor):
Just ignore him, you have your reasons and that's good enough. You don't need to explain your decisions to the world, and you're right, this isn't the place.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 56 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 03-Jun-2003 07:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (samface):
> AGAIN, *I* did not bring the subject into this thread and

Actually, you did. You accused BBRV of changing his mind, which he denies.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 57 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by James Sellman on 03-Jun-2003 08:17 GMT
(What I'm posting here is just stuff that I have gathered from other sources. I'm not part of the OS4 kernel development team, nor am I a good enough coder to be able to be, so please take it with a grain of salt.)

As I understand it the BPPC's design is completely alien to the CSPPC, and it uses some software routines on the 68040/68060 for some things that are done with hardware logic on the CSPPC, for things like handling interrupts and such.

User space software works great on both cards because they both run userspace code near-identically. That's why all your WarpOS/PowerUp/etc. software works great on both...

But stuff that bangs the hardware (iFusion, and of course an OS including AmigaOS 4.0) doesn't work right on it unless written with support specifically for this stuff. IIRC (and I could be totally wrong) the card bootstraps initially loading PowerUp right away just to get things like interrupts working so the card functions at all -- and WarpOS still relies on this bit of code to work.

In any case I don't know for sure if this is a 100% accurate explanation of the problem (again this is just from second-hand stuff filtered through my frazzled memory at 4AM) but basically it will take a good deal of work to get OS4 working natively on the BPPC, time that could conceivably spent on improving the OS on the platforms it already works on instead.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 58 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jun-2003 08:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (JoannaK):
"For future reference, what else you are planing NOT to support?"

What do you mean by that ? If there is not enough people who want bppc version of OS4 then why should they spend money for it ? AmigaOne etc are much important now anyway. It would be nice to have bppc version of OS4 but if there is not enough bppc users who want it then it's better not to support bppc.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 59 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jun-2003 08:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
m68k + PPC cpu maybe ? :) BPPC cards do have one m68k CPU (040 or 060) and one PPC 603 CPU.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 60 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 03-Jun-2003 08:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (samface):
Well, saying "I didn't trust the chipset, for reasons we need not discuss here" is a perfectly valid statement that doesn't need to be backed up, because it doesn't say it _can't_ be trusted, just that he doesn't trust it. Unless I misread that and he said it _can't_ be trusted, in which case he should take it back and/or rephrase it ;-)

But this still ain't the place for that discussion.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 61 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jun-2003 08:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (JoannaK):
You are again talking bullshit. Hyperion has never promised that there will be OS4 for the BPPC. They have said that there *MIGHT* be version for the BPPC. There has always been quite small group of BPPC users because BPPC was much more expensive than eg. 060. BPPC is also much more hack than CSPPC.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 62 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 03-Jun-2003 08:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Anders Kjeldsen):
If I would say something like "I have reasons for believing that MorphOS is illegal", do you think the post would be left unanswered? You see, what the claim/accusation is about is irrelevant.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 63 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jun-2003 08:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (AmosHaxor):
What do you have against people who are over 30 ? :D
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 64 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 03-Jun-2003 08:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (AmosHaxor):
You also said that you have had contact with one of their former contractors and got it confirmed. I wish you had, but you did NOT leave it at just "I have my reasons". Even better would have been if you didn't say anything about it to begin with.

Yes, I asked because it was a natural follow up on your wish for AmigaOS4 on the Pegasos. Was the question really such a surprise to you?
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 65 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jun-2003 08:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Anonymous):
Yep, if you own BPPC now is your chance to tell Hyperion you want OS4 for it :)
I have never had enough money for the BBPC, but if enough people want OS4 for it then we might see it.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 66 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 03-Jun-2003 08:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (T_Bone):
See the post which the post you are refering to was a response to. I did NOT bring the supposedly ArticiaS issue into this thread, period.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 67 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jun-2003 08:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Olegil):
It can't be trusted because you idiots screwed up your port of Linux. If there were any competent people involved in the AmigaOne Linux port then maybe (we don't know) there wouldn't be a problem any more.

If all the members of the A1 Linux project 'sign' a message on ANN admitting that they're not competent to do OS work and they need help from a third party, then I will consider fixing the bugs for $1000. Otherwise you can just live with the knowledge that your incompetence and hubris is destroying other people's data.

Alternatively if Alan, who's responsible for shipping this unfinished and non functional port to paying customers, owns up that the people he trusted have done a bad job, I'll consider a similar offer from him.

No more sweeping things under the carpet, people need to know that Amiga stands not just for expensive, poor quality hardware, but also for poor quality software.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 68 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Xeyes on 03-Jun-2003 08:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (samface):
You won't rest untill you've chased everyone away from OS4, will you? You "asked" him why a Pegasos with Morphos wasn't good enough for him, and he answered you, and said he didn't want to get into it here. Must everything be a flamewar with you? He did his damnedest to avoid one, but you're freaking relentless in your persecution. If you want to know why, why not start a new thread like he suggested?
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 69 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 03-Jun-2003 08:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Anonymous):
I think thats enough BS from you and Samface for one day. Can you exchange e-mail addresses so we can drag this back on topic.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 70 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jun-2003 08:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (DaveP):
Well said DaveP.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 71 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 03-Jun-2003 09:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (oRBIT):
I tend to agree.

IMO there's far more BPPC in the wilderness than CSPPC so far. A1200 PPC turbo boards were cheaper and a lot of Amigans owned an A1200.

I'm wondering if this question is not hiding another problem, such as for example the lack of documentation on the BlizzPPC (and of course, in this case, I doubt that the "Evil BPPC camp" will give any). This is an hypothesis, not a fact nor an affirmation. Thx for not shouting at me.

Again, IMO and insist on this IMO, missing the BPPC is synonym of lower sales until the version of OS 4 for Aone is ready (end of the year ? early 2004 ?)
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 72 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 03-Jun-2003 09:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Xeyes):
He didn't answer my question about why he wanted OS4 instead of MorphOS on the Pegasos, instead he started to talk about ArticiaS problems. That is not an answer to why he wants OS4 for his Pegasos rather than what is already available for it. What I was asking about was perfectly on topic since we are talking about what hardware we would like to run AmigaOS4 on, right?
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 73 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 03-Jun-2003 09:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Ben Yoris):
Another question :

could any of the MOS team here confirm if porting MOS to BPPC costed a lot more money and efforts ?

That would be an interesting answer. Maybe the difference of design between MOS and OS 4 explains the difference, but I'd like to know a bit more.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 74 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 03-Jun-2003 09:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Xeyes):
"Did his damnest to avoid one"... LOL!
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 75 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by AmosHaxor on 03-Jun-2003 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Anonymous):
"It can't be trusted because you idiots screwed up your port of Linux. If there were any competent people involved in the AmigaOne Linux port then maybe (we don't know) there wouldn't be a problem any more. "

There's nothing wrong with the linux ports. Leave the SW guys alone, they're doing a fine job. It took the Tratech guys twice as long to come to the same conclusion. Eyetech arn't the only people to run linux on this hardware, you know. I wish them luck, but I still think the CSPPC is for me :) (unless Eyetech change their mind about the A1-ClassicAmiga bridge, that would have been cool!)
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 76 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 03-Jun-2003 09:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (samface):
> "Did his damnest to avoid one"... LOL!

Will you knock it off already?
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 77 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 03-Jun-2003 09:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (T_Bone):
Hey, one can't even have a good laugh anymore? :-P

I'm sorry if my "fight FUD wherever and whenever it shows it's ugly face" attitude is annoying for you. All I can say is; tough.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 78 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 03-Jun-2003 09:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Anonymous):
Let me get this straight: for 1000 USD you are able to "fix" this "poor hardware" using software?

If that's the case, it does seem to me that the hardware isn't so poor after all.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 79 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by AmosHaxor on 03-Jun-2003 09:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (samface):
"He didn't answer my question about why he wanted OS4 instead of MorphOS"

Liar, you're LYING again. I DID NOT say I wanted OS4 instead of MorphOS on the Pegasos.

"instead he started to talk about ArticiaS problems."

I mentioned *NO* ArticiaS problems. You're LYING again.

"That is not an answer to why he wants OS4 for his Pegasos"

I already ANSWERED that. I will NOT get into the reasons here. PERIOD.

"rather than what is already available for it."

LIAR, never said that.

"What I was asking about was perfectly on topic since we are talking about what hardware we would like to run AmigaOS4 on, right?"

So you ADMIT you changed the subject to hardware, when *I* was talking about "AmigaOS4."
You don't HAVE to know MY reasons for wanting to run AmigaOS4 on my PPC, it's MY PPC.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 80 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 03-Jun-2003 09:28 GMT
For the record, the reason why we want to have an idea in the intrest of OS 4 for the BlizzardPPC is simply because the A1200 has a ton of strange hardware hacks available for it like clockport adaptors, Mediator, ZIV, Zorro 2 slots, Zorro 3 (Mikronik), PCMCIA etc.

This means quite a bit of testing and possibly quite a few drivers might break.

That's the main difficulty, it's a support nightmare.

You can't really tell people that suddenly their ethernet card or soundcard doesn't work anymore.

Or at the very least you need to be able tell them "this and that hardware works, everything else is not supported".
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 81 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Jupp3 on 03-Jun-2003 09:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (samface):
>He didn't answer my question about why he wanted OS4 instead of MorphOS on the Pegasos

Not sure, but is this the comment, you're refering to? "Peggy G3/G4 version welcome." (Comment 37)

No matter how many times I read that, I just can't see, where you got the idea, he wanted to have "AOS 4 instead of MorphOS"

Instead, my translation would be having MorphOS and _possibility_ to have _also_ AmigaOS 4 when it's ready.

(Keyword here is "possibility")
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 82 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jun-2003 09:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (samface):
Why should he tell you that ? If he want's OS4 instead of MOS it's his own opinion. I don't think people should explain why he like something more than something else.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 83 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jun-2003 09:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Anonymous):
should = must
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 84 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by AmoxHaxor on 03-Jun-2003 09:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"Let me get this straight: for 1000 USD you are able to "fix" this "poor hardware" using software?
If that's the case, it does seem to me that the hardware isn't so poor after all."

:D

Maybe while he's at it he could make an offer to fix iFusion code too :D

CSPPC rules! Best Amiga hardware I've ever owned. No probs. OS4 ready. iFusion works :D
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 85 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 03-Jun-2003 09:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (AmosHaxor):
No lies, my friend. You mentioned having AmigaOS4 for your Pegasos, I didn't. You mentioned ArticiaS, I didn't. You claimed to have verified the rumours about the ArticiaS by a former contractor, I didn't. ALL of these things are off-topic and obvious flame bait.

No, I didn't ask wether you were satisfied with your AmigaOne or not. All I ever asked was the simple question "why AmigaOS4 for the Pegasos?" which does NOT in any way justify your FUD about the AmigaOne. End of story.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 86 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 03-Jun-2003 09:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (samface):
...and people think I bang on too much.

( yes I do )
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 87 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 03-Jun-2003 09:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Jacek Piszczek):
"Wasn't OS4 supposed to be a PPC OS?"

If you look at the feature list, you will see that OS4 has been carefully written to be as easy as possible to port to any CPU and hardware.

We will not be stuck on a discontinued line of CPUs again.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 88 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 03-Jun-2003 10:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (samface):
"BTW, how old was that contractor? :-P"

He probably had to be not only under 30 but also white, Anglo-Saxon and Protestant to be trusted by that poster.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 89 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 03-Jun-2003 10:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Ben Yoris):
"I'm wondering if this question is not hiding another problem, such as for example the lack of documentation on the BlizzPPC (and of course, in this case, I doubt that the "Evil BPPC camp" will give any). "

It's quite possible that the designers no longer have full documentation, or never did. The product seems to be a bit of a hack, and it may well be that nobody really knows how it works.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 90 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 03-Jun-2003 10:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Don Cox):
>> It's quite possible that the designers no longer have full documentation, or never did. The product seems to be a bit of a hack, and it may well be that nobody really knows how it works.

Just ask JoannaK - apparently she knows everything ;-)
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 91 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by AmosHaxor on 03-Jun-2003 10:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (samface):
"No lies, my friend."

Another LIE, on two levels.

"You mentioned having AmigaOS4 for your Pegasos, I didn't."

LIE, I didn't make the "Peggy G3/G4" comment, check again. *I* have REPEATEDLY stated I want to run AmigaOS4 on my CSPPC. You are a LIAR.

"You mentioned ArticiaS, I didn't."

You asked. I said I wouldn't get into it, and I didn't. You keep WANTING me to get into it, I DONT.

"You claimed to have verified the rumours about the ArticiaS by a former contractor, I didn't."

What rumor? I said I *SPOKE* to a former contractor, I did *NOT* tell you what he said, so ANOTHER LIE by you, we're up to almost a dozen now. For someone so concerned about FUD, you certainly do outright LIE quite often.

"ALL of these things are off-topic and obvious flame bait."

Which I've REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU. yet you INSIST on talking about them.

"No, I didn't ask wether you were satisfied with your AmigaOne or not. All I ever asked was the simple question "why AmigaOS4 for the Pegasos?" which does NOT in any way justify your FUD about the AmigaOne. "

WRONG, when you ASK a question, you JUSTIFIED the answer. I However, kept the response brief, and deliberately kept it free of flamebait, and said NOTHING bad about the ArticiaS. In fact, I REFUSED to even when you kept on PRESSING the issue. If you'd like to talk about the ArticiaS, start another thread.

"End of story."

ANOTHER lie, and everyone here KNOWS it because you won't LET it be the END of the story, you'll post again, you know you will, liar.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 92 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jun-2003 10:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
No, for whatever price I choose I can fix the problem(s) Ole Egil, your engineers and MAI's engineers have been too incompetent to fix. Part of the price I've chosen at this time is the public humiliation of these idiots.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 93 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Xeyes on 03-Jun-2003 10:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (Anonymous):
What about Tratech's engineers? And Terrasoft's engineers? If you can do what 4 hardware companies so far have failed to do, you should be asking more than $1k you modest software guru you :)
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 94 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Xeyes on 03-Jun-2003 10:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Don Cox):
> He probably had to be not only under 30 but also white, Anglo-Saxon and
> Protestant to be trusted by that poster.

Are you saying he's a racist, or that BBRV is of an inferior race?
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 95 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by MarktTime on 03-Jun-2003 11:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Mikey_C):
@MikeyC

I don't have time to read 94 plus comments, but I read long enough to read
your ATROCIOUS response to JoannaK.

PEOPLE bought EXPENSIVE BUSBOARDS, and they bought EXPENSIVE BLIZZARDS
and they bought EXPENSIVE GRAPHICS CARDS, believing their A1200 was
going to RUN OS 4. Even I bought a towerized A1200 recently, believing
I had an OS 4 upgradeable machine.

Now, its gone from a done deal, to we are CONSIDERING OS 4 for blizzard????

You defending Hyperions is OUTRAGEOUS....its SICK....
this type of behaviour, now being displayed by Hyperion, is pure AMIGA INC.
TWO PEAS IN A POD.

I just bought a towerized A1200, as soon as it arrives, I'm selling it again.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 96 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 03-Jun-2003 11:16 GMT
@ MarktTime

Please show me where Hyperion have stated that they would do a BlizzPPC version of OS4.

And feel free to email me the Specs. and the price for that A-1200 IF you really wants to sell it :)
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 97 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 03-Jun-2003 11:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (MarktTime):
I thought originally, that OS4 wasn't even going to be available for the classics. (I wasn't paying too much attention at that time I admit)
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 98 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jun-2003 11:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (MarktTime):
Uh, Hyperion didn't manufacture the board, market the board, and then abandon it. You have Phase5/DCE to thank for that. Hyperion is under no more obligation to support the BPPC than they are to provide at-home repair service for your Chevette. Assuming that they would and then going off when they don't is just childish. You might as well be posting infuriating comments about Microsoft not supporting the board.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 99 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Deniil on 03-Jun-2003 11:34 GMT
Please don't spend time on the crappy BPPC!
Concentrate on AmigaOne first, then CSPPC and later (after a few boing-bags and stuff) you can start considering BPPC.

I have a BPPC but I will never ever run OS4 on it, I just would't. I will get an A1 with OS4, and it if fails (never comes or something) I will get a Pegasos with MOS but never OS4 on this piece of hack I'm writing this post on right now.
It wouldn't work to full satisfaction anyway and the motherboard access to the A1200 mobo from a BPPC is so extremely slow (600-700ns) and it will not be any different with the PPC doing the access to HD's, PCMCIA, clockport, etc.
Hyperion OS4 BPPC Survey : Comment 100 of 151ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 03-Jun-2003 11:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (MarktTime):
@MarkTime:

But they never said that there was definately going to be a BPPC version. They said CSPPC now, A1 later, then maybe BPPC. Thats all I ever recall them saying.
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