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[News] Pegasos II price!ANN.lu
Posted on 04-Jun-2003 15:17 GMT by Alkis Tsapanidis (Edited on 2003-06-04 17:45:37 GMT by Christophe Decanini)154 comments
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The Pegasos II price has now been announced.
The options are the following: G3 at 299 and G4 at 499 (Tax excl.).
Additionally there's the option to exchange the Pegasos1 with a
Pegasos 2 with a G4 at the expense of 200E or buy the G4 card alone
at the same price.

More info at: MorphOS-News.de
Pegasos II price! : Comment 101 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Jun-2003 08:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Anonymous):
Yes it was me, i'm getting slightly miffed with the way the community is going, and i'm not a person with infinite amounts of patience.

I say what i think, if you don't like, sorry

Amon_Re
Pegasos II price! : Comment 102 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Jun-2003 08:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Olegil):
You're welcome :)

Cheers
Pegasos II price! : Comment 103 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 05-Jun-2003 08:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Amon_Re):
You posted with my nick then .... ;-)
Pegasos II price! : Comment 104 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Jun-2003 08:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Neko):
Well, if you do decide to go for it Neko, i wish you the best of luck.

Cheers
Pegasos II price! : Comment 105 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Jun-2003 08:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (DaveP):
Oh sorry, my mistake, i tought he refferenced to post 91.

My humble apologies :P

Cheers
Pegasos II price! : Comment 106 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 05-Jun-2003 08:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Neko):
"Of course I couldn't pay the rent selling it because I could never buy enough
and sell them and get any substantial profit without consultancy tacked on the
side (for instance, designing custom solutions for people, more than just box
shifting) which would stop me from being at the shop front."

The big problem seems to be the rates rather than the rent. If you are in a good location, the rates will be very high.

One thing to consider if it is a boutique style shop is to be on the first floor, above another shop. Fact is, there's no easy way to make money.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 107 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by roghal on 05-Jun-2003 10:01 GMT
huh, the price sounds nice, but i won't buy it cause of os. I wonder how much time it'll take till BBRV Ainc & rest of the f****g Amigaworld will understand that only 1 (one) system will survive? I [& lots of Amigans I know] WANT to USE the REAL computer. I want to work on lightwave & few other gfx progs ! Where can i do it? on morphos??? [on kray? ;) ] the divide of our small market is just a MURDER for our community. My gruop'll release few games in some near future. I HATE mothaphuckin' port things for x versions of Amiga systems. We cannot change the past -things are like their are now - but PLEASE for God sake make some deal. It's obvious that Morphos/OS4'll go different way - and it's obvious that community in general will lost many fine apps, which could be ported -but they'll not because of too little userbase [50% less i.e].. I've got enough this f*ckin ami-civilwar! I've been sittin' on Amiga last 10 years - and I've got enoug when I see this sick situation. IF YOU CAN'T TALK/DEAL WITH EACHOTER THEN F*CK OFF. BESIDE THAT YOUR STYLE OF "TALKING" ON THIS MATTER [some kind like ^%#@* politics, sometimes like children in sandbox] MAKES ME TO PUT YOU ALL [Genesi/Ainc] TO wINDOWlike STYLE OF DOING people. huh, thats enough
Pegasos II price! : Comment 108 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 05-Jun-2003 10:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (roghal):
Sorry, but I think that Lightwave does not run properly on any system without
the chipset but somebody could correct me on that, as there are a few patches
around.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 109 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 05-Jun-2003 11:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>Sorry, but I think that Lightwave does not run properly on any system
>without the chipset but somebody could correct me on that, as there
>are a few patches around.

I think Lightwave runs ok on the Draco, which is sans-chipset.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 110 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 05-Jun-2003 11:21 GMT
Actually LightWave "stand alone" version works ok
(with a few "non-serious" problems) on my Pegasos. :)
Pegasos II price! : Comment 111 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by smp266 on 05-Jun-2003 11:23 GMT
My cousin bought a PC 12 months ago and has not bought a single game for it. He only uses it for Internet and Spreadsheets. Recently when installing a tv tuner card the Windows XP installation crashed and corrupted the hard drive. Only a format a reinstall got it working again.

If you can sell people like my cousin on the merits of PPC you can increase the user-base. Also a lot of people may be after a 'second system.' One that does things better than MS.

It is not fanaticism, just a dislike of MS. In fact the only time I've had no trouble with MS is Windows 95 on a Pentium 100. Office 2k is the only other piece of software that actually worked without crashing.

Everytime I use to run the Amiga I would get tons of stuff done. On the PC I barely get everything installed before some annoying small bug develops.

I'm glad I didn't get A1 intitially, because the Aussie $ exchange rate is a lot better now.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 112 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 05-Jun-2003 11:28 GMT
If I would have considered the price an issue, I would be happy with the x86 based computer that I have today. If looks would be my main priority, I would've gone Mac a long time ago. Here's the deal; I want an Amiga with AmigaOS because I'm an Amiga fan. I don't want something else even if it would cost only 2 cents and looked like a ferrari.

Asking me to consider a clone is like asking a Hells Angels member to consider bying a Honda instead of a Harley Davidson. No, that's not fanaticism, it's just a hobby for me. If it wasn't a hobby but a matter of a need, why consider something Amiga related in the first place?

I guess Amon_Re and I are on the same page on this issue.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 113 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 05-Jun-2003 11:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (DaveP):
> In Reply to Comment 85:
> @Dammy
>
> So have you bought a Pegasos and used MOS yet?

Nope, I have playied with MOS but I have not bought a Peg yet. With the $299 option, that may change.

> I am using AOS4 to make this post.

Ah, so your not just a A1 Linux user but one of Hyperion's special beta guys or a dev. Now I see *why* your so anti-Genesi. Thanks for confirming this. =)

Dammy
Pegasos II price! : Comment 114 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 05-Jun-2003 11:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (dammy):
I have made no secret of the fact I run the beta. Mentioned it several times before.

However that is not why I am so, as you put it, "anti-genesi".

Dave.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 115 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 05-Jun-2003 11:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (DaveP):
@DaveP

I see where you're coming from... Jesus, what is it that makes people assume everybody is in one camp or another?! I'd run Pegasos and AmigaONE if I could afford both, but I can't afford either!

The simple fact is that BB pisses a LOT of people off in public forums.

Ian :-)
Pegasos II price! : Comment 116 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Blixth on 05-Jun-2003 11:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (samface):
Samface wrote :

"I want an Amiga with AmigaOS because I'm an Amiga fan. I don't want something else even if it would cost only 2 cents and looked like a ferrari."

Who isn't an Amiga fan ?, that's why I support the best coders there is in our community. Call them what you like, if the MOS-team and previously Phase5 (G. Carda & T. Knaebel) hasn't been there, our world had collapsed 10 years ago.
They keept the Amiga alive with their RTG, 060/PPC-accellerators and more.

My Pegasos feels more Amigaish than a relabeled product by an outsider ever will. Just my 2 euros...


"Asking me to consider a clone is like asking a Hells Angels member to consider bying a Honda instead of a Harley Davidson. No, that's not fanaticism, it's just a hobby for me. If it wasn't a hobby but a matter of a need, why consider something Amiga related in the first place?"

If that's not fanatism, check out the word stupidity or blind follower in the nearest dictionary.


Stefan 'Develin' Blixth, OnyxSoft
Pegasos II price! : Comment 117 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 05-Jun-2003 12:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Stefan Blixth):
Does anybody EVER read what Samface writes?

"Asking me to consider a clone is like asking a Hells Angels member to consider bying a Honda instead of a Harley Davidson. No, that's not fanaticism, it's just a hobby for me. If it wasn't a hobby but a matter of a need, why consider something Amiga related in the first place?"

Is it so difficult to understand that he wants a computer that can run AmigaOS, rather than a clone? I can pretty much guarantee that 99% of people who are still interested in Amiga also use a PC/Mac regularly. The simple fact is that SOME people don't want to run MorphOS, they want to run AmigaOS. The sooner Genesi sort out licensing for OS4, the better IMO.

Ian :-)
Pegasos II price! : Comment 118 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Blixth on 05-Jun-2003 12:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Ian Shurmer):
Well he specifically wants, as he says "Amiga with AmigaOS", why does he even enter a thread about Pegasos if he isn't going to be satisfied with an Pegasos with AmigaOS ? =)

Kind regards
Stefan 'Develin' Blixth
Pegasos II price! : Comment 119 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 05-Jun-2003 12:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Stefan Blixth):
Well, just because some programmers are talented, does that make them Amigans? In that case, quite a big chunk of the entire IT industry is actually Amigans.

I don't doubt their skills, it's just a matter of concluding that it's not Amiga. Just like I don't doubt the skills of Honda's engineers, their still not making Harley Davidson motorcycles.

I think you're making a mistake by equalizing "Amiga" and nicely engineered hardware/software. I respect your opinion that it feels "Amiga" to you, all I'm doing is concluding that it isn't "Amiga" when looking at it objectively.

I disagree that MorphOS feels "Amiga" like, all I see is a commercial version of AROS for PPC + an integrated 68k emulator. But please note, that is my opinion rather than a fact.

AmigaOS4 seems more like a "genuine" rewrite based on the real sources, I really don't see who anyone could argue with that. As I am an *Amiga* fan, this feel of authenticity is of outmost importance to me. But then again, that is my point of view. Let's just agree to disagree, ok?
Pegasos II price! : Comment 120 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 05-Jun-2003 12:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Stefan Blixth):
We are talking about the pricing of the Pegasos, right? All I ever did was explaining why it still doesn't make it an option for me. I really don't see how that would be "off-topic".
Pegasos II price! : Comment 121 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 05-Jun-2003 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Stefan Blixth):
By the very same reason that some MorphOS folks appear on AmigaOS4 threads...
Pegasos II price! : Comment 122 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by zimmy on 05-Jun-2003 12:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (samface):
just to let you know, Sonny Barger rides a BMW....get with the times
Pegasos II price! : Comment 123 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 05-Jun-2003 12:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (zimmy):
Get with the times? If I wouldn't be stuck in 1985 I probably wouldn't be an Amigan. :-P
Pegasos II price! : Comment 124 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 05-Jun-2003 13:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (samface):
I disagree that MorphOS feels "Amiga" like, all I see is a commercial version of AROS for PPC + an integrated 68k emulator. But please note, that is my opinion rather than a fact.
--

Of course, that's no fact OR opinion, it's pure misinformation and proof that
you haven't even tried it.
And... about the coders... Respect ex-Phase5's work, or don't use OS4, we would
even *THINK* about it right now if they didn't exist, or if they did they right
thing, staying out of the "market".
Pegasos II price! : Comment 125 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Jun-2003 13:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Stefan Blixth):
Nitpicking... :)

Cheers
Pegasos II price! : Comment 126 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Jun-2003 13:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (zimmy):
Who?

Cheers
Pegasos II price! : Comment 127 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Jun-2003 13:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Well, i have toyed with MOS in the past, but personally, when it comes to the first impressions i had, it was missing something, it just didn't feel like an amiga to me, agreed, the time i spent toying with is was rather short, but it did lack a certain something.

Yes, it's highly subjective, and yes, it's heavilly influenced by the way i've used (or abused) AOS over the last decade, but to me it felt like a 3.1 system with all sorts of MUI hacks thrown in, and not well organised, maybe that's just the default install, or someone elses preferences that i've used, but it just didn't feel right

Cheers
Pegasos II price! : Comment 128 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by roghal on 05-Jun-2003 13:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Anonymous):
Hey! What version of Lightwave you mean? 5.x ??????? Are you mad ?? If amigans/morphos freaks are proud to run lightwave 5.x on their brand new machines... well, welcome to mid-'90 !!! What would you do nowadays with IT ?? people like me [believe me, i know few;)] just want the AMIGA with enough strength to build strong platform & USE it, and not just onanizing while seeing some transparent menus or nativePPC icon editor !!!! I want computer to work, not watching OS on it ! And for that reason Amiga MUST have 1 system -it'll be much easier then.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 129 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by roghal on 05-Jun-2003 14:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (roghal):
Besides, the f****d up on all amiga webs amiga inc, at least have any PLANS for future & they're quite clear. What path the morphos goes? Now they want to build OS based on previous AmigaOS with cutting their Amiga roots -isn't sounds a little schizofrenic? You were talking about ATARI - lets just ask some real [there is a little] ATARI man - how much do they have/had operating systems on IT ?? And what - is that man happy with such a diversity ??? ATARI is [almost?] gone [I mean computer/os] - Isn't IT a BIG lesson to all Amiga community????
Pegasos II price! : Comment 130 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 05-Jun-2003 14:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Alkis, if my opinion is that elephants can fly, then that IS my opinion. Don't come here telling me what is my opinion and what isn't. AFAIK, AROS and MorphOS are both AmigaOS clones made using AmigaOS documentation and reverse engineering. The only difference !!!---> out of a user's perspective <---!!! is that they target different processors, have reached different stages of the development process, and that one of them is commercial while the other isn't.

Furthermore, yes I have tried MorphOS. What was that supposed to prove?

Whatever you do Alkis, please don't tell me what I've experience or not, neither what my opinions are. There is noone in this world that knows this better than me, ok?
Pegasos II price! : Comment 131 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by roghal on 05-Jun-2003 14:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (roghal):
btw: i'm not Aos4 tester or something - I'll buy for sure os4 'cause of its ideology & roots -with all respect to phase5, morphos programmers & so on -It's just abstraction now, but if they'd like to leave their child [morphos;)] -all the Amiga ppl should build some kind of great monument in honour to them ;). But seriously (?) I just consider Peg2 as a hardware -sorry BBRV [respect too -but this respect lowers in my & my people's eyes with every snaky comment you do on any amiga firm -what?...are you gods, that you can be toller than anyone?]
Pegasos II price! : Comment 132 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 05-Jun-2003 14:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
BTW...

>Respect ex-Phase5's work,

What part of "I don't doubt their skills" didn't you understand?
Pegasos II price! : Comment 133 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Blixth on 05-Jun-2003 16:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (pixie):
Pixie wrote :

"By the very same reason that some MorphOS folks appear on AmigaOS4 threads..."

I wish people for once could act mature and don't trash every thread regardless what so called "camp" they belongs to...
We are all here for the fun of it, and why should every thread that doesn't exactly cope with each opinium have to be desecrated to pieces ?

Well, I hope everything settles down a bit when OS4 is released.
I just loved to belong to this community in the past, now it's just turned
out to war between each other. And I'm not blaming someone special since both sides is equaly "guilty" of this. But I really can't understand why they still think it's fun to waste so f***ing much bandwidth and time of this sort of shit, when it can be used of much more creative things...

Kind regards
Stefan 'Develin' Blixth
Pegasos II price! : Comment 134 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 05-Jun-2003 16:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Hagge):
>I hope there will be a PPC970 version of the pegasos2 to, i need better integer
>performance for my compilations =P

Why, G4 has more Integer Units than PPC970 and also 2MB L3 cache vs. 0MB with
PPC970. Arstechnica slightly doubt it can beat the G4. :)
Pegasos II price! : Comment 135 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 05-Jun-2003 17:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Anonymous):
The PPC 970 has longer pipes, right? which means it will scale to much higher clock speeds, hell they might even hit 2Ghz in 2005 :-)
Pegasos II price! : Comment 136 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 05-Jun-2003 17:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (samface):
I'm not talking about their skills but the fact that they did more about the
Amiga than ANY Amiga company after Commodore.

Sorry about the opinion stuff, it was an overreaction.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 137 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 05-Jun-2003 18:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Ian Shurmer):
> Ian Shurmer :
>The simple fact is that BB pisses a LOT of people off in public forums.

The simple fact is that a lot of different people are pissed off by posts by people who are NOT Bill Buck too. For instance, some people probably think you are one of those guys who just mainly takes up space going after Bill Buck with varying levels of subtlety at varying times, while providing no real function otherwise. But if they are trying, they probably won't SAY THAT over and over or try to put you in a bind of some type.

It's probably better for everybody to not target other people repeatedly, not to antagonize them, put them into situations where they might respond in like tones. Then maybe everybody will start acting a little more polite, or at least stick to contending on ISSUES for the most part instead of spewing hate or personality antimatter ; }
 
 
>The sooner Genesi sort out licensing for OS4, the better IMO

It takes at least two parties to do this. Kind of like the above stuff. If people are offended by other people's reactions they too must not try to trigger or antagonize or make difficult simple discourse.

But we know damn well that there are plenty of points of contention that seem to trigger emotional states that have practically become habitual. Thus it goes...
Pegasos II price! : Comment 138 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 05-Jun-2003 21:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
All they did was hardware expansion boards, you know. Sure, the made very good ones, the best in the business. But let's not exaggerate things beyond that. There's alot more to a computer besides hardware.

Besides, it's not like they never failed to deliver things they promised. I remember a certain infamous "Caipirinha" chipset based A/Box computer with up to two PowerPC processors at speeds from 150 to 533MHz and a 64-bit processor bus speed at 100MHz. Not only did they release a detailed feature set of this at that time very impressive machine, it was also said that they would have an AmigaOS compatible OS to go with it. It was planned to be released sometime during the second half of 1997. I don't know what happened to it but somehow it was forgotten about.

Then in March, 1999, they announced G3/G4 accelerator cards for A1200 & A4000 owners for which they even accepted prepayments and kept on accepting up to the day they went bancrupt in September, 2000. I'm glad I wasn't one of those who prepaid since I doubt anyone ever got a refund.

But like I said, I don't doubt their hardware engineering skills. However, they, just like about everyone else in the Amiga business, has had their problems with marketing and cooperation on the Amiga market.

You know, this really pinpoints my biggest problem with Genesi et all; the lack of willingness to cooperate. There's really too much egoes around for such a small market. Yes, competition is a good thing(TM), but I really don't see how this would be helpful on a market which lost it's profitability so many years ago. It's like watching kids fighting over a few bread crumbs.

You may think whatever you like about Amiga Inc. but atleast they are cooperating. Eyetech has the hardware, Hyperion has the software, Amiga Inc. has the brand, together they can and will make this work. Genesi could have been a part of this team but they chose their own path. I'm still as of today so deeply sorry that they did and that this split among them now reflects on the rest of the Amiga community. I've seen what these kind of indifferences can do before, do you remember the H&P vs Phase5 wars? Well, it tore apart the entire Amiga PPC software industry (what was left of it, that is) and I'll tell you this; *nothing* good came out of it. I still, even as of today, have to reboot my PPC Amiga when I switch between different PPC applications. Tomorrow, I'll probably have to buy two different computers as well as operating systems if I want to be able to run all Amiga software. How could anyone possibly think of this as a good thing?

I was actually glad the day Phase5 went bancrupt. I thought; finally, perhaps we won't see anymore of these intrigues in the Amiga market anymore. It pissed me off real bad the day I heard that Amiga Inc. and bPlan was never going to cooperate. I will never forgive them for this. You see, I would never have bought a PPC card for my Amiga if I would've known about the poor software support for it. What I mean by this is that both the Pegasos and MorphOS are completely useless products to me as a user if they're not compatible with the rest of the Amiga market.

If Genesi would truelly care about the Amiga community, they would have sacrificed just about anything to cooperate. Trying to revive the Amiga market through competing is like trying to cure a headache by shooting yourself in the head. I doubt Amiga Inc.'s conditions's could have been that impossible since they seem to be the only ones having these problems with cooperating with them. Heck, Amiga Inc. is obviously even prepared to give away the AmigaOS IP in case of them ending up in insolvency. It is quite clear that these former Phase5 and VisCorp guys has no intentions of cooperating. I have no idea of what they think they are going to gain by doing this, but what I do know is that it is very unlikely something we as users will ever gain anything from.

A piece of my mind, take it or leave it.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 139 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 05-Jun-2003 21:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (Samface):
I'm just going to paste from another thread and add a bit at the end:

I'll tell you this: in months Genesi has fulfilled more pledges within Phoenix than Amiga Inc did in years, and they have hired and written contracts with many developers and supplied them with cheap or even free machines and supported their initiatives.

In my book, they are showing good faith, and putting their money where their mouth is, and treating others with respect.

This was also true of QNX, and is today as well.

And many users seem to agree that Genesi has their heart in the right place, alomg with their wallet.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 140 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 05-Jun-2003 21:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (greenboy):
Well, I'm not sure what you are refering to as "in the right place" as even Microsoft donates money and equipment for various causes. We all know Amiga Inc. doesn't have that kind of capital to simply give away and I really don't think they can be blamed for not beeing "rich". They are doing what they can with the means they have available, such as the Amiga developer's network for example.

Wouldn't it be better if Genesi would share their resources with the rest of the industry rather than just things that fits into their own agenda? I mean, it's not like anyone developing for AmigaOS4 on the AmigaOne will ever see that kind of charity from Genesi.

Besides, if it was only about which platform has the better price and support, you guys would probably be developing for Windows on the x86 by now.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 141 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 05-Jun-2003 22:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (greenboy):
BTW, 7 out of 8 news on the frontpage beeing MorphOS/Pegasos related tells me that they got their money's worth.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 142 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 06-Jun-2003 06:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Don Cox):
There are plenty of easy ways to make money.

Just none of them involve solely selling Pegasos boards.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 143 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 06-Jun-2003 06:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (Samface):
> Not only did they release a detailed feature set of this at that time very
> impressive machine, it was also said that they would have an AmigaOS
> compatible OS to go with it. It was planned to be released sometime during
> the second half of 1997. I don't know what happened to it but somehow it was
> forgotten about.

Oddly enough, the idea became reality after phase5 went bankrupt: The Pegasos
is as close to the A\Box as you get, bar the magic chipset, and MorphOS is
what Ralph Schmidt did based on the planning for the Amiga-compatible OS.

They dropped the A\Box at phase5 because there was no demand for it, and
definitely no support from Amiga Inc. at the time. Someone needed to solidify
a plan, and that plan had to be "move to PPC". Unfortunately, and a lot of
people blame Petro for this, there were NO attempts to clarify the processor
move. phase5 didn't want to go into making a PPC Amiga if Amiga Inc. turned
around later and said "we're going PA-RISC instead". Customers wouldn't buy
a box until Amiga spoke anyway.

Deadlock. The project was cancelled.

Eventually Amiga decided, and said "PPC is the way" and G3/G4 accelerators
were planned, but Amiga's indecision and lack of developer support hurting
sales, meant that phase5 was already on the way out.

> You know, this really pinpoints my biggest problem with Genesi et all

Genesi are perfectly willing to cooperate. What happens here is Bill Buck wants
every damned thing on this machine, because it makes it a better package. If
he could get AmigaOS 4.x then he would.

The problem is that Hyperion are dead against it in principle (don't believe
what they say.. it's not in their interest to screw Eyetech over like that) and
with Hyperion's history of 2-year stalls and delays in porting games (and slow
performance at the end of it), the core MorphOS team are seemingly reluctant
to give away all the information for the Pegasos port. Just think: Hyperion
give all that info to Eyetech, and it then takes 18 months for the Pegasos port
of OS4 to appear.. that's the worst case scenario.

Neko
Pegasos II price! : Comment 144 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 06-Jun-2003 06:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (Samface):
> Not only did they release a detailed feature set of this at that time very
> impressive machine, it was also said that they would have an AmigaOS
> compatible OS to go with it. It was planned to be released sometime during
> the second half of 1997. I don't know what happened to it but somehow it was
> forgotten about.

Oddly enough, the idea became reality after phase5 went bankrupt: The Pegasos
is as close to the A\Box as you get, bar the magic chipset, and MorphOS is
what Ralph Schmidt did based on the planning for the Amiga-compatible OS.

They dropped the A\Box at phase5 because there was no demand for it, and
definitely no support from Amiga Inc. at the time. Someone needed to solidify
a plan, and that plan had to be "move to PPC". Unfortunately, and a lot of
people blame Petro for this, there were NO attempts to clarify the processor
move. phase5 didn't want to go into making a PPC Amiga if Amiga Inc. turned
around later and said "we're going PA-RISC instead". Customers wouldn't buy
a box until Amiga spoke anyway.

Deadlock. The project was cancelled.

Eventually Amiga decided, and said "PPC is the way" and G3/G4 accelerators
were planned, but Amiga's indecision and lack of developer support hurting
sales, meant that phase5 was already on the way out.

> You know, this really pinpoints my biggest problem with Genesi et all

Genesi are perfectly willing to cooperate. What happens here is Bill Buck wants
every damned thing on this machine, because it makes it a better package. If
he could get AmigaOS 4.x then he would.

The problem is that Hyperion are dead against it in principle (don't believe
what they say.. it's not in their interest to screw Eyetech over like that) and
with Hyperion's history of 2-year stalls and delays in porting games (and slow
performance at the end of it), the core MorphOS team are seemingly reluctant
to give away all the information for the Pegasos port. Just think: Hyperion
give all that info to Eyetech, and it then takes 18 months for the Pegasos port
of OS4 to appear.. that's the worst case scenario.

Neko
Pegasos II price! : Comment 145 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 06-Jun-2003 07:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Anonymous):
"Why, G4 has more Integer Units than PPC970 and also 2MB L3 cache vs. 0MB with
PPC970. Arstechnica slightly doubt it can beat the G4."

WHICH 'G4' are you refering to?? It's not *a* chip, it's a range of chips.

And the L3 is practically useless, aprox 2% increase in speed of execution. The company I work for is pushing Motorola to release a white paper about L3 cache and its' effect on performance. Untill then, a customer faced with the spec of our board and a competitors board will choose the board with L3 cache (assuming all other specs are equal) - NOT because of the performance increase, but because it's a ticked box mentality. We have to continue to design L3 cache into our systems becasue of this ticked box mentality, not because of it's usefullness. The L3 cache does not offer the return for the effort put into it

"The tick box menatality - Argggh!" I'm sure you'll agree

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
Pegasos II price! : Comment 146 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 06-Jun-2003 07:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (Neko):
I don't have the time to respond fully at the moment but I'll atleast tell you this; that is still no explanation for why they should be doing their own thing, splitting the Amiga software and hardware market further. They are providing us users with two incompatible standards rather than cooperating and making the Amiga platform as one universal platform standard. "Divided we shall fall", you know...
Pegasos II price! : Comment 147 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 06-Jun-2003 08:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (MiniBobF):
Amen, brother.

There's a lot of things confusing to end users about the "G4". Everyone should remember that the G stands for "Generation", and it's really annoying when old people talk about young people based on which "generation" they are in. Well, duh. Am I in the same generation as my younger sister? Yep. Am I in the same generation as her friends? I hope not, according to what I hear they do with their spare time ;-)

All references to "Gx" where x is an integer should from now on be used for only very vague descriptions. Use the actual core name or chip number, just as you would with an Intel chip. Of course, Intel are doing it to us as well, calling theyr new P4 based el-cheapos "Celeron", which was originally an el-cheapo P2, right?

But either call the PPC chips by name, or use only "586" and "686" to reference Intel processors as well. Equally bad practice...
Pegasos II price! : Comment 148 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 06-Jun-2003 14:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (samface):
> I don't have the time to respond fully at the moment but I'll atleast tell
> you this; that is still no explanation for why they should be doing their own
> thing

It may not be the explanation you were looking for, but it's certainly the
truth.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 149 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 06-Jun-2003 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (samface):
And what should they do, Sam? Drop all the work they did for 3 years and waste
all the money they've put to it? Would you do that? They tried to cooperate with
Amiga Inc. but one side could not cooperate, practically demanding MOS for next
to nothing. That's not how it works. They started first, they won't stop just
to satisfy some people that do not like the competition.
Pegasos II price! : Comment 150 of 154ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Jun-2003 23:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (MiniBobF):
>WHICH 'G4' are you refering to?? It's not *a* chip, it's a range of chips. The G4 that fits my description? Hint: 745x family. >And the L3 is practically useless, aprox 2% increase in speed of execution. Oh, it was 3% for Eyetech, wasn't it? :) >The company I work for is pushing Motorola to release a white paper about L3>cache and its' effect on performance. http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G4CARDS/giga_designs_800_1ghz/index.html showssignificant performance jumps due to L3 cache for the 800MHz G4. Of course itdepends on the size and locality of your data/code.
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