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[Web] First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards productionANN.lu
Posted on 10-Jun-2003 18:39 GMT by takemehomegrandma54 comments
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If you follow the link you will find a first picture of the G4 CPU card production for the Pegasos. In this case it is a G4 1GHz. Note, that there hasn't been made a decision yet which CPU will be used (1GHz, 1.2GHz or 1.3GHz). Click here!

Source: morphos-news.de

First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 1 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 10-Jun-2003 16:59 GMT
nice :)

it looks quite large, anyone know the measurements ?
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 2 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 10-Jun-2003 17:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (catohagen):
two by four ;-)

The CPU looks amazingly small compared to the card.
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 3 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 10-Jun-2003 17:25 GMT
Are the shadows deliberately incorrect to fan the flames of conspiracy theorists?! :)

And yes, it is small, almost doesnt look real! But I am sure it is!
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 4 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 10-Jun-2003 17:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (catohagen):
>it looks quite large

Hehe, well that's because of the high resolution of the picture.

For example see this picture of the Pegasos which also might give you a wrong
impression about the actual size of the board:

http://www.bplan-gmbh.de/gfx/pegasos/top45.jpg
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 5 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 10-Jun-2003 17:35 GMT
The g3 pegasos 2 version will run also at 600Mhz or will run faster?
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 6 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 10-Jun-2003 17:48 GMT
It reminds me of that hand drawn picture of an A500 slightly sliced apart so you could see the chips underneath :-)

It doesn't look like a photo blown up, or one taken with a macro lens - perhaps thats a symptom of overdoing the colour reduction and retouching it later?
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 7 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by tim on 10-Jun-2003 18:26 GMT
Wow, 1 GHz is fast enough. Bplan & Mos Team this is a 1+++++++++++++

Congratulation.........
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 8 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 10-Jun-2003 18:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (tim):
What do you mean fast enough.. you sound delusional :)
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 9 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 10-Jun-2003 18:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (catohagen):
> anyone know the measurements ?

Seems to be the same size as the G3 module for the Pegasos I. Since from the picture it seems to be the the same ratio 1:2.

The G3 module is about 6:12 cm (as good as I could measure it right now with the computer running).
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 10 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by HammerD on 10-Jun-2003 18:38 GMT
The holes for mounting a fan/heatsink are in a weird position. If they were smart they'd make the mounting holes the same size as some of the X86 coolers out there. I wonder what cooling solution they will use ?
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 11 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 10-Jun-2003 18:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (HammerD):
X86 coolers are way too big (and way too effective) to G4 CPU.. those holes are right for certain types of coolers used on northbridges and Gfx chips..
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 12 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 10-Jun-2003 18:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (catohagen):
> anyone know the measurements ?

G3 module is 127mm x 60mm. I'd assume the G4 module has the same dimensions.
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 13 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Marktime on 10-Jun-2003 19:05 GMT
my take on this, is the picture isn't proof of the product's existence, what it is a very nice stylized picture of a CPU upgrade.

It could very well be based on a photo of the actual product, cleaned up and enhanced for web viewing...it's really nicely done, looks very good.

As for the pictures significance, it has none. Either you can buy one or you can't. Right now we can't, someday when you can, it will be quite obvious and you won't need a photo for proof. lmao
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 14 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 10-Jun-2003 19:06 GMT
Very good looking card.

It seems that it does not have L3 cache, right?
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 15 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 10-Jun-2003 19:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (HammerD):
> The holes for mounting a fan/heatsink

No fan! Heatsink only! That is at least how I interpret BBRV's answer (amont all the talk about rockets, pegs in space, etc ;-) ) to my question about this in:

http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1054634902&category=web&number=49#comment
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 16 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 10-Jun-2003 19:25 GMT
The shadows do look a little....odd. I guess multiple light sources which are close to the object would explain it.

As for the chip itself the dimensions are correct and it does mount rather high on the PCB.
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 17 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 10-Jun-2003 19:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (strobe):
Yeah. Apparently some ppl have never heard of professional photography before. :)
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 18 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 10-Jun-2003 20:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (priest):
Well.. I can't tell what's on bottom side of card, but on top side there does not seem to be chips for L3 cache.. Good thing is that with PegaII and MPX protocol support L3 is not so usefull anymore (not commenting Articia-s here). My advice is, if anyone want's Pega with G4 CPU, then it'll better be Pegasos II
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 19 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 10-Jun-2003 20:05 GMT
No L3 cache? Or has that been mounted on the back?
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 20 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 10-Jun-2003 20:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (JoannaK):
Yeah, the Marvel Discovery II is more suitable for G4's ...
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 21 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 10-Jun-2003 22:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Graham):
Maybe on the backside like all the AOne L3 cache? ;)
No, I think reduction of costs (200EUR upgrade - compare to Mac 3rd party prices
which are ~420USD for 1GHz G4 & 2MB L3 cache) and the reduction of the complexity
in designing that card combined with the enhanced 512KB L2 cache made them chose
this path and leave out the L3 cache (remember Eyetech complaining it gives only
3% better performance?). I hope it will run at least at 167MHz FSB clock in Peg2!
:^)
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 22 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 10-Jun-2003 22:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Crumb // AAT):
>The g3 pegasos 2 version will run also at 600Mhz or will run faster?

Genesi stated the 600Mhz G3 will remain the basis configuration for Peg2
(and it really isn´t too bad as long as there are no really demanding apps yet).
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 23 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 10-Jun-2003 23:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (tarbos):
tarbos wrote:

> Genesi stated the 600Mhz G3 will remain the basis configuration
> for Peg2 (and it really isn´t too bad as long as there are no
> really demanding apps yet).

That G3 uses less than one tenth the watts of the latest Pentium 4s, and this is something you might notice in your electric bill. It is a good thing for the environment too. My Pegasos and MorphOS boots very quickly and feels very very fast, so I don't think a power-guzzling CPU necessarily lead to a better or even faster feeling computer experience, although maybe there are certain tasks like number crunching, certain types of video processing, and hi-res 3D gaming where the MHz monster has the advantage.

Right now the G3 is capable of doing everything most computer users want to do.
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 24 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-Jun-2003 05:07 GMT
Nice, when will we see a review of this thingy?

Cheers
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 25 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 11-Jun-2003 05:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (JoannaK):
> Well.. I can't tell what's on bottom side of card, but on top side there does > not seem to be chips for L3 cache.. Good thing is that with PegaII and MPX
> protocol support L3 is not so usefull anymore (not commenting Articia-s
> here). My advice is, if anyone want's Pega with G4 CPU, then it'll better be > Pegasos II

The observant amongst us will notice the chip has 7447 writen on it... meaning the chip does not have external L3 cache bus. If there WERE any L3 cache chips on the PCB they'd be eye candy as they're not connected to this CPU!

MPx or 60x bus interconnect has nothing to do with L3 cache JoannaK.... there is a dedicated bus for cache. Also MPx bus is not limited to Disco II you know? Pegasos I has the ability to use MPx protocol.... assuming it works correctly.

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 26 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 11-Jun-2003 06:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Amon_Re):
> Nice, when will we see a review of this thingy?

The Pegasos G4 upgrade may be on display at AmiWest. Who knows, maybe the Pegasos II too?
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 27 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 11-Jun-2003 06:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (tarbos):
Well, a 2-3% speed increase at 30% more price isn't worth including an L3 cache anyway, so why bother?

Looks good, but I must confess to never having liked the slot. Yes, I have used slot based x86 cards.
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 28 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by DET Nicolas on 11-Jun-2003 06:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (MiniBobF):
Hi !

I don't know how you did to see "MPC 7447" however:

- 7447 has no L3 cache support
- but has 512 Kb of L2 cache where as others G4 has 256
- max bus speed of G4 is 166 (on Motorola and pomme site)

Moreover, I don't think that the ArticiaS can get the best of a G4. A better choise for the G4 module is Peg II.

Nevertheless, it's quiet usqeless t o speak about without:
- official press release
- comment from real user

Bye
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 29 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by DET Nicolas on 11-Jun-2003 06:44 GMT
About the frequency:

Choose the one which can work WITHOUT fan if possible !
Otherwise, I keep my G3!
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 30 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 11-Jun-2003 06:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (DET Nicolas):
DDR 333 :-)
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 31 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by DET Nicolas on 11-Jun-2003 06:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (takemehomegrandma):
Memory bus != computer bus

DDR = Double data rate ...
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 32 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 11-Jun-2003 07:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Olegil):
At some point barefeats.com managed to get Quake3 running about 20% faster when L3 cache was used.... (but yes, I know that according to Alan Redhouse & Motorolla, some G4's get only 3% ... )
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 33 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 11-Jun-2003 07:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (priest):
+ actually it might have been some other mac fan site .... but anyway, L3 seems to help in some G4 configurations.
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 34 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 11-Jun-2003 07:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (DET Nicolas):
"but has 512 Kb of L2 cache where as others G4 has 256 "

That chould help to iron out the speed penalty that comes from the 100Mhz FSB of peg1, when compared to A1G4XE at the same clock.
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 35 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by DET Nicoas on 11-Jun-2003 07:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (priest):
When compared with A1XE without April ...
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 36 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 11-Jun-2003 07:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (DET Nicolas):
> I don't know how you did to see "MPC 7447" however:

Squinting (text is on the left hand side of the die in that photo), and the fact it has a huge die. Also only the latter (like 7447 amd 7457 devices) are clocked to 1.3GHz.

> - 7447 has no L3 cache support

Yes, that was the point I was making

In relations to your question about heat and frequency, here's food for thought:
1GHz
Typical 15.8W
Maximum 22.0W

1.3GHz
Typical 18.7W
Maximum 26.0W

At power levels that high, you'll need a chunky heatsink (OR small heat sink and fan) to dissipate 16W. May aswell go 300MHz faster, since the equipment for cooling still needs to be there.

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 37 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 11-Jun-2003 07:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (DET Nicolas):
Hmm, the bus speed of Discovery II is 183MHz, but I guess it will run at 166MHz since this is what the CPU seems to be using. The Discovery II also offers Double Data Rate memory, doesn't this mean DDR@333 (or rather 332)? I know I'm clueless about HW, but I'd like to understand this. Where am I wrong?
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 38 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 11-Jun-2003 07:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (takemehomegrandma):
> Hmm, the bus speed of Discovery II is 183MHz, but I guess it will run at
> 166MHz since this is what the CPU seems to be using. The Discovery II also
> offers Double Data Rate memory, doesn't this mean DDR@333 (or rather 332)? I > know I'm clueless about HW, but I'd like to understand this. Where am I
> wrong?

The Disco can asychrously transfer from CPU Bus, to Memory bus, to PCI Bus. The DDR bus is actually clocked at 166.666666MHz (True clock rate) but since it's DDR, it becomes effectively 333MHz.

CPU---Cache
|
|
N/B--Mem
|
|
PCI

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 39 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 11-Jun-2003 07:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (MiniBobF):
>Pegasos I has the ability to use MPx protocol... Articia S specs tell it supports only 60x bus.
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 40 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 11-Jun-2003 07:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (MiniBobF):
Thank you! :-)
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 41 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 11-Jun-2003 07:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (tarbos):
> Articia S specs tell it supports only 60x bus.

Certianly the Artica Sa pdf specifies that the Sa chip will work to MPx protocol... the S however doesn't specify MPx or even 60x. It does specify that it supports SMP though (Which MPx does, but 60x doesn't). I guess it was a calculated guess, taken only from the marketing spec. Do you have the technical spec to refer to please?

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 42 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by renderer on 11-Jun-2003 08:52 GMT
Here is the better picture.

http://www.dcecom.de/images/G4_1GHZ_BIG.jpg
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 43 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 11-Jun-2003 09:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (renderer):
> http://www.dcecom.de/images/G4_1GHZ_BIG.jpg

My word, that IS the bigger picture. Confirms that it's 7447 too :-)

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 44 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 11-Jun-2003 09:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (MiniBobF):
Well we know it wasn't a render anyway, people always go mad with lens flare on renders ;-)
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 45 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 11-Jun-2003 09:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (MiniBobF):
> 1GHz
> Typical 15.8W
>Maximum 22.0W

It's not yet decided which of the processors that should be used. 1.0MHz, 1.2MHz or 1.3MHz. The 1.0MHz version is a lower power version (running at 1.0V) and should be a lot cooler than that:

"Building on Motorola's continued innovation and performance leadership in the high-performance host processor market, the MPC7447 achieves two major milestones in the embedded world: It delivers 1.3 GHz of performance--making it Motorola's fastest PowerPC™ processor available for embedded applications. It also dissipates less than 10W while running at 1GHz--a critical threshold for many power-sensitive embedded designs."

(From: http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7447&nodeId=03C1TR046708718653)
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 46 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 11-Jun-2003 09:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (takemehomegrandma):
> It's not yet decided which of the processors that should be used. 1.0MHz,
> 1.2MHz or 1.3MHz. The 1.0MHz version is a lower power version (running at
> 1.0V) and should be a lot cooler than that:

I was just copying what it said in the manual. There's no reason to take the manual as gospel, of course.

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 47 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by _ on 11-Jun-2003 10:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (MiniBobF):
>I was just copying what it said in the manual. There's no reason to take the >manual as gospel, of course.

Especially not as long as they write MHz instead of GHz...
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 48 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jun-2003 10:54 GMT
WHY NOT USE MAC G4?

The G4 on the Amiga is a good idea. The Mac has a design for their G4 motherboards already. Why not use the same socket? Then us Amiga-types could buy used G4/450Mhz processors (typically around $20 US on Ebay). Or we could buy Sonnettech Encore G4 modules and use those? Hopefully, the Amiga design works that way.

Actually, I hope the PegasusII or the Amiga board can use the IBM 970 (rumored to be the G5 processor for the Mac). Might as well start out with a 32/64 bit chip so AmigaOS 5 can be fully ported to 64 bit.
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 49 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 11-Jun-2003 11:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous):
> Actually, I hope the PegasusII or the Amiga board can use the IBM 970
> (rumored to be the G5 processor for the Mac). Might as well start out with a > 32/64 bit chip so AmigaOS 5 can be fully ported to 64 bit.

It doesn't use MPx or 60x bus protocol, so (without a bridge chip) we will not see it running on current (or planned) Amiga/Pegasos hardware. At the time of writing, a commercial bridge chip is not available to convert 970 interconnect (RapidIO?) to 60x/MPx.

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
First picture of the Pegasos G4 CPU cards production : Comment 50 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jun-2003 12:19 GMT
"At the time of writing, a commercial bridge chip is not available to convert 970 interconnect (RapidIO?) to 60x/MPx. "

Pretty much what I figured since Apple is rumored to be using AMD's HyperTransport for this chip. Bummer! Hopefully a different interconnect will come out.
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