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[Web] G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer!ANN.lu
Posted on 25-Jun-2003 09:45 GMT by Lewis Mistreated63 comments
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Genesi announced that the G4 upgrade card, mounted with the Motorola 7447 processor, will be available for the Pegasos next month.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 1 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 25-Jun-2003 07:47 GMT
Genesi > *

/me <3 BBRV
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 2 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jun-2003 08:16 GMT
Not very exciting when the competition (Apple) will have 970s a few weeks later.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 3 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 25-Jun-2003 08:18 GMT
since then is amiga-anything competiting with apple?
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 4 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 25-Jun-2003 08:26 GMT
Wasn't this announced afew weeks ago?

Deja-vu

Cheers
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 5 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 25-Jun-2003 09:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Amon_Re):
@Amon Re

"Wasn't this announced afew weeks ago?

Deja-vu

Cheers"

The type of the G4 CPU was not decided yet by then. The news item is a bit misleading IMO
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 6 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 25-Jun-2003 09:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Don Cox):
> Not very exciting when the competition (Apple) will have 970s a few weeks
> later.

Sure, and the performance boost is really needed to power up MacOS 10. Perhaps it won't feel sluggish anymore. I'll tell you what, on my ABit nForce2 motherboard with dual channel DDR@333, Athlon 2800+ (with Burton core), Windows XP almost feels as smooth as MorphOS on my G3@600.

I know, there are some applications that simply can't get enough of CPU power. The 970 (requires an entirely new system design) is more attractive than the G4's from a pure performance perspective. But I could not afford one! So it's not attractive to me at this point, especially since I don't like MacOS at all!

You have to look at the whole deal, the HW, the OS, the power, the price and (really important to me) the noise.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 7 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 25-Jun-2003 09:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Emeric SH):
> The type of the G4 CPU was not decided yet by then.

Sure it was, if you were a little observant. Remember that they released pictures of the CPU card a month or so ago? If you looked real careful (especially on the bigger picture) you could see the text "7447" written on the left side of the CPU.

Still not publically known which of the 1.0GHz, 1.2GHz or 1.3GHz they will use.

Perhaps all three? :-)
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 8 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 25-Jun-2003 09:40 GMT
But we thought this was old news ;)
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 9 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jun-2003 09:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (takemehomegrandma):
> Perhaps all three? :-)

Let's hope so, I don't want to be limited to a 1 GHz CPU because of some economical consideration.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 10 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jun-2003 09:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (corpse):
> But we thought this was old news ;)

Is this childish behaviour (it's news - no it's not - yes, it is - no, it'isn't - yes - no) really necessary?
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 11 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 25-Jun-2003 09:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
> Is this childish behaviour (it's news - no it's not - yes, it is - no,
> it'isn't - yes - no) really necessary?

Perhaps we can agree on the fact that it has not been on the www.pegasosppc.com before (or has it?), hence it's *some* kind of news!
:-)
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 12 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 25-Jun-2003 10:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Anonymous):
>> Perhaps all three? :-)

> Let's hope so, I don't want to be limited to a 1 GHz CPU because of some
> economical consideration.

Perhaps there would be a market for *two* versions of the G4 card, one cheaper and cooler 1.0GHz, one more expensive and hotter 1.3GHz? Then there would be three levels of price/performance/heat, the 600MHz G3, and the two G4's.

Perhaps Genesi should consider to make a CPU card with the even lower performance PPC 405 (or whatever CPU is going to be used in various STB's and other gadgets), so developers can get a better feeling of how their software will run on "the real thing" ...?
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 13 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jun-2003 10:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Hagge):
"Since when is amiga-anything competiting with apple?"

The Mac is the main competition. It has the same processor family, it took the multimedia niche from Amiga after Commodore failed, it appeals to creative people who are prepared to buy a "different" computer.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 14 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jun-2003 10:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (takemehomegrandma):
"I know, there are some applications that simply can't get enough of CPU power. The 970 (requires an entirely new system design) is more attractive than the G4's from a pure performance perspective. But I could not afford one! "

AFAIK the 970 processor is cheaper than the G4.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 15 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jun-2003 10:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (takemehomegrandma):
> Perhaps there would be a market for *two* versions of the G4 card, one cheaper and cooler 1.0GHz, one more expensive and hotter 1.3GHz?

Cool is nice but I draw a line if it's too slow ;-) For my taste, the difference between 600 MHz and 1 GHz is a bit thin and not worth $$$ (just as I would never upgrade my PC until the upgrade at least doubles speed).
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 16 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Jun-2003 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Don Cox):
"AFAIK the 970 processor is cheaper than the G4."

Where do you get your prices ?
Anyway, you can not just take a 970 and put it on a CPU card to make it work with a crippled articia.

Pegasos 3 maybe ?
And the other question is what Amiga application would benefit to go from G3/G4 to 970 ?
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 17 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jun-2003 11:13 GMT
What about 2.8GHZ P4s? That would be something.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 18 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 25-Jun-2003 11:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Christophe Decanini):
"Anyway, you can not just take a 970 and put it on a CPU card to make it work with a crippled articia."

It won't work with a fully functional Articia either. Or a Disco II.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 19 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Jun-2003 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (MiniBobF):
That was my point. This is why I said "maybe Pegasos 3".
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 20 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 25-Jun-2003 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Christophe Decanini):
> Anyway, you can not just take a 970 and put it on a CPU card to make it work with a crippled articia.

I don't have access to a Pegasos so that is going to be hard for me to do ;)
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 21 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 25-Jun-2003 11:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Christophe Decanini):
> That was my point. This is why I said "maybe Pegasos 3".

I'm not convinced you were making only one point.

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 22 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 25-Jun-2003 11:46 GMT
why not just get 1ghz g3 of ibm, much cheaper that a g4 from motorola and as far as linux and mos are concerned, no difference since they don't use any altivec..

but you will have continuous morons posting how they *need* g4/g5 even though apple will not have a 64bit macosx to take advantage of the new processor till after the intial panther release.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 23 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Jun-2003 13:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (MiniBobF):
I was making one point: The Articia S whatever version (A1, Pegasos, april or not) is not adequate for a PPC970.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 24 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 25-Jun-2003 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (cheesegrate):
Precisely. Lets get AOS4 and MorphOS working nicely with a PLEASANT WELL SPOKEN AND SUPPORTIVE community and apps in development then lets start chasing the newer hardware technologies.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 25 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 25-Jun-2003 14:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (DaveP):
Get an AmigaONE then? I heard they are still selling them.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 26 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 25-Jun-2003 14:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (DaveP):
Pleasant and Well Spoken community? Uh OK, yes that is a cornerstone of a healthy platform. Actually I think what's most critical is proper management and organization from the top, which at this point the Amiga Scene sorely lacks, not a "Pleasant and Well Spoken Community", that's hillarious.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 27 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jun-2003 14:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (MIKE):
"Pleasant and Well Spoken community? Uh OK, yes that is a cornerstone of a healthy platform. Actually I think what's most critical is proper management and organization from the top, which at this point the Amiga Scene sorely lacks, not a "Pleasant and Well Spoken Community", that's hillarious."

You mean you are only capable of being polite if there is a Big Boss standing over you to keep you in order?
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 28 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jun-2003 15:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (cheesegrate):
> why not just get 1ghz g3 of ibm, much cheaper that a g4 from motorola

If given the choice between a 1.3 GHz G4 and a 1 GHz G3, I'll take the G4, thank you. Sounds like 30% faster to me. Or was this just an example and the G3 is available at 1.3 GHz, too?
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 29 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 25-Jun-2003 17:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
So you're willing to pay ANY price for a 30% increase in speed?

I've been window shopping an Opteron system. 1.4GHz CPU costs 3000NOK. 1.6GHz 6000NOK, and 1.8GHz version 7000NOK (and I would need two, plus a motherboard).

Sure, the 1.8GHz version is 30% faster, but at 133% HIGHER cost? Hardly.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 30 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by ehaines on 25-Jun-2003 18:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
> If given the choice between a 1.3 GHz G4 and a 1 GHz G3, I'll take the G4,
> thank you. Sounds like 30% faster to me.

Maybe not. There are a bunch of different "G4" chips and a bunch of
different "G3" chips...with different cache sizes etc., you might find
a 1GHz "G3" that's faster than a 1.3 GHz "G4."
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 31 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jun-2003 18:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Olegil):
> So you're willing to pay ANY price for a 30% increase in speed?

Let me put it this way: I will pay NOTHING to upgrade from 600 MHz to 1 GHz. Just doesn't cut it for me. But upgrading from 600 MHz to 1.3 GHz: now we are talking, that would more than double the performance (wich a chance that you actually feel the difference in real life). As to prices, I have to admit I have no clue. But if, in 2003, a 1.3 GHz CPU should be too expensive to be considered, shame on its manufacturer.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 32 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 25-Jun-2003 20:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
> But upgrading from 600 MHz to 1.3 GHz: now we are talking, that would more
> than double the performance

I'm obviously no Hardware expert, but are you sure that the *performance* really doubles just because you double the clock frequency on the CPU? I wrote this elsewhere:

"But what's the point with faster processors, if the CPU has to sit in it's ass and wait for the NB to shovel data through narrow buses? IMO, there is too much emphasis on MHz and CPU performance, and too little on general system design."

As I said, I am no Hardware expert at all, but wouldn't it for instance make better sense from a price/performance POV to use the G4 on a Pegasos II system than on the Articia because of this reason (provided that it *will* have a 166+ MHz FSB and DDR 333+)?
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 33 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 25-Jun-2003 20:37 GMT
I think the Altivec on the G4 could be used
for some really interesting things. There
may not be any software that supports it
right now, but that can change quickly once
it becomes available...
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 34 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jun-2003 20:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Kelly Samel):
I'd like to see the Amiga FPU libraries recompiled with Altivec Detection and calls when used.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 35 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 25-Jun-2003 22:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Anonymous):
Altivec does *NO* good to normal FPU usage. it's highly specialised vector unit and code must be specially targetted to it.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 36 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jun-2003 23:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (takemehomegrandma):
> I'm obviously no Hardware expert, but are you sure that the *performance* really doubles

You've got a point, that was ignorant, doubling the clock wouldn't double CPU performance (in the wider sense, including memory accesses), let alone performance of other components. One more reason to hope that Genesi will pick a fast G4, to have enough leverage for a substantial (felt) performance increase.

Personally, I have no idea how good a PegasosII/G4 system would scale with the clock rate at these comparatively slow speeds (0.6-1.3 GHz). Any guess from the hardware experts? Saturation below 1.3GHz to be expected?
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 37 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jun-2003 23:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (cheesegrate):
>why not just get 1ghz g3 of ibm Which 1GHz G3 and what is its price? :-PDo you want to pass on Altivec and better bus performance?
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 38 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 26-Jun-2003 00:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Anonymous):
Pesonally I'll wait until PegaII appears cause I really don't belive upgrading CPU card alone would do enough difference to justify $$$ spend.. But it all is depend on how one sees things. IMHO PegaI is fast enough with this current CPU for current applications... By the time next motherboard appears there may well be some applications that can fully utilise better CPU and other enchancements.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 39 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Jun-2003 07:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Olegil):
Whoa.

If you were to get two of those big muthas you could just as well get the new dual G5 from Apple and save a lot of money - plus it'd be a faster machine with a much more pleasant OS :)

It's around 25000 N.Kr and comes with 2 * 2 GHz G5, nice big radeon, serial ATA 160 GB HD, 512 MB ram and the works.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 40 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 26-Jun-2003 08:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Christophe Decanini):
What cripled Articia? The Articia isn't cripled, the Peg1 is, unless you can actually *proof* otherwise?

Cheers
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 41 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 26-Jun-2003 08:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Christophe Decanini):
Same goes for the Marvel chip used in the Peg2.

Cheers
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 42 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 26-Jun-2003 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Amon_Re):
What make the performance difference between a G4 mac and a G4 Pegasos/AmigaOne ?
-> The Mac has a decent northbridge.

A performance of a system is the performance delivered by the combination of the elements in this system, not the CPU itself.

The main bootleneck in the Amigaone / Pegasos 1 compared to other sytems is the articia.
It is almost the same problem we had with the 4000. When using a 68030 or 68040/25 the slow access to main memory was a small handicap but as soon as 3rd parties did faster 68040 and 68060 accelerators they found out that they had to add fast access memory on their CPU cards.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 43 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 26-Jun-2003 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Amon_Re):
Once again.
Yes, same goes for the marvell.

This is why I said maybe in a Pegasos 3.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 44 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 26-Jun-2003 12:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Christophe Decanini):
"The main bootleneck in the Amigaone / Pegasos 1 compared to other sytems is the articia. "

:-) bootleneck :-)

Seriously can you provide a statistical breakdown comparing Articia specs with other northbridges used by other platforms?
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 45 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 26-Jun-2003 12:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Amon_Re):
Whatever you say...
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 46 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 26-Jun-2003 12:54 GMT
At 1.3GHz, the G4 is going to be crippled by its slow bus.

The 7447 doesn't have an L3 cache interface either, so there will be no fast L3 cache to improve performance and hide the bus issue.

I would have hoped for a 7457 with L3 cache however.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 47 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 26-Jun-2003 13:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (DaveP):
Seriously do you beleive that a 1Ghz G4 Peg1/AmigaOne has the same memory throughput as a 1Ghz Powermac G4 ?
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 48 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 26-Jun-2003 13:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Christophe Decanini):
No, but then I tend not to believe anything unless I have tangible proof.
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 49 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Gelb on 26-Jun-2003 13:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Amon_Re):
Reality Check please.

You are surrounded by loads of proof that articia is heavily bugged, yet you are unable to admit or even accept it.

If the words of unimportant or biased people means nothing to you, maybe you are able to accept bugtalk of redhousens and hermansens (which would of course not be the wisest of things, because they contradict themselves and each other quite often).
G4 is coming to a Pegasos near you this summer! : Comment 50 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Gelb on 26-Jun-2003 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Gelb):
Forgot to quote hermansens (sorry).

Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion- (134.58.222.78) on 30-Sep-2002 19:20
In reply to Comment 142 (Christophe Decanini):
For the record, there is no Articia bug.

[ding dong]

Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion (134.58.253.129) on 04-Dec-2002 11:43
In reply to Comment 46 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
I would also like to add that the bug in the Articia S is far less severe than most people seem to think.
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