[Rant] SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review | ANN.lu |
Posted on 30-Jun-2003 22:04 GMT by SlimJim (Edited on 2003-07-01 09:44:24 GMT by Christian Kemp) | 46 comments View flat View list |
I visited the AOS4 tour event in Gothenburg and had a play around with
AmigaOS 4.
I left Lund early in the morning for the 330 km train-ride to
Gothenburg and the AOS4 tour event. The event was held at a
different venue to the AmiGBG event; it was very close to the
trainstation and much easier to reach (albeit too small for a
full-fledged event).
At the event were two Amiga4000/060+PPC (233 MHz I think, not sure),
One had a Vodoo 5 card, I think the other had some kind of Vodoo
as well. One of these machines was used primarily for demonstrations
on the projector screen and one was avaliable for the visitors to
play around with.
There were also two AmigaOne machines there. Ole-Egil showed Debian
and the Amiga1200-on-a-card he just got (I'm sure people will
elaborate more on this, I only heard loose comments about it). He
also ran the game "Majesty" under Linux. The other AOne machine was
later shown running MacOS X on MOL (Mac-On-Linux). The speed seemed
very decent to my untrained eye.
AOS4 was run primarily in 68k mode on the '060, since at the moment
running PPC native is actually slower (about 33 MHz(?) '040 speeds).
This is due to the majority (there was a list but you'll have to
wait for screenshots since my memory is failing) of OS components
still being in 68k - and in the native PPC version, these have to be
emulated by a emulator that is currently only working in an
interpreted mode. The 68k version can of course run
these modules at native '060 speed, but in this case "AOS4" is
really just modules running on top of classic AOS3.9.
Running native in PPC on top of ExecSG was just a reboot
away though. Functionality and stability seemed to good in native
mode too (albeit slower). When complete, all critical modules are
planned to have been recompiled to PPC, and the to-be-integrated
JIT compiler Petunia are to be almost only concerned with running
third-party 68k applications (at quoted speeds you can find on the
Petunia website).
I sat down and played with AOS4. I tried it both running on 68k and
as native PPC. Having an A4000/060 at home, I very much recognized
the speed of things when running the 68k version. That is, mouse
movement is swift, and you see something happen immediately when
clicking on buttons - this is no different from classic AOS. That
said, it IS still running a 1280x1024 screen on a mere 50MHz '060:
Opaque moving of windows is causing a distinct jerky motion. You
have time to see icons appearing when opening a new window etc.
Running the current PPC native version, this is even more
noticeable, due to the reasons given above. But it is still
relatively usable and it is not difficult to imagine what harnessing
the full power of the PPC will mean to system speed.
I played around with different settings and
preferences and indeed you can change and play to your heart's
content. The new preferences system reminds me of the MUI prefs -
easy to navigate. As always in AOS, having the possibility to press
the USE button to try stuff out is excellent and dearly missed when
having to run some "other" operating systems. The only thing I found
strange was having separate prefs-editors for "Reaction" and "GUI".
I'm sure the underlying reason has to do with conceptual difference
between "Intuition" and "Reaction", but splitting the prefs editors
might seem a little counter-intuitive for a newbie.
The somewhat brighter blue look seen in the later AOS4 screenshots
stand a good chance of being part of the official look. A
semi-offical poll was conducted between the older, darker blue and
the present brighter one - and the brighter won out with a
devastating majority.
As for the overall feel: If you have used AOS before, you'll feel
right at home. This is AmigaOS after all - there is really not so
much more to say.
Stability was good and I personally didn't manage to cause any
trouble; however some graphical glitches was seen on the
presentation screen when loading some demos, also I saw the system
lock up once; I think that particular thing had something to do with
setting the prefs for the USB (I think this was on the 68k version).
All other instances of trying to run problematic stuff I saw didn't
bring down the system but rather gave the opportunity to ignore it,
reboot or run a debugger to check out the problem.
The presentations were held in the adjoining room. I was impressed
to find AOS4 promo-CD:s on each chair. The credit for this has to go
to ACG-Gotenburg people - extremely well done! As I understood it,
these CD:s will be used on other events too from now on. At the show
you could also buy an assortment of "AOS4 on tour" merchandice; I
got myself a mug and a T-shirt.
Ben Hermans of Hyperion Entertainment held a twenty-or-so minute
scheduled presentation. It was followed by the first of two long Q&A
sessions. Ben is a good public speaker and made a good impression,
I'd say. He is also interesting to talk to overall (not many can
discuss theorethical astrophysics with me off the top of their head
... ;-)) Later, one of the beta-testers (whose name I've forgotten,
sorry) held an short go-through of AOS4 features. It is of course
difficult to demonstrate nifty ExecSG features, so the demonstration
was nessecarily rather superficial and focused on showing the
preferences editor, Media Toolbox etc. I must say that the
AmiDock was very impressive in real life. I can see many clever
programmers doing just as many clever utilizations of the AmigaDock.
Ben Hermans jumped in at the end and it all turned into yet another
monster Q&A session. Plenty of knowledgeable people in the crowd, I
must say. Considering the two video cameras recording every
movement, this two-part Q&A will no doubt be appearing somewhere on
the 'net shortly, so I won't (and can't) write down the whole thing
here.
I'm not sure how many people were there, but somewhere in the region
80-100 is my guess. There were both Norwegians and Danes there. Even
more impressive were some people having travelled from the north of
Sweden for this event. Overall, not only was it interesting to look
at and try out AOS4, but it was also nice to meet Ben Hermans in
person as well as getting the opportunity to chat eye-to-eye with
some of the people "behind the nicknames".
I must take this opportunity to thank the people of ACG-Gotenburg
taking upon them to arrange this show, and thus bring the AOS4 tour
to Scandinavia. The venue was excellent and the arrangements felt
well-oiled and professional. Very impressive. Thanks.
Overall, events such as this is very good for your confidence in the
platform. It's a huge difference to hear people discuss things in
real life as opposed to reading text in fora. Thus I feel the event
was well worth the trip.
... And today I got news that my AmigaOne-XE/G4 has arrived at GGS
Data. Life is good in Amiga land.
.
SlimJim
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 1 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by SlimJim on 30-Jun-2003 20:34 GMT | I don't remember having to use <BR> tags at the end of every line in order to get
decent formatting? It used to work just by pressing <return> at each line.
Something changed in the formatting system?
.
SlimJim |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 2 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Lando on 30-Jun-2003 20:44 GMT | Good report, very informative, thanks :o)
The A1200-on-a-card sounds very interesting - isn't this what Mick Tinker was trying to do at one point? |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 3 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Kronos on 30-Jun-2003 20:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 2 (Lando): AFAIR Ole has gotten an Access some time ago, which is not an Amiga on a card,
but one that fits into a 5.25 drive-bay. Those are available 2nd Hand, just do
a search on fleabay. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 4 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by itix on 30-Jun-2003 20:56 GMT | Good report indeed! What 68k applications you tried in OS4? |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 5 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 30-Jun-2003 21:01 GMT | Thank you for a very well written and extensive report! |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 6 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Hagge on 01-Jul-2003 05:04 GMT | PPC-version running at the speed of 33mhz 040? ewww. I guess that says it's still some time for AmigaOS4 to be released, and lots of time for a PPC native amigaos version :/ |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 7 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Menthos on 01-Jul-2003 05:06 GMT | Good report! Wish I had been there!
/Me |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 8 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 01-Jul-2003 05:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 7 (Menthos): Rant???? |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 9 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Christian Kemp on 01-Jul-2003 05:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 8 (DaveP): My reasoning: it's not really "news" (people have been attacking me for posting too many things as "news", so I'm trying to tone that down), it's not a "website" (obviously, since it's posted on ANN), and it looks sufficently well thought out (even though I only managed to glance over it quickly this morning before getting to work) to merit a front page display (rather than putting it in "forum", which wouldn't). |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 10 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 01-Jul-2003 06:05 GMT | In reply to Comment 9 (Christian Kemp): @Christian
Fair enough. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 11 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by SlimJim on 01-Jul-2003 06:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 9 (Christian Kemp): Ok with me.
.
SlimJim |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 12 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Jul-2003 07:33 GMT | When running the OS4.0 on AONE machine? i think "the power" is presentation the new OS but on G3/G4 system, not on older and slowly 604 cpus |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 13 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules. Specific reason from moderator: Flamebait |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 14 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 01-Jul-2003 08:21 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous): Second generation of operating system and hardware? Don't make me laugh so hard troll boy I might choke. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 15 of 46 | ANN.lu |
In reply to Comment 14 (DaveP):
Message removed by Christian Kemp for violation of ANN's posting rules. Specific reason from moderator: Profanity/insult - the points raised are valid; but the language used is over the top |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 16 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Daniel Miller on 01-Jul-2003 08:36 GMT | This was an excellent report, SlimJim. You gave the user's eye view in language most anyone can understand, and with some good matter-of-fact detail for Amigans. Thanks! |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 17 of 46 | ANN.lu |
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules. Specific reason from moderator: Feed more the flamebait |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 18 of 46 | ANN.lu |
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
Message removed by Christian Kemp for violation of ANN's posting rules. Specific reason from moderator: Trolling/Flamebait |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 19 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Jul-2003 08:54 GMT | In reply to Comment 17 (DaveP): Nice quoted reply of yours, you came up asking me to prove things that has been proven here for Months from many other people. Why do you want me to put up the same old plate again and repeating the facts that others have proven for so many times. This only shows your overall ignorance. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 20 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 01-Jul-2003 08:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous): "Nice quoted reply of yours,"
Thanks.
"you came up asking me to prove things that has been proven here for Months from many other people."
Please do point to one scrap of proof. It should be easy for you to find and post a link given there were so many people over so many "Months".
"Why do you want me to put up the same old plate again and repeating the facts that others have proven for so many times."
A link will do, then we can discuss it.
"This only shows your overall ignorance."
How so? |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 21 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Jul-2003 09:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 20 (DaveP): Oh please, don't try this 'show me one link' are you visiting this place with closed eyes ? How ignorant are you ? Can you confirm AmigaOS 4.0 running on AmigaONE yet ? can you ? |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 22 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by reflect on 01-Jul-2003 09:19 GMT | In reply to Comment 21 (Anonymous): the articia bugs hasn't been proved once yet, to my knowledge. It has been stated that it exists many, many times, but no one has of yet provided the masses with the documentation and means to try it out themselves. That which has been provided, doesn't point exclusive to the articia so far.
And to the two of you, this is very, very off topic. Could you take the rest of the conversation in private, please. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 23 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 01-Jul-2003 09:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 21 (Anonymous): @reflect
If you think Im engaging in private email with this guy you must be whacko.
@anonymous
"Oh please, don't try this 'show me one link' are you visiting this place with closed eyes ? "
I keep a frequent eye on the topics and their contents and I have not seen one scrap of incontrevertable evidence than the present Articia-S as used in the A1XE suffers from the problems that the Pegasos does. You made the claim, you do the work.
"How ignorant are you ?"
Not at all ignorant.
"Can you confirm AmigaOS 4.0 running on AmigaONE yet ?"
Is this germaine to our discussion? Pray do show me how.
"can you ?"
See above. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 24 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Jul-2003 09:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 21 (Anonymous): Does it matter? If it runs on A1 or not is not part of my problem... I'm not going to buy A1 anyway. MOS/Peg is superb but lets talk about it somewhere else, ok?? |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 25 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Jul-2003 10:02 GMT | Ahhhhhh
'taking it somewhere else'
Now someone chopped off your scrotum with real true facts and not getting trapped with standard shit you came up with this sentence. No I ask here and again. Is AmigaOS4 already running on AmigaONE ?
Simply YES or NO is enough, one question two idiotproof answers. I already preselect [NO] for you in case you have problems finding the right answer. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 26 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 01-Jul-2003 10:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous): "Now someone chopped off your scrotum with real true facts and not getting trapped with standard shit you came up with this sentence."
What are you talking about?
"No I ask here and again. Is AmigaOS4 already running on AmigaONE ? "
Again, is this germaine to our discussion? You have not answered the earlier points yet, you still have time to do so. If you need a link back up the topic thread I'm happy to provide it. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 27 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Jul-2003 10:28 GMT | In reply to Comment 26 (DaveP): > > "Now someone chopped off your scrotum with real true facts and not getting
> > trapped with standard shit you came up with this sentence."
> What are you talking about?
For the undereducated ones. I was talking about the line above your quote that you cut off or simply ignored.
Quote: 'taking it somewhere else'
Take out your braille keyboard. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 28 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Jul-2003 10:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 27 (Anonymous): If you don't have any comments about the report or the show, can you please stop filling up this thread with useless posts?
Anyway, thanks for the report SlimJim. Seems like you had a good time there. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 29 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 01-Jul-2003 10:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 27 (Anonymous): @anonymous
Oh I chopped that off, because I never said it in the first place. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 30 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by magnetic on 01-Jul-2003 11:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 26 (DaveP): Of course OS4 is not running on A1. Its not even fully running on
Cyberstorm yet :( This is bad.. Development is slow. With Ainc being
broke and no money for development these past 2 years what can you
expect. They are coding there asses off, but time is against them.
Time is all they have... notice they never say who is really
developing the os besides the Friedens. I dont expect OS4 for A1 until
next year... sad |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 31 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by magnetic on 01-Jul-2003 11:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 30 (magnetic): Slim Jim
Nice report.. most comprehensive yet. :) |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 32 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 01-Jul-2003 11:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 30 (magnetic): >notice they never say who is really
>developing the os besides the Friedens. I dont expect OS4 for A1 until
I think some other people were mentioned occasionally, for example
Alexander Lohrmann, Almos Rajnai, me, Sven Ottemann, Olaf Barthel (this list
is definitely NOT complete). It is really
a huge list of people working on it, though not all of them fulltime.
If you check articles on CAM about a certain OS component, it is usually the
author of the component reported about who is writing the article (me about
AmigaInput, Colin Wenzel about DOS, Stefan Robl about application.library,...).
>next year... sad
Don't put your expectations too low, I say then !!! You might get a positive
surprise, hehehe :)
Steffen |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 33 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by reflect on 01-Jul-2003 13:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 23 (DaveP): >In Reply to Comment 21:
>@reflect
>If you think Im engaging in private email with this guy you must be whacko.
hehe, no, but I would suggest to just ignore some comments, so that we don't ruin an otherwise fine thread :) |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 34 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 01-Jul-2003 13:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 33 (reflect): @reflect
Well its just BS control but I guess it must be pretty wearing to read. SlimJims report stands up on its own ( although a paragraph in it was a tad confusing and deserves a second read through ).
If you guys ( I mean all forum readers ) are starting to get fed up with me picking mischief makers posting unsubstantiated rumour as fact Ill back off. I know I can be a bit of a pittbull sometimes. :-) |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 35 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by reflect on 01-Jul-2003 15:38 GMT | In reply to Comment 34 (DaveP): @DaveP
Yeah, it can become quite uninteresting to read at times, not cause you're wrong or anything, but cause it's a fight you cannot win. You can't convince people of anything if they don't listen to reason, the guy above is a grand example of that :)
Anyways, take care |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 36 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Jul-2003 16:47 GMT | you people should go out more often and pimp some cameltoe. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 37 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by SlimJim on 01-Jul-2003 19:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 34 (DaveP): > Well its just BS control but I guess it must be pretty wearing to read.
> SlimJims report stands up on its own ( although a paragraph in it was a tad
> confusing and deserves a second read through ).
I'm not surprised. I was somewhat rushed to submit the text and had too little
time to go through it properly. May I ask what particular paragraph you are
referring to (I can think of several)?
.
SlimJim |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 38 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 02-Jul-2003 05:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 37 (SlimJim): Well the one I had to read a couple of times was this one, can't point to exactly why though:
"AOS4 was run primarily in 68k mode on the '060, since at the moment running PPC native is actually slower (about 33 MHz(?) '040 speeds). This is due to the majority (there was a list but you'll have to wait for screenshots since my memory is failing) of OS components still being in 68k - and in the native PPC version, these have to be emulated by a emulator that is currently only working in an interpreted mode. The 68k version can of course run these modules at native '060 speed, but in this case "AOS4" is really just modules running on top of classic AOS3.9. Running native in PPC on top of ExecSG was just a reboot away though. Functionality and stability seemed to good in native mode too (albeit slower). When complete, all critical modules are planned to have been recompiled to PPC, and the to-be-integrated JIT compiler Petunia are to be almost only concerned with running third-party 68k applications (at quoted speeds you can find on the Petunia website). " |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 39 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 02-Jul-2003 07:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 38 (DaveP): Seems clear enough to me:
a) the modules are still 68k at this stage
b) Petunia is not integrated (maybe not completed ready), so 68k programs have to run interpreted in native PPC mode, which is slow.
c) Running the modules on an 060 instead gives a better view of their eventual performance.
Congrats to SlimJim for a good report and what a shame it is that it has attracted another flamefest for no good reason. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 40 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 02-Jul-2003 08:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 39 (Bill Hoggett): "Congrats to SlimJim for a good report and what a shame it is that it has attracted another flamefest for no good reason"
You know Im continually amazed at what Amiga community members seem to think constitutes a flamefest. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 41 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 02-Jul-2003 08:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 40 (DaveP): @DaveP
Fine, "flamefest" is too strong a term. Would you accept "pointless stupid argument" instead? |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 42 of 46 | ANN.lu |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 43 of 46 | ANN.lu |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 44 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 02-Jul-2003 09:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 43 (Bill Hoggett): Its called answering someones deliberate misinterpretations ;-P |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 45 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by DaveP on 02-Jul-2003 09:11 GMT | In reply to Comment 39 (Bill Hoggett): Actually its the excess use of brackets that broke up the flow of the paragraph. |
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SlimJim's short (OK, not so short) AOS4 Gothenburg Tour event review : Comment 46 of 46 | ANN.lu |
Posted by SlimJim on 02-Jul-2003 17:34 GMT | Thanks for the positive comments people! But the guys that arranged the event are the ones actually deserving the praise.
.
SlimJim |
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Anonymous, there are 46 items in your selection |
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