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[Files] JamigaANN.lu
Posted on 08-Jul-2003 11:59 GMT by Richi55 comments
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Another release of Java for Os3.9 Os4.0 The forth release! It's still a pre-alpha.
Jamiga : Comment 1 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Jul-2003 10:09 GMT
Could some of the authors explain what AmigaOS 3.9-only features JAmiga uses.
Jamiga : Comment 2 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Richi on 08-Jul-2003 10:49 GMT
Opps i forgot the address: http://sourceforge.net/projects/jamiga
Jamiga : Comment 3 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Jamiga (Co)Author on 08-Jul-2003 15:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
None, but it is developed under OS3.9 and we only test it on 3.9 (OS4.0 to come).
It should run on OS3.0, but that will change, when AWT comes in, because we (most likely) will use ReAction for native implementation of GUI elements.
Jamiga : Comment 4 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Jul-2003 15:37 GMT
It would be nice if there was a listing of things already done & things "to do", gives a nice overview of what needs to happen still :)

Anyway, keep up the good work!

Cheers
Jamiga : Comment 5 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 08-Jul-2003 15:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Jamiga (Co)Author):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It should run on OS3.0, but that will change, when AWT comes in, because we (most likely) will use ReAction for native implementation of GUI elements.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Any reason for Reaction over MUI? (not flame bait, I'm just interested)
Jamiga : Comment 6 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Bill on 08-Jul-2003 16:35 GMT
Reaction is the standard GUI toolset for OS 3.9 and OS 4.0. It makes sense to use it for that reason alone.

Bill "tekmage" Borsari
Jamiga : Comment 7 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark] on 08-Jul-2003 16:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Jamiga (Co)Author):
@ Andre

Looking forward to try it on AmigaOS4.0 :o)
Jamiga : Comment 8 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 08-Jul-2003 16:45 GMT
Related to Java, I hit myself to this at MorphZone some days ago:

http://www.aminox.com/clients.htm

There is a Java VM being contracted for Genesi.

What you people think of it? Aminox homepage looks so amateurish that I wouldn't necessary contract anything from them.. hopefully they are better programmers than webdesigners :)

Frankly I have never heard of them. What kind of expertise on Amiga? Past projects? Keymembers of community working? Any worker lurking at ann by any chance?
Jamiga : Comment 9 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 08-Jul-2003 16:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Bill):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Reaction is the standard GUI toolset for OS 3.9 and OS 4.0. It makes sense to use it for that reason alone.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Still seem to limit it a bit, since MUI is available on every system from OS3.0 up to OS4 and beyond...
Jamiga : Comment 10 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Jul-2003 16:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Matt Parsons):
If they choose to use reaction, it's there choice, no?

But i guess i understand why some people would prefer MUI (like for instance, it's availability for AOS, AROS & MOS).

However, AROS & MOS aim at AOS compability, so they should get that one sorted out, instead of telling the people writing this what to use.

Just my two cents

Cheers
Jamiga : Comment 11 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Smith on 08-Jul-2003 17:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Bill):
It's good to see that you are using the latest standards. Good luck on the project! :)

Sam
Jamiga : Comment 12 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 08-Jul-2003 17:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Amon_Re):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If they choose to use reaction, it's there choice, no?

But i guess i understand why some people would prefer MUI (like for instance, it's availability for AOS, AROS & MOS).

However, AROS & MOS aim at AOS compability, so they should get that one sorted out, instead of telling the people writing this what to use.

Just my two cents

Cheers
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Well no Reaction dos not give choice. But you have a fair point about Reaction compatibility. Only thing is that there is already a multiplatform system, MUI, that is widely suported (more so than Reaction) simple logic would tell you which is a "better" in this case.

Never mind. :-)
Jamiga : Comment 13 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Jul-2003 17:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Matt Parsons):
Well, it's simple logic (and i agree that it offers a very good point for using MUI), but the authors have decided on supporting AOS3.9+, for reasons i don't know.

(Could be because they only have machines running this, it could be they lack the docs to support the other things, it could be politicly tinted, whatever)

But the simple fact is, if one aims at being compatable with something, he should make sure it *IS* compatable, instead of depending on using foreign libs & executables (wich question the licence agreements of said libs & exe's).

I'm not accusing Bplan or Genesi here mind you, but i wouldn't be supriced if their users actually do this thing.

Also, MUI on the classic is, as far as i know, shareware, and no longer developed, while reaction is more recent, and still supported at this time on the classic, iirc

Cheers
Jamiga : Comment 14 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark] on 08-Jul-2003 18:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Matt Parsons):
@ Matt Parsons

as they want to use AmigaOS ... they use the standard toolkit for it ... how hard is it to understand?

ReAction has been the standard since AmigaOS 3.5!
Jamiga : Comment 15 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 08-Jul-2003 18:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark]):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@ Matt Parsons

as they want to use AmigaOS ... they use the standard toolkit for it ... how hard is it to understand?

ReAction has been the standard since AmigaOS 3.5!

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I have no problem with them using Reaction, I just find it a strange choice as I would personally perfer to use a more universally used system... That's why I prefer SDL over DirectX... for example.
Jamiga : Comment 16 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Jul-2003 18:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Matt Parsons):
Like i said, i understand your argument and agree to a certain point, but it's not our job to dictate these people what to use.

And one could argue, that, since the "others" are all aiming at AOS compability, that it's their job to implement Reaction.

SDL is a system meant to make code more portable, because eg Linux & Windows don't share the same api's, but then again, neighter one is trying to be compatable with each other now are they?

It's not the same.

But like i said, i to like portability, but again, it's not up to us

Cheers
Jamiga : Comment 17 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 08-Jul-2003 18:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark]):
@Henning Nielsen Lund

>ReAction has been the standard since AmigaOS 3.5!

Yes, and many people hate every minute of it. MUI was told to be slow many years ago. Novadays the situation has changed, people has faster machines, gfxcards, Pegasoses or AmigaOnes.

But of course its their choice.. do it for ZX Basic for what I care. Rarely I have seen anyone treated with such "treatment" for bringing up a question/suggestion :)
Jamiga : Comment 18 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 08-Jul-2003 18:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (hooligan/dcs):
My apologies if i came over harsh, but like i said, it's their choice, no?

Cheers
Jamiga : Comment 19 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 08-Jul-2003 19:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Amon_Re):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My apologies if i came over harsh, but like i said, it's their choice, no?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Yes, fortuately they do have a choice... I just hope they've fully explored all avaiable systems before they make that choice (as it's not 100% certain they will use Reaction yet, from their last post).

Fingers crossed for MUI :-)
Jamiga : Comment 20 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark] on 08-Jul-2003 19:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Matt Parsons):
As it is only a shareware version that comes with AmigaOS4.0, and they want to use AmigaOS4.0 themselves ... it would be a problem for them to make it for MUI!

And as Amon_Re says ... as the "others" that want to make their OSes AmigaOS compatible ... it is up to them to make a ReAction wrapper, if they are serious!

If you want it to run on as many systems as possible ... why do you want the shareware MUI, why not GTK+ or QT?

Cross fingers for ReAction!!!
Jamiga : Comment 21 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 08-Jul-2003 19:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Amon_Re):
> MUI on the classic is, as far as i know, shareware, and no longer> developed, while reaction is more recent, and still supported at this> time on the classic, iirc AFAIK there are no more Reaction updates for 68k.
Jamiga : Comment 22 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by NihilVor on 08-Jul-2003 20:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Matt Parsons):
As others have said, MUI is old. Amiga 3.9 is not that expensive, and it is worth the upgrade. I'm sure someone else will make an MUI interface for it anyway.
Jamiga : Comment 23 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by STRICQ on 08-Jul-2003 20:21 GMT
Assuming I have the time, I will write AWT for MUI. I already have the JAmiga source code and have been studying it for the past week.
Jamiga : Comment 24 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Jul-2003 20:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (STRICQ):
What about fix the STRICQ (2.x) instead? I am not talking about missing features but about the bugs... for example with 80-100kb+ history stricq become unusable slow
Jamiga : Comment 25 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 08-Jul-2003 20:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (STRICQ):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Assuming I have the time, I will write AWT for MUI. I already have the JAmiga source code and have been studying it for the past week.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

That's cool :-) Now we can all be happy!
Jamiga : Comment 26 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by CodeSmith on 08-Jul-2003 21:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (NihilVor):
The biggest problem with MUI is that it's not completely a part of the system - it's a demo version, to get full functionality you have to pay extra. Reaction is there to use for free, so why not use it?

Does MOS come with the registered version of MUI, or is it in the same situation as AOS?
Jamiga : Comment 27 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 08-Jul-2003 21:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (CodeSmith):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Does MOS come with the registered version of MUI, or is it in the same situation as AOS?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

MOS users get the full thing and AROS users use the Opensource clone Zune (which is also avaiable for AmigaOS).
Jamiga : Comment 28 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 08-Jul-2003 21:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (CodeSmith):
MOS comes with full version of MUI. I wonder if there are further updates for AmigaOS. OS4 should come with MUI 3.9 but looks like the future of MUI is heavily MOS oriented.
Jamiga : Comment 29 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 08-Jul-2003 21:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (itix):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
MOS comes with full version of MUI. I wonder if there are further updates for AmigaOS. OS4 should come with MUI 3.9 but looks like the future of MUI is heavily MOS oriented.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

As long as there is a free opensource alternative, ie Zune, it will never become MOS centric.

I love OpenSource :-)
Jamiga : Comment 30 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by STRICQ on 08-Jul-2003 23:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Anonymous):
I am no longer supporting nor even considering doing any more work on STRICQ. I have grown weary of it. I don't mean to say this won't change in the future, just for now.
Jamiga : Comment 31 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 08-Jul-2003 23:56 GMT
MUI is still evolving for MorphOS. The original author is working for Genesi.
Jamiga : Comment 32 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 09-Jul-2003 00:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (hooligan/dcs):
Shock horror.
Seriously Hooligan do some research on Allan Havemose and come back to the thread :)
Jamiga : Comment 33 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Casey R Williams on 09-Jul-2003 00:57 GMT
I think it's best to ALWAYS support the newest thing whenever possible. I mean the more people using something, the quicker it matures. It's the old Amiga user way of thinking that's paradoxical. People say they want something that works with what they have, yet claim there's never a compelling reason to upgrade. If the Amiga or its derivatives are to ever be more than a retro hobbyist thing to the world at large, we'll not only have to continue innovating, but to be more accepting of newer ways of doing things, especially when the old way is a dead end and the vibrant new way is debatably equal. I hope that made sense.
Jamiga : Comment 34 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by selco on 09-Jul-2003 06:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Casey R Williams):
I personally would prefere MUI over reaction. Sure, MUI is shareware, but the only limitation of the free version is that you cant save your personal settings, e.g. MUI will have the standard look next time its booted. I registered long time ago btw.
I never understood why reaction became the "standard" on the Amiga.

But anyway, its the choice of the developers to use the system they prefere most.
I will be very happy if a working system appears. So the question MUI/Reaction is not really impportant. The important point is - there will be (hopefully) a working system soon.

Can we do anything already with this program? To see how good it works? Any examples, tutorials? That would be nice!

Continue your good work! May the force be with you!

regards selco, http://selco.da.ru
Jamiga : Comment 35 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 09-Jul-2003 07:59 GMT
Eh, just some corrections.

As far as I can tell, MUI seems to be developed for 68k. On the "OS4
on tour", there was a version of MUI displayed which definitely had
most (maybe even all) of the stuff that has been added to the PPC/MOS
version. This is good, because it means developers can use a single
(and imho the best) GUI system and achieve wide compatibility.

As for ReAction being "free", that's not exactly true is it? :-)

Personally I never bought 3.5 or 3.9, mainly because I don't like
ReAction. I guess I could still install parts of it, and not bother
about the components that actually use ReAction, but it doesn't feel
very attractive.
Jamiga : Comment 36 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 09-Jul-2003 08:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (hooligan/dcs):
What's wrong with that website? If all websites were half that good,
I'd be very happy..
Jamiga : Comment 37 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 09-Jul-2003 08:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Johan Rönnblom):
Well it's just plain dull but thats a matter of taste really. Just as an comparison, using white and blue theme aswell but in my eyes a lot more professional: www.wmhost.com
Jamiga : Comment 38 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 09-Jul-2003 08:48 GMT
Can we talk on topic now please? I'd like to know if anyone's tried it and what they think of it so far, I can't comment since my Amiga's 50 miles away.
Jamiga : Comment 39 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 09-Jul-2003 09:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (selco):
As BenH stated, the MUI demo on OS4 will have a standard OS4 look, not the
normal MWB one. Even if people don't register they will have a proper look.
Jamiga : Comment 40 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 09-Jul-2003 09:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Johan Rönnblom):
As far as I can tell, MUI seems to be developed for 68k. On the "OS4
on tour", there was a version of MUI displayed which definitely had
most (maybe even all) of the stuff that has been added to the PPC/MOS
version.
--

Certainly not most, even less all... Other than that the API will most probably stay the
same, so there's no word about incompatability (except if MOS has extra classes).
Jamiga : Comment 41 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 09-Jul-2003 10:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Casey R Williams):
"I think it's best to ALWAYS support the newest thing whenever possible. "

Only if it is better.

The problem with Reaction is that the OS3.9 version is greatly inferior to MUI. The version for OS4 does seem to be catching up, and somewhat less ugly.
Jamiga : Comment 42 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 09-Jul-2003 13:29 GMT
As an occasional programmer of both MUI and ReAction GUIs.
I would have to say that MUI does a lot more for the coder and user
than ReAction/ClassAct does. ReAction is pretty basic set of
BOOPSI classes going back to OS2.04 design. MUI offers a quite
impressive expansion on the BOOPSI concept and takes care of far more
in the areas of configuration and adapability/expandability. Reaction
is a bit easier to code because of it's simplicity, but MUI apps tend
to be more "deluxe" and it's worth the small bit of extra effort to
learn MUI in my opinion. Regardless of which GUI system you prefer,
with the open source "Zune" being developed as a "de-facto" standard
for AROS and MUI being the preffered and official interface for
MorphOS, everyone should be able to use MUI apps without problems. :)
Jamiga : Comment 43 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 09-Jul-2003 14:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Christophe Decanini):
I hate to be the burster of bubbles but from what I heard directly from the mouths of BBRV the Java project headed up by Allan Havemose has been put on hold indefinately. If you don't believe my word for it, you can email Genesi.
Jamiga : Comment 44 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 09-Jul-2003 15:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (the man in the shadows):
:(
I will try to find out more about it.
Jamiga : Comment 45 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Casey R Williams on 09-Jul-2003 15:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Don Cox):
""I think it's best to ALWAYS support the newest thing whenever possible. ""

"Only if it is better."

I agree that it's likely a hard choice for developers to make. If I were in the position of evaluating one abandoned approach for another picked to be its successor, that'd be an important consideration certainly.

"The problem with Reaction is that the OS3.9 version is greatly inferior to MUI. The version for OS4 does seem to be catching up, and somewhat less ugly."

Well I hope it does catch up. I'm not anti-MUI, as the programs that have used it were obviously able to offer things they might not have if the author had to rely on his own coding alone. I just hope that Reaction does surpass it quickly and that a new user in say 2 years need not have to look at two different interface styles as they switch from program to program. If MUI was still active (and included) and Reaction was the one on the way out, I'd be for MUI.

Now has anyone used this Java for anything? ;)
Jamiga : Comment 46 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 09-Jul-2003 15:41 GMT
Sigh... once again - Genesi is sponsoring a Java port and there is another independent effort to do the same. Amiga Inc. is closely allied with Tao, which has a high-performance, Sun-sanctioned Java RTE.

Talk about chopping off your nose to...
Jamiga : Comment 47 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 09-Jul-2003 15:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (the man in the shadows):
In a matter of fact, BBRV was the one posting the link .. at http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=451&forum=3
Jamiga : Comment 48 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 09-Jul-2003 19:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (hooligan/dcs):
Hmm... Good spot on that! I wonder why that page hasn't been updated for over 6 months though... it still says the contracting is being done for Thendic but BBRV had stated the JVM was at a halt and he even asked if I was willing to do it (certified java dev and all).. hmm... that's good news if it's still in the works.
Jamiga : Comment 49 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 09-Jul-2003 20:41 GMT
I also read bbrv stated that develpment was stopped, don't think any reason was given:(
Jamiga : Comment 50 of 55ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 10-Jul-2003 06:25 GMT
I don't really see any point in using Reaction...
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