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[Web] Amiga wants you!ANN.lu
Posted on 15-Jul-2003 12:55 GMT by Lewis Mistreated160 comments
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Amiga Inc. started out a competition giving the chance to graphix artists to see their pics published on the forthcoming AmigaOS 4.0 cd.
Contribute now and let the world know where Eric Schwartz came from! ;-)
Amiga wants you! : Comment 101 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 16-Jul-2003 11:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Jupp3):
I respect your choice of platform just like the 99% of my friends that isn't Amiga users either. Many MorphOS and Pegasos users could surely use some of your insight and honesty. This way we may have some form of mutual understanding and stay away from stepping on each others toes all of the time.

Thank you. I really mean it.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 102 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 11:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (Lando):
"Who is hiding their reasons?
I use a Pegasos because it's a damn good product, it's available and it works. There is a real buzz surrounding it, there are talented, creative people working on it, and its great to be a part of it. It's the first time I've been so inspired by a computer since my first Amiga 12 years ago.
"
And it runs MorphOS and AmigaOS programs. Good. You're as much of an Amiga user as I am who runs WindowsXP and AmigaOS via Amiga Forever. However, if either will be supported with AmigaOS4.x will be the question. The question after that is how/where are people making software for Amiga Forever, MorphOS, and AmigaOS.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 103 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 16-Jul-2003 11:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Anonymous):
To put things into a bit of perspective --- the license fees for "the Amiga DE Operating System developed by Amiga together with all Enhancements created by Amiga for Thendic and all Updates and Upgrades provided by Amiga to Thendic" was to be $4.50. While this arguably may not include the development environment, this gives a pretty good upper bound for the amount Tao would have received from DE sales.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 104 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 11:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (smp266):
The retailers have no one but themselves to blame for sinking Amiga.

***
Come on there were many reasons outside of the retailers for sinking the Amiga. I'm not saying all retailers were free of blame. However, retailers need to make money too. I don't know what price C=/Escom sold the Amiga to the retailers at but if it was above the Pentium pricing then the reatils still have to mark up so they make a bit of money and can sell more software/hardware to you in the future. Thus, the $2K price is probably not an issue to blame on the retailers but on the owner C=/Escom.

Also, there were lots of other reasons - Advertising, business infiltration, marketshare, quality of applications, and mistakes by C=.

Here's one good example: The makers of Star Trek wanted and Amiga computer to be shown as the near future of computing. They needed it for a couple of months of filming. Commodore told them to go out and buy one. They then went to Apple. Apple provided them a computer and a person to help them out for the couple of months. So, instead of seeing Scotty talk into an Amiga Mouse trying to wake up the computer by saying 'Computer' you see him talking into an Apple Macintosh system. Free advertising can go a long way.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 105 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 11:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Anonymous):
I don't think, I know. Just like I know you're the one who needs to pull his head out of his ass.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 106 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 11:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (dammy):
'I wonder if I should point out that some of us who are vocal about Amiga Inc don't care about Pegasos either? Nah, why spoil your rant. ;)
'

Why should they? Amiga Inc is far from perfect. PegasOS is far from perfect. That's one of the reasons forums are on the internet people can rant about the ills of their systems.

If it was up to me Amiga Inc would have shipped Amiga OS 4.x years ago and PegasOS wouldn't have had time to come into being.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 107 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 16-Jul-2003 11:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (samface):
Hmmm... "Hyperion".Do I win something? I remember quite clearly the Cologne 2001 expo where Hyperion stated they expected to ship OS4 sometime in early 2002, and that there was a chance they might get a developer beta version out before Christmas. Christmas 2001, that is.A rather funny Jan-2002 interview with BH himself can be found here: http://glames.online.fr/infos/itw_hermans.html
Amiga wants you! : Comment 108 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 16-Jul-2003 12:23 GMT
BTW --- did Amiga Inc just announce that OS4 won't be available in 2003 after all? They are looking for *20* backdrops, "one for each year that the Amiga platform has enriched the world". At this point, the Amiga has been around for less than 18 years (introduced in October 1985)
Amiga wants you! : Comment 109 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 16-Jul-2003 12:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Bernie Meyer):
Beeep! Wrong. Thank you for playing.

I was refering to the release dates set by Amiga Inc. *before* Hyperion was involved with the development of AmigaOS4. Try again.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 110 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 16-Jul-2003 12:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Bernie Meyer):
LOL! That was the funniest reasoning for trying to figure out the release date of AmigaOS4 that I've ever read. You simply crack me up. =)
Amiga wants you! : Comment 111 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 16-Jul-2003 12:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (samface):
Well, if you are looking for the answer "Haage & Partner", then I don't think I can oblige. When McBill proudly announced OS4 for October 2001 at Amiwest'01, he knew damn well that H&P had not been working on it, that nobody else was working on it, and that H&P had no intention of working on it anytime soon.H&P are certainly convenient scapegoats (seeing as they are now the "evil guys" who hold the OS3.5/3.9 code for ransom), and believe me, you won't find me arguing that they are anything but a bunch of lying bastards --- but no matter how convenient it would be to claim empty promises on them, it would be inaccurate.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 112 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 16-Jul-2003 12:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Bernie Meyer):
Argh --- "blame", not "claim". I should get more sleep....
Amiga wants you! : Comment 113 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 16-Jul-2003 12:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (DaveP):
> Yes, I think you will always find something to hate and slate Dammy, but if you > think not being interested in the Pegasos gives you any credibility or excuse
> to go round the net rubbing people up the wrong way then thats a fantasy world > you live in.

You Hyperion beta testers make me laugh, alot. It's funny as hell watching you squirm when the heat comes on Amiga Inc's misdeeds.

> In fact, I speculate

Nice way of putting it, "Fact" backed up with "Speculate." Quit the weasel words Dave, let those professional weasels at Amiga Inc do their job.

> that the unnecessary animosity between MorphOS and AmigaOS users has been
> prolonged by people such as yourself, deliberately playing games with people.

Oh yeah, blame anyone else but Amiga Inc for their misdeeds. My, how intellectually dishonest of you Dave. Your such a good littel betatester, coming to defend Hyperion and it's partners. Ben "I'm important" H. must be so proud of you.

Dammy
Amiga wants you! : Comment 114 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 16-Jul-2003 12:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (samface):
> Either you are an Amiga user or you are not. You are only an Amiga user if you > are using Amiga branded products, Amiga Inc.'s IP is not to be associated with > any other products. Why is this so hard to understand? Is it really that
> difficult to realize that neither the Pegasos nor the MorphOS is Amiga
> products?

W00t! Guess by that discription, as a Cloanto UAE user via my athlon box, I'm still an Amiga user. Right Sam? Now as soon as Amiga Inc finishes their contract with Genesi and port DE to Pegasos, Pegasus users will be Amiga Users and you can shut up. =)

Dammy
Amiga wants you! : Comment 115 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 16-Jul-2003 12:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Anonymous):
>And it runs MorphOS and AmigaOS programs. Good. You're as much of an Amiga
>user as I am who runs WindowsXP and AmigaOS via Amiga Forever.

Well, that depends on your definition of "Amiga User".

If anything, you can run a lot more Amiga programs than me since UAE emulates the custom chipset whereas MorphOS doesn't. But then, neither will OS4, so maybe you'll be more of an "Amiga User" than people with an A1+OS4 too (or an A1+Linux, as it stands at the moment)?

But, I can also run Amiga PPC applications and you can't. Who's to say what the term "Amiga User" means these days. If you run Linux APUS on a classic Amiga with PowerUP card, are you an Amiga user, or a Linux user? You're not running AmigaOS. What if you're running Unix on an A3000UX? What if you're running OS3.x on a Draco with no custom chips? Then there's the emulators like UAE and Amithlon.

I'm a MorphOS user. I also happen to run the same Amiga programs I ran on my old A4000/CSPPC (only 10+ times faster). I also have two Macs and run MaxUAE on them under OSX. Label me whatever you want...

If someone playing Planet Zed on AmigaDE Player on WinXP is an Amiga User then the term really is meaningless. It's just a name to put on a box...
Amiga wants you! : Comment 116 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 16-Jul-2003 13:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Lando):
I'll tell you what IS meaningless, its all the pointless bickering... *sigh*
Amiga wants you! : Comment 117 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 16-Jul-2003 13:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Lando):
Why is it so hard to understand that you define the users by the brand of the product they are using? Jay Miner didn't stumble upon an Amiga user community one day and decided to make a computer for it. A computer user community evolves around a specific computer and/or OS and is therefore most oftenly refered to the brand of that specific computer and/or OS, not the other way around.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 118 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 16-Jul-2003 13:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (samface):
Samface, speaking as someone who has his hopes pinned on OS4 for his future OS, the utter rubbish you come out with is hilarious ;)
Amiga wants you! : Comment 119 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 16-Jul-2003 13:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (dammy):
Yeah, some of you are trolls for the sake of being one.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 120 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 16-Jul-2003 13:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Peter Gordon):
Joking?
A community always builds around an existing system. If Genesi want one they should work on building one under their name and not try to take over someone elses. (Otoh they arent really interested in the community that much but mostly in developers for their settop boxes and simliar devices.)
Amiga wants you! : Comment 121 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 16-Jul-2003 14:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Bernie Meyer):
Well, you assume Amiga would report the sales to TAO accurately. Personally I doubt they would, these guys make so many shady deals/proposals I bet they would just pocket it, and not report the units sold to TAO.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 122 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by William F. Maddock on 16-Jul-2003 15:15 GMT
You know, I'm sitting here in the lunch room at work, using the "public workstation" (if you will), and a coworker comes up and, seeing what I'm reading chuckles at me. I explain to her what the thread is about, even showing her the so far approved contributions. Here comments about this thread then were basically something like "you guys need help." :-D
Amiga wants you! : Comment 123 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 16-Jul-2003 16:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (Ketzer):
--------
Joking?
A community always builds around an existing system. If Genesi want one they should work on building one under their name and not try to take over someone elses. (Otoh they arent really interested in the community that much but mostly in developers for their settop boxes and simliar devices.)
---------

Yeah, and then there was no existing system, just the community,
then the community made a new system. Life took a new turn!
Live with it.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 124 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Jonny Johansson on 16-Jul-2003 16:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (samface):
Samface wrote:

>Why is it so hard to understand that you define the users by the brand
>of the product they are using?

Ah, you make the second person I see admitting that to you it's only
the name that matters - well and good. :7
Amiga wants you! : Comment 125 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Ray A. Akey on 16-Jul-2003 16:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (MIKE):
MIKE, this is nonsense and a pure bunch of speculative bull. Amiga makes sure that all reports are compiled and reported on time. Just ask any of our SDA developers if Amiga has reported sales to them. Tao, as a partner, is no different.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 126 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 16-Jul-2003 16:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (William F. Maddock):
Hey! Tell her not all of us do, just a chosen few! Actually, that's the same chosen few that want you to put her phone number on the forum! ;)


>Her comments about this thread then were basically something like "you guys need help." :-D
Amiga wants you! : Comment 127 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 17:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Jonny Johansson):
Most people have no problem calling them selfs community of the Os and or the Hardware that they are useing.

But that is something the Pegasos/MorphOS commumity have problems with and the name means more to them than they let on as they insist in calling them selfs the Amiga community as the name does matter but then say the name dont matter when trying to get people to switch over to Peg/MOS.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 128 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 16-Jul-2003 18:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Ray A. Akey):
>>"The only thing comical is your opinion that people should give all of Amiga
>>Inc's statements time and interest."

>Then don't contribute, it's really THAT simple.

I never intend to, and I wasn't complaining about that. I was complaining about your indignant attitude towards peoples' attitudes towards Amiga Inc. You seem surprised by the scepticism! Why? What else did you expect?

>I am not the one to answer those questions for you. Those answers have been
>answered by me in the past and by others as well, under appropriate
>threads/posts, so I won't waste any more time on it here.

They've been answered in politician-like language. The answers are long, but don't actually say anything, admit anything or deny anything.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 129 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 03:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Bernie Meyer):
The boing demo was first shown on January 4th, 1984.

20 years (note the lack of a third digit, so by standard scientific rules this means "somewhere between 19.5 inclusive and 20.5 non-inclusive") has passed since then.

Thank you for playing, insert more coins ;-)
Amiga wants you! : Comment 130 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 03:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (dammy):
Thanks for playing, but "In fact, I speculate" is a perfectly valid statement. He was speculating, and that's a fact. Duh. What were you doing when the rest of us had english classes? Trying to get the big boys to hit the small ones by introducing trolling to the playground, maybe?
Amiga wants you! : Comment 131 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 17-Jul-2003 08:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Peter Gordon):
So, the fact that the Amiga community evolved around the computer and it's brand is "utter rubbish"? Well, let's hear your theory about computer user communities then. Simply stating that one person's arguments are nonsense is not very constructrive, I'm afraid.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 132 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 17-Jul-2003 09:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (dammy):
As a Cloanto AmigaForever user, you are an AmigaForever user. Their license is for using "Amiga" *as a part* of their product name and for including the AmigaOS with the kickstart *as a part* of the product, nothing else. That does not make it an Amiga, only an officially approved Amiga emulator. I'm sure even you are intelligent enough to know the difference.

Furthermore, AmigaDE for the Pegasos is never going to happen. Why? Because:

1. Amiga Inc. made a specific list of which products from Thendic-France that their license would support, the Pegasos is NOT on that list.

2. In case of adding a product on that list, the contract made it Thendic-France's obligation to provide Amiga Inc. with the required technical documentation on that specific product. No such technical documentation on the Pegasos has been given to Amiga Inc.

You see, Thendic-France must do their part before accusing Amiga Inc. of breaching the contract. Thendic-France is actually the ones breaching the contract, if you ask me.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 133 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Jul-2003 09:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (samface):
Hey Guy, you make me somewhat angry...Who are you telling us what Kind of Amiga Users wie are? I am using a Pegasos for daily work, an A4k is standing near on my Laptop is UAE...I`ll never going for Aone you know but I am an Amigian. Period!
Amiga wants you! : Comment 134 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 17-Jul-2003 10:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (samface):
Well, the "Amiga Kommunity" can't easily be grouped by a brand name these days, and anyone who thinks it can is just kidding themselves.

Anyway, I meant the things you say generally are hilarious. You're entertaining. Take that as a compliment if you like.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 135 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by jt65 on 17-Jul-2003 10:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Mickael Cromer):
>a software company who especially states that is not doing hardware anymore
>must know at least one simple thing about projects : deadlines...

Like Micro$oft? +20 month delay on a "stupid" cellphone OS that still doesnt work? LOL :)

I'd like to know a software company that isn't out of its deadline
Amiga wants you! : Comment 136 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 17-Jul-2003 14:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Jeff Martin):
>>You lot are so blinkered in you hatred for Amiga Inc that as soon as you see their name mentioned you go in to dick head mode and start slagging them off

Nah I think you'll find they're in dick head mode whether amiga inc are mentioned or not...
Amiga wants you! : Comment 137 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 17-Jul-2003 14:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (dammy):
Oh dammy, just get a life for chrissakes - you must have major issues ;-)
Amiga wants you! : Comment 138 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Jupp3 on 17-Jul-2003 16:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (samface):
Okay... If someone uses his Amiga 1200, he is Amiga user, right?





BUT if he uses it to run MorphOS (or Linux... Or Unix... or whatever)

...is he still Amiga user?
Amiga wants you! : Comment 139 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Mr_Bumpy on 17-Jul-2003 16:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (Jupp3):
Yes; that's an easy one. Also referring to an earlier post, if you own an Amiga 4000 and Pegasos running MorphOS, of course you are an Amiga user. However, being an Amiga user is determined by the fact that you own and use an Amiga 4000.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 140 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Jul-2003 17:35 GMT
> The comical part about the majority of the trolls here is that,> in the earlier days, when I was a developer not associated with Amiga,> I would have killed to have my software or art published on the "Official"> AmigaOS CD. Btw is your AmiFTPd on AmigaOS CD? Would be great have a FTPd bundled with AmigaOS. That would push MOS in the shadows! You could have your best chance now.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 141 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Ray A. Akey on 17-Jul-2003 21:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (Anonymous):
Hmm, you know, I never really thought about it. I should upload a demo to the Amiga Community Exchange.

Thanks for the idea. I'm so busy doing work for Amiga Inc. that I forget my own personal projects sometimes. :)
Amiga wants you! : Comment 142 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Reality on 18-Jul-2003 09:33 GMT
@everybody: Please can you stop smoking the carpet. Particularly Samface :)
Amiga wants you! : Comment 143 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 18-Jul-2003 09:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (samface):
>Why is it so hard to understand that you define the users by the brand of the>product they are using? The Commodore "users" must make a very fine community today - "Hey, look, I amusing a Commodore bureau device, _I_ am member of the real community, not youwith your old C64 box and emulator on PC!" :D
Amiga wants you! : Comment 144 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Jul-2003 11:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (Mr_Bumpy):
"Yes; that's an easy one. Also referring to an earlier post, if you own an Amiga 4000 and Pegasos running MorphOS, of course you are an Amiga user. However, being an Amiga user is determined by the fact that you own and use an Amiga 4000."

Here's the problem right now.
Amiga 4000 running AmigaOS3.9 running Amiga Apps... I think all people would say YES.

Amiga 4000 running Linux... I think most people would say yes as it's Amiga approved/created hardware though being used for Linux. While others say they aren't running Amiga Apps so they're similar to Mac 68K or Sun 68K running Linux and are LInux users.

Amiga Forever running AmigaOS3.x running Amiga Apps... While some people have a problem with this and say no they're not Amiga users. They are using the Amiga OS, are using Amiga Apps, and are running an Amiga Inc approved emulater.

AmigaOne running Linux... Similar to the problem of A4000 running Linux approved hardware but in this case they've approved Linux to run on it. Kind of like Dell making a system and approving Linux or Windows. Either one works and these users typically call themselves a Linux user as they use that OS and they run those apps.

PegasOS w/ MorphOS... They run Amiga Applications and have co-opted or reverse engineered parts of the AmigaOS but the hardware is not approved by Amiga, the OS is not approved by Amiga. Yet they run Amiga Applications. Are they Amigans? Some will say yes some will say not.

Actually perhaps ANN.LU can translate this into a poll.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 145 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 19-Jul-2003 06:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 144 (Anonymous):
Please stop making things more complicated than they have to. An Amiga user is someone using an Amiga product as an Amiga product, period.

Want me to elaborate? Well, ok:

If you use Linux, you are a Linux user, regardless if you use an Amiga, since Linux users are not defined by what hardware they use. However, does that stop you from beeing an Amiga user too? No, if you have Amiga hardware that you dual boot between AmigaOS and Linux, you are obviously a little bit of both.

However, if an Amiga hardware owner removes the OS and never let the hardware function as it was intended, ie only runs Linux or MorphOS, I wouldn't refer to that person as an Amiga user anymore. Sure, he is an Amiga owner, but not an Amiga user. See the difference?

A Pegasos with MorphOS has nothing to do with Amiga besides the ability to run AmigaOS3.x applications. Even somone using an emulator is closer to beeing an Amiga user since atleast he is using the real AmigaOS binaries. Saying that a Pegasos with MorphOS is an Amiga is like saying that I'm Michael Jackson because I can impersonate him really well. Nothing can be more far from the truth, IMO.

It's as simple as that, really.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 146 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 19-Jul-2003 07:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (Anonymous):
You can claim to be a clown for what I care, I'm simply stating facts here.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 147 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 19-Jul-2003 07:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Peter Gordon):
Well, don't refer to the user group by the brand name then. Duh!
Amiga wants you! : Comment 148 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Jul-2003 12:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (samface):
"Please stop making things more complicated " --- It's not me that made the complications. It's the state of the Amiga today. I simply laid out various options w/ associations each one has 'Amiga' attached to it in a unique way. I think you can thank Amiga Inc. and those that came before Amiga Inc. for the fragmentation.

'An Amiga user is someone using an Amiga product as an Amiga product, period. ' -- Appears to make sense on the surface but I think if you dwelve into the idea a bit more.

Maybe we need categories of 'users' divided as I had laid out. It appears there's an Amiga Hardwardware standard, an Amiga Operating System standard, and an Amiga Application standard. MorphOS users support Amiga Applications by purchasing and running those applications. Where Amiga Hardware and Amiga Operating System users support Amiga, Inc. by purchasing and running those items.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 149 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 19-Jul-2003 13:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Anonymous):
But for christ sake, you are saying that your old chevy is a Viper because they can drive on the same roads! Please, the applications are just that; applications. Running DOpus on a PC with Windows through emulation does not somehow turn my Windows PC into an Amiga.

A computer platform user community is a happy bunch of like minded people with an interest in the same computer platform. We're not a happy bunch of users with the same computer platform anymore! The fact that we nowadays are divided into seperate groups of different kind of users with different operating systems and hardware as well as interests supports my argument that we are NOT a part of the same community.

Furthermore, why would it be Amiga Inc.'s fault that people like you has chosen an alternative platform? Don't you make your own choices? Also, alternatives like MorphOS and AROS existed long before the current owners of the brand took over, how could the current Amiga Inc. possibly have prevented it? You are starting to sound like you're simply grasping in thin air for anything to blame them for.
Amiga wants you! : Comment 150 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Jul-2003 13:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 149 (samface):
Running DOpus on a PC with Windows through emulation does not somehow turn my Windows PC into an Amiga.
--- No but if you're purchasing Amiga Applications and using them you are supporting Amiga developers and their business. You're not supporting AI but some would say you're an Amiga User still. Also add on that AI has approved and I assume absorbs some royalties from Amiga Forever on the PC. The question wasn't what is Amiga Hardware the question was what is an Amiga user. Some people have a broader definition then you do.

'The fact that we nowadays are divided into seperate groups of different kind of users with different operating systems and hardware as well as interests supports my argument that we are NOT a part of the same community.'
--- That's one view. The other view is that Amiga Users buy and use software that's developed for the Amiga system on their hardware and the hardware is 'open' to whatever runs Amiga Applications.
I agree that the Amiga community has been divided by the actions of Amiga Inc (Amiga Forever) and further by PegasOS/MorphOS (unlicensed integration). We need to see some leadership to pull the community together. I've heard lots from Amiga Inc of this great AmigaOS 4.0 coming Christmas 2001 then 2 and now 3. Let's see some action.

'Furthermore, why would it be Amiga Inc.'s fault that people like you has chosen an alternative platform? '
Amiga Inc - fault one Amiga Forever approval. According to your first statement you said PC running DOpus isn't an Amiga. Yet, Amiga Inc's action disagree with you as they approved Amiga Forever to be sold. This allows PC's to run the AmigaOS in emulation and thus run DOpus. So, they fractionalized the community by saying use the A1200/A4000T w/ AmigaOS for application OR use PC hardware w/ approved emulation w/ AmigaOS for applications. Fault one to Amiga Inc. for direct action taken and spliting the user base.
Amiga Inc - fault two Amithlon approval. It appears that in some fashion Amiga Inc. may have approved Amithlon for sale. Yes there are disagreements beteen Haage-Partner and Amiga Inc. about this. But, similar to the Amiga Forever, fault two for allowing Amithlon to be. This could be seen as a direct (allowing Amithlon) or indirect (not suing Haage-Partner in court) action of Amiga Inc.
Amiga Inc - fault three missed announced timelines. How many times have we heard a new AmigaOS is coming along with new Amiga hardware? I think this started from Amiga Inc back in 2001. They have failed to supply the desires of the user base. In their time of inaction it allowed breathing room for a competitor to step in ,MorphOS, additionally it appears they have yet to address MorphOS's use of the AmigaOS binaries. Are what people doing to get Amiga Applications to run under MorphOS legal under the copywrite and the EULA for AmigaOS 3.x? Fault three for Amiga, though I give you this isn't directly to their action but indirect fault due to inaction.
So, I hope you can see 3 faults on Amiga Inc. why people were allowed to choose an alternative platform. They directly and indirectly allowed this state.

'Don't you make your own choices? '
--- Yes people make their own choices. However, see the faults above, the choices coming into existence were directly or indirectly an outcome of Amiga Inc.'s action (inaction being an action.)

'alternatives like MorphOS and AROS existed long before the current owners of the brand took over'
--- Really? My recollection is that PegasOS w/ MorphOS combination is under a year old, in it's operational form, I think the current owners of Amiga Inc. took over 3 years ago, if memory serves me correctly. (I did a quick check and there's Executive Updates from Bill McEwen from May of 2000.) I don't think MorphOS is 3 years old? AROS I don't follow so can't clarify on that one.

' how could the current Amiga Inc. possibly have prevented it?'
--- MorphOS is under 3 years old Amiga Inc. could have taken people to court over breaking copywrites or breaking EULA's of it's intellectual property.
--- Amiga Inc. could have shipped a product (AmigaOS 4) in a timely fashion and helped to prevent a pent up demand for a PPC Amiga being filled by a competitor.
--- Amiga Inc. could have not approved Amiga Forever and not approved Amithlon.

Businesses need to look out for their interests. If Amiga Inc considered Amiga Hardware, Amiga OS, and Amiga Applications to be the only true Amiga then they have taken action to push that idea, drive the product to market, and protect intellectual property.

Really you make it sound like Amiga Inc. is free of any responsiblity. I, however, disagree with that concept they have both directly and indirectly caused the question of what is an Amiga User to come into being.
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