29-Mar-2024 09:03 GMT.
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 117 items in your selection (but only 67 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 117]
[Web] Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 availableANN.lu
Posted on 16-Jul-2003 04:11 GMT by Martin 'Senex' Heine117 comments
View flat
View list
Now available is the first CPU upgrade card for the Pegasos. Taking advantage of the flexible, expandable and open architecture, Genesi is delivering a G4 upgrade card to take your computing experiences to the next level! Pegasos G4 CPU Card

Now available is a processor card sporting the Motorola 7447 running at 1Ghz or more. The 7447 is the latest in the 4th generation (G4) PowerPC lineup from Motorola, offering an improved performance base over the previous generation (G3) series of processors. In addition to a larger cache, the 7447 offers more pipelines, an improved front side bus (FSB) and most of all, a SIMD unit called the Altivec. Altivec offers a dedicated on-chip vector engine, capable of delivering over a Gflops (billion floating point operations per second) while remaining affordable to the average user.

We have prepared a PDF document (4.7meg) describing many of the G4 processor's architectural benefits.

A small number of Pegasos 1 / April 2 systems are available with this G4 card for 499 Euros.

Please contact bbrv@genesi.lu if you are interested in this offer.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 51 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 16-Jul-2003 13:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Alfred Schwarz):
>Isn't the Articia not used in embedded devices?
None that I heard of, and normally this community is quite good
at "trainspotting".

>I'm not sure about this, but I don't think MAI will for the
>small amount of AMigaOne/Pegasos1 only.
The Articia is MAI's 1st own chip, and very late on the market.
It also offers nothing that other proven chips don't (except for
minimal built-in AGP, whic is of no use in the embeeded market)

>Doesn't have the Articia that certified by IBM thing? ;-)
Which means "does work with our CPU", something different than
"prefered system controller".


> Just like the Teron developer boards from MAI did.
Nope they did not ! Or why do you think Alan was promoting boards
with "Articis-with-Fix" as Northbridge ;) The orginal Teron was
buggy as hell, the only think still disputed is wether the later
revisions (aka A1) share those bugs, and if the newer Articia is
really better than the old one.


>The Marvell does have some interesting features, but building a
>complete computer around it is just another thing (there's
>still the problem with missing AGP; there's again a difference
>between saying "that's just a couple of wires and a chip" and
>building it for real).
It IS just a couple of wires and a chip. Getting to resonable
speed may need more work, but a minimal AGP out of PCI-X is
rather trivial.


>I'm *really* wondering how they will make it to an end user
>system until September if they didn't have a prototype in July
>(and when bbrv says "Peg2 will be ready in September" I think
>that means end user version, not board layouts, prototypes or
>Betatester 3).
Me too, but most HW-development has to happen BEFORE you built
the 1st proto, or you may and up with a design for the wall
(instead of picture ;).
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 52 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 16-Jul-2003 13:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Amon_Re):
@Amon Re:
"I think you're underestimating the complexity of their work here mate ;) "
I think that most of the work will have to be done adapting the board to use their southbridge... adapting a PCI to use AGP cards seems to be quite easy... I've seen some cards from a far east company and they made geforces agp run as pci... the circuitry looked quite simple... If you want to have real AGP speeds, oh well, that may be a little harder... but I think that compatibility is more important that speed when we talk about AGP... I think I won't notice the difference between let's say AGP2x and AGP8x...

"But i'm pretty sure they'll have something to show in september, and hey, i don't recall them saying what year ;) "

LOL
;-P
:-)
now seriously, they have said Pegasos II will start to be produced in high numbers around october... If they use the same southbridge (well, I'd like USB2.0 but the current southbridge seems to be quite good) MorphOS will only need a few drivers to work in the new board (for the pcis, agp, ethernet gigabit and timers, correct me if I'm wrong...) so the software side should be relatively easy to finish... the hardware side is the main problem, but I think we can be sure that we will have PegasosII for sale in Christmas (hopefully sooner)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 53 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 16-Jul-2003 13:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Kronos):
> The Articia is MAI's 1st own chip

I'm wondering where MAI gets it's money for developing, it cannot be from a few Teron/AmigaOne/Pegasos1 boards, that's sure.
So I think they are selling something more, and I think they wouldn't develop new Articia chips if the "old" Articia S wasn't used somewhere, there must be a demand for them.
Just my two cents.

> Nope they did not!

They did, at least in the beginning until someone started to really work with it, porting Linux etc. I don't know what state the Marvell prototypes are, I always understood bbrv when he wrote about the "Marvell samples" that he/she/it/they ment "samples from the Marvell chips", not complete boards. I have not seen any statement that they have any working PPC board with Marvell chips somewhere.

> The orginal Teron was buggy as hell

Yes, probably, but nobody noticed it because there was no OS ;-)

> AGP out of PCI-X is rather trivial.

Ah, I think you did it already many times?
"trivial" does not mean "works". There is nothing "rather trivial" in creating a complete board, a "simple" wire can make a lot of difference4s in timing and trash a lot of things. This "rather trivial" thing was a comment in a forum, it still has to be proven to be correct.

> Me too, but most HW-development has to happen BEFORE you built the 1st proto

Of course; again, a great example of theoretical design and building something is the Mercedes A modell (don't know if the story is well known outside of germany; in short: the series modell showed serious problems with the chassis that were cured with using ESP, the April fix from Mercedes at that time).

Ciao, Alfred
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 54 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-Jul-2003 13:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Alfred Schwarz):
>I don't know what state the Marvell prototypes are

The Marvell development system has already been presented at last year's Smart
Networks Developer Forum in July 2002.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 55 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Joël EHRET on 16-Jul-2003 14:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Crumb // AAT):
and firmware???
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 56 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-Jul-2003 14:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Crumb // AAT):
"The problem I see with the AmigaOne is price, if the PegasosII is released at that prices Eyetech should sell AmigaOnes cheaper..."

They should sell it at a price that brings in a reasonable profit on each board, otherwise there is no point in selling it at all. Rather than sell at a loss, Alan would be better off putting his money in the bank.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 57 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 16-Jul-2003 14:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Alfred Schwarz):
"I'm wondering where MAI gets it's money for developing, it cannot be from a few Teron/AmigaOne/Pegasos1 boards, that's sure.
So I think they are selling something more, and I think they wouldn't develop new Articia chips if the "old" Articia S wasn't used somewhere, there must be a demand for them.
Just my two cents. "

Scenario: failure. They develop a new one based on experience in the market and customer feedback. They need a new one to be competitive, and this is their best chance for success.

Scenario: success. They do a follow-up based on an earlier success and hope to continue evolving in this dynamic marketplace. They need a new one.

Can't tell anything because they are developing a new one, need more facts to make a conclusion.

I would be surpised if Mai is more than one guy, desigining chips in his basement, probably wears his pajama's all day long.

Is that an extraordinarily bad guess? probably...it is a terrible guess, but nevertheless its a bit like 'the price is right' sometimes the best guess will be the person who just guess Zero dollars, cause the operation is so small you just cannot be too far off from the truth if you stick to a zero baseline.

Mai is a small player, we do know they are fooling around with eyetech and, earlier, terrasoft, so they aren't that big. Hopefully their products will be successful, but not so successful that it doesn't make any economic sense for them to continue fooling around with eyetech.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 58 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 16-Jul-2003 14:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Kronos):
"The orginal Teron was buggy as hell, the only think still disputed is wether the later revisions (aka A1) share those bugs, and if the newer Articia is
really better than the old one."

Proof?

"It IS just a couple of wires and a chip. Getting to resonable
speed may need more work, but a minimal AGP out of PCI-X is
rather trivial."

Willing to give us some schematics or simulations to back this up?
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 59 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 16-Jul-2003 17:47 GMT
There sure are a LOT of hardware experts in this community - evidently I'm about the only one AROUND that hasn't designed, simulated, played with FPGAs, built prototypes, or made his way to final silicon ; }...

Anyway, I hear that many otters in the telecomm industry are using solutions with the Marvell on the motherboard, the popularity established because of good GigE ports in the northbridge ... So maybe the weasels aren't into them, but the OTTERS are.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 60 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Francois Prowse on 16-Jul-2003 19:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (greenboy):
Marvell certainly have more of an established reputation in this industry that MAI could ever hope for.

They were (up until recently) the sole provider of GigE components to Intel among others and from what I hear are very keen on the Pegasos and providing all the necessary assistance to Genesi to ensure success.

Marvell having an engineering presence in Germany can't hurt either....

Francois
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 61 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 16-Jul-2003 20:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (greenboy):
Let's have Olegil test for the dma bug on his amiga one (hahahaha).
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 62 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 16-Jul-2003 20:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (David Scheibler):
Scheibler, you are about to be proven spectacularly wrong.

I for one cannot wait for the Pegasos 2 to come out.

I wonder who will be blamed then for all the problems.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 63 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-Jul-2003 21:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
What? You updated your via-test program? ;-)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 64 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 22:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Olegil):
>Don't tell me they haven't had problems with that slot, please. Can you specify your problems?The slot is no proprietary thing and it was proven to run with DDR266 FSB, right? >I doubt they will make that CPU slot run 166MHz FSB (which both the G3 and the>G4 now handles, and afaik the Marvell also supports it?). It's your right to doubt as long as everything is still vaporware.The Marvell chip can run at 133MHz FSB at least and I have seen 150MHz and 166MHz(for MIPS) numbers, too. Anyone knows how Pegasos clock multiplier can be set? Does the BIOS/OF have hiddenoptions or is it hardware-locked?
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 65 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 22:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Alfred Schwarz):
>As they had to make changes to the G4 card to make it work with at least some>April2 Peg1 boards Source/proof please? >they surely do not want to put the old G3/600MHz in the new Peg2 Sure they do - as a cheap lowend option. >they could simply make a new G4 card for Peg2 only. _If_ the card is able to support both MPX and higher FSB I see no reason not touse it for either board.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 66 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 22:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Alfred Schwarz):
>AFAIR that was an early ATX (not miniATX) Pegasos prototype (with two CPU>sockets, based mainly on the Teron design) and the G4 card has "Sonnet" on>it, there exists a picture somewhere. That thing didn't have much to do with>the April2 Peg1 G4 from today. Ok, so if the board back then had problems, too, what then? :-)Blame the noncommercial prototype? Blame bplan's f* up engineering skills?Blame the "old" Articia?>bbrv tells us that the G4 does not work in all Peg1 boards but he doesn't say>it's the Articia to blame He tells it's mainly an Articia problem, indeed. :-) >let's hope Genesi will really put (working) AGP on the board AGP might die with the introduction of PCI-Express, but well...
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 67 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 22:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Amon_Re):
>Customers come nagging all the time for more boards, but wait, still got some>old Peg1's! lets sell those with the G4 card (for whom they probably had a>prototype laying arround for months) to fill the gap. Why not start a rumour "Hey, look - Genesi has no money anymore so they mustsell their last development machines with a hacked together G4 card thatsometimes runs and sometimes doesn't"? :o)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 68 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 22:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Amon_Re):
>Oh, about the L2 cache, that *is* a valid point Wait, didn't they once say G4 L2 cache won't work with Pegasos? :-)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 69 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 22:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Amon_Re):
>noicelevels perhaps interfering with the rest? Cannot be since it had "CE" certification from the very beginning...
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 70 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 23:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Olegil):
>which is the ONLY valid reason to choose a G4 over a new G3 CPU, considering>how all the other improvements have been "backported", Oh, can G3 do SMP efficiently? Or does it have a full 64Bit FPU? What about MPXand out of order pipelined memory access? Is it sold at 1.4GHz, too? >and it consumes 4-5 times as much power Maybe the AmigaOne G4...Pegasos G4 apparently has a CPU with lower voltage than G3 so its power consumptionshould be directly comparable.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 71 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 23:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Wayne Hunt):
>With all due respect, how could you possibly know what Genesi does, or does>not have in their laboratories? http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=368&page=13"There are NO prototypes yet. However, we do have samples from Marvell."
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 72 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 23:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Amon_Re):
>one badly laid out trace can give unwanted interference that can wreck havoc>in aperantly unrelated parts of the machine. Let's hope they have no Siemens PCBs. ;-)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 73 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 23:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Amon_Re):
>Link please ;) http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/thread/AN-2003-07-00002-DE.html
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 74 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 23:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Crumb // AAT):
>IMHO the PegasosII board will be better (3gigabit Ethernets ...yum yum) Don't you commit suicide if these won't have 3x Gigabit Ethernet! ;-)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 75 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 23:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Amon_Re):
>and hey, i don't recall them saying what year ;) That's not true, they explicitely said 2003 more often than not! :-D
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 76 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 23:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Kronos):
>The Articia is MAI's 1st own chip, and very late on the market. What about http://www.openppc.org/datasheets/AureateGX_v2.0r12.pdf then?
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 77 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 23:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Alfred Schwarz):
>> The orginal Teron was buggy as hell>Yes, probably, but nobody noticed it because there was no OS ;-) http://www.bplan-gmbh.de/news/news04_e.html >in short: the series modell showed serious problems with the chassis that were>cured with using ESP, the April fix from Mercedes at that time What a nice comparison...now more and more car companies adopt ESP but Eyetechand MAI simply refuse April fix. ;-p
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 78 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 23:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Don Cox):
>Rather than sell at a loss What loss, the board is years old PC technology, really.Oh I forgot, he has to recover "AmigaOne" licensing cost and also the failedfirst AmigaOne attempt...
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 79 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 23:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>Scheibler, you are about to be proven spectacularly wrong. Hey, shall we start calling your employees also just "Haeuser" again? :-pI'm looking forward to your proof, want to tell us again exactly how manyMarvell Northbridges bplan has in possession? :-D
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 80 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 02:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (takemehomegrandma):
There's a bit of difference between designing something yourself and being in full control, but I guess only those of us who have ever designed a large or expensive piece of equipment will know that...

So far my device seems to be working as it should, but thank heavens it's not larger than it is...
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 81 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 02:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Alfred Schwarz):
I didn't know Mercedes had Extra Sensory Perception.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 82 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 02:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Crumb // AAT):
Read my comment again. I never said that. I never even came close to hinting at it.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 83 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 02:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (MIKE):
Me testing for DMA bugs wouldn't prove anything, since I technically don't have an AmigaOne. This is a Teron with OS4-enabled firmware (it doesn't even have the same southbridge as the AmigaOne, and there's no working onboard ethernet)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 84 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 02:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Anonymous):
Until someone makes a PCI-X graphics card you can ACTUALLY BUY IN SHOPS, AGP won't die.

I mean, Intel make dual Xeons with PCI-X and AGP, there's a reason for that ;-)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 85 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 02:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Anonymous):
If you for a microsecond think that CE certification has ANYTHING to do with whether the device has problems like that or not, you've never designed electronics. Beeep, wrong answer. Next!
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 86 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 02:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Anonymous):
He was right the last time, so why not?
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 87 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Joël EHRET on 17-Jul-2003 04:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Olegil):
He made a little mistake, he was probably talking about FCC...
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 88 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 17-Jul-2003 05:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Anonymous):
"Don't you commit suicide if these won't have 3x Gigabit Ethernet! ;-)"
of course! I can't live without that ;-)
I still don't know how can I be alive without that now :-D
It would be a pity that Genesi dropped the idea of including 3 Gigabit ethernets because the machine would sell quite well as linux firewall...
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 89 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 05:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Joël EHRET):
Nah, he made a big mistake. Neither the FCC or CE defines anything INSIDE the PCB. They define tolerances to and from outside equipment, not whether or not two traces on the PCB can have crosstalk problems. Seriously, don't even try to use CE as an argument against bad designs...
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 90 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 06:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Olegil):
Also, I now notice that the Marvell doesn't support 166MHz either, so just forget anything about this :-)

Hmm, that's a big speed penalty for the newer G4 processors... :-(
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 91 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Jul-2003 10:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Crumb // AAT):
>It would be a pity that Genesi dropped the idea of including 3 Gigabit ethernets>because the machine would sell quite well as linux firewall... And you need a third port for that?
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 92 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Jul-2003 10:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Anonymous):
Well, a gigE switch would cost money, and we all know half of us are gonna get the Peg2 for free, right? I mean, then it's just right to include at least 24 gigE ports, anything less is a violation of my rights as a non-paying customer ;-)

Disclaimer:
If you took any of that seriously, you need a life.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 93 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 17-Jul-2003 10:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Anonymous):
I find my explication more plausable

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 94 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 17-Jul-2003 10:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Anonymous):
> AGP might die with the introduction of PCI-Express, but well...

PCI-Express != PCI-X, Marvell has PCI-X.

Ciao, Alfred
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 95 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 17-Jul-2003 10:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Anonymous):
I remember vaguely a mentioning of L2 somewhere, but don't remember...

Anyone remember this?

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 96 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 17-Jul-2003 10:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Anonymous):
CE certification doesn't mean the board can't suffer *from* interference, especially if said interference comes from itself ;)

Believe me, these things tend to happen :)

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 97 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 17-Jul-2003 10:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Anonymous):
Crap, it's german... ;(

(no offence to german people, it's just that my german sucks ;P)

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 98 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 17-Jul-2003 10:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Anonymous):
ESP has been proven to be a valid technology, April hasn't ;P

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 99 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 17-Jul-2003 10:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Anonymous):
> http://www.bplan-gmbh.de/news/news04_e.html

I don't get you point here. Didn't we talk about the early Teron prototypes?

> What a nice comparison...now more and more car companies adopt ESP but Eyetech
and MAI simply refuse April fix. ;-p

There are cars that do not need ESP because the engineers know what they are doing (and the crowing amount of cars with ESP is of course also a marketing, the customer asks for it) and other cars with bad chassis that need ESP to not crash (A modell, Smart). ESP is thought as an add on for higher security but sometimes used for making a bad design work.
You may now think what I meant when comparing April fix with ESP, you can be shure I didn't mean every sold Computer should have a April chip for higher security.

Ciao, Alfred
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 100 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 17-Jul-2003 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Olegil):
Well it has many things todo if you are allowed to sell a product actually in
the EU.
Anonymous, there are 117 items in your selection (but only 67 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 117]
Back to Top