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[News] Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWestANN.lu
Posted on 19-Jul-2003 11:30 GMT by SplitHAM (Edited on 2003-07-19 16:52:05 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä)248 comments
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Apparently Bill McEwen will not be showing at AmiWest, according to Amiga.com. AmigaWest Update - July 19, 2003

Welcome to AmiWest 2003! This is another opportunity for the the Amiga community and the rest of the world to see AmigaOS 4.0 demonstrated for the first time. That is correct, Amiga Operating System Version 4.0, along with the AmigaOne hardware, is a giant step forward for Amiga users.

I look forward to hearing or reading your thoughts and opinions on these products. We are very pleased with the progress and believe that you will like the demonstration at AmiWest and further enjoy the AmigaOS 4 experience once the product is released.

Regrettably, my plans have changed and I will not be attending AmiWest this year. I have informed the organizers of AmiWest and they were very understanding. However, in my absence, Amiga will be well-represented at the event.

I hope that you all enjoy AmiWest. I will miss being there, as AmiWest holds a very special place in my heart in regard to my affiliation with Amiga and the community. I wish you all a very enjoyable time in Sacramento.

God Bless,
Bill McEwen
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 151 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jul-2003 17:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Sure! right after you lick my Royal Chocolate StarFish.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 152 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 20-Jul-2003 17:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (T_Bone):
Damn! Now you got me bickering about nothing again...

>> T_Bone, the product which the rebate is for hasn't been properly released
>> yet. Atleast give them a chance to honor the rebate before judging them.
>
>They said they'd send out the coupons and T-shirt a YEAR ago. They've had
>plenty of chances. They didn't say they'd wait to send them out untill the
>AmigaOne was released and never have, they were very specific about when
>they'd be sent out.

The T-Shirt issue is an entirely different issue. Please don't expand this issue that doesn't even concern you to begin with any further.

>> 1. I didn't even talk about wether expecting to get what you pay for would
>> be reasonable or not.
>
>Samface:"May I ask why these people are so dissatisfied in a reasonable
>manner?"
>Me:"What's unreasonable about wanting what you paid for?"
>That wasn't you?

That was me but that was NOT your initial respons. You said "LOL". The correct quote would be:

Samface: "May I ask why these people are so dissatisfied in a reasonable manner?"
T_Bone: "LOL!"
Samface: "Reasonable indeed..."

>> I said that "LOL" as a response is not very reasonable, NOTHING ELSE!!!!!!!!
>
>Yes, your whole "I thought 'LOL' was the answer" was slightly amusing, but it
>doesn't change the fact that "Wanting what you paid for" is perfectly
>reasonable.

I did NOT think of your "LOL" as an answer, I said that it wasn't a very reasonable RESPONSE. Your "wanting what you paid for" statement is NOT what I'm talking about and it never was. How many times do I have to repeat it until it gets into your head?

Wanting what you paid for is of course very reasonable, but wether this is the reason of those 250 people wanting their money back is not something you would know. Their specific reason could just as well be something completely different, so please don't try to speak on their behalf.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 153 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 20-Jul-2003 17:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 149 (T_Bone):
Of course I don't have proof. If you are a Club Amiga member, why don't you just say so? However, this simply doesn't seem very likely, for some reason. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 154 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by LS on 20-Jul-2003 17:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (T_Bone):
"It IS sad."
Yepp

"Why don't Amiga just send out the coupons and shirts like they agreed to before they took everyone's money, and this could be put to *REST* for good.

Easy. "

Well I wonder.......wonder if they even have the list of buyers anymore??
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 155 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 20-Jul-2003 17:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 153 (samface):
> Of course I don't have proof.

Oh, well you remember how adament you are about proof.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 156 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 20-Jul-2003 17:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 152 (samface):
> Damn! Now you got me bickering about nothing again...

I'll say.

> The T-Shirt issue is an entirely different issue. Please don't expand this
> issue that doesn't even concern you to begin with any further.

How is the T-shirt not relevant to the class action being started because he feels they're not getting what they paid for?

>>Samface:"May I ask why these people are so dissatisfied in a reasonable
>>manner?"
>>Me:"What's unreasonable about wanting what you paid for?"
>>That wasn't you?

> That was me but that was NOT your initial respons. You said "LOL". The
> correct quote would be:

> Samface: "May I ask why these people are so dissatisfied in a reasonable
> manner?"
> T_Bone: "LOL!"
> Samface: "Reasonable indeed..."

We're back to this childishness again? The "LOL" answer. How perule.
You still haven't explained how people wanting what they paid for is unreasonable.

> I did NOT think of your "LOL" as an answer,

oh. then why'd you never respond to the answer "they want what they paid for"? was that too reasonable for you, so you'd rather work with "LOL"?

> I said that it wasn't a very reasonable RESPONSE.

You ignored the reasonable response, and choose to grandstand on "LOL".

> Your "wanting what you paid for" statement is NOT what I'm talking about

Why not?

> and it never was.

Why not?

> How many times do I have to repeat it until it gets into your head?

Untill you stop granstanding on "LOL" and answer why "getting what you paid for" is unreasonable.

> Wanting what you paid for is of course very reasonable,

Ah, Glad we cleared that up.

> but wether this is the reason of those 250 people wanting their money back is not something you would know.

Ah. you think they have a "secret reason." rather than just wanting what they paid for. Gotcha.

> Their specific reason could just as well be something completely different,

I see. They might NOT want what they paid for, they are just pretending. gotcha.

> so please don't try to speak on their behalf.

Me? Wouldn't dream of it. You on the otherhand are suggesting they want something "other" than what they say they want.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 157 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 20-Jul-2003 17:56 GMT
@ Samface

What is it that you think you are doing?

Defending Amiga Inc.?

Do you really feel that Amiga Inc is so in need of your help?

That must be an exercize in contridiction and frustration for you.Considering that you are in no position to control what they do and don't do.

Many people, including myself, have experience that speaks far louder than anything you can say or do to undo that negative experience.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 158 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Ray A. Akey on 20-Jul-2003 18:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"I won't reveal my sources"

Hmmm.. Isn't that contrary to what you and your buddies slag Amiga and supporters about? Saying things without validity? And now you won't supply something to let people get independant verification/validation?

Yeah, that smells rosy.. (not)

If you can't prove it, can it.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 159 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jul-2003 18:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (Ray A. Akey):
So when are you going to actually reply to my EMails, Ray, asking how I can get my sCAM payment refunded?

I have emailed you (at your suggestion) THREE times so far and heard nothing back from you (no surprises there).
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 160 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Ray A. Akey on 20-Jul-2003 18:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 159 (Anonymous):
Mr. anonymous, if I could grok your email address or identity from that little post, I would gladly answer you, but since I cannot discern your identity, I cannot verify receiving your email.

If you can give me something with which to verify your custom, I would be glad to do so.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 161 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 20-Jul-2003 18:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 156 (T_Bone):
1. When did I say that getting what you paid for would be unresonable? I did NOT, period. So, why do you keep asking me why it would? I NEVER SAID THAT.

2. You can claim a refund for many reasons like; it's taking too long, I've changed my mind because alternative x seems better, I simply cannot afford it, I'm sick of the entire Amiga community and don't want to have anything to do with it anymore, etc. Please don't be so narrow minded, T_Bone. Amiga Inc. isn't the cause for everything evil in this world, you know. Noone is.

3. The T-shirts and the $50 rebates are different issues because it was made clear from the beginning that the $50 rebates wouldn't be available until the products were available while the T-shirts would be delivered once they knew how many to order and so forth. Yes, the T-shirts have been delayed by way too far, but then, it's just a bloody T-shirt! Anyway, seems like they are finally starting to ship now if you believe in the latest news.

Why do you have to make this into such a flame war? Haven't we been through this many times before?
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 162 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 20-Jul-2003 18:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 157 (3seas):
I'm trying to fight rumours and FUD rather than defending someone. Again, this is just like the reasoning that not loving someone would be the same thing as hating him. It's not.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 163 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 20-Jul-2003 18:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (samface):
The problem is, you're creating more FUD and rumors rather than stomping them out.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 164 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 20-Jul-2003 18:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (samface):
> 1. When did I say that getting what you paid for would be unresonable?

When you started second guessing the intentions of the suit.

> 2. You can claim a refund for many reasons

He specifically stated "We just want what we paid for", not a refund, not anything other than "We just want what we paid for."

> 3. The T-shirts and the $50 rebates are different issues

They're part of the same deal, you have to fullfill all criteria you agreed to before you've held up your end of the deal.

> Why do you have to make this into such a flame war? Haven't we been through
> this many times before?

What flamewar? aside from your Attention Deficit Disorder acting up over the word "LOL" it's been a simple discussion.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 165 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 20-Jul-2003 18:42 GMT
"Yes, the T-shirts have been delayed by way too far, but then, it's just a bloody T-shirt! Anyway, seems like they are finally starting to ship now if you believe in the latest news."

What kind of news? You know, spreading false news for ppl to wait instead of claiming back their money is just as bad as FUD, so I hope you have an url at hand.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 166 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by acg on 20-Jul-2003 20:22 GMT
Ta-da....just dawned on me........latest FUD issue...

I would bet a coupla dollars that the real reason OS4 is delayed and there is no hurry to get it going....Hyperion is waiting for AmigaINC to go under...and get the rights to everything (along with the other creditors)...

Probably just a matter of weeks....any body out there want to flame me????
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 167 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 20-Jul-2003 20:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 166 (acg):
> Ta-da....just dawned on me........latest FUD issue...
> I would bet a coupla dollars that the real reason OS4 is delayed and there
> is no hurry to get it going....Hyperion is waiting for AmigaINC to go
> under...and get the rights to everything (along with the other creditors)...
> Probably just a matter of weeks....any body out there want to flame me????

If Amiga goes bankrupt, there's a chance the bankruptcy court could stop OS4 from being released as an AmigaOS. Hyperion says their deal is Bankruptcy-proof, but there's no such beast. All deals and contracts become null and void upon bankruptcy.

Then there's a chance that if Amiga go bankrupt Genesi might buy the rights to Amiga, and release Morphos as Amigaos, so no I doubt Hyperion wants anything other than Amiga's success. In fact, they apparently want it more than Amiga. :)
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 168 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 20-Jul-2003 21:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 167 (T_Bone):
FUD. No point in giving such a post the credit of beeing discuss worthy. It's just FUD, that's all.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 169 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by ACG on 20-Jul-2003 21:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 167 (T_Bone):
Yeah....but Hyperion is in a good position......if Amiga owes them money....

If AoS 4 comes out and sells lots, then Amiga,INC. has money to pay Hyperion,
and if AOS4 doesn't come out, and Amiga, INC goes down the toilet....well, Hyperion would have one of the first claims against IP...which could be AOS4
rights, which puts them in the Amiga drivers seat....Add Eyetech, and it wouldn't be a bad replacement....

Eyetech could be thinking along the same lines.......

And maybe AINC. knows this and is trying to get funding to pay off its creditors so this whole thing can move ahead....

The oddest thing about this whole humoungous affair (10 year affair) is that with all the folks who said they would do this or that with Amiga...no one has actually followed completely through.... There's gotta be some competent guy who made lots of money on some computer program, has a small company, knows how to run a small business who will be able to run with the ball....It seems like only blowhards, and pretenders have gravitated towards the reins....
or is it the (soto voce) "CURSE"?
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 170 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jul-2003 21:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (samface):
Care to explain why, Spamface?

Or do you simply continue sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "FUD!" when someone says something you don't like?

FACT - if AInc goes bankrupt, Hyperion's AOS4 contract *IS* in jeapordy. FACt, Spamface, not FUD.

Deal with it.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 171 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 21-Jul-2003 00:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (samface):
People were always right about one thing... That I should not bother with you...
I sadly did that mistake and wasted LOT'S of hours on your stupidity...
Why bother? When anyone says something you don't like you shout "FUD!".
When anyone post a fact you don't like, based on Amiga's words for example
you twist those words... There's nothing logical with your behaviour.
I was a very loyal Amiga *INC* fan and defended them but I NEVER got that far...
Who do you think you are? A superhero trying to save the Amiga from the jaws of
evil? Whatever... Enough...
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 172 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 01:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (samface):
> FUD.

So? it's a hypothetical discussion. lighten up.

> No point in giving such a post the credit of beeing discuss worthy. It's
> just FUD, that's all.

You need to learn what FUD means, and not wear out it's use, anyways just because something causes Fear, uncertainty, and doubt, doesn't mean that the detail is untrue or unimportant.

I can tell my neighbor that he shouldn't use vinyl gutters becaus they're not strong enough to hold as much snow as the aluminum ones, and just because it's FUD doesn't mean that it's not true and very good advice. :)
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 173 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 01:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 169 (ACG):
> Hyperion would have one of the first claims against IP

If Amiga were to liquidate it's assets for bankruptcy, there would be no preferential inheritance, IP rights would go to the highest bidder.

Sure, that might be Hyperion, but it could be anyone really. microsoft loves these type of auctions :O
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 174 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 04:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 173 (T_Bone):
I can't believe the ignorance of some people. Now what in Gods name do you know about the contract between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion? And exactly where is your law degree? You know NOTHING, yet you claim to know. This is so stupid.

As I said, FUD.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 175 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 04:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 171 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Where is the FACT that I referd to as FUD? No, T_Bone's speculations is NOT facts. Try again.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 176 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 04:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 170 (Anonymous):
That is NOT a fact, only a theory at best until you have actual facts to back it up. You deal with it.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 177 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 05:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 165 (Emeric SH):
>http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1058725442&category=unmoderated&start=1&40

I said according to as in this is not verified yet. I simply assumed people had already read it and therefore didn't think I would have post the URL too.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 178 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 05:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (Nate Downes):
Yes, *F*ear that Amiga Inc. is not trying to scam you, be *u*ncertain that Bill McEwan is still the CEO, and *D*oubt Bill Buck's claim that their investor's would have replaced the entire managment.

I'm sorry but that was the funniest use of the word FUD that I've ever seen. How could positive thinking possibly be FUD?
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 179 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Tigger on 21-Jul-2003 05:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 176 (samface):
>>>
That is NOT a fact, only a theory at best until you have actual facts to back it up. You deal with it.
>>>

Any and all contracts with a company which declares bankruptcy can become Null & Void. You cant write a bankruptcy proof contract, the laws are in place to stop you from doing that, that US Bankruptcy law 101. Sorry but if Amiga Inc goes bankrupt the contract with Hyperion can just go away, in addition, the licensing with Gateway may just disappear depending on who owns what and what is just licensed.
Read about US bankruptcy laws before responding with comments that sound like you are 1 year old who likes chocolate.
-Tig
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 180 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 05:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 174 (samface):
> I can't believe the ignorance of some people. Now what in Gods name do you
> know about the contract between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion? And exactly where
> is your law degree? You know NOTHING, yet you claim to know. This is so
> stupid.
> As I said, FUD.

My, but arn't you persistant?

I'll let it slide this time, since you're not in the US and don't know how our bankruptcy laws work, but the next time I'll be annoyed. :D

When a company files for bankruptcy, all contracts and licenses become null and void. There's no such thing as a "bankruptcy proof" contract. that's just the way ir works. Period. No use getting upset over it.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 181 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 05:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 178 (samface):
> I'm sorry but that was the funniest use of the word FUD that I've ever seen.
> How could positive thinking possibly be FUD?

You didn't read my example? Ok, I apologise, I'll break it down into bite size pieces for you. If you have any questions just ask! After all, that's how we learn! :D

You see, If I tell my neighbor, that Vinyl gutters arn't as strong as Aluminum ones, that's FUD, because it creates fear, uncertainty, and doubt about the vinyl gutter.

Is that helpfull to my neighbor? You bet.
Is it productive and informative information? You betcha.
Is it accurate and truthfull? Sure is!
it's also FUD.

Stay tuned for tomorrows lesson, where we learn colors. Sponsored by the letter "J" Copyright 2003 The Childrens Television Workshop
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 182 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jul-2003 05:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 181 (T_Bone):
LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!!
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 183 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 05:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 181 (T_Bone):
But then, what you are saying is NOTHING BUT FUD. You specualtions are not based on facts, does not relate to anything factual, is a hypothetical theory about future events, and is not useful for anyone. Am I getting through to you yet?
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 184 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 06:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 179 (Tigger):
You really shouldn't practice law since you don't have a degree. Furthermore, you don't even know what the contracts says to begin with. The contract could just as well say that Hyperion already are part owners of the brand or whatever, neither you or I knows. PLEASE STOP SPECULATING!

It was an actual laywer with an actual degree that wrote the contract, I prefer listening to him rather than YOU. You may call it biased, I call it knowing where to put my trust.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 185 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 06:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 182 (Anonymous):
Interesting post, someone is laughing. Let me get my notepad so I can write it down...
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 186 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jul-2003 06:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 184 (samface):
SpamFace, so desperate are you in your desire to worship AInc that you are now saying that US law does not apply to US companies when they file for bankrupcy in teh US?

Interesting...

Spamface, the plain fact of the matter is that (unless Hyperion actually own all rights to AOS, which we know they do not) *if* AInc goes under, then Hyperion's contract with AInc regarding AOS becomes immediately null and void.

FACT, Spamface, whether you want it to be true or not.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 187 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 06:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 186 (Anonymous):
An anonymous person claims to know U.S. law... Well that settles it, now doesn't it? *sigh*
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 188 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 06:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 183 (samface):
> But then, what you are saying is NOTHING BUT FUD.

It's a Hypothetical situation Samface, how can something hypothetical be FUD?

> You specualtions are not based on facts,

Yes it is. When a company goes bankrupt, there is no contract that can be assured will still be valid after the bankruptcy, that's what a bankruptcy is FOR, Samface.

> does not relate to anything factual,

Are you grasping it's hypothetical yet? hopefully it'll click soon!

> is a hypothetical theory

WHEW! I knew you'd catch on eventually! A gold star for samface! Keep up the good work!

> about future events,

No, about *hypothetical* events, nobody knows WHAT will happen in the future, or if anything we're talking about will happen, that's what the word hyp-o-the-ti-cal means.

> and is not useful for anyone.

It's usefull to you! Look at all you've learned today!

1) "LOL" means "laugh out loud"
2) Hypothetical
3) Contracts cannot be written to circumvent a bankruptcy
4) Colors

Whoops! We didn't get to the colors yet, We'll do that tomorrow, you've had a busy day today!

> Am I getting through to you yet?

You see? learning is Fun!
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 189 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 06:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 186 (Anonymous):
For example, if the contract means that Hyperion now are part owners (or something like that) of the AmigaOS IP, the demise of Amiga Inc. would not cancel Hyperion's *ownership*. But then, I am NOT a laywer and I do NOT know what the contract says, which means that we are all SPECULATING without knowing anything at all. So shut up about it already!
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 190 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jul-2003 06:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 189 (samface):
"I am NOT a laywer and I do NOT know what the contract says"

Exactly, Spamface.

So why on earth do you keep going on and on as if you knew everything about it, eh?

Face facts Spamface - you know nothing about what would happen in the event of bankrupcy proceedings against AInc. So why do you carry on posting your "authoritative" analysis of what you wish might happen (which you present as facts), and then condemn other people when they point out the real facts of the matter?

Tell us, spamface - how much IS AInc paying you to post all this, eh?
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 191 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 06:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 188 (T_Bone):
You are making a complete fool out of yourself, T_Bone. Read your own post, is that really the words of someone interested in objective judgements and reasoning?

FUD is usually indeed hypothetical, FUD is about instigating anything that would cause Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Sure, you can fear the facts, but hardly be uncertain and doubt it. That's why most FUD usually is completely hypothetical or unverified theories (ie rumours, lies, conspiracy theories, etc.).

That is the end of my discussion with you, T_Bone.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 192 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 06:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 189 (samface):
> For example, if the contract means that Hyperion now are part owners (or
> something like that) of the AmigaOS IP, the demise of Amiga Inc. would not
> cancel Hyperion's *ownership*.

That would be illegal. the bankruptcy court would nullify it. You see, it's illegal to transfer assets to shelter them from bankruptcy, and it would also, in addition to being a discresion of bankruptcy court, would be considering fraud, by both the bankruptcy court *and* the investors who've had their assets transferred out from under them.

I'm afraid it's just not that easy to abuse the bankruptcy laws, Samface.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 193 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 06:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 190 (Anonymous):
LOL! Now that was an interesting twist to the story.

>"I am NOT a laywer and I do NOT know what the contract says"
>
>Exactly, Spamface.
>
>So why on earth do you keep going on and on as if you knew everything about
>it, eh?

For christ sake, you even quoted proof of the exact opposite to your claim about me in the same post! Can't you see that my point was exactly that; that we don't know? Obviously not. Get your head examined or something.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 194 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 06:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 192 (T_Bone):
Read my lips:

Speculation will get us nowhere and causes nothing but FUD.

If you keep going despite knowing the above fact, you obviously have an agenda rather than beeing interested in knowing the truth and nothing but the truth.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 195 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 06:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 191 (samface):
> You are making a complete fool out of yourself, T_Bone. Read your own post,
> is that really the words of someone interested in objective judgements and
> reasoning?

Isn't that cute? He wants to be like the grown-ups. :D

> FUD is usually indeed hypothetical,

No it's not. Most FUD is actually bona-fide Fact. Hypothetical situations don't cause Fear, Uncertainty, or Doubt about real-world issues, because the scenario presented is make-believe, hypothetical.

If someone is Lying to cause one to distrust something, we call it a "Lie", even if it may cause the "big 3" in addition to being untrue.

> FUD is about instigating anything that would cause Fear, Uncertainty and
> Doubt.

Has nothing to do with "instigating", simply sharing information can cause the "big 3"

> Sure, you can fear the facts, but hardly be uncertain and doubt it.

You most certainly can. In our previous lesson we learned about vinyl gutters. We can doubt that the vinyl gutters will be good enough after hearing the *fact* that they arn't as strong as aluminum. We doubt, but at the same time, we are uncertain, because, you see, we haven't actually tried it yet.

> That's why most FUD usually is completely hypothetical or unverified
> theories (ie rumours, lies, conspiracy theories, etc.).

No, I'm afraid we already *have* words for those, "rumors","lies","conspiracy theories", etc. We have different words to describe different things. Use your words, Samface :D

> That is the end of my discussion with you, T_Bone.

No charge for todays lessons.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 196 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 06:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 195 (T_Bone):
Facts are not facts until they have been verified as facts. You are using *hypothetical* facts, which per definition is not facts, it's called theories.

Facts can not be uncertain or doubful in itself because then it is NOT facts to begin with.

This is basic logic, T_Bone. If you can't even sort out as simple issues as this, I really don't see the point in discussing anything with you any further.
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 197 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 06:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 195 (T_Bone):
BTW, does the word "synonym" mean anything to you? I wonder why it even exists if your reasoning would be true...
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 198 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 07:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 197 (samface):
> BTW, does the word "synonym" mean anything to you? I wonder why it even
> exists if your reasoning would be true...

None of those words are synonyms of "FUD", good try though! I promise we'll get to colors tomorrow! Then we'll work our way up to the big words! :D
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 199 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 07:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 198 (T_Bone):
I only used the word synonym for prooving that your reasoning is flawed, not as an argument that those words would be synonyms. Please try to restrain yourself from jumping into conclusions all the time.

Now, as for the definition of what is FUD:

Everything that causes or is based on Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt is FUD. The words I used was different examples of what might be FUD, not synonyms of FUD. See the difference?

Now step down from the lecturer's desk before the teacher comes back, you little hooligan!
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 200 of 248ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 07:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 196 (samface):
> Facts are not facts until they have been verified as facts.

Aww cute! he made a tounge twister :D

> You are using *hypothetical* facts,

No, I was using "Facts" and applied them to a "Situation" that was hypothetical. The bankruptcy laws are not hypothetical, they are facts in our real world.

> which per definition is not facts, it's called theories.

No, they were "facts" in a hypothetical situation. A theory would draw conclusions applicable to the real world, not the make believe world we were discussing hypothetically.

> Facts can not be uncertain or doubful in itself

That's not what FUD means, FUD is facts that *cause* fear, Uncertantity and doubt, like "vinyl is weaker than aluminum" or "Linux has fewer commercial desktop applications than Windows"

> because then it is NOT facts to begin with.

Sure they are, they have, however caused fear, uncertainty, or doubt.

> This is basic logic, T_Bone.

I know, and you'll get the hang of it eventually! :D

> If you can't even sort out as simple issues as
> this, I really don't see the point in discussing anything with you any
> further.

Is that a lie, like the last time, or simply FUD? Show me what you've learned! :D
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