| [News] Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 19-Jul-2003 11:30 GMT by SplitHAM (Edited on 2003-07-19 16:52:05 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä) | 248 comments
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Apparently Bill McEwen will not be showing at AmiWest, according to Amiga.com.
AmigaWest Update - July 19, 2003
Welcome to AmiWest 2003! This is another opportunity for the the Amiga community and the rest of the world to see AmigaOS 4.0 demonstrated for the first time. That is correct, Amiga Operating System Version 4.0, along with the AmigaOne hardware, is a giant step forward for Amiga users.
I look forward to hearing or reading your thoughts and opinions on these products. We are very pleased with the progress and believe that you will like the demonstration at AmiWest and further enjoy the AmigaOS 4 experience once the product is released.
Regrettably, my plans have changed and I will not be attending AmiWest this year. I have informed the organizers of AmiWest and they were very understanding. However, in my absence, Amiga will be well-represented at the event.
I hope that you all enjoy AmiWest. I will miss being there, as AmiWest holds a very special place in my heart in regard to my affiliation with Amiga and the community. I wish you all a very enjoyable time in Sacramento.
God Bless,
Bill McEwen
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 201 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 07:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 199 (samface):
> I only used the word synonym for prooving that your reasoning is flawed, not
> as an argument that those words would be synonyms. Please try to restrain
> yourself from jumping into conclusions all the time.
Ah, gotcha. You used a conclusionless expression to prove logic. I bet that Venn diagram looks funny :D
> Now, as for the definition of what is FUD:
> Everything that causes or is based on Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt is FUD.
Good! You see? My vinyl gutter story paid off!
> The words I used was different examples of what might be FUD, not synonyms
> of FUD. See the difference?
Like I just taught you, yes. You're using your words now. They are indeed different like I said. that's why they're not synonyms.
> Now step down from the lecturer's desk before the teacher comes back, you
> little hooligan!
Hooligan!? You've got me confused with a MOS user! |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 202 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 07:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 200 (T_Bone):
But for christ sake, what you are using as facts is not relevant until that hypothetical situation is a fact! Since the hypothetical situation is NOT a fact and because stating the hypothetical situation is causing Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, it is per definition FUD.
Let me give you an example:
Fact: My bike is a bike.
Statement: Riding a bike might hurt you if you fall.
Cause of Statement: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt about riding my bike.
Conclusion: The above *statement* is FUD, not a fact. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 203 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 07:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 202 (samface):
Let me give you an example:
> Fact: My bike is a bike.
ok....
> Statement: Riding a bike might hurt you if you fall.
ok.....
> Cause of Statement: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt about riding my bike.
sorry, in drawing my logic Venn diagram, there is no given for "intent" present in your equatrion, but lets let that slide for now.
> Conclusion: The above *statement* is FUD, not a fact.
Wrong, it's both.
Logic tells you that "Riding a bike might hurt you if you fall" is "True"
Your logic failed, sure it's FUD...
But your statement "is fud, not a fact" is false.
The statement "Riding a bike might hurt you if you fall" is True, and is a fact.
Keep working on those Venn diagrams, they will really help you with that logic! :D
Do they even teach Venn diagrams to youngsters these days? Or is that considered "old math" now? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 204 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 07:52 GMT | In reply to Comment 201 (T_Bone):
You've taught me NOTHING. Read my earlier posts again and tell me what I've said that would be contradicting what I'm saying now. I've been saying the same thing all along; that your hypothetical theory about Hyperions rights to the AmigaOS beeing in jeopardy if Amiga Inc. would end up in insolvency is FUD. You can repeat U.S. law as much as you want, you don't even know what the deal with Hyperion really is and neither are you a lawyer with in depth information about the legal proceedings of a bancrupcy. Accept your own limitations as a simple by stander, ok? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 205 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 08:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 203 (T_Bone):
Facts does not deal with likely scenarios, T_Bone. While it is *true* that you might fall when riding the bike, it is NOT a fact that you will. You see, that is what FUD is all about, scaring people with hypothetical situations that might become true.
Fact is something for certain and that has been proven to be true. While falling with the bike might be a *possible* scenario of events, it is not for certain, and therefore you cannot refer to falling with the bike as a factual scenario. You with me yet? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 206 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 08:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 204 (samface):
> You've taught me NOTHING.
OHHH! that hurt. After all that time and effort invested in you (sigh) oh well. Maybe you'll be good at something athletic, and we can leave logic to those who know what "Set Intersection" means in logic and who knows that "If you fall of a bike it might hurt" is a fact.
> Read my earlier posts again and tell me what I've said that would be
> contradicting what I'm saying now.
Contradicting? Let's wait untill you get something RIGHT to contradict the WRONG. Then we'll have contradiction. :D
> I've been saying the same thing all along;
With no improvement. (sniff) I guess I'm not a good "special needs" teacher :D
> that your hypothetical theory about Hyperions rights to the AmigaOS beeing
> in jeopardy if Amiga Inc. would end up in insolvency is FUD.
Nope, Fact. just like "you might get hurt if you fall of your bike" is Fact. Watch those Venn Set Intersections! they can be tricky! :D
> You can repeat U.S. law as much as you want, you don't even know what the
> deal with Hyperion really is
Doesn't matter. Set intersection again, your "trouble spot" :D Draw a circle around your Venn Diagram, that circle is US Bankruptcy law, it encompases everything in the set. What's in the set is irrelevant, as it's an enclosed set. As I hope you know, no variables within a closed set can leave the set encompassing it. Isn't Logic Fun?
> and neither are you a lawyer with in depth information about the legal
> proceedings of a bancrupcy.
Don't have to be. the federal governments bankruptcy laws are an all encompassing set. No set intersection can occur ouside an encompassing set. No lawyer can represent a set in a Venn Diagram that can leave the bounds of the Federal Law. No lawyer has that power.
Venn ->
Set
Encompasing set
Fact
set.
game.
score. T_Bone 1 Sameface 0
Do I need to draw you a Venn :D |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 207 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 08:26 GMT | In reply to Comment 205 (samface):
> Facts does not deal with likely scenarios, T_Bone.
Facts can be used anywhere. That's what Logic is all about Samface!
> While it is *true* that you might fall when riding the bike, it is NOT a
> fact that you will.
You know what a logic "statement" is?
You defined "If you ride a bike you might fall and get hurt"
YOU defined that as a "single statement" (hence your "Statement:")
You then "concluded" that it was FUD, but NOT fact (P^-q)
when I pointed out your logic error that SHOULD have been (P^q)
> You see, that is what FUD is all about, scaring people with hypothetical
> situations that might become true.
Your conclusion has already been mathematically proven false. use a Venn diagram, or use a binary tree or whatever logic math you kids use nowdays, the logics the same, your conclusion is wrong. (P^-q)=false, not true, as you erronously concluded.
> Fact is something for certain and that has been proven to be true. While
> falling with the bike might be a *possible* scenario of events, it is not
> for certain, and therefore you cannot refer to falling with the bike as a
> factual scenario. You with me yet?
That's irrelevant. You defined the set as "If you ride a bike and fall you might get hurt", that set is true. *regardless* of the p and q inside the set.
That statement is true IF you fall, and even if you DONT fall, the statement is still true.
That statement is true IF you get hurt and even if you DONT get hurt, the statement is still true.
The statement "If you ride a bike and fall you might get hurt" is always true. Always. no matter what.
The statement "If you go bankrupt your contracts might be void" is always true. Always. no matter what.
'Aint Logic grand? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 208 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 08:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 206 (T_Bone):
1. You told me that what I said is what you had taught me. Now you are saying that I have not changed and that your teachings has been in vain? How shall it be, oh almighty teacher of logics?
2. A possibility is not a fact no matter how you twist and turn it around.
3. You don't even know if the possibility is a possibility since you do not have a lawyer's degree nor have all the required knowledge and experience to interpret the law on your own. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 209 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 08:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 207 (T_Bone):
Stop talking about true and false, we're talking about facts. Facts is not based on theory or logic, it's based on real occurrences or something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed. While it might be true in theory that riding a bike might cause you to fall, the scenario is NOT a fact until it has actually occured. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 210 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 08:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 208 (samface):
> 1. You told me that what I said is what you had taught me. Now you are
> saying that I have not changed and that your teachings has been in vain? How
> shall it be,
:D Old Army mind trick, first I break you down, then I rebuild you into a real man! Sometimes it needs repeating :D
> oh almighty teacher of logics?
Well, damn. I had you all wrong, you're fun! :D
> 2. A possibility is not a fact no matter how you twist and turn it around.
A statement encompassing all possibilities is always True, no matter how you twist and turn it around.
> 3. You don't even know if the possibility is a possibility since you do not
> have a lawyer's degree nor have all the required knowledge and experience to
> interpret the law on your own.
But a tautology is always true. All contracts are subject to bankruptcy law. therefore anything represented as a set within federal law becomes a tautology.
As long as Amiga is a corporation in the United States, they are subject to Federal Law. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 211 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by T_Bone on 21-Jul-2003 08:56 GMT | In reply to Comment 209 (samface):
> Stop talking about true and false, we're talking about facts.
facts are true, you made a "statement" of fact, and called it false.
how can we talk about "facts" if you think true/false is irrelevant?
> Facts is not based on theory or logic,
Correct. "Statements" are based on logic. Facts are simply the truth/true variables we use to conclude the statements true/false status.
> it's based on real occurrences or something demonstrated to exist or known
> to have existed.
A given. or a Fact.
> While it might be true in theory that riding a bike might cause you to fall,
> the scenario is NOT a fact until it has actually occured.
Your statement "If you ride a bike, you might fall and get hurt" is always true. Always. no matter what happens.
it's a fact jack :D |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 212 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 09:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 211 (T_Bone):
But then, as you concluded yourself:
"A statement encompassing all possibilities is always True"
The statement "If you ride a bike, you might fall and get hurt" does NOT encompass all possibilities. On the contrary, it is even more likely that you will not fall if you do have the basic skills for bicycling. So, by your own words, the statement is incomplete and therefore not neccessarily true, neither a fact.
Face it, your statement is only by your unprofessional interpretation of the U.S. law a possibility rather than a fact. That is FUD, end of story. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 213 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by nasu on 21-Jul-2003 10:04 GMT | | My 86-year old neightbour asked me yesterday "Did spamface previously work as the Iraqi information minister?" |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 214 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 10:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 213 (nasu):
LOL! For some reason, I doubt that your 86-year old neighbour reads ANN.lu. But then, that is just speculation on my behalf. :-P |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 215 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Phill on 21-Jul-2003 11:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 50 (samface):
> My Winblows machine crashed tonight
Your spelling is terrible, I guess you meant Windows. If you are having trouble, maybe you should copy the name down in crayon then next time you boot the machine up.
Who really cares whether Bill turns up or not? People that are anti-Amiga will use it as an excuse to vent their stupid arguments, others will defend him. The Amiga died as a mainstream platform ten years ago, maybe it will be back or maybe not. Until then I'm sticking to Windows XP for mainstream use, it's the best microsoft have managed to put out so far. It suffers from buggy applications, but then so does AmigaOS.
Phill |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 216 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 21-Jul-2003 11:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 215 (Phill):
My PC with "Windows 2000 Professional(TM)" crashed, the earlier pun was intended (please consider the state of my mood at the time of the crash). It booted but displayed a blue screen of death right after the desktop came up for about a half of a second and then made a hardware reset just to repeat the same process again. Furthermore, it completely failed to boot in failsafe mode. I tried doing a repair using the Windows 2000 install CD but without any result. After several ours of trying to find a solution, I was finally forced to reinstall the entire OS from scratch. At times like this, I wish I could've simply removed everything in startup-sequence and then put each command line back again seperately in order to find what was causing the failure. :-/
Anyway, I agree that this entire issue about Bill McEwans attendance at AmiWest is trivial. Attaching such great importance to it is simply not very rational. That was actually my point to begin with. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 217 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 21-Jul-2003 14:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 209 (samface):
Here we can see that Samface is living in a world where laws are theories and
not factual existing orders/rules. :-) |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 218 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jul-2003 15:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 217 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
If you didnt get what he was saying then youre the idiot here. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 219 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dammy on 21-Jul-2003 15:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 216 (samface):
> Anyway, I agree that this entire issue about Bill McEwans attendance at AmiWest > is trivial. Attaching such great importance to it is simply not very rational. > That was actually my point to begin with.
True, but perhaps the real Amiga Inc CEO will show up instead. :)
Dammy |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 220 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by In_the_know on 21-Jul-2003 17:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 167 (T_Bone):
"If Amiga goes bankrupt, there's a chance the bankruptcy court could stop OS4 from being released as an AmigaOS. Hyperion says their deal is Bankruptcy-proof, but there's no such beast. All deals and contracts become null and void upon bankruptcy."
Nope! There are two different types of Bankruptcy chapter 11 or 7. In 11 the bills can become cleaned off while the firm reforms (still in business). The contracts stay in force unless the firm wants (key word) WANTS, to kill the contract. It then goes before the judge for the ok. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 221 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 21-Jul-2003 19:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 218 (Anonymous):
How many times did he call any law speech fud or theories? :-) |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 222 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by hammer on 21-Jul-2003 22:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 192 (T_Bone):
Does anyone know "AMIGA Development LLC"... I’m guessing 'Amiga Development LLC' is separate entity from the 'Amiga Inc'. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 223 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by 3seas on 21-Jul-2003 23:38 GMT | In reply to Comment 162 (samface):
samface said: "I'm trying to fight rumours and FUD rather than defending someone. Again, this is just like the reasoning that not loving someone would be the same thing as hating him. It's not."
How long will you pursue this until you realize the reason why you are having no success?
Is there something about the word "experience" and it's meaning that you do not understand? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 224 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by 3seas on 21-Jul-2003 23:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 222 (hammer):
That's Gateway and you are probably looking at somewhat recent patents. Am I right? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 225 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Rich Woods on 22-Jul-2003 01:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 174 (samface):
Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 174 of 224
Posted by samface (131.116.254.197) on 21-Jul-2003 06:54:14
In Reply to Comment 173:
I can't believe the ignorance of some people. Now what in Gods name do you know about the contract between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion? And exactly where is your law degree? You know NOTHING, yet you claim to know. This is so stupid.
Then why do you have such a problem gettting the court docs which you seek? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 226 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Rich Woods on 22-Jul-2003 01:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 179 (Tigger):
Posted by Tigger (68.62.180.102) on 21-Jul-2003 07:21:53
Any and all contracts with a company which declares bankruptcy can become Null & Void. You cant write a bankruptcy proof contract, the laws are in place to stop you from doing that, that US Bankruptcy law 101. Sorry but if Amiga Inc
Read about US bankruptcy laws before responding with comments that sound like you are 1 year old who likes chocolate.
-Tig
----------------
Ah a breath of fresh air.
One reason to be ULTRA cautious in today's economy is the BK 101 laws of what you speak.
One company did $112,000 worth of business with another company selling computers. The company made $12,000 on the $112,000 sale.
4 months later they get a letter from a lawyer stating they have to refund the entire amount of $112,000 - reason the company is going into BK. The lawyer DID offer to settle for 1/2 the amount within 30 days.
Reason for this - to prevent "preferential" companies getting paid off before a company goes under.
Tig - probably can explain in better and further detail. One reason why any company dealing with amiga and aware of their financial situation they would tend to be EXTREMELY cautious.
Why make $12K on a deal and have to refund 9x that amount on a shaky company who goes the BK way?
Fact of life - BK law - |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 227 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Rich Woods on 22-Jul-2003 01:56 GMT | In reply to Comment 188 (T_Bone):
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 21-Jul-2003 08:24:28
WHEW! I knew you'd catch on eventually! A gold star for samface! Keep up the good work!
Add a silver star too! He be learning his lesons!
It's usefull to you! Look at all you've learned today!
1) "LOL" means "laugh out loud"
2) Hypothetical
3) Contracts cannot be written to circumvent a bankruptcy
4) Colors
Whoops! We didn't get to the colors yet, We'll do that tomorrow, you've had a busy day today!
> Am I getting through to you yet?
You see? learning is Fun!
You Be Bad! |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 228 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 22-Jul-2003 03:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 221 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Not once. Only T_Bones own amateure interpretations of the law is theories at best but most definitly FUD. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 229 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 22-Jul-2003 03:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 223 (3seas):
You're right, some people will never understand... Touché! :-P |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 230 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 22-Jul-2003 03:17 GMT | In reply to Comment 225 (Rich Woods):
Because you refuse me access to them? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 231 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 22-Jul-2003 03:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 220 (In_the_know):
You see this, T_Bone and Alkis? I don't know if this person is correct or not, my point is only that there will always be different ways of interpreting the law, which is the reason why we have such a thing as law schools and degrees. So, unless you do have a law degree, please stop stating your own interpretations of the law as facts. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 232 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 22-Jul-2003 04:05 GMT | In reply to Comment 231 (samface):
There's an interpretation that for Hyperion to retain the OS4 rights,
they have to release the product before any bankruptcy occurs. Maybe
Ben could clarify on that, but it's very probable and it could be a
reason for not declaring bankruptcy YET. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 233 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 22-Jul-2003 04:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 232 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Yet another conspiracy theory(TM).
You know, wouldn't such theory mean that Amiga Inc. actually does care for the community? I mean, why would they else bother with who gets their hands on the rights for the OS? Isn't this in direct opposition to what you have said about Amiga Inc.'s intentions lately?
But then, when did any of your theories ever make sense... |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 234 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Tigger on 22-Jul-2003 06:12 GMT | In reply to Comment 233 (samface):
Samface,
Apparently you are too lazy to do any time of searching on the net so you could learn about US bankruptcy. T-Bone has shown you the rudiments of logic are beyond you (which is really scary given your goal of writing a new OS) and you still dont understand that Hyperion has no say on what happens to contracts between it and Amiga Inc if Bankruptcy occurs.
My company has dealt with the Commodore Bankruptcy, the Packard Bell Bankruptcy among others, despite huge legal staffs (easily more then the combined total staff of the Amiga Inc, Eyetech and Hyperion combined, its usually decided that its in the best interests of all the creditors for contracts to be nullified.
As someone pointed out earlier there are two forms of Bankruptcy for a company:
Chapter 7: Liquidation
Chapter 11: Reorganization
Now we've talked alot about liquidation, and frankly with Amiga Inc having never shown a profit, not having any tangible assets, etc, its not very likely that they would be allowed to file for reorganization instead of liquidation, but just for fun lets say they do. The court would appoint a group of Trustees composed of the largest debtors or their representatives. At this point, that means Bolten "Ray called me a bike mechanic" Peck would be a trustee for the reorganization of Amiga Inc. Bolten if that happens, let me know and I'll tell you all the fun stuff you can do as a trustee for a Chapter 11 Reorganization. A representative for the Leasing Agent, Matt Fontenot, and then a representative for the sCAM people and the Pack people is a likely configuration of the trustees. Amiga Inc would have 120 days to present a reorganization plan which has to be approved by 1/2 the debt, Bolten, Matt (after his win on Friday) and any other ex-employees who win similar suits probably become the power in this case as they probably have close to if not 1/2 the owed debt once they all file. I really think Ray probably should have been nicer to Bolten given this best case scenario without a White Knight buyout.
Also Samface, since you are quite possibly the laziest person on any of the Amiga sites, I have a URL for you to learn all about Bankruptcy in the US:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/11/index.html
-Tig |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 235 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Tigger on 22-Jul-2003 06:17 GMT | In reply to Comment 220 (In_the_know):
>>>>
Nope! There are two different types of Bankruptcy chapter 11 or 7. In 11 the bills can become cleaned off while the firm reforms (still in business). The
contracts stay in force unless the firm wants (key word) WANTS, to kill the contract. It then goes before the judge for the ok.
>>>>
I'm sorry, please check out the site I posted above, you are misinformed to say the least. Its extremely unlikely that a Reorganization (Chapter 11) would be allowed, but if it was, it would be fun to see Bolten, Matt and other unpayed employees to decide the fate of Amiga Inc.
-Tig
PS Ray how would you like to work for Bolten?? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 236 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 22-Jul-2003 06:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 234 (Tigger):
Dear mr amateure lawyer, may I ask what law shool you went to? There is of course nothing wrong with studying and quoting the law, but trying to make your own interpretations out of it is not something I would recommend if you don't have a degree. Otherwise we wouldn't have the need for lawyers, now would we?
Does this logic make any sense to you? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 237 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 22-Jul-2003 08:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 234 (Tigger):
Furthermore, I find your judgement about me as lazy rather unfounded. The fact that I restrain myself from jumping into conclusions while reading about law related issues has *nothing* to do with beeing lazy. Care to elaborate on what you meant by this? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 238 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 22-Jul-2003 09:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 234 (Tigger):
Regarding T_Bone's teachings about logic, all he ever talked about was the mathematical definition of logic which he inaccurately tried to apply to the debate as some kind of absolute truth. This is simply not true. Especially not if you look up the word "logic" in the dictionary:
log·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ljk)
n.
1. The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.
2.
a. A system of reasoning: Aristotle's logic.
b. A mode of reasoning: By that logic, we should sell the company tomorrow.
c. The formal, guiding principles of a discipline, school, or science.
3. Valid reasoning: Your paper lacks the logic to prove your thesis.
4. The relationship between elements and between an element and the whole in a set of objects, individuals, principles, or events: There's a certain logic to the motion of rush-hour traffic.
5. Computer Science.
a. The nonarithmetic operations performed by a computer, such as sorting, comparing, and matching, that involve yes-no decisions.
b. Computer circuitry.
c. Graphic representation of computer circuitry.
When discussing any particular issue, this is what I mean when I talk about logical reasoning. The Venn diagram is not even a part of the definition and neither did I study mathematical logic, where's the logic to constantly refer to it to begin with? I don't know what a Venn diagram is, but I do know this:
Making a conclusion based on incomplete information about the given situation (ie Hyperions's contract and an amatuer interpretation of the U.S. bankruptcy law) is not logical. Furthermore, stating that a person that has been a part of starting a project for writing a completely new OS from scratch is lazy isn't very logical either. I even started to learn programming C/C++ for this as the sole purpose, which since then has expanded into learning PHP & MySQL. You can find the results of my latest newly acquired skill here:
http://www.mindrelease.net
This site was solely programmed and designed by me with more functionality to be implemented soon. Anyway, about a year ago I knew just about nothing about PHP nor MySQL. I bought a great book, studied it, and then started to work on the site right away. I learned this completely on my own and refused to listen to the book's recommendations about not trying to do a complete community site like that on my own. I've never used anything but my own spare time for any of this. Still think that I'm lazy? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 239 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Janne Sirén on 22-Jul-2003 10:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 238 (samface):
I do have to agree with Samface here. The whole discussion of logic within this context is suspect. Clearly one of the first things one is taught of classic logic, is that it is overly simplistic for all real-world applications.
While it is correct to state that logically "if you ride a bike you may fall and hurt yourself" is always true (hence a tautology), that has very little to do with how accurate a warning that might be in a given real-life circumstance. The logical statement itself does not take into account the riders abilities, possible disabilities, weather, traffic, the condition of the bike, etc. - all the factors that contribute to probabilities and thus relevance. Life ain't black and white, and neither is the application of law.
More so, I have to agree with Samface that it is speculation to discuss the outcome of the hypothetical situation where Amiga Inc. would face bankrupcy and Hyperion's OS4 contract would be put to test. These are complex issues and a black and white interpretation of bankrupcy law, without access to information on the actual OS4 ownership and the contracts governing it, will result in speculation, even if possibly educated speculation. We simply do not know for sure what would happen, because there are so many factors that would contribute to any potential outcome.
It may very well be, that if Amiga Inc. faces bankrupcy, the contract governing OS4 would become null and void. I don't know, and I am willing to stipulate, for the sake of argument, that it is so. But even then we don't know to what extent ownership has been transferred prior to that, would any court find that to be in violation of bankrupcy laws, etc. Or even what the end-result might be from the contract being nullified - perhaps Hyperion might negotiate a new one with the trustee. We can go down this road and even have a meaningful discussion, but in the end, we are still just speculating.
And for once, I agree with Samface's use of the word FUD. It is exactly this kind of innuendo that the acronym is in my experience most often associated to, especially if we can attach motive to it. Nevertheless, it may be a meaningful discussion and I leave it up to those participating in to consider whether anything constructive can come out of it. In any case, it would surely be interesting to hear what Ben Hermans has to say of all this. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 240 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 22-Jul-2003 10:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 239 (Janne Sirén):
Thank you, Janne. Very well put. =) |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 241 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 22-Jul-2003 10:53 GMT | In reply to Comment 239 (Janne Sirén):
But then, if I would be picky I could point out that FUD isn't a word, it's an acronym. However, I'm not that picky, so I won't. :-P |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 242 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 22-Jul-2003 10:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 241 (samface):
DOH! Just noticed that you indeed refered to it as an acronym in the next sentence. So, if I was picky, I would have to correct myself now. Thank goodness that I'm not picky. ;-) |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 243 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Janne on 22-Jul-2003 11:05 GMT | In reply to Comment 242 (samface):
:-) |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 244 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by acg on 22-Jul-2003 14:07 GMT | | Alert...alert....thread out of control....what started out as comments as to theannouncement that Mr. McEwen would not attend the Amiwest show(an amazing thing in itself, in that it may be a statement whichactually is fulfilled)...now has changed into a discussion aboutlogic/bankrupty.....personal inuendoes aside...how about killing this thread??? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 245 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Rich Woods on 22-Jul-2003 22:18 GMT | In reply to Comment 235 (Tigger):
Posted by Tigger (68.62.180.102) on 22-Jul-2003 08:17:42
-Tig
PS Ray how would you like to work for Bolten??
A question for Ray is how wold he like to work for Amiga, Inc? Seems there is a lot of ambiguity whether he works, had worked, or volunterred or contracted for them. |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 246 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 23-Jul-2003 06:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 245 (Rich Woods):
Well, atleast you could tell us YOUR agenda before questioning others, don't you agree? |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 247 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Rich Woods on 23-Jul-2003 22:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 246 (samface):
Posted by samface (131.116.254.200) on 23-Jul-2003 08:22:18
In Reply to Comment 245:
Well, atleast you could tell us YOUR agenda before questioning others, don't you agree?
----------------
3 armies from Kamchatka to attack Greenland..... |
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| Bill McEwens plans have changed, not attending AmiWest : Comment 248 of 248 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 24-Jul-2003 12:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 247 (Rich Woods):
???
Syntax error... |
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