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[News] Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03ANN.lu
Posted on 21-Jul-2003 08:21 GMT by Chris Hodges94 comments
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Due to reasons I will not explain here further (ask me in private), Poseidon keyfiles cannot be bought after 01-Aug-03. People having just bought an USB card, that does not come with an OEM Licence, have the chance to register Poseidon until the end of this month. Support for existing users is NOT affected and will continue as usually.

It is recommended that dealers stop selling USB cards without licence to avoid angry customers buying an useless piece of hardware, until the vendor delivers his own software solution or the situation is solved somehow.

Chris Hodges
Author of Poseidon

Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 51 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 22-Jul-2003 08:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (DaveP):
I personally couldn't care less about it and I never did... I don't
have any firewire devices.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 52 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Jul-2003 08:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Oh well in that case it obviously doesn't matter then...

/ian/
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 53 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 22-Jul-2003 09:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Rat):
Hi all.

R> Elbox is the only company offering USB 2.0 hardware for Amiga. Elbox supports not only Amiga, but also Amithlon.

Elbox supports Elbox, at least regarding USB. There are many PCI USB 2.0 solutions widely available, but they won't work in Elbox PCI busboard. So you buy a PCI busboard in order to have more choices, but you can't choose because Elbox policy.

Hey, nothing wrong about this, if you like it you buy it, if no, you don't, but it's at least, not very 'user friendly', IMHO...

Regarding your keyfiles, I remember this:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/680

AFAIK, nobody can force a software publisher to deliver free updates, unless it is written in the license agreement. If so, you could make a complaint to the corresponding authorities. But if it is not stated, there isn't even an obligation to refund you the money: you got what you paid for...

Saluditos,

Ferrán.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 54 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 22-Jul-2003 17:23 GMT
Hi Chris!
what will happen with the OpenPCI drivers for generic NEC USB PCI cards?
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 55 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Phill on 22-Jul-2003 17:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Stefan):
>Let me correct you, Mr Idiot. There is no way today to sell a device >compliant with the USB 1.1 spec. It is not supported any longer. If you sell >an USB device, you _have_ to make it 2.0 compliant.

Well, the only reason why you don't see much stating usb 1.1 anymore is the standard group officially said that anything that only supported usb 1.1 should be renamed to usb 2.0 compliant. Apparently it stops confusion as people would think they couldn't use a 2.0 device on their 1.1 motherboard. However it's just marketing.

All usb devices are usb 2.0 compliant, even the usb 1.1 ones that came out years ago. In the same way as your old 20mb drive from 1990 is probably ATA133 compliant.

Some companies are still being nice and only quoting usb 1.1 if they were designed with old chips that came out before usb 2.0.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 56 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 22-Jul-2003 20:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (DaveP):
Cute, but he could always run Linux (which supports Firewire) in the meantime, couldn't he? ;)

..anyway, as usual way off topic just because someone felt the urge to make snide remarks for the fun of it...


- CISC
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 57 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 23-Jul-2003 05:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Rat):
> > Can any Spider users say what site this "unofficical URL" points to?
>
> The URL mentioned SpiderCD is Chris Hodges' homepage: www.platon42.de

How come you know that, as you don't have a Spider 2, but just a Spider 1
and bought it before November 2002? Or maybe because you live next door to Elbox?
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 58 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 23-Jul-2003 05:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Crumb // AAT):
About the OpenPCI driver, please ask Titan (Benjamin Vernoux) about it. I didn't have time to do a driver for OpenPCI yet.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 59 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 23-Jul-2003 06:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
No, snide remarks because he was so bloody rude actually :)
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 60 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 23-Jul-2003 10:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
> We all know what Elbox did and why Chris has a rather big
> issue with them, and I think I can safely say that most of
> us empathise with him

Who is 'us', you are writing about?

I personally simpathise with Elbox. I have many products from them and I can say that they produce excellent hardware, they have fantastic support and relationships with customers.

> As for the refund, I do remember that Chris offered you a refund publically,

If you remember this discussion so well, you sure remember that I rejected this proposal. There is no such law in civilised countries that the seller takes away the product which you bought with him. It is the client who decides about an optional refunding of money, not the seller. And Chris Hodges is the seller here.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 61 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 23-Jul-2003 10:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Rat):
> First of all : Jacek commented on comment 37 and not 27

Yes, you are right. Thanks for correction.

> I was waiting for 4 months to get a new one... under guarantee of course...

My experience tells me that they react to all support issues very fast. Maybe you were using services of another dealer, who was not so fast.

Did you send this item to them directly?

>I can add that just 6 months after having bought he mroocheck, the interface died....

So you must have a guarantee for it.

> Elbox so announced support for Yamaha 744 sound cards... I so bought a board,
> but support never comes...

Where did you see such an announcement?

The very first announcement about Mediator PCI 1200 mentioned Elbox plan to offer PCI add-on cards bundled with drivers--this is the only place they mentioned Yamaha 744-based cards I saw.
The complete announcement by Elbox about it is here: http://www.elbox.com/news_00_06_08.html

> On the other hand I'm a good friend of Open PCI coder Titan, and I
> know what is his relationship with Elbox... very bad for a coder who
> can help them having more customers...as elbox make him retire code to
> support mediator in latest openPCI version...

AFAIK Titan is very tiny in driver development. Elbox already have all the drivers announced by Titan.

> I just remember elbox employees : we're a hardware company not a
> software company... spider, shark, soundblaster, realtek NIC, voodoo3,
> oh, they didn't built cards... only drivers....

What is your problem in this case?
They produce many good hardware items, see http://www.elbox.com/products.html

> Concerning the email, i'm helping genesi, yes, but that doesn't mean
> I'm an employee...

I have not written that you are their employee.

> So that's why I feel angry against Hellbox...

So you think this is satisfactory reason to congratulate a person who wants to let down Mediator users?
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 62 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 23-Jul-2003 10:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Stefan):
>Let me correct you, Mr Idiot.

Very nice to hear you introducing yourself in the very first sentence :->

> There is no way today to sell a device compliant
> with the USB 1.1 spec. It is not supported any longer. If you sell an USB
> device, you _have_ to make it 2.0 compliant. And when you do, you may choose
> too make it a low speed, high speed, normal speed or any combination of them.
> Don't go into details where you have no clue!

Man, Algor produced by Michael Boehmer is not an USB _device_ but an USB _host controller_. Can you see the difference?

How an USB _host controller_ may be compliant with the High-Speed USB 2.0 _specification_ and at the same time cannot provide support for High-Speed mode?

I wrote about it here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/667
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/743
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 63 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 23-Jul-2003 10:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Felix Schwarz):
@Felix Schwarz,

> I find it interesting that you did not answer a single of my questions (reality hurts it seems).

Yet another lie of yours.
You have got all the answers in comment no. 41.

> Nothing more to say about you, enough time wasted, case closed. Period.

You are discrediting yourself with such comments.
Did you take lessons in manners with your buddy Chris?
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 64 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 23-Jul-2003 10:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Ferry):
> Regarding your keyfiles, I remember this:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/680

You should remember my post, as well, here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/730
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 65 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 23-Jul-2003 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Chris Hodges):
Chris,

You are again confirming your psychic problems.

You know very well that the address, which Elbox places on the SpiderCDs is the
address of your website.

You have personally participated in this talk in comp.sys.amiga.hardware, to which Doobrey referred in comment no. 11.

I looked in the comp.sys.amiga.hardware archivies to see how this talk continued.

Here is the continuation of the post quoted in comment no. 11:

'> > I have
> > two poseidonmain archives on disk - one from the unofficial URL that
> > was given in the Spider readme, one from IOSpirit.
>
> Pardon me? What unofficial URL?

On the disk containing the spider drivers was a readme that adviced on
downloading the poseidon archive from
http://www.platon42.de/files/usb. This is the archive I installed
first before downloading and installing Poseidon from IOSpirit. This
earlier Poseidon archive would appear to be some kind of demo version.'


Chris, www.platon42.de is your own website.

Have you forgoten the address of your website?
Boy, wake up.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 66 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 23-Jul-2003 12:06 GMT
<yawn>
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 67 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 23-Jul-2003 15:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Rat):
Of course I remember it:

"I have not discredited either your friend or his products.
When someone points out errors in publicly available documentation,
you cannot see it as discrediting."

You did not pointed there was an error, you stated in capital letters it was FALSE information. There's a slight difference between 'error' and 'false': the second one indicates they wanted to cheat intentionally the customers.

IMHO, it would have been easier to ask in a more friendly way "Hey, you, can you please confirm this information?" or "It would be better to state this or that in a clearer way, to avoid confusions", but you chose to accuse them and to confront them directly. Well, that's what you have got... :¬/

Saluditos,

Ferrán.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 68 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 23-Jul-2003 16:58 GMT
Can I assume from this thread that the real news is that in future you can only use Chris' USB stack on hardware that he approves of? Also, if you oppose his views on any subject or criticize his friends in a public forum he reserves the right to cancel your keyfile and refuse you any updates to his software?

Isn't this the same stack that's going to be used by OS4? If so, what happens if OS4 is released for the Shark/Shark+?

Am I missing something here?
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 69 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 23-Jul-2003 17:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Darrin):
Well, when you start attacks against an author, discredit him on every chance,
call him with several nice "names" and stuff like that, isn't normal?
There's no clause in the EULA that states that you buy every update. By cancelling
his key and propose a refund he actually lets him use what he bought,
the current (at the time he paid) version of Poseidon.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 70 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Felix Schwarz on 23-Jul-2003 17:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Rat):
Rat,

I didn't see your comment 41. I only read comment 42. Thanks for pointing this out. Regarding you accusing me of lying (I would be CAREFUL with making such statements btw):

My sentence (notice "if I remember correctly", i.e. I don't take this as a fact):

"The fact, that your keyfile is no longer valid goes hand in hand with the fact that you - if I remember correctly - have received a refund."

Your response:

"This is a lie. I have NEVER got any refund."

Put this into context with:

" > Why do you keep making incomplete cites

You are wrong. I posted the parts of the texts answering the asked questions. Links are given to complete texts for references. Why are you suggesting that I have done something wrong? What is your intention?"

Yawn. 'nough time wasted. Enjoy talking to yourself, making wild accusations and waiting for a sense in it until the end of your life. Have fun :)

Best regards,

Felix Schwarz
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 71 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 23-Jul-2003 17:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Darrin):
> Can I assume from this thread that the real news is that in future you can only use Chris' USB stack on hardware that he approves of?

No. This has never been stated anywhere. Don't read out more than there there has been written. But I'm going to change the licence conditions a little bit to avoid abuse again.

> Also, if you oppose his views on any subject or criticize his friends in a public forum he reserves the right to cancel your keyfile and refuse you any updates to his software?

No. I didn't do this because somebody had different views or criticized my friends. What "Rat" did was clearly beyond that. He insulted me and my friends over and over again (and still does, just read a few comments above), tried to bash Michael's and MY products (as the E3B software drivers were all written by me, this does affect me aswell) by stating wrong information on purpose or based on assumptions. It is one thing trying to promote products in a fair manner or bashing other products for malvolent reason, especially if the information stated is clearly wrong or misinterpreted.

Giving out updates for free is my, and only my decision, and it is also my right to exclude a certain friendly polish user from this free updates. He got what he had paid for. Everything that goes beyond that, is simply done on a term of bilateral support.

> Isn't this the same stack that's going to be used by OS4?

No.

> If so, what happens if OS4 is released for the Shark/Shark+?

IMHO chances are those for a snowball in hell that these vapor products will ever see the light of day.

> Am I missing something here?

Obviously.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 72 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 23-Jul-2003 17:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Chris Hodges):
Thanks for the reply Chris, that answers my questions. There's obviously a lot going on behind the curtains here which you don't want to see turned into a public slanging match. Good attitude - I wish others would do the same.

I do hope that something is sorted out soon between you and Elbox soon for the sake of existing Mediator users.

Regards
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 73 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Felix Schwarz on 23-Jul-2003 17:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Rat):
Rat,

> You are again confirming your psychic problems.

Lol, I wonder who in the world would spend so much time bashing honourable members of the AMIGA and MorphOS developer community over 20 EUR (for which he actually received what he had ordered. And as said before multiple times in this mostly useless thread, upgrades don't have to be free by law nor anything else.).

Ah, yeah, this might answer many if not all of your remaining questions:

http://w0rli.home.att.net/youare.swf

Lol, enough laughing for today ;)

Best regards,

Felix Schwarz

P.S.: Before again loosing yourself in wild accusations and conspiracy theories, if you should not have noticed, the link is intended to be funny, make you smile, no offence or insult meant, etc :) As said before, have fun and maybe even in a constructive way in the future 8)
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 74 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Felix Schwarz on 23-Jul-2003 17:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Felix Schwarz):
P.P.S.: Last post. Definately :)
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 75 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 23-Jul-2003 18:39 GMT
RDB trashing code. End of subject FOREVER!!!
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 76 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 23-Jul-2003 19:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Rat):
If you had read the previous Elbox threads here on ANN instead of being busy bashing everyone, you would have noticed...

Producing good hardware (and they didn't even do that in the case of the Spider) does not necessarily equal good support and relationship with customers, and the recent driver "feature" scandal and the whole debacle between them and Chris aren't the only incidents in Elbox's history.

And again about the refund, since you rejected it (which is your perogative), you obviously saw it too, though your rather crass outbursts about you getting a refund (which wasn't even stated as a fact, the person simply meant to recall you got one, which was logical since you were offered one) being a lie were in such a manner that it would appear that you never received such an offer .. either way, Chris never took away your right to use Poseidon, he simply took away your right to free upgrades which he is fully entitled to do, so please stop your drivel about Chris doing anything illegal...


- CISC
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 77 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 23-Jul-2003 23:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Ferry):
> You did not pointed there was an error, you stated in capital letters it was
> FALSE information. There's a slight difference between 'error' and 'false':
> the second one indicates they wanted to cheat intentionally the customers.

This 'error' persists in the Algor web page (http://e3b.de/usb/main_algor_e.html). It still reads that 'Algor is compliant with USB 2.0 specification'. The same is written in the product description with the distributor (probably copied from the E3B site).

When you buy this product, its User Manual reads something else.
Now 'Algor is compiliant with USB 2.0 devices' (http://www.e3b.de/usb/soft/al_manual.pdf).

So is it an 'error' only or what you called 'intentional customers cheat?'
It looks like the 'Algor is compliant with USB 2.0 specification' phrase is placed deliberately to suggest that it is a USB 2.0 standard controller.

English is not my native language. When I wrote 'false' I thought about 'wrong' or 'inncorrect', but it seems that accidentally I hit the target.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 78 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 23-Jul-2003 23:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Felix Schwarz):
> I didn't see your comment 41. I only read comment 42.

Please, when you want to offend me next time with sentences like:

'I find it interesting that you did not answer a single of my questions (reality hurts it seems). Nothing more to say about you, enough time wasted, case closed. Period.'

be honest enough to read what I am writing you.

> Regarding you accusing me of lying (I would be CAREFUL with making such statements btw):
> My sentence (notice "if I remember correctly", i.e. I don't take this as a fact):
> "The fact, that your keyfile is no longer valid goes hand in hand with the fact that
> you - if I remember correctly - have received a refund."

Your text, even with this addition of 'if I remember correctly,' was just a suggestion to discredit my statement.

If you are not aware of facts, do not speak against people.

You can write bullshit _about yourself_ and add 'if I remember correctly.'

However, if you think you can spin false tales unpunished _about others_ and add 'if I remember correctly,' you are wrong.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 79 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 23-Jul-2003 23:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Chris Hodges):
@Chris Hodges

> What "Rat" did was clearly beyond that. He insulted me and my friends

Show me the wrong things (according to you) written against you before the date when you switched off my keys.

Prove your words, give links.

As all our talks were only in public (ANN, amiga.org and Highway ML), you do not have problems in proving your words... if it were true...

But you can’t do it, as you are not speaking truth. If anybody insulted anyone, it was you insulting me.

I can give exact links to prove that you offended me.

> over and over again (and still does, just read a few comments above),
> tried to bash Michael's and MY products (as the E3B software drivers
> were all written by me, this does affect me aswell) by stating wrong
> information on purpose or based on assumptions.

What wrong did I state in my post? Quote and give links.

We will see if you can prove that whatever I wrote was not true.

> Giving out updates for free is my, and only my decision, and
> it is also my right to exclude a certain friendly polish user
> from this free updates.

As I just wrote you in the Highway ML:

You have no idea about law that is binding you as a seller.

You have no right to discriminate me due to my views, opinions, nationality or colour.

Even if you have written in your licence that you are not obliged to make bugfixes, if you are making such bugfixes in public, you must not ban access to them to selected clients according to your whims.

What you are doing is discrimination, which is illegal in the European law.

Can't you see you live in EU, and not in a dictatorship place?
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 80 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 24-Jul-2003 01:31 GMT
I am not surprised that Chris is discontinuing licencing judging by a lot of the posts on here. He provides some excellent software that brings some modern hardware to the amiga, and all people do is rip him off and moan about how he handles his work.

Every time I read a thread like this, it discourages me from ever wanting to develop anything for the Amiga community again.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 81 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Cleanup Troop on 24-Jul-2003 05:49 GMT
Haha! Funny Rat. Thanks for the daily laughts. How about renaming to "Funny Bunny"? Bwahaha!

Funny Bunny. Funny Bunny. Funny Bunny. Hehe, now, Mr. "I have to hide behind that funky nickname", go, eat shit or something (yeah, rats do .. you are one ;). Anyway, please make sure you get lost and never pester any of us again with your sad existance. Thanks.

Lol, funny bunny!

~ Da Cleanup Troop!
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 82 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Troll alert on 24-Jul-2003 05:53 GMT
@ MODERATORS:

Could you please clean up? I think there is nothing in this thread that needs to waste dreamhost disk space. It's just another annoying Rat self-production-I-need-to-bash-everybody thread and annoying for everybody who can read.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 83 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 24-Jul-2003 06:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Rat):
Hi all.

"English is not my native language. When I wrote 'false' I thought about 'wrong' or 'inncorrect', but it seems that accidentally I hit the target."

Hit the target? What target? Insulting someone? Well, you hitted THAT target. English is neither my native language, that's why I choose my words very carefully, checking them twice if necessary. If there has been a confusion due to a mistaken use of the language from you, it's UP TO YOU to apologise first, and then ask for clarifications or corrections on the USB 2.0 subject, but I have not seen a single apology from you...

As for

"It still reads that 'Algor is compliant with USB 2.0 specification'"

I understand that it accepts devices marked to be "USB 2.0 compliant", since it's clearly stated that there isn't NO HIGHSPEED MODE. You chose to understand it in a different way, well, just different points of view.

By the way, AFAIK there is no single USB card in classic Amiga capable, at the moment, of accomplishing fully the USB 2.0 specification regarding speed, due to bottlenecks in the main hardware. My only doubt is the GRex... Even the Spider. It will only work at full speed when a G3/G4 Shark is installed in a PCI connector and fully replaces (nearly) the classic motherboard, and there will be direct transfer between PCIs. When it transfers data to current motherboard, it has to slow down speed to match those bottlenecks. From

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/143

"The Mediator does not use any DMA mechanism for transferring data from main
memory to the PCI board (and vice versa). DMA transfers are only possible
/between/ PCI cards. This is the reason, why you need a graphics card in
order to use the Mediator properly: One MB is reserved for buffering the
transfers between main memory and PCI cards.

The only buffering mechanism (and advantage) therefore is, that the CPU can
transfer data from this buffer, while the next USB DMA transfer is
proceeding (so USB operations overlap slightly). So in practice, this
USB2.0 card is still limited to the Zorro Bus/Memory bandwidth and will
probably be not much faster than a USB1.1 card.

So why having a USB2.0 card then? According to Mr. Binek, the advantage
comes with installing the Shark PPC card (which is not yet available). In
this case, the CPU copying step is gone and the USB transfers can operate
at full speed."

See also

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/142

I have not seen a clarification on this issue in Elbox website. They state too that Spider is USB 2.0 Hi-Speed (480 Mbits/s) compliant. Why don't you complain also about this?

BTW, this is my last message in this thread.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 84 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 24-Jul-2003 06:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Ferry):
Please read "did hit" instead of "hitted" (ouch!)

and "there is NO HIGHSPEED MODE" instead of "there isn't NO..."

Now, this IS my last message ;¬)

Saluditos,

Ferrán
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 85 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 24-Jul-2003 15:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Rat):
Let me repeat an accusation you made against him... You said that he stole Elbox
code after the rdb fiasco, to make his Highway driver faster, even though all
betatesters know that this speedup code was there BEFORE the rdb fiasco took place...
You are an asshole rat, nothing more than that.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 86 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan on 24-Jul-2003 19:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Phill):
>Some companies are still being nice and only quoting usb 1.1 if they were designed with old chips that came out before usb 2.0.

Well, this is not entirely true. If you have a device certified, you should
label it 2.0 compliant, even if the chips in use were designed when the 1.1
spec was the current one. You cannot claim a device is certified based on the
chips in use. You have to certify the design and then it automatically becomes
2.0 compliant (if it passes of course ;) regardless of the used components.

regards,
Stefan
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 87 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan on 24-Jul-2003 19:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Rat):
> Very nice to hear you introducing yourself in the very first sentence :->

I was just trying to catch your attention, but it seems as if I caought it too
well with that sentence since you didn't care to read the rest of my message
or check the facts.

> There is no way today to sell a device compliant
> with the USB 1.1 spec. It is not supported any longer. If you sell an USB
> device, you _have_ to make it 2.0 compliant. And when you do, you may choose
> too make it a low speed, high speed, normal speed or any combination of them.
> Don't go into details where you have no clue!

>Man, Algor produced by Michael Boehmer is not an USB _device_ but an USB _host >controller_. Can you see the difference?

Sigh! I meant device in the general sentence as 'some thing you plug into
something else'
But since you are so nitpicky perhaps you should know that in the USB
specification, there is nothing in the USB spec that specifies the physical
behaviour of the host controler. It is defined by the USB Hub specification
which describes the behaviour of the root hub which is the lower endpoint of
the host controller.

>How an USB _host controller_ may be compliant with the High-Speed USB 2.0 >_specification_ and at the same time cannot provide support for High-Speed >mode?

Man, can't you read your own words??? USB2.0 does not equal to 480 kbps
transfer rate!
Now, would you please be so kind and download the USB2.0 specification and
clarify to the rest of us where it sais that USB2.0 compliance means mandatory
Hi-Speed transfers.

I cannot find anywhere where the Algor card is labeled a USB 2.0 Host controller
or a Hi Speed Root Hub. All I can find is that it is a Full Speed Hub (ie no
high speed) compliant with the 2.0 specification

regards,
Stefan
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 88 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 24-Jul-2003 20:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Cleanup Troop):
> Funny Bunny. Funny Bunny. Funny Bunny. Hehe, now, Mr. "I have to
> hide behind that funky nickname", go, eat shit or something
> (yeah, rats do .. you are one ;).

Congratulations on your culture and education. You are certainly giving excellent token of the upbringing you got from your parents... they must be proud with you...

I can see you have learned from Chris Hodges how to offend me by referring to my name.

http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=8765&forum=8&start=0&viewmode=flat
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 89 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Jul-2003 20:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Rat):
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, little Rattily is crying :)
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 90 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 24-Jul-2003 20:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Ferry):
> As for "It still reads that 'Algor is compliant with USB 2.0 specification'"
>
> I understand that it accepts devices marked to be "USB 2.0 compliant",
> since it's clearly stated that there isn't NO HIGHSPEED MODE. You
> chose to understand it in a different way, well, just different
> points of view.

It is not a question of viewpoints. Product specification, the Algor card in this case, is not a literary work where everybody can have one’s own interpretation, irrespective of intentions of the author.

Algor is a USB host controller. If a USB host controller is compliant with the USB 2.0 specification, it MUST provide High-Speed mode (USB 2.0). As Algor *does not* provide High-Speed mode, it means it is NOT compliant with the USB 2.0 specification. Algor is compatible with the USB 1.1 specification at the most. This is a USB 1.1 host controller. Period.

Quoted after www.usb.org Nomenclature Site:

'All USB 2.0-compliant systems, such as laptop, notebook, and desktop computers, must by definition support all three data rates: 1.5 Mb/s, 12 Mb/s, and 480 Mb/s.'

> By the way, AFAIK there is no single USB card in classic Amiga capable,
> at the moment, of accomplishing fully the USB 2.0 specification regarding
> speed, due to bottlenecks in the main hardware.

You are wrong. USB 2.0 specification does not specify speed of the computer in processing data coming from the USB 2.0 controller. The USB specification defines speeds of data package transfer, which are to be obtained between the USB controller and USB devices.

> I have not seen a clarification on this issue in Elbox website.

Why you think Elbox should respond in their website to messages from Highway ML? They responded to the message which you cited on the Highway ML. See here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/highway_usb/message/144

-------
"Hello,

> The only buffering mechanism (and advantage) therefore is, that the CPU can
> transfer data from this buffer, while the next USB DMA transfer is
> proceeding (so USB operations overlap slightly). So in practice, this
> USB2.0 card is still limited to the Zorro Bus/Memory bandwidth and will
> probably be not much faster than a USB1.1 card.

There must be some misunderstanding.

Data transfer rate between SDRAM/SGRAM memory in the graphic card installed in the Mediator slot and Fast memory in the turbo card is NOT limited with the Zorro-2 Bus standard.

In Mediator systems, this rate depends on the design of a given turbo card, reaching from 8 to 18 MB/s for the currently available Amiga turbo cards."
--------

> They state too that Spider is USB 2.0 Hi-Speed (480 Mbits/s) compliant. Why don't you complain also about this?

Because Spider PCI card is High-Speed USB 2.0 compliant.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 91 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 24-Jul-2003 20:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
@Alkis Tsapanidis

> Let me repeat an accusation you made against him... You said that he stole Elbox
> code after the rdb fiasco, to make his Highway driver faster,

You are lying. I have never written anything similar to that.

Can you give a link? Sure, you can't because I have never stated anything like that.
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 92 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Jul-2003 20:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Rat):
Rattily, enjoy talking to the stones? Nobody listens, give up, you've lost .. hahaha!
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 93 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Jul-2003 20:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (Rat):
> Rattily bullshit

awefubskjdaskj. Yeah!
Poseidon licencing ceasing on 01-Aug-03 : Comment 94 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Jul-2003 20:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Rat):
Really
Annoying
Troll

Bwhahaha!!
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