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[Files] AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in downloadANN.lu
Posted on 26-Jul-2003 23:35 GMT by Joël EHRET38 comments
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Every thing is there http://falcon1.free.fr/hermans.mp3 Warning : 22MB file Have fun
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 1 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Mendoza on 26-Jul-2003 23:40 GMT
Also added it to http://polarboing.com/amiwest/amiwest2003/


Cheers
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 2 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll on 27-Jul-2003 00:46 GMT
Argh I forgot about amiwest! I really wanted to listen to these interviews live. Oh well, I shall download it now. Thanks for putting it online guys.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 3 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by William F. Maddock on 27-Jul-2003 04:20 GMT
Thanks for the file! Bill, that was a great interview—very fun, yet informative. Now if someone would post a recording of the banquet speech. And we can't forget the Telephone interview that will happen at about 10:30 am California time tomorrow! :-)


Did anyone else notice how the question about Bill McEwen got slipped around? It was so smooth it almost seemed as if Ben didn't even notice that it was asked. ;-)
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 4 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 27-Jul-2003 06:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (William F. Maddock):
"Did anyone else notice how the question about Bill McEwen got slipped around? It was so smooth it almost seemed as if Ben didn't even notice that it was asked. ;-)"

Ben is a clever guy and IMO we are fortunate to have him organising OS 4.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 5 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 27-Jul-2003 07:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Don Cox):
> Ben is a clever guy and IMO we are fortunate to have him organising OS 4.

Got that right. If it wern't for Hyperion, AmigaOS would be dead, and Amiga Inc would still be "pretending" to work on it.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 6 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 27-Jul-2003 08:26 GMT
I had a big "deja vu" feeling when listening to that speech. Ben is juggling with "percentages complete" again (a very flexible thing as judging from past estimates). As is he using his favourite quote "i would be very dissapointed if OS4 wasn't released before end of year for AOne and CPPC".

It doesn't get me excited anymore. Heard it one too many times before.

Wake me up when something is finished.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 7 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 27-Jul-2003 08:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (z5):
No. :)
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 8 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 27-Jul-2003 08:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (DaveP):
@DaveP:

as you seem to be priviliged to some inside info (betatester?), maybe you should enlighten me on why i should believe that this project is going to be finished "real soon" (quote Ben Hermans) now?
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 9 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 27-Jul-2003 08:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (z5):
Believe what you want to believe z5, Im not here to tell you what to think. When it comes out, if you like it, buy it, if you don't, don't.

I am also not in a position ( NDA ) to reveal what precious little I know about anything. :)
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 10 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 27-Jul-2003 08:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (DaveP):
There is no doubt that i will buy it IF it ever comes out.

In the meantime, i don't really get excited by "new AmigaOnes and other exciting stuff". The OS doesn't even run on it yet.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 11 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 27-Jul-2003 08:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (z5):
I understand totally. From an outside perspective of course it is going to look just like that at the moment. :(

Still, everything is just sooooooo close at the moment it is frustrating to have to wait even 24 hours.

c-ya

Dave.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 12 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 27-Jul-2003 09:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (z5):
"as you seem to be priviliged to some inside info (betatester?), maybe you should enlighten me on why i should believe that this project is going to be finished "real soon" (quote Ben Hermans) now?"

I'm not an insider, but I note that every time OS4 is shown, a bit more has been done. It does seem likely now that it will be on sale for the A1 late this year.

The interesting new information is that they are planning a proper package with printed manuals, something we did not get from H&P.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 13 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 27-Jul-2003 10:27 GMT
Is it just me, or does this sound a lot like http://boing.net/amiwest/benhermans.mp3Anyone remember when German television accidentally broadcast the previous year's New Year's address by the chancellor (or was it the president?), and nobody noticed?
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 14 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Jul-2003 10:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (z5):
this time, the percentages being talked about are os4 68k modules
ported to PPC.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 15 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 27-Jul-2003 11:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Bernie Meyer):
When you repeat the same questions over and over you are bound to get the same answers, the plan do not change, the different is that now they are recompiling the models for PPC, they are no longer testing stage.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 16 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Jul-2003 12:06 GMT
Is there a transcription of the MP3 available?
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 17 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 27-Jul-2003 12:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Kjetil):
I am not sure, but I think AmiWest2000 was the only AmiWest so far which did *not* feature a "AmigaOS 4.0 by Christmas" announcement....When you ask the same questions, and a year has gone by, you'd hope for significantly different answers.I am not sure, but I think AmiWest 2000 was the only AmiWest that did *not* feature talk about a "soon to be released, before the end of the year for sure" OS4. In 98, it was the "bridge system" with os 4.0 (see http://www.amigamccc.org/journal/9806woa.htm). In 99, it was the linux-based next "AmigaNG" stuff. In 2000, AmigaOS was declared dead and buried, and "Amie" or "AmigaDE" was the next big thing.In 2001, it was the H&P OS4 for Seneca(sp?)'s AmigaONE that was on schedule and rocking. In 2002, Ben Hermans was sure Hyperion's OS4 for Eyetech's AmigaONE, as well as CSPPC and BPPC would be out by Christmas. In 2003, it's still Hyperion's OS4, even though the BPPC version is now in doubt.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 18 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 27-Jul-2003 13:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Bernie Meyer):
/*
When you ask the same questions, and a year has gone by, you'd hope for significantly different answers. I am not sure, but I think AmiWest 2000 was the only AmiWest that did *not* feature talk about a "soon to be released, before the end of the year for sure" OS4
*/

The first presentation of AmigaONE presented it as a new hardware accelerator where they can slowly move things form 68k hardware depend stuff to PPC environment with out the hardware dependencies so you basically head one AmigaOne design for Amiga4000 and one for Amiga1200, the plan where to deliver AmigaDe first in 2000, the finish AmigaOS4.0 in 2001/2002 before 24 December 2001, this where mostly plans there where some PCB designs presented, the cards never materialized and so AmigaOS4.0 where dependent of this designs, there where pointed out that original designs where to be developed by plan I DCE’s manufacturing facilities by some MorphOS dude some one or tow mounts in this form.

/*
As well as CSPPC and BPPC would be out by Christmas. In 2003, it's still Hyperion's OS4, even though the BPPC version is now in doubt.
*/

I must correct you on some issues Ben replay is always “when it’s ready”, and I continues and says he be disappointed if they where not able to relies AmigaOS4.0 for CyberStorm PPC before end of the year. This changes in dismember when Hypersion where forced to take on the firmware development for AmigaOne, the AmigaOne firmware needed to support the via686b when earlier there it only supported via686a, the i686 emulator that where never planed where added as well, then they needed money to found the development as released a game, Hypersion has head to self finesse them self, as AmigaInc has head no money to give, the AmigaDe where no success.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 19 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 27-Jul-2003 15:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Bernie Meyer):
"I am not sure, but I think AmiWest2000 was the only AmiWest so far which did *not* feature a "AmigaOS 4.0 by Christmas" announcement...."

One could make similar comments about Umilator. There is a lot of vaporware in the Amiga world.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 20 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Stew on 27-Jul-2003 15:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (DaveP):
"I understand totally. From an outside perspective of course it is going to look just like that at the moment. :(

Still, everything is just sooooooo close at the moment it is frustrating to have to wait even 24 hours."


________________________________________________________________________________

This is as opposed to so or sooo or even soooo close of last year.

From an outsider looking in and wanting.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 21 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 27-Jul-2003 15:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Bernie Meyer):
@Bernie:

To be fair, only 2001 is a thing from the current OS4 developers. The rest had nothing to do with Hyperion. So it is kind of useless to bring this up here.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 22 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 27-Jul-2003 16:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Stew):
This is not my problem to solve :)
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 23 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 27-Jul-2003 17:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Don Cox):
Yeah! Sock it to him Don! Umiliate im! ;)
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 24 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 27-Jul-2003 22:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (z5):
Actually, only 2002 was the current OS4 developers. 2001 and 2002 was the current Amiga Inc. And IIRC, both AmiWest 98 and 99 featured Bill McEwen... not sure about 98, though.There is that saying about being doomed to repeat history if you don't learn from it....BTW, in Cologne 2001, Hyperion also "hoped" that they might, possibly, get a developer version of OS4 out before Christmas 2001.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 25 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 27-Jul-2003 22:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Kjetil):
Listen to the MP3s --- both years, there was a very strong statement by Ben that things would be out before Christmas. Sure, the "but this is software development, so anything can happen" disclaimer is always made --- but heck, this guy is the project manager for OS4! And a project manager who in January 2002, only three months into the project, says "A developer release is planned for February with the end-user version following some weeks afterwards", i.e. estimates the thing is a maximum of 2-3 months away from completion, and 18 months later *still* estimates things to be roughly the same time from being finished --- such a project manager is not very good at his job, sorry. Either that, or he was intentionally misleading in the past.In the 21 months since Hyperion has been involved with OS4, I can't recall a single moment when Ben projected an end user release to be more than 6 months away; During all this time, anybody who suggested it would take longer than that was branded a FUD artist with an agenda.*NOW* Ben says the AOne version is less than 5 months away. But is there any reason to believe that he got it right _this_ time, when he got it wrong all the other times?
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 26 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll on 27-Jul-2003 22:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Bernie Meyer):
AFAIK, they were going to do OS 4.0 in a particular way, which involved heavy emulation, but then later on down the track, they decided to do it a different/better way. Ben talks about this in this Q&A session. Also they decided to implement a lot of features that were originally planned for 4.2 as well.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 27 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 27-Jul-2003 22:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Bernie Meyer):
While it's true to say that Hyperion have "mis-calculated" lead time in the past, it's also true that the final outcome has shifted. As he says in some of the interviews, in the begining they were only going to go for a totally emulated system. That probably *would* have taken a "few months". At this stage, we are getting the 4.2 spec in OS4.
But, what it boils down to is that they are doing this on a limited budget however I think even with that, by now, they *do* have an "almost ready" OS. So, the "ready before Christmas" I would conclude is accurate now.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 28 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 27-Jul-2003 22:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (James Carroll):
Of course. There is always some plausible-sounding explanation for delays.<sarcasm>And I am sure, at AmiWest 2004, Ben will tell us how they had to change their whole approach because the responsiveness of the Xmas-2003 OS4 wouldn't have been good enough, and how as an added benefit, lots of OS4.5 features are already in OS 4.0</sarcasm>Once again, I have no problem with Hyperion having a certain attitude (in this case, "OS4 must never be perceieved to be more than 6 months away"), for commercial reasons. I just don't understand how, after 21 months of this, people can still take Ben even remotely serious.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 29 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 27-Jul-2003 23:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (KenH):
Wanna bet? At what odds?And it's not like OS4 is the only thing Hyperion doesn't seem to have much of a handle on. Realsoft 3D was expected to be done "in the course of 2001" on December 9th, 2000 (http://www.creativepro.com/story/news/11235.html), in "2Q2002" on Feb 18th, 2002 (http://www.amigaflame.demon.co.uk/amifru.htm), and still hasn't been released. It was projected to be no more than 5 months from release 17 months ago...."Soldier of Fortune" for the Amiga was scheduled for release in 2000Q4 on June 11th, 2000 (http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/_amiga/news_000611.html). It still isn't available."Sin" was announced to be available for the "Amiverse" in 2000Q3 on August 30th, 2000 (http://www.amiga.com/games/083000-hyperion.shtml). Sheesh! It still isn't available.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 30 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 27-Jul-2003 23:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Bernie Meyer):
I ask the question: what do you care?
But I'll give you this, if the same thing is being said in another year, I'll eat my A1200. :P
Personally, I'd prefer you stayed out of the politics and just made cool software (which as you well know takes a while to make) for both platforms.


>Once again, I have no problem with Hyperion having a certain attitude (in this case, "OS4 must never be perceieved to be more than 6 months away"), for commercial reasons. I just don't understand how, after 21 months of this, people can still take Ben even remotely serious.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 31 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 27-Jul-2003 23:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Bernie Meyer):
Sure, you can concentrate on what they have done wrong. At the end of the day though, lying about OS4 isn't going to make them money.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 32 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 28-Jul-2003 00:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (KenH):
It is though. If, back in 2001, Hyperion had said that they expected AmigaOS4 to be released in around 3 years time, 90% of people would have just packed up and left. Instead, they just keep people thinking it's "just around the corner" and so, people just keep on waiting "a few more weeks". It's a good tactic. Not honest, but certainly good for business.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 33 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 28-Jul-2003 05:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Lando):
So true.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 34 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 28-Jul-2003 08:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Bernie Meyer):
@Bernie:

Yeah, just 2002 was what i meant.

Btw.it's quite funny to see how your "agenda" has changed so suddenly :)
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 35 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 28-Jul-2003 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (z5):
Actually, I haven't changed my "agenda" at all. I have been rather critical of (and to no small amount annoyed at) Hyperion for a long long time. Starting roughly when they felt the need to let everyone who wanted to listen (and everyone who wouldn't run away fast enough) know exactly how they felt about the idea of running AmigaOS on x86 --- I, pardon the strong language, considered their arguments to be completely idiotic and patronizing.
Then, after WOA 2001, for many months I had to listen to "soon, OS4 will be out, and emulator users will be left in the dust! Muaahhahahahaaa!!!!" from people who actually believed Hyperions ridiculous release date estimates.
Then there was the whole software-renderer-for-Warp3D thing, where Hyperion made some rather outrageous (and, again, idiotic) piracy claims to justify letting it be released for PPC, but not for 68k or x86 (both of which exist and were ready to be released as well).

Now, let me state once again that I have no problem accepting that Hyperion are a commercial entity, that their decisions are driven by commercial interests, and that they will sometimes behave in less-than-perfect ways to improve their bottom line. That's business. However, I'd expect Hyperion to simply admit to that. I know they can do it in private email (the software-renderer thing ended up in that medium), but in public, they still try to come across as benevolent victims of circumstance, if not as grossly misunderstood martyrs....

I have a lot of respect for the programmers at Hyperion. Good progranners are exceedingly rare, and Hyperion has managed to employ several. That respect is what has made me bite my tongue again and again and again over the last few years, at least in public (if you were to ask some local people what I thought about Hyperion's announcements, you might find that in the relative privacy of user group meetings, I was less restrained). But at some point, it just gets too ridiculous. They have used up their credibility bonus; A few of the comments in the interview have not endeared Ben to me at all, either. So I speak up. No change of opinion, I just have stopped keeping that opinion to myself.

Please note that the above contained neither of the words "pegasos", "morphos", "bill" or "buck". That's because my opinion of Hyperion has nothing to do with what I think of Genesi, AI, H&P or Microsoft, to name just a few. My opinion of Hyperion is based on past performance by Hyperion; And it would skyrocket if they just came out and said "well, guys, we lied to you back then, and we lied to you yesterday, because we needed to keep you from deserting the AmigaOns/OS4 camp. Our honest estimate at this point in time is that we will have something on the shelves, ready to buy, by date X". Not bloody likely, is it?
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 36 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 28-Jul-2003 15:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Lando):
Well if aomeone's foolish enough to put their "computer life" on hold waiting for an OS, maybe they deserve to be taken for a ride. Not that I believe Hyperion have.


>It is though. If, back in 2001, Hyperion had said that they expected AmigaOS4 to be released in around 3 years time, 90% of people would have just packed up and left. Instead, they just keep people thinking it's "just around the corner" and so, people just keep on waiting "a few more weeks". It's a good tactic. Not honest, but certainly good for business.
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 37 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by alan buxey on 29-Jul-2003 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Bernie Meyer):
SiN was officially pulled from classic Amigas many a moon ago as the
requirements and the usual spec of classic Amiga for PPC gaming was far
too low to make the game be playable.

most of those other games you mentioned will provide a nice trickle
of AmigaONE gaming over the next year

alan
AmiWest Ben hermans Interview in download : Comment 38 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 30-Jul-2003 11:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (alan buxey):
Please note that I was talking about Sin for "the Amiverse", which is what the whole Intent/DE was buzzworded as back then.The other games might, at some point, come out. Which doesn't change the fact that the predicted release dates were horribly off.
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