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[News] MorphOS 1.4ANN.lu
Posted on 27-Jul-2003 15:28 GMT by takemehomegrandma381 comments
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BBRV talked very briefly about MorphOS 1.4 on #MorphOS today ...

"yesterday we played a movie, then we open FIVE "Zoom" windows (new 1.4 feature) at differnt zoom levels and then we moved the curser around...alll this while the second desktop was running ImageFX...then we launched the CPU meter [also a new 1.4 feature] and it read between 70 and 95% -- flashing for a second sometimes at 100%...that was all done on a G3"

I asked: "Did TCP and JIT make it into the 1.4 release?"

"JIT yes, TCP/IP no, but license is signed and integration is being done" ... "we might release it without the GUI...we will think about it"

Apparently, there will be a demonstration of MorphOS 1.4 around 11:30 local time. Now, where were those streaming servers again ... ;-)

MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 1 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 27-Jul-2003 13:31 GMT
> "we might release it without the GUI...we will think about it"

This I will encourage!

Release it without GUI first, then update it when it's ready. Native TCP/IP is wanted badly here!
:-)

(And no need to wait for "MorphOS 1.5" IMO, just upload it to the BetaII FTP as soon as it's ready! And update it as it comes along, with GUI and stuff ...)
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 2 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Jul-2003 14:53 GMT
No GUI is like using Linux in text mode.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 3 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by cahva on 27-Jul-2003 15:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
..GUIs are for wimps ;-)
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 4 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 27-Jul-2003 15:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
Yeah, but hopefully you don't need to reconfigure your TCP/IP every
day..
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 5 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 27-Jul-2003 15:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
"No GUI is like using Linux in text mode."

hmm I've seen some pretty good "text mode" UI's ... have a look at the curses based installers that come with suse and debian, easy to handle yet aren't memory hogs, then theres giFTcurs the curses giFT client which is just lush :)
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 6 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 27-Jul-2003 15:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
> No GUI is like using Linux in text mode.

I believe they meant just the TCP/IP stack with no GUI, not the whole OS without a GUI!
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 7 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Jul-2003 18:22 GMT
MOS 1.4 to be released at Amiwest, I have read. Now,
where is more information about the updated version?
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 8 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 27-Jul-2003 18:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Anonymous):
There was a presentation of it wich was vocally streamed over the Internet. I am sure that some audio clips will be available for download soon. The presentators (names known to us all ;-)) were a little nervous talking in front of a lot of people, but the info deliverede sounded very promising. Nice to hear the voice behind the names! :-)

AFAIK, MorphOS 1.4 will be released during the coming week.
:-)

The broadcasted interview with BBRV was very interesting too ...
:-)

Regarding an early non-GUI version of the TCP/IP stack - I have no problem in setting up a TCP/IP stack through text based config files, and I am sure that most of us feels the same. I really hope that Genesi understands that many people wants a native TCP/IP to be released ASAP, with or without a GUI, with updated versions later on ...
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 9 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Jul-2003 18:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (takemehomegrandma):
Hey thanks for the info :) Sounds good :)
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 10 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 27-Jul-2003 19:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (takemehomegrandma):
> The presentators (names known to us all ;-)) were a little nervous talking in
> front of a lot of people, but the info deliverede sounded very promising.
> Nice to hear the voice behind the names! :-)

Yeah, they thrust that on me about 50 minutes before and I didn't memorise the
release notes and got so psyched up I kinda hit the top of the graph and cycled
back to 0 again :)

Next time it'll be cooler, it didn't help either that I didn't actually see 1.4
until I got to the show, I was too busy (something that didn't make it to 1.4
unfortunately) and it was released while I was in the air over the North
Atlantic.

Neko
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 11 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 27-Jul-2003 19:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Neko):
You got through it! :-)
And it was interested to hear what you have to say, IMO! MorphOS 1.4 looks very promising!

:-)
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 12 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Sjoerd on 27-Jul-2003 20:05 GMT
But what I heard and saw (webcam) is that OS4 is further that MOS.
Even Bill did say that it is far from a commerciel status .
I hope to see 1.4 this weak, and that the superbundle can be downloaded, then we have someting to play/test with
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 13 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Jul-2003 20:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Neko):
ah! it was YOU I heard! :-)

great show from ALL people. Sunday was a lot better than the
saturday in terms of presentation and information. I think
saturday night helped a bit! ;-)

enjoyed listening and watching Amiwest... i borrowed a friends
PC for the task. next time it'll all be done on non-wintel ;-)
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 14 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 27-Jul-2003 20:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Sjoerd):
> But what I heard and saw (webcam) is that OS4 is further that MOS.

No way! It's as simple as that!

Get back when OS4 is running on non-legacy hardware, and more important - when we can run OS4 at all. By that time we can make a comparison! I'm sure it will get there, but it still has a long way to go. People can not use it and it's not running on the A1, how can it be ahead of *anything*? From what I have heard, OS4 is still very prone to crash and it's very far from being usable at all, even on a CSPPC card with the custom chips available. We will see where it is by christmas, and we will see where MorphOS is by then too ...
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 15 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 27-Jul-2003 21:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (takemehomegrandma):
Ooooh!!! Someone hit a raw nerve there. It's strange that everything you claimed to have heard about how unreliable OS4 is exactly what we here about the state of MOS, but you expect us to believe YOUR rumour about OS4 and dismiss any rumour about problems with the Pegasos/MOS. Hmmmm....

I've noticed the Blue crowd are starting to get very nasty again. They must be worried about something ;-)

There's nothing more vicious than a cornered rat...
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 16 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 27-Jul-2003 21:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Darrin):
All people that saw OS4 betas aound and then Mos can tell you that there is no comparison betwenn a NON-Os with a running one. Os4 actually is only a 3.9 with some new components, SUPER UNSTABLE (during the show in Italy it crashed 3 times in 2 mins simply moving and resizing windows), SLOW like hell (it also visually MORE slower than MOS on CyberstormPPC!!!!), NOT PORTABLE (it still require the original amiga chipset) ... pratically a NON OPERATIVE SYSTEM.
MOS IS AN OPERATIVE SYSTEM that runs and substituted perfectly my A4000 in all dayz job.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 17 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 27-Jul-2003 21:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Eva):
As much as I'd love to take your word on that Eva, you past rantings over the long months have totally destroyed any credibilty you may have ever had.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 18 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by GRANDMOTHER on 27-Jul-2003 22:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (takemehomegrandma):
Tsss tss. Disrespecting grandma ugh?
Please don't take my grandson seriously. For some reason he's passed the last years in front of a computer trying to persuade people to buy this obscure computer . We believe this satanic sect is responsible. They've put some virus into some buterflies that turn blue and are infecting people, who, after being biten, worship and work for them for the rest of their lives.
This is serious. If you see any blue butterfly near you get away as fast as possible. You might not be able to get back control of you live, like this poor guy.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 19 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 27-Jul-2003 22:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (GRANDMOTHER):
LOL. Nice to see some humour being injected into this thread.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 20 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 27-Jul-2003 22:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Darrin):
> It's strange that everything you claimed to have heard about how unreliable
> OS4 is exactly what we here about the state of MOS, but you expect us to
> believe YOUR rumour about OS4 and dismiss any rumour about problems with the
> Pegasos/MOS. Hmmmm....

Ooooh!!! I must have hit a raw nerve there. ;-)

There are no rumours about MorphOS, rumours can only live on in the absence of facts. There were rumours in a very early state, before people actually was able to take it home and play with it in the way they wanted. On the MorphOS side of the community, everything is out in the open, and available for everyone interested. The problems and gaps of MorphOS is known to everyone. OS-News did even review the 1.3 version publically! But still, MorphOS is completely PPC native, it runs very fine on non-legacy Hardware, it's available, and people use it daily (me included) as their only/primary Amiga. With all that in mind, I think it's plain ridiculous to claim that OS4 is way ahead of MorphOS. If you really think so, perhaps you should give the current OS4 to OS-News for a public review and let some real Amiga users take it home and bang on it in the same way they are using their real Amigas today, instead of the carefully controlled demos we have seen up till now (where it still crashes despite this)?

> I've noticed the Blue crowd are starting to get very nasty again. They must
> be worried about something ;-)

???

Worried? From what? The Pegasos and MorphOS is here to stay. It has a solid ground and a bright future. In a best case scenario the OS4 is actually released for the A1 end-users sometime in the future. In that case, OS4 will co-exist with MorphOS (at least from a community POV, perhaps not from a business POV), and you can use OS4 if you want to. I will probably continue to use MorphOS since I see no real reason to buy an A1 and use OS4. In a worst case scenario, there will be no OS4 for A1. In that case I will continue to use MorphOS as my only Amiga, just as I do today.

You see - in any way I will continue to use MorphOS as my only Amiga. How am I threatened?

If *you* want something real to worry about, think in terms of business plans, strategies, a solid financial ground, and business competence. That is - The Future! If you think that the choice of CD-recording software (or similar trivial OS features that's perhaps interesting to us Amiga-geeks to discuss, but so easy for the competition to copy anyway) is more important than this, then i'm afraid it's you who have a problem.

> There's nothing more vicious than a cornered rat...

You are not a very nice person, are you :-(
Perhaps you are only cornered ...?
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 21 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 27-Jul-2003 22:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Darrin):
> Nice to see some humour being injected into this thread.

Where?
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 22 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 27-Jul-2003 22:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (takemehomegrandma):
>>You are not a very nice person, are you :-(

I'm actually a very nice person. It YOU that's been acting out of character lately and going on the offensive. I suggest that if you don't want to see your precious Blue camp attacked then you should stand back and leave the Red camp alone. Why do so many people in the Blue camp have a corn cob up their a## with regards to Amiga Inc? In theory, AA, Hyperion and Eyetech should be of no concer to you so why is there a constant barage of insults, lies and trolling taking place against them and why are you becoming increasingly involved?

I'd be more than happy to see both sides co-exist side by side just like the Amiga and Atari ST used to (remember when you could buy certain games that had BOTH the AMiga and ST versions on the same disks!!!). However, I find it hard to stand by and simply watch when a gang of thugs take turns in "doing over" certain individuals simply because they don't want to run MOS.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 23 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 27-Jul-2003 22:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Darrin):
My dear friend. This thread was about MorphOS 1.4. Someone jumped in into this thread with the ridiculous claim that OS4 currently is way ahead of MorphOS. I responded to that, and I tried to discuss it in a civilized manner (without calling people "cornered rats"). If you don't want to discuss the current status of OS4, then I guess you shouldn't bring it up in MorphOS threads ...?
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 24 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 27-Jul-2003 23:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (takemehomegrandma):
I wasn't calling YOU a cornered rat. I'm sorry if you took it that way. I usually try and make it crystal clear when I insult an individual and I usually do it for a pretty good reason. ;-)

Anyway, you're right that we shouldn't be knocking the annoucements of each camp. However, I noticed that almost as soon as Fleecy's Q&A was posted, the usual trolls/comments appeared. :-(
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 25 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 27-Jul-2003 23:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Darrin):
Darrin wrote:

> I'm actually a very nice person.

Hmmm.

> I suggest that if you don't want to see your precious Blue camp attacked then you should stand back and leave the Red camp alone.

I believe the less we think in terms of "camps," the better off we'll be. What's the point of that kind of intentional polarization? We're all individuals with different reasons for being here. Personally, when I read something lame, I respond to that *idea* not to that *camp*. I don't wake up in the morning thinking what kind of trouble I can cause that *camp*. That's stupid.

> Why do so many people in the Blue camp have a corn cob up their a## with regards to Amiga Inc.

Amiga, Inc. has screwed up badly, and has not been honest and straightforward about it and has responded to critics with arrogance and further halftruths, even when the criticism has turned out to be accurate. Any thinking person can see that. It's not a matter of being in a "camp;" it's a matter of having your eyes open. Myself, I spend more time writing about Amiga, Inc. than I should because, for one thing, I keep reading inane statements that are hard to let pass without a response.

-- gary_c
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 26 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Janne on 27-Jul-2003 23:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (gary_c):
>Amiga, Inc. has screwed up badly, and has not been honest and straightforward
>about it and has responded to critics with arrogance and further halftruths,
>even when the criticism has turned out to be accurate. Any thinking person can
>see that. It's not a matter of being in a "camp;" it's a matter of having your
>eyes open. Myself, I spend more time writing about Amiga, Inc. than I should
>because, for one thing, I keep reading inane statements that are hard to let
>pass without a response.

Well said, Gary. I agree.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 27 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 27-Jul-2003 23:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Eva):
Nice to see that extra dose of blue pills(TM) has kicked in.. you're really foaming today.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 28 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jul-2003 01:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Eva):
>Os4 actually is only a 3.9 with some new components,

Right, I think they said it won´t get a new WB in 4.0.

>SUPER UNSTABLE (during the show in Italy it crashed 3 times in 2 mins simply
>moving and resizing windows),

SimplePPC promised to test is as long as neccessary to get it ROCK STABLE
before releasing it. At least they don´t expect the users to betatest it. ;-)

>SLOW like hell (it also visually MORE slower than MOS on CyberstormPPC!!!!),

Didn´t they say slow speed makes debugging easier? :-D

>NOT PORTABLE (it still require the original amiga chipset)

According to Hermans it´s just some grunt work to write a new serial device
and stuff - Macrosystem did it before with Draco AmigaOS

>... pratically a NON OPERATIVE SYSTEM.

I like that one. :-}
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 29 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by XraalE on 28-Jul-2003 01:15 GMT
Look guys (and Darrin in particular), the truth is OS4 is about as far now as the MorphOS public beta was three years ago now. This is both entirely obvious and sold, hard cold fact. If you call stating fact being nasty, then you must live in a nice fantasy world full of pixies and talking animals who are nice to each other all day, and we shouldn't try to force reality on you too hard. You might tear the straitjackets.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 30 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by amorel on 28-Jul-2003 01:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (takemehomegrandma):
"The presentators (names known to us all)"

Hm, no, I don`t know which ones did that presentation, could be so many.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 31 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 28-Jul-2003 01:29 GMT
I'm starting a new camp, its called the 'purple' camp.

The good news, is its the singlemost quality camp of them all.
The bad news is, you can't join it, its very exclusive.

We have only one member, *me*, and our charter prohibits us from taking on
any new members unless they win the sponsorship of no less than 3 current members.

Long live the purple camp.
Down with red trolls.
Down with blue trolls.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 32 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Janne on 28-Jul-2003 01:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (XraalE):
>Look guys (and Darrin in particular), the truth is OS4 is about as far now as
>the MorphOS public beta was three years ago now.

Well, I think that is overstating it a bit. MorphOS three years ago was far from feature-complete compared to where it is today. I'm sure we can trust Ben Hermans when he says most of the OS4 functionality has been implemented in 68k and an increasing amount in PPC. Notably the JIT is not there yet and the migration is still going on, but I don't think we can honestly say OS4 is that far away as you made it out to be.

Now, having said that, I think it is pretty obvious to everyone trying to look at this objectively that OS4 is, from what we can tell from the presentations and demonstrations, far from complete (not talking about features but the big picture). It is not the usable, non-legacy PowerPC system MorphOS is today. Much of it is still in 68k (50% according to Ben Hermans in terms of estimated conversion work), there are still Classic dependencies (even if it is just "grunt work") and Ben discussed of some "remaining kernel work" too.

Whereas MorphOS is clearly a complete PowerPC operating system running on non-legacy hardware (and has been doing this for almost a year in public). Sure, it may still be a bit betaish, but as many MorphOS users will testify, it runs quite nicely. I know, I used to own one. It works. What MorphOS is missing are mostly "application level" features, like the TCP/IP stack, some "Workbench" features. OS4 is probably farther along in this regard, but these features are not as mission-critical as the base is - and as far as the base goes, MorphOS simply is farther along the way in terms of testing and real-world usability.

The notion that Hyperion is not releasing OS4 now because they want to test it thoroughly is overly simplistic. They probably couldn't release it "today" even if they wanted to, or at least haven't until very recently if that has changed. MorphOS on the other hand has been in a pretty-much releasable state for perhaps a couple of years now - even more if you count the earlier betas. This is simply because the MorphOS foundation has been running for years and OS4 on the other hand is more mature in higher level features (Classic source-base, plenty of work on higher level components such as TCP/IP, CD support, HDToolBox...), but its foundation is just now shaping up - probably because it proved more difficult for Hyperion than they anticipated, and also due to history. MorphOS was supposed to only replace the foundation at first. OS4 was started for many components even before the PPC plan was complete.

So, yes, I do believe OS4 will likely be more feature-rich in many ways than MorphOS 1.4 is. A quick look at the feature-lists pretty much confirms this. A more relevant question, though, is where MorphOS is when OS4 for AmigaOne gets out there. That may still be many months away and MorphOS has a lot of time to mature on those higher-end features in that time - and all the while gather new users and support, because it is out there and it is running on machines that many people use as their primary computers. I have no real guesses as to when OS4 for AmigaOne hits the shops, but it might take several months.

I see no reason to distrust people saying OS4 crashed in the demos. As I see no reason to distrust people saying MorphOS has crashed during demos. Both are clearly works in progress and I'm sure both have crashed. But I think it is safe to say the MorphOS foundation is more mature at this time, whereas OS4 may be leading the race in higher level components (certainly MorphOS people "wasted" a lot of time recreating literally everything, something that OS4 people haven't had to do) - that unfortunately haven't got much use until they get their base done first and move all the components to PPC.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 33 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 28-Jul-2003 02:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Darrin):
I'm actually a very nice person. It YOU that's been acting out of character lately and going on the offensive. I suggest that if you don't want to see your precious Blue camp attacked then you should stand back and leave the Red camp alone. Why do so many people in the Blue camp have a corn cob up their a## with regards to Amiga Inc? In theory, AA, Hyperion and Eyetech should be of no concer to you so why is there a constant barage of insults, lies and trolling taking place against them and why are you becoming increasingly involved?
--

You assume a lot... Hyperion's products interest me, a lot. It's just that I
don't see Amiga Inc in the picture... I see them as an obstacle to any future
OS4 has. And I see that after spending 2 years advocating every word they said.

AH, by the way, I think that you didn't notice that MorphOS was flamed from day
*1*. From the day of it's very announcement. Read some old newsnet stuff...
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 34 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 28-Jul-2003 05:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (gary_c):
"It's not a matter of being in a "camp;" it's a matter of having your eyes open. Myself, I spend more time writing about Amiga, Inc. than I should because, for one thing, I keep reading inane statements that are hard to let pass without a response. "

Then open your eyes to the "camp" that is around you! That camp that you are in and that merely by its existence attracts the previously fanatical pro Amiga Inc zealouts who got dissapointed and took their ball elsewhere and became just as pro fanatical MorphOS.

Its quite funny that you tell people that they need to open their eyes yet you fail to open your eyes to what goes on around you.

For these people its not about the technology, its about being in a gang and chanting stupid chants and jeering stupid jeers. There are even the classic idiots like those who used to hang around the Linux community 5 years ago - those that were fanatically anti MicroSoft ( devil incarnate ) and politically pro anything anti-MicroSoft but never installed Linux or used it or really had any deep down interest in the technology.

Ever heard of flag of convenience?

You have as much a tendancy to believe spin on the Amiga Inc, Hyperion and Eyetech situation from the "camp" that is around you as I do question it, perhaps more.

If the people in that "camp" listened to a few of the more sensible people in that "camp" they would spend less time talking about AmigaOS4 and Amiga Inc and more time about their own products and "golden future" and less time blowing in the ears of others right?

Its a human situation, and as such it is complex, pitted with the idiotic and zealous.

So why am I singling you out, because up until a short while ago you were one of the wise moderates who I thought understood the picture clearly on both the camp that he is standing but is not a part of (lol) and the rest of it. How about you exert some of that influence on some of the more inane camp-dwellers and get them to turn their radios down?

Now how about you stick to talking about MorphOS1.4 on this thread? If you can all manage it? I want to know how its progressed from 1.3, and if its worth putting on the AmigaONE yet.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 35 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by morphler on 28-Jul-2003 05:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
Usings linux in textmode is great btw. . :)
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 36 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Turrican on 28-Jul-2003 05:28 GMT
Ahhh! Shut up ppl!

Let me tell you a secret. There are NO CAMPS. There is JUST AMIGA!

WE ARE ALL HAPPY AMIGA PPL - either Amiga classic, Pegasos or AmigaOne! :)
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 37 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 28-Jul-2003 06:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (DaveP):
DaveP wrote:

> Then open your eyes to the "camp" that is around you! That camp that you are in and that merely by its existence attracts the previously fanatical pro Amiga Inc zealouts who got dissapointed and took their ball elsewhere and became just as pro fanatical MorphOS.

Sorry, Dave. The "camp" that is around me is populated by some of the most respected people associated with the "Amiga platform". Look at the contents of the just-released SuperBundle for some clues, or go to mdc.morphos.net, or read the Phoenix site news. These people are the core. Every signal has a little noise on the edges. You only hear the noise, I'm focusing on the signal.

> For these people its not about the technology, its about being in a gang and chanting stupid chants and jeering stupid jeers.

You were you talking about again? ;-) Listen, you know as well as I do that people like this exist on both sides of the fence here. I don't know that either side has more or less. For every zealot that took his ball and went to the Genesi side, as you say, there are many more people who simply made a technology and consumer choice. There are hundreds of Pegasoses being used by people right now; there are not hundreds of these voices flaming Amiga, Inc. at every turn.

> So why am I singling you out, because up until a short while ago you were one of the wise moderates who I thought understood the picture clearly on both the camp that he is standing but is not a part of (lol) and the rest of it. How about you exert some of that influence on some of the more inane camp-dwellers and get them to turn their radios down?

I'm not in any position to exert influence like that. All I can do is participate in these forums like a reasonable person and hope for others to do the same.

> Now how about you stick to talking about MorphOS1.4 on this thread? If you can all manage it? I want to know how its progressed from 1.3, and if its worth putting on the AmigaONE yet.

Well, that was certainly worded diplomatically. ;-) And you said something about influencing the inane? Perhaps a neutrally-worded question rather than one phrased to be flamed would help.

-- gary_c
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 38 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 28-Jul-2003 06:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (gary_c):
DaveP wrote:

>> Then open your eyes to the "camp" that is around you! That camp that you are in and that merely by its existence attracts the previously fanatical pro Amiga Inc zealouts who got dissapointed and took their ball elsewhere and became just as pro fanatical MorphOS.
> Sorry, Dave. The "camp" that is around me is populated by some of the most respected people associated with the "Amiga platform".

This contradicts what I am saying to you .... how?

> You only hear the noise, I'm focusing on the signal.

Good for you, but frankly all you can here in ANN, Amiga.org and even coming into #amigaworld are those that claim that they are in the same camp as you who just do what I have described. Im glad you have stopped denying it.

>> For these people its not about the technology, its about being in a gang and chanting stupid chants and jeering stupid jeers.
>You were you talking about again? ;-)
You were you...? Sorry don't understand.

> Listen, you know as well as I do that people like this exist on both sides of the fence here.

Exactly. Id like both to tone this stuff down, but the point is, its not about forgetting we are in "camps" the point is about the members of each "camp" doing what society has to always do - and that is try and influence and educate the anti-social elements within it.

I talked with a few members of the "blue camp" ( ;-) ) the other day about establishing a detente - about being good neighbours. Consider this our street, our neighbourhood. What would you do? Id like detente.

" I don't know that either side has more or less. For every zealot that took his ball and went to the Genesi side, as you say, there are many more people who simply made a technology and consumer choice."

Of course, again not contradictory with what I am saying. The number of moderates way outnumber the nutjobs on both sides. That difference in numbers should be used to try and drown out the nutjobs with useful dialogue and a bit more detente yes?

" There are hundreds of Pegasoses being used by people right now; there are not hundreds of these voices flaming Amiga, Inc. at every turn. "
Yep. Agree.


"I'm not in any position to exert influence like that. All I can do is participate in these forums like a reasonable person and hope for others to do the same."

OK, fair enough. Just carry on, lets hope a few more people start to follow your example then - and maybe you could have a go at some of them who clearly see you as on the same "side" ( pathetic isn't it? ) like I do with Samface and a few others who make all the noise. Like asking them to stop calling anyone who has an A1 or is waiting for AOS4 as a blind zealout. ;-)

> Now how about you stick to talking about MorphOS1.4 on this thread? If you can all manage it? I want to know how its progressed from 1.3, and if its worth putting on the AmigaONE yet.
"Well, that was certainly worded diplomatically. ;-) And you said something about influencing the inane? Perhaps a neutrally-worded question rather than one phrased to be flamed would help. "

OK, I did not intend that to be flamed. But I take your point that you felt it was inflammatory and will reword in future to suit.

Detente. Please.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 39 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 28-Jul-2003 06:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Eva):
>>NOT PORTABLE (it still require the original amiga chipset)
Note that the Amiga HW clone Draco (AmigaOS 3.1) doesn’t run with the Amiga chip set (e.g. AGA, ECS, PAD)....
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 40 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 28-Jul-2003 07:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Turrican):
I disagree. "Amiga" is actually a camp in itself and no, just because an alternative platform has a convinient solution for Amiga users to convert to their platform, it doesn't mean that that platform wouldn't be an alternative platform. Supporting an alternative platform is not supporting the Amiga, supporting MorphOS or the Pegasos is only benefitial for the MorphOS/Pegasos community, not the Amiga community. The ONLY thing we as Amiga vs Pegasos/MorphOS users has in common, is our roots. However, there are atleast 1 million former Amiga users out there, Pegasos/MorphOS users are no different.

You could just as well say that we're all computer users, then you would atleast be correct.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 41 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 28-Jul-2003 07:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (samface):
When people say there are no camps, they are saying "its not about the politics" or that "we are not really divided, its all about being Amiga a like" and I sympathise with that view Samface and as such disagree with you.

Problem is, for many people, they don't see it like that, its not about the technology its about one ideal or another winning. I think you are in that way of thinking from what you just posted.

MorphOS may not be AmigaOS, but its interesting technology to Amiga users yes?
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 42 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 28-Jul-2003 07:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (samface):
Samface, you forgot that lots of Pegasos owners are still owning and using original Amiga's aswell. We may need to find a new way of calling those folks.. Pegamists? :)
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 43 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 28-Jul-2003 07:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (hooligan/dcs):
lol :)

Seriously though, MorphOS is API compatible with OS3.1 and emulation compatible with a lot of Amiga apps right?

That does not make it an Amiga, it makes it an AmigaOS 3.1 compatible.

As Hooligan just said, a lot of MorphOS owners ( if not all ) own an Amiga.

I think trying to isolate them to the point of they are on a par with Windows and Linux users is too far.

Is it even important? What is important, to me, is to stop the gangland bollocks that is going on - or at least tone it down a bit. :-)
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 44 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 28-Jul-2003 07:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (DaveP):
A community is (IMO) like minded people with the same interest that are united and working towards the same goal. We're not like minded, we have different interests, we're not united and we're not working towards the same goal. Our efforts are in direct opposition to each other and the more we try to deny our differences, the more obvious they become.

May I ask why MorphOS would be Amiga alike? Because it *looks* alike? Because it *feels* alike? Or, because it *operates* alike? Well, none of these reasons would be correct on the technical level, what you see is "just" a sandbox within an OS that operates *completely* different from the real AmigaOS. Wether this is a good thing or not doesn't matter, my point that all this is just a convinient way for Amiga users to convert to this platform remains. Let me ask you a question; is someone using Lindows a Linux or Windows user?
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 45 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 28-Jul-2003 07:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (hooligan/dcs):
Who said you couldn't be both? If I own a Pegasos, I'm a Pegasos user. If I own an Amiga, I'm an Amiga user. If I own both, I'm both. It's as simple as that, really.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 46 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 28-Jul-2003 07:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (samface):
But then, one could also question wether the Amiga owner is still using his Amiga *actively* or if it is collecting dust in a closet somewhere like so many other A500's out there.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 47 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 28-Jul-2003 08:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (samface):
"A community is (IMO) like minded people with the same interest that are united and working towards the same goal."

Well the dictionary sayes:

"Similarity or identity: a community of interests.
Sharing, participation, and fellowship. "

...for this context.


"We're not like minded,"

Well, most of us, regardless of MOS or AOS, want to use a PPC native AmigaOS compatible implementation. Thats where it seems to end. Isn't it enough though?

"we have different interests,"

Not sure how you can argue that. :-)

"We're not united"

You don't have to be.

"and we're not working towards the same goal."

Depends on where you draw the line.

"Our efforts are in direct opposition to each other and the more we try to deny our differences, the more obvious they become."

Profound, but also I cannot give the "direct" bit any credibility, again it depends on where you draw the line. If a MorphOS developer writes an application that runs on A/Box ( no alternative at the mo ) then it can be compiled and rebuilt for AOS4. If a fanatic slams AOS4 and tears down AOS4 and spreads BS on an osnews forum to further MOS ( somehow?!? ) at the expense of AOS then yes I guess you have a point. ( visa-versa for those that take this personally ).

"May I ask why MorphOS would be Amiga alike?"
API compatibility not enough for you? Runs some apps written for the Amiga without modification?

"is "just" a sandbox within an OS that operates *completely* different from the real AmigaOS."

Sorry, its more than that, correct me if Im wrong but there is a 68k sandbox right - where it may or may not operate internally differently from the real AmigaOS but externally - to application software - it does and then there is the PPC native stuff which is recompile compatible. So I can't see how you get to "completely different".

"Wether this is a good thing or not doesn't matter,"
Then why bring it up? Sorry?

"My point that all this is just a convinient way for Amiga users to convert to this platform remains."

Well of course thats the reason it exists, but lets not deal in absolutes. If Peg3 doesn't come along and Q/Box never materialises do you think these users are not going to want to use AOS4/A1? If Q/Box arrives and its not what these users want and A/Box support is frozen in time do you think these users will stick around? Not all of them are mindless prideful jerks, only a very vocal minority. Some of them bought MorphOS on Pegasos for technical and interest reasons and some will want to continue using MorphOS like an Amiga. Can you cut them off?

" Let me ask you a question; is someone using Lindows a Linux or Windows user?"

They are a Lindows user, a Linux user and a Windows user.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 48 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by Andrea Maniero on 28-Jul-2003 08:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Darrin):
Eva is a troll. That's for sure. BUT: at WebbIt in Padova the AOS4 beta was very prone to crashing, even though they were running only little and carefully selected software (mostly AOS4 modules). It was slow as hell (but they were 68k modules), and I didn't have a good impression at all (still a lot of work to be done). Be warned that I was there only on Friday, and not for a long time.
Still, I had much better feelings when I saw MOS 8 months earlier on a Pegasos: it was unstable (1.0), but only when they ran "legacy" software (Photogenics, and some other proggies). It felt way ahead (at least at the foundation level, as Janne pointed out) of AOS4, which, to be honest, might have some extra module since the beginning (it depends on how much the MOS team will be able to integrate in the OS release by the time AOS is released on A1). I can't comment on the speed: obviously a PPC OS on a 600MHz G3 was muuuch faster. It's not rocket science.

Kind regards,
Andrea
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 49 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 28-Jul-2003 08:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (DaveP):
If we would be interested in the same thing, why are we not choosing the same thing? I'm sorry but I might have agreed with you if we were talking about a AmigaOS3.1 compatible PPC OS community, but we're not. You simply cannot redefine the word Amiga in any way you want and expect everyone to have the same definition. Amiga means so much more than just AmigaOS3.1 API compatibility, you know.
MorphOS 1.4 : Comment 50 of 381ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 28-Jul-2003 08:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (DaveP):
BTW, I meant Linux as in all distro's included. Lindows is a Linux distro, so if you say Lindows user, that's the same thing as a Linux user. Anyway, you would agree that a Lindows user is not a Windows user, right? Then where is the logic in calling a MorphOS user an Amiga user?
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