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[Web] Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available!ANN.lu
Posted on 28-Jul-2003 09:01 GMT by Lewis Mistreated38 comments
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Here you'll be able to find the AmigaOS 4 presentation that Ben Hermans made @ AmiWest.
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 1 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by koan on 28-Jul-2003 10:05 GMT
It really looks like OS4 is coming together now. Those screenshots
look pretty cool. I'm impressed by the amount of font types that will
be supported. Finally, a decent Ghostscript GUI, PDF viewer, shell...etc.

koan
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 2 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Marcus Sundman on 28-Jul-2003 11:44 GMT
Damn that server is slow! I'm trying to download the PDF presentation:
Size: 2.0MB, Speed: <1kB/s, ETA: 46min.
Are they serving those Amiga websites through 56k modems??
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 3 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark] on 28-Jul-2003 11:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Marcus Sundman):
Then try to download it @ AmigaWorld.net
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 4 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Marcus Sundman on 28-Jul-2003 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark]):
Link please? The links I see at AmigaWorld point to the same location (i.e. os.amiga.com).
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 5 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 28-Jul-2003 12:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Marcus Sundman):
I got 70kB per second, so it must be a temporal distortion :-)
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 6 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jul-2003 12:58 GMT
Nice!

Hopefully, it's coming together as well as the presentation seems to say. I'm itching for an AmigaOne w/ AmigaOS4. Please, please.. Christmas hopefully?
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 7 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jul-2003 13:42 GMT
"OS4 does not exist, it's a fake!"

Anonymous MOS fan :)
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 10 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Phat Agnus on 28-Jul-2003 13:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 ():
HEY!!!! QUIT USING MY EXPLOIT!
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 11 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jul-2003 15:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 ():
I wondered how many people would notice/compare the two docs
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 12 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by porneL on 28-Jul-2003 15:34 GMT
OS4 looks good. This means that intuition is pretty advanced (although no new(er) icons because of old code in graphics.library).
There are some basic tools and tcpip stack - nice.

But it was shocking that during presentation (Mr Hardware?) appologized that OS4 is slow, because its still beta and has 68k code.
Thats a double-bad news. There is supposed to be JIT emulation there! It seems that there isn't or something is not as fast as expected (although it was ran on fastest classic Amiga!). Second bad - there still is enough of 68k code to have impact on system (why aren't they using+testing PPC code? It was said that its a matter of one compiler switch...)
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 13 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 28-Jul-2003 15:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Phat Agnus):
:-)

(I thought that was corrected by now!)
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 14 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 28-Jul-2003 15:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (porneL):
Well, it's not exactly going to be released tomorrow, right? They still have a lot of development to do ...
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 15 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Some Farker on 28-Jul-2003 15:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (takemehomegrandma):
"Well, it's not exactly going to be released tomorrow, right? They still have a lot of development to do ..."

Right. *IF* they can put the rest of their ducks in a row and get it out by the end of the year for at least the desktop PPC accellerator cards they might just pull it off.

I harbor no illusions about the "A1" version being out before Q2 2004.
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 16 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 28-Jul-2003 15:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Some Farker):
Congratulations! You have just won the prize for most pessimistic quess for OS4+A1 compo :)
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 17 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 28-Jul-2003 16:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Some Farker):
Watch your words !! Beware !!

I know what I'm talking about !

=/
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 18 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 28-Jul-2003 16:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Ben Yoris):
What words are they? That you were fired but never employed?
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 19 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Some Farker on 28-Jul-2003 17:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (hooligan/dcs):
"Congratulations! You have just won the prize for most pessimistic quess for OS4+A1 compo :)"

What's a "quess"?
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 20 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jul-2003 17:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (porneL):
There is supposed to be JIT emulation there!

--- Yes see the TODO list and the Petiuna state.
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 21 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 28-Jul-2003 18:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (porneL):
How you would you like to run all the Alfa code found on Aminet simultaneously and guess what program that crashed?

No.

The answer to the question is migration when you have X number of developers not all of them can work on the same thing at once, you could not get any overview of that being changed, this is way it essential do divide the workload on different projects different library’s and OS resources, and if you do not have the ExecSG up and running should you wait for it to finish until start developing the otter apps do you need the new environment to migrate 68k asm to C code? NO you don’t, should you wait for graphics.library to finish before you start updating gadtools.library? NO update what you can and you do some thing else when some otter pore developer struggle on finishing the graphics.library

No you update the modules and on an existing platform, inn a known stable environment on module at the time, this is how they started developing the JIT or MorphOS0.9 beta for classic Amiga’s or AROS used to test there modules on Amiga68k OS3.x,

There is one more reason for not going PPC all at once it due to the legacy support, OS4.0 is not using a sandbox there are no API emulation so the ExecSG kernel need to work the same way as exec kernel used to work in many aspects, the same goes for library’s, when hyperon head there fist booting ExecSG kernel they already head written many modules for OS4.0 in a OS3.9 environment so they can migrate faster to PPC once the ExecSG and the emulation where working.
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 22 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by ddddddddd on 28-Jul-2003 19:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (hooligan/dcs):
"Congratulations! You have just won the prize for most pessimistic quess for OS4+A1 compo :)"

What's a "compo"?
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 23 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by EyeAm on 28-Jul-2003 19:42 GMT
Interesting slideshow/pics. A few of the graphics could be better. I see they've rewritten DOS in C. So this comes out next year, I guess.

--EyeAm
http://www.rollingstone.com/media/assetaudio_old/9/29/92943/923_92943_7_2250_4500_16660_9_3_321.rm
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 24 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 28-Jul-2003 21:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (porneL):
> There is supposed to be JIT emulation there!

Yes, but it isn't integrated yet. Everything on the show still ran on the interpreter. And that reaches about 040/33 speed (roughly). I think the show version still had the 68k font code, too. The Antialiasing is really slow on the emulation. Our latest stuff has this already ported to PPC and is much faster.

> there still is enough of 68k code to have impact on system (why aren't they using+testing PPC code? It was said that its a matter of one compiler switch...)

What you see is mostly graphics and intuition. Yes, this has an impact on speed. We do have a ppc-native intuition in the meantime but it wasn't on the show.

> (why aren't they using+testing PPC code? It was said that its a matter of one
> compiler switch...)

The library system has changed. It's quite easy to compile code for PPC but some changes are still required to adapt the code from the old library model to the new one. It's not dramatic, but it is mostly grunt work.

For applications, this is a lot easier. Most applications do compile without changing the source code. But for libraries there's some work to be done, and that simply takes a few days.

However, conversion is progressing nicely.
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 25 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by &e=mc2 on 29-Jul-2003 04:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (DaveP):
@DaveP
> What words are they? That you were fired but never employed?

No. You don't remember Ben Yorris saying in early 2003 that AmigaOS4 would NOT be done untill 2004, and everyone raked him through the coals? It's interesting in hindsight to revisit those threads.
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 26 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 29-Jul-2003 05:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (&e=mc2):
I remember him phrasing it as if he had insight into the actual status of the project and Hyperion taking him down a peg or two saying that he was not qualified to make such a judgement in public.

Memory hazy so the details might not be right.

But I also remember him complaining on amigaworld.net that he had been fired by Hyperion and then having to post a followup retraction because he was never employed by them.

So which one?
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 27 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Art on 29-Jul-2003 06:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Marcus Sundman):
Presentation (automatically!) ran fine in Holland through ADSL. Maybe your provider has small capacity.
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 28 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jul-2003 06:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Ben Yoris):
Oh, please, Ben. We both know that you are not the innocent victim you are trying to be. Or do I need to remind you of a certain (maybe insignificant) incident with additive blending modes on the Permedia2?
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 29 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 29-Jul-2003 06:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Art):
Well, I've seen other sites where I get _zero_ or _less_ speed and others here claim to have a REALLY fast download, so there's something a BIT weirder than just ISP problems going on. Because I'm at work and I should NEVER have slow line on my end or our providers end...
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 30 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jul-2003 06:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
>The library system has changed. It's quite easy to compile code for PPC but some changes are still required to adapt the code from the old library model to the new one. It's not dramatic, but it is mostly grunt work.

If a libray is ported to PPC/AOS4, is it necessary to adapt to the new library model or is that a free decision? I'm just about to convert some SAS/C libraries into a form that compiles with gcc for MorphOS. If it is a rtequirement, it would be very much appreciated if your team could adjust the C library template on Aminet right now (clib, if I recall the name correctly) so that people can take the future design into account.
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 31 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Ray A. Akey on 29-Jul-2003 06:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Olegil):
Olegil,

Amiga's server activity jumped to more than 5x normal activity after the posting of Ben's presentation and audio.

Do a traceroute to os.amiga.com and see what kind of ping times you get. If they're good times (typically <50 ms, depending where you are located), then you've probably just hit the server during a high activity period.
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 32 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Niclas A on 29-Jul-2003 07:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
>However, conversion is progressing nicely.

Always nice to hear =)
Thanks for taking the time and adding a comment here so this thread could atleast contain something intressting to read.

//Niclas
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 33 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 29-Jul-2003 08:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
Insignificant is the word :) This "incident" should have changed earth's revolution course !

I'm not trying to be an innocent victim, I'm making fun out of it wich I think is the best way to react :)

By the way, who am I honored to talk with ? ;)
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 34 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 29-Jul-2003 15:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Looked decent, and glad to see that you guys got rid of that insane emulation idea you were talking about a long time back and went after the same mechanism MorphOS uses.
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 35 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by porneL on 29-Jul-2003 16:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Thank you for the answers.
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 36 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by dan boyd on 30-Jul-2003 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Nate Downes):
HUH ?
Same mechanism as MOS? Sandboxed?

What where you reading?
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 37 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 30-Jul-2003 12:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (dan boyd):
You wrote exactly what I was thinking...

Ciao, Alfred
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 38 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark] on 30-Jul-2003 21:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Nate Downes):
Are you daydreaming?

Where did you read that?

Happy AmigaOS isn't doing it the MorphOS way :o)
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 39 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 31-Jul-2003 13:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark]):
Why? Have you really investigated the pros and cons of either way, or are you just relying on anti-propaganda?

Seems alot of people chant the blessings of their way rather than actually putting any kind of research into it .. reminds me of something, ahwell...


- CISC
Amiwest AmigaOS 4 Presentation now available! : Comment 40 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Aug-2003 16:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
Tighter integration versus better emulation in some aspects. Personally i consider the first option better. Programs relying on certain timing are broken anyway (and you got/get uae for those).
Anonymous, there are 38 items in your selection
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