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[News] "No deal, no settlement" says AmigaANN.lu
Posted on 21-Aug-2003 06:01 GMT by SimplePPC299 comments
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Amiga Inc. officially denies existence of AmigaDE deal with Thendic/Genesi. http://www.amiga.com/corporate/082003-mcewen.shtml The recent "news" by Genesi that a deal or settlement was reached in the ongoing lawsuit between Thendic/Genesi and Amiga Inc. is officially denied by Bill McEwen. There is no deal to port AmigaDE nor AmigaOS 4.0 to the Pegasos.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 151 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amigart on 21-Aug-2003 15:46 GMT
Hyperion doesn't like to release software until it is beta-tested heavily..You know Heretic 2, Descent Freespace and Shogo were released after long testing periods...

OS4 is a harder and bigger project and I am sure it will be not released until it reaches a quality level suitable for the end user...

MOS is available now but this doesn't mean that OS4 is crap and doesn't exist..

Please let people choose whatever OS they want...
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 152 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Aug-2003 15:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Bill Hoggett):
Heh, i knew it! ;)

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 153 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 21-Aug-2003 15:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 147 (Bill Hoggett):
Posted by Bill Hoggett (80.46.182.231) on 21-Aug-2003 17:28:28

In Reply to Comment 145:
@Rich

You mean 8/21/03, I hope...

Yeah - typo


Anyway, since the "deal" was supposed to have been done a couple of weeks ago, you'd have though that news of it would have reached the court clerk by now.

-----------------------
I would certainly have to agree with that.

Discovery hd to be completed by August 3rd - I bet there are TONS of interesting stuff there.

And a settlement conference no later than Oct 2nd, 2003.

And LOTS of stuff happening in Nov - many hours of legal work.

Suffice to say IF Amiga has no money there are a number of billable hours of work at $200+ per hour which billyboy has to pay. But how can he pay thousands to the atorney's (they sure as hell won't bill (pun intended) him - ) - and you cannot just ignore court dates etc - Thendic will win the case by default.

So if the case is ongoing then Amiga MUST be paying an attorney.

Pretty good for a company that has no money. Now if they could only do that magic on the consumer level.....
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 154 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 21-Aug-2003 16:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (smithy):
"I agree. But it is amusing watching the antics. There's much else to do in the Amiga community."

You could be writing the script for a film about it all.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 155 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 21-Aug-2003 16:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 154 (Don Cox):
I wonder would it be a drama or comedy or drama comedy?
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 156 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Aug-2003 16:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 153 (Rich Woods):
Can't they get a pro-deo one, or defend themselves without a lawyer? I know nothing of US law, just wondering :)

(And if it's a silly question, feel free to laugh ;))

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 157 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Zimmy on 21-Aug-2003 16:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Lord Baldrick):
I have a title for your upcoming book on the Amiga you claim to be writing.

"Turds in the Punchbowl"


zimmy
East Cabalis
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 158 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by BrianK on 21-Aug-2003 16:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 153 (Rich Woods):
Discovery hd to be completed by August 3rd - I bet there are TONS of interesting stuff there.
***
It'll definitely be an interesting read.


And a settlement conference no later than Oct 2nd, 2003.
***
I assume this is final chance settlement?



And LOTS of stuff happening in Nov - many hours of legal work.
***
If settlement is reached in Oct I'm not clear what legal work except finalization would have to be done in Nov. Of course, finalization could take awhile depending upon the complexity of the settlement.


Suffice to say IF Amiga has no money there are a number of billable hours of work at $200+ per hour which billyboy has to pay. But how can he pay thousands to the atorney's (they sure as hell won't bill (pun intended) him - ) - and you cannot just ignore court dates etc - Thendic will win the case by default.
****
More then likely if the settlement is in the favor of Amiga, Inc. the terms of the settlement will include payment of research and attorney's fees. This is sometimes the hardest part of the settlements.


So if the case is ongoing then Amiga MUST be paying an attorney.
****
I'd guess that more then likely they are paying a stipend to the attorney but probably not the whole fee. But, who knows maybe BillyBoy has an attorney friend in the industry that's doing this for reduced cost to Amiga, Inc? However, the former is more likely to be the case and a partial payment is being done to keep the case rolling.


Pretty good for a company that has no money. Now if they could only do that magic on the consumer level.....
****
Coming up with money is more then likely easier then coming up with an OS. There's houses and cars to escrow. Part of being a corporate leader is being able to sell your vision and story. So, perhaps Amiga is getting a company to fund their legal case for a share of the profits OR such.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 159 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 21-Aug-2003 16:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 151 (Amigart):
Heretic 2, Descent Freespace and Shogo were riddled with bugs when they
were released..
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 160 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Aug-2003 17:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 159 (Neko):
So was MOS 1.0, your point is?

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 161 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by EyeAm on 21-Aug-2003 17:47 GMT
Amiga will win. There is nothing that exists that is going to stop this company. But they need to put Amiga OS on PC motherboards (x86, x86-64). And it needs to be 64-bit with full backward compatability.

--EyeAm (a non-Amigan since April 2001)
http://eyeam.darrelltown.com
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 162 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Analnymous on 21-Aug-2003 18:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 149 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> Got mine from KDH and it does. Wierd.

Weird indeed. When did you purchase yours? Where am I supposed to see this UAE option?
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 163 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 18:16 GMT
Black mark count? As far as i can see its still ...

* Amiga has been forced to unliked decisions, e.g. delayed products, shirts, coupons.

* Genesi or rather bbrv continuing with more and more obvious claims, half truths and lies. I find it hard to believe they have been forced to insult people, present private information, continually put down competitors product (and their suppliers), plant rumors and lies, sue for a non-issue just to waste Amigas time and money.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 164 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 18:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (Anonymous):
Oh right, bbrv said "the fud war is over" ... wasnt too successful i guess? So whats this, operation "legal-desaster"?
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 165 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 21-Aug-2003 18:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (Analnymous):
I can't remember when I got it, it's listed in the systems section of the
registration card. It might have been a printing mistake or something as it
isn't in the German reg card, only in the English one.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 166 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 21-Aug-2003 18:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 160 (Amon_Re):
>So was MOS 1.0, your point is?

MOS 1.0 was clearly labelled a Beta. Shogo was not - it was released as a final, working, product. It blatantly was not, despite all the "thorough Beta testing" by Hyperion. I never got it to run for more than 20 minutes at a time. Sometimes it never even made it past the loading screen.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 167 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Analnymous on 21-Aug-2003 18:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 165 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
OS 3.5 Registration

Date of puchase, dealer
.......................

Your Amiga model
[] A1200 [] A4000 [].......

What CPU does your Amiga have?
[] 020 [] 030 [] 040
[] 060 [] PPC Dual [] G3/G4

RAM Chip......... Fast..........

What graphics card are you using?e?
[] keine [] ..............

Graphics system [] AGA [] CyberGfx
[] P96 [] ...........

Is your Amiga connected to a network?
[] ja [] nein

Do you own any other computers (besides your Amiga)?
[] PC [] MAC [] Linux

What kind of support do you prefer?
[] e-mail [] fax
[] mail [] phone

Do you use your Amiga
[] private [] for business [] both

Are you
[] user [] developer [] dealer?

Do you have Internet access?
[] private [] company [] e-mail only

Additional comments...
....................................
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 168 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 21-Aug-2003 19:04 GMT
I'd definitely say the release versions of Hyperion games have been
"buggier than average". Although there's been some rather buggy games
from other firms too in recent years, Napalm springs to mind.

Anyway, as far as I know Hyperion have been pretty good at solving
problems with updates and fixes, so I don't want to flame them
completely. However, if someone claims that they would have an
excellent track record in this department, I can't really agree.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 169 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 21-Aug-2003 19:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (samface):
Yes.

I invite you to look up the word "release" in the dictionary:

"to give permission for publication, performance, exhibition, or sale of; also : to make available to the public"

So, quite simply, once you move on from internal betatesting with a few select people, to giving it to the public, you have made a release, case closed (but knowing your penchant for ignoring clearly stated facts, I bet it isn't and this thread will reach 300+ again)...


- CISC
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 170 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 21-Aug-2003 19:12 GMT
Well, I'm going to seem like I'm switching, but I will defend Amiga, Inc. on one tiny point.

If you only have a little cash, and a court case is pending, you spend the money on the lawyer, not on past debts.

You have no choice at that point, like you said, you can't ignore a court date, and you cannot just lose, you'll owe even more money than before.

You spend what you have on the lawyer.

Nevertheless, that tiny defense of a possible decision they may make, doesn't mean they should have ever gotten themselves to this point in the first place.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 171 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 21-Aug-2003 19:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 167 (Analnymous):
In mine, it's next to 040, slightly off allignment.
Tweaked for anything like a 3.5 + AForever deal maybe?
I got it from a guy that batch orders from KDH, here in
Greece, dunno if he did anything naughty.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 172 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 19:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 160 (Amon_Re):
MOS1.0 was released for free, it was marked a being beta. Your point is you moron?

You are one reason to stop doing any activity for the whole remaining wait&see community.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 173 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 21-Aug-2003 19:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 155 (itix):
Posted by itix (130.234.189.82) on 21-Aug-2003 18:02:34

In Reply to Comment 154:
I wonder would it be a drama or comedy or drama comedy?

--------------
More like a Greek - well Fleecy Tragedy.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 174 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 21-Aug-2003 20:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 156 (Amon_Re):
In Reply to Comment 153:
Can't they get a pro-deo one, or defend themselves without a lawyer? I know nothing of US law, just wondering :)

(And if it's a silly question, feel free to laugh ;))

Cheers
--------------------
Pro Deo would be for God - and we already have billyboy saying "God Bless" on all his proclamations (or pronouncements - take your pick).

No he cannot act "pro se" (representing himself) as Amiga is a corporation, they are in a Federal court - so a attorney licensed to practice before the Federal bar MUST be utilized.

And no it is NOT a silly question - matter of fact one of the best questions asked in quite some time.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 175 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 21-Aug-2003 20:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (BrianK):
 "No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 158 of 172




Posted by BrianK (204.73.96.203) on 21-Aug-2003 18:10:44

In Reply to Comment 153:



And a settlement conference no later than Oct 2nd, 2003.
***
I assume this is final chance settlement?
------------
This would be a settlement worked out by Thendic, Genesi and Amiga. If there is no settlement then the court case most likely would proceed to trial. Obviously this is a very slim chance as Amiga has no money to pay an attorney.


And LOTS of stuff happening in Nov - many hours of legal work.
***
If settlement is reached in Oct I'm not clear what legal work except finalization would have to be done in Nov. Of course, finalization could take awhile depending upon the complexity of the settlement.
-------------------
Correct - but a settlement is not going to take months - or shouldn't.


Suffice to say IF Amiga has no money there are a number of billable hours of work at $200+ per hour which billyboy has to pay. But how can he pay thousands to the atorney's (they sure as hell won't bill (pun intended) him - ) - and you cannot just ignore court dates etc - Thendic will win the case by default.
****
More then likely if the settlement is in the favor of Amiga, Inc. the terms of the settlement will include payment of research and attorney's fees. This is sometimes the hardest part of the settlements.
-----------------
All parties involved will have to agree on terms of a settlement - it certainly is not going to be in Amiga's favor.





So if the case is ongoing then Amiga MUST be paying an attorney.
****
I'd guess that more then likely they are paying a stipend to the attorney but probably not the whole fee. But, who knows maybe BillyBoy has an attorney
------------------
Bad thinking - an attorney is going to insist on his bills getting paid - they are NOT going to work on contingency since billyboy already stated there is no money and there are multiple judgements against them.

If they have an attorney willing to work under those conditions - they have a fool for an attorney.


friend in the industry that's doing this for reduced cost to Amiga, Inc?


If they had a friend in the industry there wouldn't be all those judgements.



However, the former is more likely to be the case and a partial payment is being done to keep the case rolling.

Not likely.



Pretty good for a company that has no money. Now if they could only do that magic on the consumer level.....
****
Coming up with money is more then likely easier then coming up with an OS. There's houses and cars to escrow. Part of being a corporate leader is being able to sell your vision and story. So, perhaps Amiga is getting a company to fund their legal case for a share of the profits OR such.


A shgare of the profits? That's what they told Bolton Peck also.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 176 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by stew on 21-Aug-2003 21:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (Bill Hoggett):
At last a "Bill" we can believe. You may want to change
your name, as the name Bill is becoming synonomous with truth
stretcher.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 177 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Stew on 21-Aug-2003 21:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Janne):
"I doubt, as usual, that either side was actually not telling the truth. Just another variation of it. It remains to be seen who is more honest in the long run. "


Didn't you mean the bigger liar.



Stew
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 178 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by ehaines on 21-Aug-2003 21:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 142 (MarkTime):
Actually, the one who's made the biggest ass of himself is clearly
MarkTime, judging from the sheer idiocy of his comments ("copyright
law doesn't allow you to install software, only the EULA does"--
sheer, plain, outright ignorance that a simple web search or two
would immediately dispell) and the stubborn bull-headedness in the
face of, well, the rest of the world.

Really, software is the only product ever where one or two
small-minded fools think that the companies who make it get to
dictate specifically what you can and can't do with their product
once you've bought it.

Hint, Marktime, hint: companies do not get to write laws. Why in
the world do you think otherwise? Some kind of corporate yes-man
drone? Have no morals and ethics of your own? Or what?

And yes, having *bought* OS3.9 some time ago, I do feel free to
install it on whatever machine I please. (The fact that I only
have an Amiga to install it on, and thus couldn't break the EULA
anyway, is beside the point.) Since you protest *so* much about
"piracy" when you mean breaking EULAs, I'm strongly suspecting
that most of your software is of, shall we say, dubious origin,
which is an actual crime that could result in actual jail time
for good reason, whereas disregarding EULAs, especially stupid
and unenforceable ones, is not.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 179 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by stew on 21-Aug-2003 21:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (samface):
I guess we can blame BBRV and Genesi for AI's lock out, failure to
pay employees, and failure to make good on the T-shirt/coupons.

Come on Samface and look around at both sides. Don't be swayed by
which OS or hardware you favor. Can you honestly claim either side
is above board and honest with the public? No I mean with a strait face :)

stew
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 180 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by stew on 21-Aug-2003 21:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 142 (MarkTime):
Who is condoning piracy? If a person legally bought OS3.9
and wants to use it under UAE for their own use it is piracy?
I don't like the EULA crap from microshaft and I'm not going
to like it any better from AI.

Stew
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 181 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Shakespere on 21-Aug-2003 21:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 155 (itix):
"I wonder would it be a drama or comedy or drama comedy?"

A tragedy. A really sad tragedy esp for the consumer.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 182 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by EyeAm on 21-Aug-2003 22:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 181 (Shakespere):
Horror.

GENESI vs. AMIGA

Synopsis:It has been less than 10 years since one of the scariest OS companies of all time, Genesi, invaded the dreams of a generation to exact its deadly form of revenge against the status quo. Now, with a terrified group of computer users caught in the middle, Genesi has entered into the dreams of another master of evil - the unstoppable Amiga -- plunging these two titans of terror into a battle to end all battles. A group of Amigans find themselves stuck in the middle of a battle between two forces of evil: silent plodding Amiga in one corner (wearing a Boing ball hockey mask) and gabby dream maker Genesi (sporting butterfly knives) as the battle wages from Europe to a climactic finale fought at Camp Snoqualmie. 1 hr. 37 min.

"Warn the Amigans--warn them all!"...

..."Are we awake asleep or asleep awake?"...

..."Welcome to YOUR nightmare!"...


--EyeAm
http://eyeam.darrelltown.com
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 183 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by dslcc on 21-Aug-2003 23:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Lucas):
I may be somewhat biased here, but BBRV has continually delivered real products. I am very much enjoying my promised Pegasos, my promised MOS 1.4, my promised SuperBundle, my promises ongoing support. My experience with BBRV and company have been absolutely fabulous!! On the flip side - there are many many unkept promises coming from the red side. Can they even be trusted at all at this point? Do they have permission to develope an OS to run on Phase5 hardware? Where will this stop?
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 184 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by dslcc on 21-Aug-2003 23:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (Bill Hoggett):
>I'm not backing up Bill Buck's claims. I'm simply saying that BOTH sides should be disbelieved until such a time as their statements can be verified.

But a person could look at prior track record and make an assumption of who is telling the truth. :)

>I've read outright lies from Amiga Inc before, so just because they have made a public statement on their site does not make it "the truth".

As proven by many prior statements on AINC's site. :}

> OTOH, I have no reason to believe Bill Buck either, as I've seen him play these "games" before.

Except for his recent track record. Odds are that he is telling the truth.

>The only safe thing to to in the current climate is believe NO ONE

I choose instead to believe the one who delivers on his promises.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 185 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Aug-2003 23:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 184 (dslcc):
@dslcc

I did take everyone's recent track record into account when making my comment, and I stand by it.

Until I see verification or independent confirmation I choose to not believe either side. Both have a tendency to spin the truth or half-truth into something that fails to reflect on the true nature of the situation.

BBRV and Genesi _have_ delievered product, and AFAICT Amiga Inc have delivered sweet FA, but that doesn't change the fact that I would not trust unilateral declarations from either of them.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 186 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 21-Aug-2003 23:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 182 (EyeAm):
@EyeAm
> to a climactic finale fought at Camp Snoqualmie.

That must be the new office :D :D :D

AmigaOne! Runs on Coleman Propane! Bear proof!
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 187 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 22-Aug-2003 01:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (Johan Rönnblom):
I find it amusing that only MorphOS affiiated people have such issues with our games.

No offense guys but take a look at the software Ralph Schmidt has produced over the years for Phase 5 for a reference point of "bug ridden"'.

Cybppc.device and SCSI Config by way of example are afflicted with such serious bugs that countless users have lost data, myself included.

If there ever was beta testing going on at Phase 5, I never noticed it.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 188 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 22-Aug-2003 02:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (EyeAm):
> But they need to put Amiga OS on PC motherboards (x86, x86-64). And it needs to > be 64-bit with full backward compatability.

Have you looked at AROS lately? x86 and someone is looking at x86-64. ;)

Dammy
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 189 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Brad on 22-Aug-2003 02:27 GMT
Don't you have to actually be shipping an OS before anyone gives a shit?

Sorry, but I am dying of old age waiting for the next generation of Amiga.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 190 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Aug-2003 02:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Bill Hoggett):
>As Ben Yoris said, the Amiga world has become a complete circus and
>the clowns are everywhere.

He should know, he's one of them
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 191 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Aug-2003 03:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 166 (Lando):
Windows95 was also a final release, it was also riddled with bugs.

For your info, shogo ran fine on my machine, never crashed, so you see, sometimes, no matter how much betatesting you do, there are still bugs that might not turn up under some conditions

Your whole point is a non-issue

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 192 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Aug-2003 03:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (Johan Rönnblom):
I never had issue's with their products, except with Heretic, mainly with the installer, and that seemed to be due to the cdfs i used at that time.

Don't remember the details tho, been to long ago.

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 193 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Aug-2003 03:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 172 (Anonymous):
Personal insults now?

Cool, here, have a cookie

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 194 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Aug-2003 03:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 174 (Rich Woods):
Thx for replying!

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 195 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 22-Aug-2003 04:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 142 (MarkTime):
I think it's fair to say that the Amiga EULA couldn't be used against me locally any more than the Apple one, as long as the only question is whether I'm running on licensed hardware (I mean, I would have to only install on a single machine/harddrive (since a harddrive can be moved between machines without copying at all).

The thing I'm more concerned with is that Genesi are NOT end users, and thus would have to operate under different rules. If breaking the EULA is questionable in your ethics, what does that make bundling with the intent to make end users break the EULA? Surely if the police would do something like that to you it would be called entrapment? ;-)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 196 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 22-Aug-2003 04:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 190 (Anonymous):
Yes but I decided to put aside my red nose and retire...

:)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 197 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Janne on 22-Aug-2003 05:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (samface):
>That's my point and anyone claiming that Amiga Inc. was lying on Amiga.com
>was obviously incorrect.

Conversely anyone claiming that bbrv was lying was, according to this logic, mistaken. Why not bark at both trees? :-)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 198 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 22-Aug-2003 05:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 160 (Amon_Re):
MOS 1.0 didn't go through Hyperion's massive testing procedures. Of course it was full of bugs.

:)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 199 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Pete on 22-Aug-2003 05:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 187 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
-> Ben Hermans

If there ever was beta testing going on at Hyperion, I never noticed it.
ALL, yes ALL your games had lot of bugs when they came out, including your Mac games.

Should I point out some Mac website where there are public article about your games? The advantage with Mac users is that they are not blinded by the fact there is not very much game sand so are far more objective than Amiga users who generally always say: "It's marvellous, a modern 3D game for Amiga, great!" and doesn't take care about bugs because they are already so happy to have modern games as they are very rare, that they don't care about the weaknesses.

So a little lesson for you: Recognised fault is a semi-excused one.
And also it's not very clever to shoot at someone else saying that he also makes bugs. You're acting like a child in a school when a teacher tell him: "write me "I don't have to disturb the class...etc" " and he excuse saying: "But y have started before!" or "But y have done this, this and this".
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 200 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Aug-2003 05:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 198 (Neko):
>MOS 1.0 didn't go through Hyperion's massive testing procedures. Of course it was >full of bugs.

Just like 1.4, so... ;)
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