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[Web] Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion)ANN.lu
Posted on 01-Sep-2003 11:18 GMT by Raffaele (Edited on 2003-09-01 18:03:15 GMT by Christophe Decanini)75 comments
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Yesterday (31 Aug 2003) Amiga.org inteviewed Ben Hermans from Hyperion. You can read about the interview here.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 1 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 01-Sep-2003 09:20 GMT
Help maintainers....

All writings full of ">"...

Thanks in anticipation for your corrections.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 2 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 01-Sep-2003 09:26 GMT
This news item is inflammatory and crap at best. Amiganews???
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 3 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 01-Sep-2003 09:27 GMT
Not to mention that your comments are far from best. The original interview is fine and decent, why dragging it down?
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 4 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Sep-2003 09:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Emeric SH):
The submitter of this not only got the site wrong ( it is Amiga.org ) but seems to be an
egomaniac who wants to give their own remarks undue emphasis under the guise
of posting it as a news item.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 5 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 01-Sep-2003 09:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
>The submitter of this not only got the site wrong ( it is Amiga.org )

Oh... SH**! I confused it with Amiganews. Yes, my fault...

>but seems to be an egomaniac
>who wants to give their own remarks undue emphasis
>under the guiseof posting it as a news item.

Hail Anonymous coward... So in your OWN Realm, freedom of speech, commments, and even humorous critics (with a point of sarcasm) are banned.

I knew how it works there when you king (some asylum elsewhere).

Well I commented (also hyronically) Ben Hermans'statements. So what?
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 6 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 01-Sep-2003 10:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Raffaele):
Your patronizing comments to the interview was not very very constructive nor adding any value to the news item, Raffaele. These kind of things belongs in a forum (if anywhere), not in the news article itself.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 7 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 01-Sep-2003 10:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Emeric SH):
Mr. Emeric SH wrote:

>Not to mention that your comments are far from best.
>The original interview is fine and decent, why dragging it down?

The original interviews covers a lot of topics.

However, what we want to know rely only about current status of AOS 4.0!

And I was disappointed because seems to me that Ben Hermans made a "ring-a-ring" loop in his statements.

What is more ready?

AOS4.0 for AONE or CPPC?

First he said it is almost ready AOS 4.0 for AONE.

At the end of the interview he said that it is AOS4.0 for CPPC their best goal, and it will be finished first.

In the middle he said that he hope that we all will see a Demo booting of AOS for AmigaOne BEFORE it will be ready the AOS for CPPC.

Read the interview carefully!
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 8 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 01-Sep-2003 10:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Raffaele):
You're doing n-i-t-p-i-c-k-i-n-g. Do you have an agenda with that?
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 9 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 01-Sep-2003 10:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (samface):
Mr Samface wrote:

>Your patronizing comments to the interview was not very very constructive
>nor adding any value to the news item, Raffaele.
>These kind of things belongs in a forum (if anywhere), not in the news article itself.

Reading it again I must agree with you.

I must have had writing first the points of interest of the interview ALL ALONE and ONLY THEN...
...in the "first comment" space I must have hadd my sarcasm.

But if you didn't notice it, I explained all in the previous comment. I feel ALOT disappointed.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 10 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 01-Sep-2003 10:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Raffaele):
>So in your OWN Realm, freedom of speech, commments, and even humorous critics
>(with a point of sarcasm) are banned.

No, news items are just presented factual and neutral so everyone are able to make up their own mind rather than beeing forced to accept the opinion of other's. Expressing your opinion is what forums are for.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 11 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 01-Sep-2003 10:12 GMT
Can you point it out to me where he said that the AmigaONE version is almost ready? He spoke about a possible demo version by the Benelux Amiga Show, then booting on AmigaONE. It's far from being ready in my eyes. Maybe I just missed it.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 12 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 01-Sep-2003 10:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Raffaele):
>But if you didn't notice it, I explained all in the previous comment. I feel
>ALOT disappointed.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but please leave it for the forums.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 13 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 01-Sep-2003 10:19 GMT
Ok... Ok...

I have a proposal...

Please Christian can you edit my post and cancel it?

Post you own the news and only then i will made my complaints by citating Ben Hermans'statements.

Huff, pant... I am tired to type... argh!

Do you all agree my proposal???

Hope it was correct!
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 14 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 01-Sep-2003 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Raffaele):
Sounds just fine with me. Thank you Raffaele.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 15 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 01-Sep-2003 10:57 GMT
The proposal is fair. Don't forget to save your comments and post them as what they really are: a comment.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 16 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 01-Sep-2003 11:03 GMT
Ben mentioned support for AGA in classic hardware, this suggests A1 will not support AGA
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 17 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 01-Sep-2003 11:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (John Block):
It's official that the AmigaOne with AmigaOS4 will not support any classic Amiga hardware chipset dependencies in any way. For such games and/or applications you will have to use UAE.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 18 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 01-Sep-2003 11:39 GMT
@Raffaele:
I think that you should put your comments as a ermmm... comment. The submitter's opinion should appear apart from the new item.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 19 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Sep-2003 11:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (samface):
One thing is chip dependencies, other thing is supporting them.
And there's that support for the AGA chips address rettargeting (or however it's called) in the OS with the memory system they're using. If someone did that it would be very cool. There could be an emulator for AGA directly using your GFX card and processor, WITHOUT harming the OS with old dependencies.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 20 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 01-Sep-2003 12:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
Well, I don't know wether your idea is feasible or not, but I do think there is a reason for why neither Amithlon nor MorphOS supports AGA emulation. I would rather encourage developers to support this new generation of Amiga hardware rather than spending alot of time and resources on providing backwards compatibility (which would probably just cripple the OS and restrict it's full potential anyway).
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 21 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 01-Sep-2003 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
@Anonymous (193.249.80.118)

" The submitter seems to be an egomaniac who wants to give their own remarks undue emphasis under the guise of posting it as a news item."

You are correct, but why are you posting anonymously? What do you have to hide from? Who are you afraid will notice you posting here? :-)
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 22 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 01-Sep-2003 12:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
No, there couldn't.Prove me wrong if you feel like it. Take me up on the bet I offered a while back regarding this issue, if you *really* believe it can be done...
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 23 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Sep-2003 13:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
I'm sure this must have seemed very clever when they thought of it but Bernie Meyer has explained why it isn't practical, and the Friedens have "corrected" their previous statements about it to say that they won't be providing any special hooks for this and in fact you should just use UAE.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 24 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Sep-2003 13:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Bernie Meyer):
Oops. I'm too slow to write what I mean and hit 'Add Comment'. You beat me.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 25 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 01-Sep-2003 13:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Raffaele):
"What is more ready?
AOS4.0 for AONE or CPPC?
First he said it is almost ready AOS 4.0 for AONE.
At the end of the interview he said that it is AOS4.0 for CPPC their best goal, and it will be finished first."

Be logical. It is well known that the version for Cyberstorm will be released first and is the nearest to being finished. This one is very near to being finished.
It is also well known that the version for AmigaOne will be released second. This is near to being finished but not so near as the first version.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 26 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 01-Sep-2003 13:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (John Block):
"Ben mentioned support for AGA in classic hardware, this suggests A1 will not support AGA"

My understanding is that there are traps in the OS which would normally generate an error if a program tries to address AGA chips on an AmigaOne, but which could be used by a third party to add an AGA emulation, perhaps based on code from UAE.

Hyperion will not themselves provide such an emulation. Hopefully somebody will.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 27 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 01-Sep-2003 13:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (samface):
"Well, I don't know wether your idea is feasible or not, but I do think there is a reason for why neither Amithlon nor MorphOS supports AGA emulation. I would rather encourage developers to support this new generation of Amiga hardware rather than spending a lot of time and resources on providing backwards compatibility (which would probably just cripple the OS and restrict it's full potential anyway)."

I don't see how it would cripple the OS. The code needed would never run unless a program calls it.

It would be a great help in persuading former users to return to the platform, and current users to stay. The whole purpose of an OS is to run certain programs on certain hardware. The more programs it runs the better.

As for "time and resources" - that is up to the person who does the coding to decide. If lots of users want AGA support, he could make many friends and influence people. That can be a good motive for coding.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 28 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 01-Sep-2003 13:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Anonymous):
"I'm sure this must have seemed very clever when they thought of it but Bernie Meyer has explained why it isn't practical, and the Friedens have "corrected" their previous statements about it to say that they won't be providing any special hooks for this and in fact you should just use UAE."

If you are going to "just use UAE" there is no point in buying an AmigaOne at all.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 29 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 01-Sep-2003 13:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Don Cox):
Don, AA-support(in SW) would need the OS to constatly monitor those addresses,
and when actually used it would force the 68k-emu to sync iself with the virtual
chipset, and somehow I doubt that Petunia or Trance are cut out for this.

Just look at the speed difference between WinUAE and Amithlon which mainly comes
from leaving out this syncing.

It would also cost 100s of men-hours to implement, which are surely better spend
on writing new SW.

And finally, how many apps are there that:
Really need AGA
Can't be replaced with something else.
Are system-friendly (except from using aga ;)
Really need the speed of Petunia/Trance(*)

Wasting so much time for so little, and even introducing a new source for bugs
and slowdowns while doing it, is a futile idea.


* Don't forget that Bernie has started on writing a 68k_2_PPC-JIT for Linux-UAE,
which should later be portable to the OS4 or MOS-version.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 30 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 01-Sep-2003 14:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Kronos):
For once, I agree with you completely, Kronos. :-)
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 31 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 01-Sep-2003 14:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Darth_X):
Mr. Darth_X wrote in answer to an anonyous coward:

>" The submitter seems to be an egomaniac who wants to give
>their own remarks undue emphasis under the guise of posting
>it as a news item."

>You are correct, [...]

Thanks indeed Darth. Now my egotic complex feels egotically self-satisfied from your judgement.

YOUR? But my ego does not contemplate the existence of OTHER PEOPLE!

So you dont't really exist and I was complaining with a product of my own mind.

Bah... So why losing time with you that are only a construct of MY imagination?

LOL

;-))))))))))))))))))))))))))



>but why are you posting anonymously?
>What do you have to hide from?
>Who are you afraid will notice you posting here? :-)

Maybe he suffers from inferiority complex???

;-)))))))))
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 32 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 01-Sep-2003 14:55 GMT
Ok, becoming serious again here are my thoughts about the interview.

I saved it all and wrote it back as promised to Samface and others.

Because I don't hide my errors or worse I don't hide myself after the Anonymous shield when I want to complain regarding something.

Ben Hermans said:

>we would give priority to the AmigaOne version
>after the release of the Cyberstorm version.

This is a very strange fact imho.

And I first commented it:

> Wow! AmigaOne users must still wait!

I must had wrote:

It seems that at Hyperion they think is better not to privilegiate the excellence product (i.e. AmigaOne). How strange.

>>Is there any chance that OS4 will be released
>>before or even during the Benelux Amiga Show ?
>
>I'm afraid it is too early to tell as we are having
>to re-evaluate certain priorities for commercial reasons.
>We are making great progress and I would expect the Cyberstorm
>PPC version to be very close to completion at that point.

And this fact had me supposed they still are in high waters.

Because my thoughts were for AmigaOne.

>Whether or not it will be in a state which we would
>consider releasable is another matter.

And this fact will had me suspected that still CPPC version lays incomplete.

[...]

>I would also be disappointed if we could not demo OS 4
>booting on the AmigaOne at that time.

Really I hope that the Aone version will be ready to be demoed at that time, to avoid further trolls to comment bad.
Go Hyperion, go and demonstrate you are honest with facts not only with speaking.

>>Knowing what you know now, what would you nominate
>>as the *worst* limitation of AmigaOS?[...]
>
>I think the graphics subsystem leaves the most to be desired.
>It barely changed over all these years and it is not easy
>to replace in the sense that quite a few other OS components rely on it.
>We will need to come up with a complete state of the art replacement for OS 4.1.

Interesting. this fact has something in common with the problems with Graphics Library which the Friedens have talk about.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 33 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 01-Sep-2003 14:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Don Cox):
> Hyperion will not themselves provide such an emulation. Hopefully somebody will. Not so easy. Timing issues can ruin usefulness of AGA (display) emulation and you probably need more - CIA timers and interrupts. Another problem may arise if two applications are hassling with custom chips. Tricky IMO and not worth of job. Running new instance of UAE for every emulated application is lot easier and convenient.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 34 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 01-Sep-2003 14:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Kronos):
"It would also cost 100s of men-hours to implement, which are surely better spend
on writing new SW."

Do you really think anyone is going to write new programs with all the features that are in programs coded when the Amiga was a success? Some of those programs had a team of five or six coders.

ImageMaster has several hundred ARexx commands - that gives an idea of how comprehensive it is. Art Effect and "Perfect" Paint are toys in comparison.

"And finally, how many apps are there that:
Really need AGA
Can't be replaced with something else.
Are system-friendly (except from using aga ;)
Really need the speed of Petunia/Trance(*)"

About ten, I think.

Pro Draw, Imagemaster, Scala, DeLuxe Paint, Brilliance, Pixel 3D, come to mind.

Now, I don't play games, but I have lost count of the mails I have seen saying "I've just heard that there is a new Amiga. Will it play my collection of games?" That is what the potential returners want to do.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 35 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 01-Sep-2003 15:04 GMT
I agree too, the time when AGA was important has long since passed.

As a matter of fact, I'll go even further, compatibility with OS 3.X isn't even as important as it once was....

remember the amiga didn't offer any compatibility with the Commodore 64/128 it replaced, and it was a success. Yes, I know it can emulate that machine....but not then.

Same with the very popular Atari ST, which repleace the 65XE/130XE, without any compatibility whatsoever.

How is this still a real amiga? Same as it was a real Commodore, the NAME.

The NAME is, ultimately, all thats important.

Does it sound like I'm a *name* follower....well, heck, I was a 'name' camper for years.

Unfortunately, Amiga, Inc. isn't anything to follow. So, who knows what will happen, but I agree AGA isn't important anymore.

The only thing thats important is who has something to sell.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 36 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 01-Sep-2003 15:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Don Cox):
> Pro Draw, Imagemaster, Scala, DeLuxe Paint, Brilliance, Pixel 3D, come to mind. I don't have Brilliance but I think it could be possible run Brilliance to some extent without AGA emulation. AFAIK Brilliance uses Intuition screens (could be retargetted) and "split screen" is done via system calls. Patching functions like MrgCop() could work. > Now, I don't play games, but I have lost count of the mails I have seen saying "I've just heard that there is a new Amiga.> Will it play my collection of games?" That is what the potential returners want to do. You can't let games kill your OS. Not even on CSPPC.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 37 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 01-Sep-2003 15:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Don Cox):
Mr. Don Cox wrote:

>Now, I don't play games, but I have lost count
>of the mails I have seen saying
>"I've just heard that there is a new Amiga.
>Will it play my collection of games?"
>That is what the potential returners want to do.

Well I agree with you.
But Amiga Inc. and Genesi have promoted their machines in the environments in which Amiga was self respected as a serious product.

And the price of the new motherboards will prevent any gamer from buying them as in the past, i.e. as game-consoles (again).

However if Amiga Inc. and Genesi want to made a great move, they must bundle with their machines a WINUAE version with auto-install CD loaded with a lots of games to satisfy EVEN these potential buyers.

Who wants it, then he will install it.

Or better acquire the copyrights of products such as Pro-Draw, Brilliance, DPaint and bundle them with WINUAE...

BUT

...in a suite it could exchange data with the new environment and the new programs

(I think of a sort of OLE)

What do you think of it?
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 38 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 01-Sep-2003 15:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Don Cox):
>Pro Draw,
DrawStudio ? And ..... ;)

>Imagemaster,
Dunno

>Scala,
Hollywood

>DeLuxe Paint,
UAE (with JIT ?) ought to be o.k.

>Brilliance,
Same as DPaint

>Pixel 3D,
Dunno

>Now, I don't play games, but I have lost count of the mails I have seen
>saying "I've just heard that there is a new Amiga. Will it play my
>collection of games?" That is what the potential returners want to do.

Äh, yes, but there is noc chance these will ever run anything other than UAE.
Fellow or a real Amiga. Most of them won't even run under the OS, but simple
take over the whole computer.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 39 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 01-Sep-2003 15:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Don Cox):
I think you can have limited AGA emulation supporting the most basic init routines and P2C conversion, the only big problem will be Copper if I'm right, getting the sync right can be problem, how ever crappy emulation can be done I think, one otter subject about task sharing AGA chipset, well the best way i think is to have different AGA emulators running per task bases, and that can only be done if it where included in side the task handler it self, if the task tread head a pointer per task that contain extra var space for emulation.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 40 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 01-Sep-2003 15:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Kronos):
@Kronos:
I agree with you... although it would be nice to have AGA integrated emulation it probably wouldn't achieve as good compatibility as UAE and would slow down the system too much, you can run UAE for that games/demos... imho it would be better to have khtml and openoffice running on our platform than waste the time adding compatibility with something old. I think that we could attract new users more easily with an office suite and a proper browser than with integrated compatibility with an old chipset (than can be emulated better with UAE anyway)
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 41 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 01-Sep-2003 16:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Kronos):
To add something to what Mr. Kronos wrote (in order to show there are non aga replacements for old good chip-lagacy dependant software):


>>Pro Draw,
>DrawStudio ? And ..... ;)

Does not Pagestream come recently with drawing program bundled into suite?

>>Imagemaster,
>Dunno

ImageFX
ImageMagick

>>Scala,
>Hollywood

>>DeLuxe Paint,
>UAE (with JIT ?) ought to be o.k.

Better use:

Cloanto Personal Paint
Perfect Paint
TV Paint

>>Brilliance,
>Same as DPaint

>>Pixel 3D,
>Dunno

Does not POVRay come with a good conversion module?
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 42 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 01-Sep-2003 16:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Kjetil):
Well.-. if someone implements 'limited' support, then who's to decide
how limited is good enough. I'm quite sure there will be allways
someone whining for more features and more compatibility untill it can
emulate all dirty tricks and bugs used on demos and relied on those
softwares.

IMHO essential quastion is.. How much each of us is willing to pay for
that emulation? It's not going to be cheap, someone has to find the
$$$ for it.

For me answer is simple. I'd rather see my share of development $$ to
be spend on new applications (and new features on systems like real
good 3D hardware utilization) rhather than making speding it on
emulation finetuning.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 43 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by R-TEAM on 01-Sep-2003 17:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Raffaele):
Hi,

..sorry for my bad english first ;)

To the replacement of AGA only soft with newer one ..

>>>Pro Draw,
>DrawStudio ? And ..... ;)

>Does not Pagestream come recently with drawing program bundled into suite?

I think DrawStudio is a GOOD replacement for Pro Draw !!
Pagestream is nice too .. but to expansiv for only drawing ;)

>>>Imagemaster,
>>Dunno

>ImageFX
>ImageMagick

ImageFX or AdPro2.5 .. nice and MILES better than ImageMaster.

>>>Scala,
>>Hollywood

mmhh .. i have Scalla MM400 LAST RELASE with dongle !
It is .. MAGIC ;)) on AGA and 060 speed.
Hollywood have a good potential ...
but the easy use of scala is legendary ;)
at this time IMHO no full replace for SCALA AGA .... only AmigaUAE ;)


>>>DeLuxe Paint,
>>UAE (with JIT ?) ought to be o.k.

>Better use:

>Cloanto Personal Paint
>Perfect Paint
>TV Paint

I have ALL of this programms ...
PersonalPaint is fine in CGFX/P96 ...
TVPaint is still my favorit in Pixel-drawing on Amiga (only OpalPaint V2
come close to TVPaint )
But .. DPaint have some options that have ONLY DPaint at moment ..
For 8 Bit drawing (GIF-Anims z.b. ) the parallel use of PersonalPaint and
DPaint beets ALL PC solutions !

>>>Brilliance,
>>Same as DPaint

.. i have no Brilliance ...
For HAM usage (the special ability of briliance) i use DPaint V ;)

>>>Pixel 3D,
>>Dunno

I have Pixel 3D PROFESSIONAL V2 ..
It´s run ONLY on AGA ... and is a very GOOD programm for 3D design/konvert ..
with the IMHO relase of Real3D V4 for Amiga this become overhauled ..

o.k. .. thats all ;)
[my first post here]

Regards
R-TEAM
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 44 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 01-Sep-2003 17:18 GMT
Personally I think it's a waste of time, first off all if you are thinking about running games, well most Amiga500/600/1200 games use there own trackdisk loader so you need emulate more then just AGA chipset, and the second problem is the task-based emulation in the new system task are not allowed turn of multitasking, as for almost system friendly programs can work under the some tin AGA emulation with out copper and ham support whit no problem most of this programs work when the program is tricked to open a gfx card screen mode and not a aga screen mode, as long as the it uses the gfx.lbrary to write pixel's and not it's own write pixsel calls, as for system takeover is not supported in AOS4.0,

Ben/H, talks about how bad the gfx system really is, and about improving it for OS4.x, well I can Se a clear direction away form legacy on this one, clearly the snap drivers are only the first step, I can Imagen Ben/H in favor of making the snap drivers the replacement for the CyberX and Picasso96 gfx system, the Cybergfx and Picasso96 (gfx.library) becomes a warper that adds latency to the new system, it's not ideal on multimedia system, when a program is doing pixel writing etc. as for image pasting should not be effected as much mainly due to the number of instructions needed to emulate the argument passing on the system.

In otter words

if you copy a image from one place to an otter place with pixel writing operations,
you end up executing some thing like, (this is not a language, it's a example)

for x=0 to 100
for y=0 to 100
emulation_layer()
color = read_pixel(areaA,x,y)
emulation_layer()
write_pixel(areaB,color,x,y)
next y
next x

when pasting image it's more like

emulation_layer()
for y=0 to 100
write_scanline from areaA,lineY to areaB,x,y
next y
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 45 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 01-Sep-2003 17:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Don Cox):
> My understanding is that there are traps in the OS which would normally generate
> an error if a program tries to address AGA chips

That's called memory protection, Don, there's nothing special at all about it. I could do the same on linux, except that it wouldn't be practical performance-wise, if at all possible due to the very strict requirements on the high resolution timings involved in the AGA emulation.

But this is something Bernie explained very well already.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 46 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 01-Sep-2003 17:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Don Cox):
> I don't see how it would cripple the OS. The code needed would never run unless
> a program calls it.

And once it runs, everything is crippled.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 47 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Piru on 01-Sep-2003 17:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Kjetil):
> In otter words

Otters speak?

> if you copy a image from one place to an otter place with pixel writing
> operations,

No one is stupid enough to read/write single pixels. This has always been dead slow, is dead slow, and will continue to be dead slow.

Of course you'll do it in one w x h operation.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 48 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by The_Editor on 01-Sep-2003 18:44 GMT
I use True Brilliance A LOT on my A1200 (060)

I can't get it to run on UAE ( Useless Amiga Emulator) so if someone knows how ....

I'm all ears (or should that be .. EYES) It would ROCK to have that running on my A1 even if through UAE within linux.

btw.. ought to clarify... I was talking about True Brilliance not running within UAE on my PC.

My A1 still needs some bits !! Ie .. RAM, Psu, dvdrom (getting a Sony dwu 510 burner next week).
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 49 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by BrianK on 01-Sep-2003 19:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Don Cox):
Don Cox wrote -
If you are going to "just use UAE" there is no point in buying an AmigaOne at all.

***
You're correct if all you're looking for is to run AmigaOS3.x compatible programs. However, UAE doesn't include a PowerPC emulator so software that has PPC extensions OR PPC compiled for OS4 won't be able to run.
Amiga.org interviewed Ben Hermans (Hyperion) : Comment 50 of 75ANN.lu
Posted by Some Farker on 01-Sep-2003 21:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Don Cox):
"My understanding is that there are traps in the OS which would normally generate an error if a program tries to address AGA chips on an AmigaOne, but which could be used by a third party to add an AGA emulation, perhaps based on code from UAE.

Hyperion will not themselves provide such an emulation. Hopefully somebody will."

Why? What possible use could AGA support be? Old games? Outdated paint programs? Help me out here.
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