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[News] PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPCANN.lu
Posted on 14-Sep-2003 17:41 GMT by Dan Kilroy199 comments
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GrasshopperLLC and Deron Kazmaier announced on the 12th that PageStream4.1 has been ported to and will run on Amiga OS4.0 PPC. Advanced copies of PageStream4.1 for Amiga OS4.0 PPC available from GrasshopperLLC.

PageStream is a powerful desktop publishing program available for Amiga, Linux, Macintosh and Windows September 12th, 2003 – Antigo, WI – Grasshopper LLC today announced the addition of a fifth supported platform in the stable of computers and operating systems that PageStream already runs on. Amiga OS4 PPC is an exciting new operating system and hardware from Amiga Inc, Eyetech and Hyperion Entertainment that follows in the footsteps of the great hardware and software that is the Amiga.

“Deron Kazmaier, PageStream creator, has exceeded our expectations again!” proclaimed Grasshopper LLC owner Marna Holt. “Deron has burned the midnight oil on his old love, the Amiga, creating the foundation for the next generation of PageStream on the Amiga.” While the full public release of OS4 is beyond our control, the PageStream is not! As the Amiga OS4 PPC is a natural progression from the older 68k, we are offering a limited time discount for those who are moving up to the AmigaOS4 PPC version from PageStream Amiga68k and likewise we are including the Amiga68k version to those who purchase the PPC version before it is publicly released. Crossgrade price from PageStream 4.1 Amiga68k to AmigaPPC is only $40 and the price for a new copy of PageStream4.1 Amiga PPC (with Amiga68k) is only $99. The special offers are set to expire upon the public release of Amiga OS4, and will then revert to the same low pricing already in place for the other platforms. Advance copies of PageStream 4.1 AmigaPPC are available now, but we will continue to stay in step with improvements to OS4.

See our website at www.grasshopperllc.com for more information or to order.

Dan Kilroy sales@grasshopperllc.com (Hope this is ok, first time posting to ann)

PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 151 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 16-Sep-2003 17:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 147 (Kjetil):
"ABOX is an emulation"

<Gaudie> LOL!! You have no idea

On serious note: what does ABOX emulate ? (except for 68k ofcourse)
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 152 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Sep-2003 17:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (brotheris):
No, first off, i don't hate MOS, wether it exists or not does not matter to me, as i'm not a user of said thing.

My current intrest goes like this: AOS4, AROS, Linux.

Currently i'm using Linux & UAE, but i really would love to use a new version of AOS, because UAE isn't that fast on my system, and going out & buying a new PC (or Mob/CPU) just for running AOS is silly, since that extra power would be wasted for the rest of my uses.

Why AOS & not MOS? It's hard to say, there are some things i just don't like about it, having used it at fairs & experiancing it, it just felt awkward to me, there menu structure was different, the prefs were different, the directorylayout was different... It just didn't felt like 'home' to me.

I don't have the same reaction when using AOS4, i immediatly know where everything goes, where every menu is, how it'll react to this or that...

Maybe i'm getting to old to learn new tricks, or maybe i just prefer this worn out jeans over any new trendy one.

But i'm talking about my views of things, i don't want to impose my choices to anyone, and i'm willing to discuss & even try MOS again if get the change, but i doubt that i'll ever buy it.

About AROS... Why Aros? Because, if AOS were to fail, i'd still have my x86 boxes to run AROS on, and wouldn't need a PPC system then, the CPU for me is not so important anyway.

As for linux... well, it's 'better' then Windows ;)

Cheers
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 153 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Sep-2003 17:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 152 (Amon_Re):
"going out & buying a new PC (or Mob/CPU) just for running AOS is silly"

Should be:

going out & buying a new PC (or Mob/CPU) just for running UAE is silly
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 154 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 16-Sep-2003 17:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 149 (Deron Kazmaier):
Just a quick note or two here, Deron. It seems like a lot of the people I talk with in MorphOS circles are PageStream people. Lots! And more show interest when they hear of those of us who use it.

And I think when I filled in your poll I mentioned in the comments that I would be glad to provide Pegasos hardware and connect you up with support. That offer of course still stands. I actually sought you out at Amiwest, but someone else was manning the booth : }


<--greenboy---<<<<
coordinator & facilitator-at-large
Phoenix Developer Consortium [http://phinixi.com]
 
 
 
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 155 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 16-Sep-2003 17:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (brotheris):
/*
Thinking about it more...You don't like MOS, because it is to similar to AOS ? Looks insane jealousy to me. */

Well my comment where on that you liked ABOX emulation layer better then QBOX the environment it self, i found that bit strange really, QBOX is the future of MOS, if you like it or not.

I like MOS, on technical level I like OS4.0 better as it's simpler in it abstractions I think, so it should run faster and there is they key point where I don't need to worry me sick of the new exec not being Amiga like, if you know what I mean, I'm a developer when I don't hang around the forms, not often now days. So I'm where interested in the low levels of the kernel, the top level well nice to Se png icons, etc. speed is good, I have no problem siding with once that have run MOS for one year or tow year and are happy with that, bout don't think for one second I will choice MorphOS at this time when AmigaOS4.0 is so close to break trow,
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 156 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 16-Sep-2003 18:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 152 (Amon_Re):
"Why AOS & not MOS? It's hard to say, there are some things i just don't like about it, having used it at fairs & experiancing it, it just felt awkward to me, there menu structure was different"

I hope you didn't used dopus5 in wb replacement mode.

"the prefs were different"

...integrated into one gui.

"the directorylayout was different..."

How is that ? MOSSYS: is great for upgrades. General lyout is the same.

"It just didn't felt like 'home' to me."

Ah, placebo, this I can respect.

"I don't have the same reaction when using AOS4, i immediatly know where everything goes, where every menu is, how it'll react to this or that..."

Because it was the same wb from os3.9 ?

I find it strange, that you are willing to buy one expensive custom hw for amiga like (os4 is rewriten in most parts), but if it fails you are not going to look into other quite similar product ?
Are you really going to buy a1 ?
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 157 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 16-Sep-2003 18:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 152 (Amon_Re):
> Why AOS & not MOS? It's hard to say, there are some things i just don't like about it, having used it at fairs & experiancing it,> it just felt awkward to me, there menu structure was different, the prefs were different, the directorylayout was different...> It just didn't felt like 'home' to me. Hmm... what you mean by different menu layout? You must mean menus configured to appear on window border?
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 158 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Kjeil on 16-Sep-2003 18:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 151 (brotheris):
The API's you know, AmigaOS Exec and Quark is more advaneced the the old exec from what I understand, there is alot of thing in quark that where never meant be inn AmigaOS3.x,

there are things that do not need relay on the old exec, that can really on quark etc, that wont be looked as emulation, and allows I don't consider the new OS components as part of the emulation, so make my self as clear as I can, how ever there is a communication translation layer or api emulation layer in short.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 159 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Sep-2003 18:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (hooligan/dcs):
>forgetting where MOS origins from, and giving it a finger in

Actually I don't give a crap about MOS, my finger is for Buck ;-)
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 160 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 16-Sep-2003 18:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (Kjeil):
if there is a service in qbox side, then ofcourse abox side will get a wrapper, but not reimplementation. But what about emulation ?
Does AROS emulate to you ?
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 161 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 16-Sep-2003 18:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 157 (itix):
Ah you probably meant Ambient menus... It is different program you know :) But it is irritating when you press [A]+I or [A]+. and nothing happens... icons look same (still using many NewIcons here), many apps are same, but then UI for desktop is different.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 162 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Sep-2003 18:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 156 (brotheris):
Yes i will buy a A1, but only when AOS4 is available for it (be it in beta or final version).

And no, i never ran Dopus 5, most file manipulation i do is in the shell :)

Why would i not invest in another PPC system if AOS4 were not to materialise? Because, like i said, i'm not compelled to do so. This might change if MOS were to get something that would make me go "wow", but in it's current form & shape it simply doesn't 'rock my boat'.

AmigaOS is an old love of mine, and i'd love to see it succeed, but lets be realistic, if it fails, what would make a simular solution succeed? Eighter they both succeed, or they both die, that's how i see it, and abandoning one sinking ship towards another one... no thx, i'll go the 'el cheapo' way then :)

Cheers
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 163 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 16-Sep-2003 18:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (Amon_Re):
Amiga sunk many years ago, and still we are here
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 164 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Sep-2003 18:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 157 (itix):
No, i mean the menu's themselves, the items in them, maybe this changed, and now the menu's are closer to the AOS ones, i don't know, haven't seen MOS 1.4 yet, but there are other slight differences.

Like my current WB, it's not filled with eyecandy and other gimmics, it's a basic AOS3.9 system with select few addons based on the way i work with the system.

I guess it comes down to the way i've been using & abusing AOS in the past.

Cheers
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 165 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Sep-2003 18:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (itix):
And that's one of my grievances with MOS ;)

It's like choosing this VM over that VM... it comes down to the way we work & are used to work, if the UI suddenly becomes a different beast it's easy to feel 'disoriented' by it, even if it still runs the same apps.

Cheers
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 166 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Sep-2003 18:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (hooligan/dcs):
But then again i'm not talking about Amiga Inc ;) I'm talking about AOS ;)

Cheers
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 167 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 16-Sep-2003 18:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 166 (Amon_Re):
So am I.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 168 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Sep-2003 18:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 167 (hooligan/dcs):
Not to flame or anything, but do you mean AOS already has sunk then?

Cheers
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 169 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Sep-2003 18:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (Amon_Re):
Yes, I am waiting for AOS4, only because it has the name even though MorphOS is its equal in every other way.

Live with it.

;-)
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 170 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 16-Sep-2003 18:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (Amon_Re):
At least in Finland. There were lots of Amiga-users I knew here in my town a few years ago.. then some sold their Amigas away, some peoples Amigas broke down and were never fixed. Some people continued using WinUAE for a short moment.. and forgot Amiga/AOS..

Today the fact is that there are three Amigausers here in Lahti (population 100.000). There could be more but I highly doubt it.
The same goes throughout Finland. I find it hard to believe that it's somewhat different somewhere else, as Finland used to be one of the most active Amigalands.

Soon there will be about as much Amigausers in the world as my employing company has staff :(
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 171 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 16-Sep-2003 19:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (Amon_Re):
And I want to add I am not trolling, flaming, gaying or anything.. anyone who knows me or has followed my posting in forums knows I've still got love for Amiga. Situation is what it is...sadly
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 172 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Sep-2003 19:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 171 (hooligan/dcs):
I know you're not flamebaiting or anything, just wasn't sure what you meant there.

Cheers
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 173 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 16-Sep-2003 20:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 160 (brotheris):
/*
if there is a service in qbox side, then of course abox side will get a wrapper, but not reimplementation. But what about emulation ?
Does AROS emulate to you ?
*/

Well to emulate mens to act as some thing else, clearly when AROS hosted on Linux it is sort of emulating it self AROS, the HAL interface in that case is the emulation layer of AROS, when AROS is not running hosted then it's not emulation any thing, 8)

AROS kernal/HAL provides a way that Linux can run programs and system files of an other system (AROS), then you can say that AROS infarct emulates it self, by making Linux act as if it can run AROS programs.

How ever I think emulation is overkill term in that case as it can run stand alone and hosted,
AROS is AROS and not AMIGAOS 68K binaries, even if it can run 68k binaries when compiled for 68k, at least in that case it not hosted. 8)
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 174 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 16-Sep-2003 22:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (Amon_Re):
Lol Amon_re you are really funny. Why can you simply say that you tell in 2001 that Aos4 should be out soon? Why did you hate Mos at the point to tell ..."It's better an emulator..."? Are you an Ainc employ or simply someone that waits to see what will happen while the ruins of the "amiga scene" disappear in favour of an emulator?

AND to rest on this tread ...are you sure that will see REALLY a native running Pagestream on Aos 4 for the end of the year?
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 175 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Sep-2003 00:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 174 (Eva):
Why don't you use all this time you're wasting here to take an english course so that people can understand you better?
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 176 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 17-Sep-2003 03:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 174 (Eva):
Eva, can't you stop? If OS4 is not out in 2003/Q4 it is their problem and their loss... Who cares... Not me.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 177 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 17-Sep-2003 04:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 173 (Kjetil):
You are using wrong term. AmigaOS4 will be same emulator.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 178 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Ville Sarell on 17-Sep-2003 12:17 GMT
PLAEH!

I really HATE to browse through almost 150 posts just to see another MOS/AOS war....was really keen to find more about PageStream, but apparently not in this thread.

fu_k
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 179 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 17-Sep-2003 12:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 177 (brotheris):
You are using wrong term. AmigaOS4 will be same emulator,
Not same emulators and for different reasons,

Tow of the systems have JIT emulation, how they differ I don’t know, manly due to lack of information on ANN.LU form the MorphOS developers,

How the JIT works in AmigaOS4.0 in short, it has source 68k memory area and target PPC memory area. It translate from the source to the target area, the translation process is basing it self on the JSR and JMP instructions in program as well as RTS assembler codes, so in other words different memory segments for PPC and 68k has nothing with the BOX emulation, it just how JIT works, interpreted only one memory area is needed.

(there is nothing preventing a 68k program in OS4.0 from reading and writhing from a shard memory area form a PPC program, there are not barriers)

The API emulation, the AmigaOS4.0 API emulation consist only of a JMP table for legacy, the new library structure improves speed, the new interface is one assembler instruction faster the old design with dabble jumping, the library structure are generated on openlibrary(), so they are only generated once. And it takes less the 1k extra memory per library,

The API emulation on MOS provides more, it provides task scheduling, memory management, and translation layer for Quark. so it emulates more to provide capability with some thing not Amiga, the Quark kernel and in the future the QBOX (QBOX might be the same as the quark kernel this part it not clear) they are thinking of removing or at lest change the behaviour of the task scheduling so that quark/qbox can handles this, this to make ABOX smp friendly I think

AROS has no emulation really, it can act as program under link and by wrapping hardware to Linux, it becomes an system about the same as Java or any other system crated to be hosted.

So there are different emulation on different systems, and the scale of the emulation differs equally, form technical point of view, you should go for MOS if you believe in QBOX, ABOX is heavy emulation layer, if you compare with what AmigaOS4.0 has, the more complicated the API layers the more assembler instructions to read the slower the program, that is my view. Memory usage will not make you program run slow unless, you use all your RAM and forces you OS to move stuff on to the swap, remember old days when developers made SIN and COS tables to hold floating point values, so that they where not forces to use the more accurate math function in math.library this are really slow and they requires more assembler instructions to use. :D
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 180 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Deron Kazmaier on 17-Sep-2003 15:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 174 (Eva):
EVA wrote:
> AND to rest on this tread ...are you sure that will see REALLY a native running Pagestream on Aos 4 for the end of the year?

The only thing in question is if AOS4PPC is widely available ,or not, by the end of this year. This is of course not the point of this thread, even though others have taken it there.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 181 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 17-Sep-2003 15:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 179 (Kjetil):
Err, no. User tasks (i.e. IBrowse, Miami, Ambient) run under A/Box always. A/Box itself run under Quark. Mainly difference is that lowlevel stuff is handled in Quark (MMU) and A/Box can't crash Quark. Not that it was something useful now but in theory one could run multiple A/Box tasks.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 182 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 17-Sep-2003 15:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 179 (Kjetil):
After these words you will not use OS4 when they'll try to implement memory protection (not free memory protection). Hosted AROS is not emulation (as you said), ABOX is not emulation. For the same reason warpup *wrapper* in MOS is not emulation. You can call it emulation, but it won't be it.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 183 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Mr.Return on 18-Sep-2003 11:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 179 (Kjetil):
Hm, what should I say ? Ok: Nice try, but, as usual, due to the lack of real knowledge you did not understand the concept of OS 4. Then you should improve your English to reduce the danger of misunderstandings.
Anyway, due to the lack of time and motivation combined with a NDA I won't give you a detailed explaination of how OS 4 works. But be asured that OS 4 *is* not an emulator, although it *contains* one.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 184 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 18-Sep-2003 16:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (brotheris):
@brotheris:

> but MOS is not like Amithlon, nor like winuae, etc. You know this.

From an user view how can you set them apart? To the user they both have the same 'feel' ...

>> it's about recognition, when you talk about Amiga to someone who knew it who
>> had had experienced it, both of you know what you're talking"

> you mean floppy only a500 ? If not, then you add sentece like this 'it is
> competitive(sp) branch'. That is all.

I mean Amiga experience, when two or more people understands how Amiga works, not just play games...


>> I hope ABOX really is here to stay, I would hate to see AmigaOS dying for
>> nothing whatsoever...

> will you abandon AmigaOS when it won't run your os3.x applications ?

We all agree (I guess) that ABOX is very akin to AmigaOS, but QBOX is to AOS what QNX or BEOS are, alien designs... if that is good or bad I'm not here to judge.. the software made for it just won't run on AmigaOS as QNX or BeOS wont... but AmigaOS 4 is AmigaOS whichever it's future it always be and have the legacy behind it, for good and for bad...

> Because partly they are. For example MOS Dopus4 user comes and asks how to
> create a button, you will tell him, that he is not amigan and should leave
> this (or other) amiga' related mailing list/board ?

I would help me as far as my knowledge go.. but then you're talking about an Amiga program not about the OS itself, which again I don't have nothing against...
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 185 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 18-Sep-2003 16:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (Eva):
___________________________________________________________________________
>> The problem is how rude she can be without saying anything at all...
>> as for all the points about MorphOS being better and more complete...
>> the point is MorphOS would be nothing without Amiga, so all you MOS
>> fussies remember where are your origins from and get a life... there's
>> no need for this 'mine is bigger then yours' if 'ours' hadn't existed
>> yours wouldn't ever be...”

>> No I said no Inc word...
___________________________________________________________________________

> Oky Pixie you are right as all the funny things you wrote from 2002
> until now. Have I to post here all the intelligent posts that you and
> Amon_re puttend on ANN??? It would be really funny for the modernity
> of their concepts LOL

Well you could enlight me...

> And I'm talking on words like "I'm sure that Aos4 will be out soon"
> (June 2002)

AFAIK since then a lot of turn and twists had happened, things and plans had changed, what was supposed to be just 3.9 running on-top of an emulation was changed to actual be a AFA Possible a complete PPC system, but that you really don't care, you just want 'hard facts'... 'proving' that you're right...

But I was talking how 'sweet' you could be when discussing on AOS related threads.. without saying anything at all... as you've done here again!
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 186 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 18-Sep-2003 16:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Eva):
___________________________________________________________________________
>> Most of my grips with MOS are about some of its users, we have many
>> of them that despite saying how their choice is far better then
>> anything Amiga* related keep poluting on AOS threads.

>> Another thing that bogus me a lot is the attitude from BB, he say
>> whenever he can that he doesn't care at all with Amiga brand, but all
>> the time he can, he uses it uses to death at nearly every opportunity...

>> MorphOS hasn't destingued itself from Amiga OS yet, IMO it's their
>> main problem...”
___________________________________________________________________________

> Same here. I can reports here links of your treads and posts that are
> nothing less than fuds or trolling acts.

Bring them on please.. just to show if you do really know what does fud means or if you're just spreading BS!

Here you are, not saying anything at all... at least related with what I was saying...
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 187 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 18-Sep-2003 16:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (Eva):
___________________________________________________________________________
>>>> MorphOS hasn't destingued itself from Amiga OS yet, IMO it's their
>>>> main problem...

>>> I don't see a reason why should they

>> Because it isn't (AmigaOS) should be enough... it should survive on its
>> merits not on merits of others...

>>> We (will) have two paths for the future. It is better than none.

>> The problem is when Genesi finnaly decides what they really want,
>> and if they indeed diverge massively from AmigaOS... WITHOUT saying
>> it before.
____________________________________________________________________________


> Pixie GROW UP!
> Aos start the idea to create AOS4 ONLY at the end of 2001 to stop Mos
> and Bplan! Genesi, Beplan and Mos team have their ideas by 4 years.

By this very same logic the AmigaOS IP owners had their ideas since when.. the past 18 years? What rights on these does Genesi has!?

You seem to forguet that MOS was to be used as the next AOS, but negotiations hadn't materialized so Amiga has choosen another partners for AOS4, as simple as that.. it's not like they were married for life or something.

> On the other side AmigaInc starts to develope something really usefull
> only 2 years ago and this is clear if you see the state of Aos4.
> BHAA really pathetics "See your origins"

But as a matter of fact everytime you spit on them, everytime you claims MorphOS is the only way to go... everytime that you claim your solution as the only way to go.. you forgot your origins

> I'm seeing them, because I use Yam all my dayz, ImageFX, Motion Studio
> and so on.

> And be ckear don't tell me that you can use these programs in a
> productive way on a Cyberstorm PPC simply because they are too slow.
> But I repeat, if you are so blind and want to continue to wait for the
> next year "the return of the original", please, at least, admnit that
> it's a not right market action anticipate by 3-4 years the release of
> a product just to stop another one.

You seem to have a problem with other waiting. I wouldn't mind to try MorphOS but as far as other aliens OSes go I might as choose QNX or BeOS as both are much more mature then both AOS4 or MOS, but they are of no interest to me as they don't have enough software...
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 188 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 18-Sep-2003 16:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (Eva):
___________________________________________________________________________

>>> here we go again.. it's only the name.

>> If it's only the name why does Genesi want it so badly? If it's only
>> the name why MorphOS users wants to be called Amigans no matter what!?
>> It shouldn't matter, it's only the name...
___________________________________________________________________________

> ... really the stupidity of this guy is indescrivable ...
> Mos and Aos4 developers aren't Randel Jesup, neither Mike Sinz, neither
> Andy Finkel or ... Jay Miner.
> Here we are talking about Frank Mariak and Ralph Smith ... about
> Frieden's bros.

So... :?

> They aren't the AOs designers but both liked the original Aos design
> and so? WHat the point? Also Aos4 could be named Hyperion OS. Does It
> change something?

Can I be so stupid because I can't see the correlation between what I said and what you says!? As for Hyperion OS it would be the same if the offical branch was for example AROS... equally! It's a matter of path, what is AmigaOS and what isn't!


> Can Bill Mcewan pathetic AmigaInc be compared to Hi-Toro team?!?
> They are not the same!

Why? Should they?

> Amiga is just a name now. Nothing more.

And MorphOS isn't AmigaOS, can't you see the difference and what it means?
ABOX is an AmigaOS clone, but QBOX isn't, how long will be before it evolves in something completely different from AmigaOS?

> The reality is that there is a company that sells and produces since 2
> years a decent OS and a decent machine.

Pegasos from since 2 years!? Don't make me laugh! A company which doesn't yet have a final product in shelfs only beta stuff? As for decent OS and decent machine there's no question about it...

> And there is a company that during the last two years did only promises
> and 2months delayies.

Which seems you have no intention of buying...

> Is it difficult to understand this little difference?

What is difficult to understand is the logic behind your answers to my and other posts...
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 189 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 18-Sep-2003 16:38 GMT
I post these last comments in this form so one could better understand, as for myself the relations bring by eva made no sense at all...
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 190 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 18-Sep-2003 16:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 189 (pixie):
I post these last comments in this form so one could better understand in context with what has been said earlier...
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 191 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 18-Sep-2003 17:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 154 (greenboy):
"Just a quick note or two here, Deron. It seems like a lot of the people I talk with in MorphOS circles are PageStream people. Lots! And more show interest when they hear of those of us who use it."

Presumably Deron can do a user survey next summer to see how many people are using PGS on the various platforms.

PGS 68k is already an excellent and usable program for MorphOS.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 192 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 18-Sep-2003 17:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 183 (Mr.Return):
/*
Hm, what should I say ? Ok: Nice try, but, as usual, due to the lack of real knowledge you did not understand the concept of OS 4. Then you should improve your English to reduce the danger of misunderstandings.
Anyway, due to the lack of time and motivation combined with a NDA I won't give you a detailed explaination of how OS 4 works. But be asured that OS 4 *is* not an emulator, although it *contains* one.
*/

What type of bias type argument is this?

I think all poster should be from Hyperion and have at least doctor degree in OS design be for posting any thing...
there writing skill should reviewed by panel be fore posting.

(ironic)

before you clam to be so perfect check your spelling 'explaination' should be 'explanation' and
'asured' should be 'assured'

Yes I'm dyslectic what is your expansion, I use spell checker on all my comment many be you should to.

:D
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 193 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 18-Sep-2003 17:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 188 (pixie):
/*
Pegasus from since 2 years!? Don't make me laugh! A company which doesn't yet have a final product in shelfs only beta stuff? As for decent OS and decent machine there's no question about it...
*/

This a type of comment I Se repeated often in defense of the other argument that MorphOS dues use about AmigaOS4.0 not being out... bla bla

If I going ask the other side to drop that argument about AmigaOS4.0 I might as well ask any using this argument about MorphOS as we do not gain any thing with, it just bias.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 194 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 18-Sep-2003 17:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 183 (Mr.Return):
Before you put me in to that category, Like to explain the the tow first lines in my comment where supposed be quited from the otter comment how ever, I just forgot to add the comment start and comment end tags,

BUGS are common just like in your replay.

JMP table is not a emulation it's agreed, It's a consistency layer, or legacy layer, if that sound better to you.

Let me explain way I used that term in there, well OS4.0 uses the new pointer based table right, so the old jmp table is only there to provide legacy, right?, so the old layer gives the new library the ability to act as if it where old, right?

to emulate some thing, is to act as some thing else, and in this case it act as some thing old.

one final not program do not need to use bout tables, only one table is nursery and and one table is not jumping to the other so there is not latency adding layer.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 195 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 18-Sep-2003 17:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 194 (Kjetil):
<small bug fix... v0.1>

one final note; programs do not need to use bout tables, only one table is nursery and and one table is not jumping to the other so there is not latency adding layer.

<more over the old library get the same ability as new library in OS4.0>

Old library's get the ability to act as if they are new as well, (new pointer based table)

Old library's emulate the new library's, or at least the OS provide the functionality.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 196 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 18-Sep-2003 19:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 193 (Kjetil):
"This a type of comment I Se repeated often in defense of the other argument that MorphOS dues use about AmigaOS4.0 not being out... bla bla

If I going ask the other side to drop that argument about AmigaOS4.0 I might as well ask any using this argument about MorphOS as we do not gain any thing with, it just bias."

This was an answer to what has been said by Eva... I usually don't care about the MOS delays, what I care is people pointing things at others without looking first at the mirror...
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 197 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 18-Sep-2003 20:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 184 (pixie):
> From an user view how can you set them apart?

It is an OS on it's own with compliant AmigaOS programs compatibility.

> To the user they both have the same 'feel' ...

When you use OS9 apps on OSX machine and Amiga apps on Windows box through WinUAE, do you see the difference between these methods ?

" PowerPC code does not block multitasking inside the OS box like in emulations where the 68k code is just emulated in some host system's task (then every access outside this enviroment would stop the multitasking in the emulated environment)." from:
http://mdc.morphos.net/index.php?
mode=library&submode=view&artarticle_id=5&artchapter_id=10
(url is splitted into 2 lines)

> I mean Amiga experience, when two or more people understands how Amiga works,
> not just play games...

And how MOS is different ? you have same libs, same mountlists, even same apps.

> We all agree (I guess) that ABOX is very akin to AmigaOS, but QBOX is to AOS
> what QNX or BEOS are, alien designs...

future AmigaOS4 will have allien designs too. Look, you can't effectively have memory protection in AmigaOS3.x like enviroment. MOS developers have chosen proven to work BOX design. Friedens mostly are doing things in different ways just because to be different. This 'war' is deeper and older than those current blue/red wars. Don't you think some of them will laugh if OS4 would use BOX desing (as Fleecy's pipe dream OS5). And if OS4 would have used BOX design, you would still be defending OS4 as you do now, it is THE name.

> but AmigaOS 4 is AmigaOS whichever it's future it always be and have the
> legacy behind it, for good and for bad...

You don't know that. Look at current warpup situation, they are writting LOADERS for software which they know won't have native OS4 versions. And you speak about legacy and compatibility. you can be sure, that sometime in the future (if OS4 will have one), you will be sugested to use UAE "for the sake of the future OS4.xxxxx development".

> I would help me as far as my knowledge go.. but then you're talking about
> an Amiga program not about the OS itself

What software MOS runs now ?
This is getting silly.
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 198 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 18-Sep-2003 21:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 196 (pixie):
Pexie, but please, watch yourself in amjirror to nderstand and repeate your self " IWas sure in 2001 that an OS could be released in 2 months"
Than open your mind and repeate yourself "I'm really really a wise man"
And you was one of the first people to be ironic on the topic about the rel and specs of Mos1.4

"Yes I'm the 2 months waiter but just from 2001"
PageStream4.1 for AmigaOS4.0 PPC : Comment 199 of 199ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 19-Sep-2003 14:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 197 (brotheris):
@brotheris:

> And how MOS is different ? you have same libs, same mountlists, even same apps.

Exactly... but it's Amiga experience, not MorphOS experience...

@Eva

> Pexie, but please, watch yourself in amjirror to nderstand and repeate your
> self " IWas sure in 2001 that an OS could be released in 2 months"
> Than open your mind and repeate yourself "I'm really really a wise man"

"Open your mind" said by you means absolutely... nothing!

> And you was one of the first people to be ironic on the topic about the rel
> and specs of Mos1.4

Please bring up the facts or shut the F*ck up!

"Yes I'm the 2 months waiter but just from 2001"
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