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[Web] Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System ControllersANN.lu
Posted on 15-Sep-2003 15:11 GMT by takemehomegrandma39 comments
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Marvell has announced a Discovery System Controller for the "G5"!

Marvell® and IBM today announced a relationship to accelerate the adoption of IBM PowerPC 970 processors in next-generation networking, storage and server systems. As part of the agreement, Marvell plans to extend its market-leading family of Discovery™ chipsets with new system controllers that include IBM's high-speed PowerPC 970 Elastic Interface technology.

Read more at: http://www.marvell.com/press/pressNewsDisplay.do?releaseID=382

Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 1 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by IamCleverToo on 15-Sep-2003 13:47 GMT
This is great news!!! Now both potential Pegasos and AmigaOne buyers have a better future now that there are more developed for PPC970 products, now this is one more PPC970 northbridge on the market!
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 2 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Sep-2003 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (IamCleverToo):
Quite a bit of extra work would have to happen before either of these motherboards could use this northbridge.
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 3 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 15-Sep-2003 13:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (IamCleverToo):
Yes, Genesi has announced plans for a PPC 970 based Pegasos. They have never mentioned the usage of a Marvell controller in that computer, but I guess that it wouldn't be too wild to guess that one of these chips will be used, given the fact that they will use another Marvell controller in the Peg2, and that "The Discovery 970 is software compatible with the existing Marvell system controllers helping to preserve customer software investments while accelerating development cycles" ...
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 4 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 15-Sep-2003 14:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (takemehomegrandma):
takemehomegrandma:

 ;  }
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 5 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 15-Sep-2003 14:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (IamCleverToo):
"Now both potential Pegasos and AmigaOne buyers have a better future"

Only if Marvell ship 1000's quantities
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 6 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Sep-2003 14:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (greenboy):
Ooooh nudge nudge wink wink sailor boy.... or is that a different emoticon?
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 7 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by IamCleverToo on 15-Sep-2003 14:15 GMT
"Marvell plans to make samples of its Discovery 970 chipsets available in the first quarter of 2004. IBM plans to make its PowerPC 970 processor available in the first quarter of 2004."

If the 970 isn't available until after Jan 2004... what CPU is shipping in the APPLE G5???
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 8 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 15-Sep-2003 14:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (IamCleverToo):
Perhaps Apple have an exclusive deal?
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 9 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 15-Sep-2003 14:20 GMT
I have read on a Mac site somewhere that Mac processor upgrade producers were having troubles with the G5 because of cooling issues.
We will need more cpu intense apps to take advantage of such beasts.
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 10 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 15-Sep-2003 15:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Christophe Decanini):
like deluxe paint? ;-)
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 11 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 15-Sep-2003 15:17 GMT
BTW... great news! PegasosIII mmmm yum yum :-)
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 12 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Sep-2003 16:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
..well, surely they'd just have to stick the new chip on the PegIII motherboard. after all, thats all they claim is needed for the PegII! ;-)
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 13 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Sep-2003 16:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (takemehomegrandma):
Well, saying they will use part X in the future because they already use part Y from the same company is silly.

If someone else were to create a simular chip with better performance/price ratio i'd assume they'd go for the latter.

Would you not agree?

cheers
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 14 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-Sep-2003 16:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (takemehomegrandma):
"Perhaps Apple have an exclusive deal?"

They do indeed. These chips are only being developed because Apple asked for them.
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 15 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-Sep-2003 16:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Christophe Decanini):
"We will need more cpu intense apps to take advantage of such beasts."

ProStation Audio and Audio Evolution would be good examples.
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 16 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Oric1 on 15-Sep-2003 16:48 GMT
Hi,

Having a chipset to support the 970 is one thing, but what is really important in the new Apple G5 computer is the new motherboard architecture.
As far I remember BB said that the PegasosIII will be a lot simpler, meaning less powerfull ?

Regards

Oric1
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 17 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Sep-2003 17:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (IamCleverToo):
>If the 970 isn't available until after Jan 2004... what CPU is shipping in the APPLE G5???

It ships with Steven Jobs inside (that's why it's so big and has so good ventilation, nine fans)
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 18 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 15-Sep-2003 17:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Oric1):
/* As far I remember BB said that the PegasosIII will be a lot simpler, meaning less powerfull ? */

Not necessary it can mean more cost efficient, less part's if there is any thing that can be removed, smaller leay out, better designed.

Personal I think it's bad selection of words from BB as it can read any way you like, or is that good thing? :D
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 19 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 15-Sep-2003 17:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Amon_Re):
Well.. we see. IMHO (as electronics designer) it's easier to work with
one company and single family of chips than to hunt for another,
totally independent and incompatible source. So I do consider it
highly likely route to Pegasos 3.

But these things take time. So.. perhaps we should try to concentrate
what's supposed to be available meanwhile.
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 20 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 15-Sep-2003 17:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Amon_Re):
/*
Well, saying they will use part X in the future because they already use part Y from the same company is silly.
*/

I think having experience with one type of products, if that experience is positive it favor to continuing whit that range of products, if negative it counts as not continuing, so fare there heave not being any rapport of bugs with pegII so, well I think it's fare view..

/*
If someone else were to create a simular chip with better performance/price ratio i'd assume they'd go for the latter.
*/

Not necessary if that product is not tested in real life then there is risk adapting that part of technology in to the design, in particle when they have failed with PegI design in the past.
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 21 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 15-Sep-2003 18:13 GMT
It's nice to see that there will be choice in the PowerPC world as well, and even if just in some ways, the future looks secure.
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 22 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Sep-2003 18:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (JoannaK):
I agree, but seeing that the 970 is an entirely different beast then the current ships it is quite possible that these chips will be as different for their current creations as the next best thing.

But this is all very nice & all, but it's speculation ;)

Cheers
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 23 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Sep-2003 18:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Kjetil):
We'll see what happens, it's still a while away from now ;)

Cheers
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 24 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Sep-2003 18:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Amon_Re):
Hopefully we'll see AmigaOS 4.0 before then!
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 25 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Megol on 15-Sep-2003 20:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Don Cox):
IBM build the PPC970 for use in their low-end servers and blade systems, that Apple wants to use it is just a bonus.
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 26 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Sep-2003 02:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Anonymous):
That reminds me, wasn't BBRV going to make a joint pressrelease with IBM?

Cheers
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 27 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 16-Sep-2003 05:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Amon_Re):
Yes, with the commercial release of the Pegasos II. For the Pegasos III...let's re-visit that in January 2004. ;-) How about we do not get tooooo far ahead of ourselves!
R&B
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 28 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by MiniBobF on 16-Sep-2003 06:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (bbrv):
Exciting news indeed. You guys just need to hope AmigaOS4 will be ported to it. I'm certainly hoping that'll be the case.

Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 29 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-Sep-2003 06:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Megol):
This story covers the background to the 970. It was developed because Aplle wanted it, and no doubt IBM saw an opportunity of other sales in their own products and even to outside companies such as MAI.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030912124002.shtml
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 30 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 16-Sep-2003 09:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Don Cox):
Their ppc to intel needing potentially evey program recompiling is interesting as aos5 is supposed to be run anywhere, and as I understand run amiga software everywhere.

So aos5 would run older software but not ppc software, or ppc software would need a recompile.
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 31 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-Sep-2003 09:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (John Block):
"Their ppc to intel needing potentially evey program recompiling is interesting as aos5 is supposed to be run anywhere, and as I understand run amiga software everywhere."

I suggest forgetting about this dream, at least until you see the DE running everywhere. Let's see if we get a fully working AOS 4 first (I am thinking of something like a 4.3 with all the things that they didn't have time to fix for 4.0). That will be good enough for me. (Really, 3.9 is fine here.)
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 32 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 16-Sep-2003 10:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Emeric SH):
> It's nice to see that there will be choice in the PowerPC world as well, and
> even if just in some ways, the future looks secure.

It would be nice if AmigaOS was to be allowed to take advantage of more options, as well as the currently available PPC 970 options...
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 33 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Sep-2003 10:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Seehund):
Nice? Yes, feasable on the short turn? No

The more hardware you support the bigger the logistics that come behind it.
Imagine it, instead of supporting 1 or 2 hardware configs you would suddenly need to support other systems, not only does one need to write HALs for these other systems (wich, depending on the differences with already supported machines might be an enormous task), but you would also need people that know each & every supported system well enough.


This might be feasable in larger markets, but at the short turn i'd guess it would be too expensive.

Just my 2 cents tho

Cheers
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 34 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by EmGee on 16-Sep-2003 11:52 GMT
When the G5 (if ever!) comes available for an AmigaX computer or Pegasos, Apple is already at G7 or so. Amiga and Pegasos only get left overs !
And the reason why the G5 Mac is so hard to get is that some University in the USA has ordered a whole bunch (>1000) for a GRID of Macs to use it as a super computer. Apple prefers to sell Mac's to Universities/Colleges/Schools, because when students get used to Macs during their study, they probably will buy a Mac when they get to work after their study.

But G5 on Amiga/PEg.... dream on... dream on...
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 35 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by BrianK on 16-Sep-2003 12:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (EmGee):
When the G5 (if ever!) comes available for an AmigaX computer or Pegasos, Apple is already at G7 or so. Amiga and Pegasos only get left overs !
----
While it appears this is currently the case there's been other logistic problems in the G3/G4 motherboards for the Amiga and PegasOS systems. It seems that these are late in comming compared to Apple. However, if Marvell is going to be able to make their chips early 2004 there's little reason that ether Amiga or PegasOS can't begin development and testing.

64-bit would be great. But, even in 32-bit I'd take a 1.6Ghz 970 over the 800Mhz G4 solutions that we currently have to choose from. Apple's running theres in 32-bit with Jaguar. Some sites say Panther will be 64bit but most say it won't so we'll see in Dec. once that ships. (Sad that Apple advertises a 64-bit desktop then makes you use it in 32-bit mode anyway.)

------
And the reason why the G5 Mac is so hard to get is that some University in the USA has ordered a whole bunch (>1000) for a GRID of Macs to use it as a super computer.
------
I don't know about that it seems that the 1.6Ghz chips are easier to get then the 2.0Ghz chips. What I've read is the problem is more likely related to the factory ramping up as they're supposedly not close to full production on the CPU yet.


------
Apple prefers to sell Mac's to Universities/Colleges/Schools, because when students get used to Macs during their study, they probably will buy a Mac when they get to work after their study.
------
That's historically been the case. Apple is still big into selling to schools. However, I think after 20+ years of using this logic as a way to sell computers Apple understands that they need other methods. Also, Apple appears to be swinging other products such as music and video applications which may or may not rely upon the Mac, such as the iPOD. Some analysits are predicting that the 80-90% of earnings generated from the Mac will dwindle down to 50% of total earnings within the next 7 years.

------
But G5 on Amiga/PEg.... dream on... dream on...
------
Yup. That's what most posts are about dreaming about the day when the Amiga or PegasOS system will be able to roll enough volume to be able to get back to the bleeding edge of technology and be a driving force yet again.
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 36 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 16-Sep-2003 12:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Amon_Re):
> Nice? Yes, feasable on the short turn? No

Nice, feasible, and absolutely essential.

> The more hardware you support the bigger the logistics that come behind it.

Of course. That goes without saying. You also get a better product and a bigger market.

> Imagine it, instead of supporting 1 or 2 hardware configs you would suddenly
> need to support other systems, ...

Yes? It's a necessity, even AInc has understood that (after all, they pretend that more people than Eyetech could be interested in their licensing), even if they have screwed up any chance of that happening. One of the things they apparently have not understood (or more likely don't give a **** about) is that restricting availablility of the SUPPORTED hardware is not such a fantastic idea when you're trying to sell software and have no hardware of your own, nor control over any hardware product.

And why "suddenly"? I think you make it sound as if a mystical force would enslave and hypnotize developers to churn out drivers for every imaginable hardware, relevant or not, if only AIncs harebrained compulsory trademark licensing would be dropped.

Also, exactly what IS the number of drivers that supposedly would NOT need to be written and just HOW MUCH EASIER are the drivers written, if the OS you're developing is only allowed to run on a piece of hardware relabelled to "AmigaOne" and only sold via one distributor, than if it also is allowed to run on THE EXACT SAME hardware called "Teron"?
The same questions naturally apply to a hypothetically licensed "AmigaTwo G5" vs. the EXACT SAME hardware when it's not relabelled and cut off from the normal market, but simply called "PowerMac G5".

Same thing with a hypothetically licensed "AmigaThree" vs. an unlicensed "Pegasos III", and so on with whatever other hardware. For each of these product pairs (restricted vs. normal), it'd be the the SAME hardware, the SAME drivers needed, only different TRADEMARKS.

There are no more Amigas, and drivers still need to be written regardless of whom we OS customers are allowed to buy our hardware from, and regardless of what extra trademarks that a restricted dealership would choose to apply to it.

> This might be feasable in larger markets, but at the short turn i'd guess it
> would be too expensive.

The problem is that there can be no larger market if the very *possibility* of ever seeing a larger market is actively removed.

Who said that AmigaOS 4.0.0 must run on this and that and that and that hardware at the date of release? Not me.

Compatibility is not as much the issue here as market restrictions on hardware are - i.e. a market and products that have nothing whatsoever to do with AInc. Today, with AInc's compulsory trademark licensing on other people's hardware, technical issues like compatibility are pointless to even discuss, unless a licensee would magically appear for whatever hardware we'd be talking about. No AInc trademark license, no development. Technical issues and commercial viability are not allowed to even enter the equation when developers ask themselves "should we write drivers for AmigaOS?" We have no option but to hope for someone to pretend that a piece of hardware is "an Amiga", or we won't ever get to buy AmigaOS for it.
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 37 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Sep-2003 13:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Seehund):
Gawd, who rattled his cage, come on own up!
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 38 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 17-Sep-2003 05:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Seehund):
So where excactly are you buying that Teron?
Marvell announce PowerPC 970 System Controllers : Comment 39 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 17-Sep-2003 21:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (EmGee):
>When the G5 (if ever!) comes available for an AmigaX computer or Pegasos,>Apple is already at G7 or so. Amiga and Pegasos only get left overs ! Pegasos did have the newest G4 generation before Apple. >And the reason why the G5 Mac is so hard to get is that some University in>the USA has ordered a whole bunch (>1000) for a GRID of Macs to use it as a>super computer. You are a funny guy! Do you want to tell us 1000 machines pose serious shipmentproblems to Apple?
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