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[Rant] 2oo4 is starting to look goodANN.lu
Posted on 26-Oct-2003 09:18 GMT by Hagge66 comments
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Will 2004 be the return of Amiga? It all looks quite intresting really. Press more ;) To begin with there are two companies out there who actually seem to be able to deliver, this have not happened for over 10 years for any single company so only that is impressive. Would be great if they didn't compete and instead corporated thought.

Anyway, first we have Genesi which has already released both the computer and the os, they attract new developers and other oses aswell which gives the platform added value, the Pegasos2 price is quite ok, the hardware is good enough and the upgrade options from Pegasos to Pegasos2 is a nice move against their users. MorphOS seems to develop well, and in the very short feature the computers will probably run Linux, OpenBSD, OpenBEOS, QNX, AROS and maybe even more OSes. The only trouble as I see it is that there are still quite little documentation, and more of that kind would be good for helping users who want to develop for the os or attract new developers.

Secondly we have Amiga Inc, the AmigaOnes have been delivered since long, thought a bit expensive imho. Hopefully the mini-itx AmigaOne will be cheaper and the board might attract people from outside which want a PPC cpu instead of Via. I think Amiga Inc and Eyetech would benefit in this if they attracted other than Amiga-users aswell.
Hyperion seems to have done a great job with AmigaOS4, it's not like the AmigaOS3.5 and 3.9 was (to me it always seemed like the regular AmigaOS 3.1 with a bunch of included freeware patches), they have managed to improve AmigaOS in many areas, the new GUI looks awesome and more modern than the old one. Thought I haven't seen how it runs on PPC since the first tests it seems like they are moving it over at a fast rate and we have seen various Amiga-apps actually running and working on it. Hopefully we can finally have see a release in the not to distant future of the first real new AmigaOS for over 10 years. I've heard Hyperion are writing some kind of reference manual for it aswell which is great. The only suggestions here is to try to make the AmigaOne boards a little more affordable and also get the AmigaOS4 to run on the pegasos to gain more users and therefor more applications and publicity.

Then we have AROS, I don't know which current state they would put themself in, something like the OpenBEOS teams roadmap/timeline/whatever would be appreciated. Anyway as I've understand it the OS is quite usable now and the only problem is to get more applications since m68k applications wont run? or?

Anyway, with the possibility of growth in the Genesi camp, cheaper AmigaOnes together with a release of AmigaOS4 and even more progress from the AROS people 2004 is starting to look like a good year. Something which would be cool and might help anyone is if some company was intrested to make an IDE which can compile programs for all of the OSes, thought I don't know how big chances for that to work are. As I understand it all of the got GCC running and MUI should work on them, so why not? Since we got a small split here and the current Amiga user base is quite small something like this would be needed. An easier route would of course be to have both of the OSes running on both of the platforms, and the best solution would of course be if the companies could try to corporate and agree on similair features but i don't see that comming :/. Hopefully time will solve this issue.

Anyway great work all of you and a happy 2004 =P

2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 1 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 26-Oct-2003 08:23 GMT
Oh, and going x86/I64/Athlon64 would probably have been great since we would have cheaper hardware and anyone intrested in the OSes could just try them out on their own machines, to bad that doesn't happen due to the old "Amiga rules, PC sucks"-wars... Yes, Amiga ruled due to both better software and hardware, but now the software is still lagging behind and the hardware can't compete in price/performance and the choice of PPC only makes it even more expensive to go with anything Amiga, which is sad since it will make the chances for the platform even smaller :/
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 2 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 26-Oct-2003 08:30 GMT
2004 is looking good ?

Don't know, but just go back to Oct 2002/2001/2000,and you should find lot of posts
stating that they next year will be soooooo good with all those great products to come.

Stop living in the future, or you might miss the present ;)
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 3 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 26-Oct-2003 08:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Kronos):
True, the difference between now and then is that then it was promises, now we start to see products.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 4 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 26-Oct-2003 08:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Hagge):
Again something you will find in 2002/2001/2000-posts .......
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 5 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by happy clown on 26-Oct-2003 08:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Kronos):
Kronos, the guy feels good about the future, stop trying to spread your bad vibes on him and be a little more positive.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 6 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 26-Oct-2003 08:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (happy clown):
Nah,there would be no fun in that *g*
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 7 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Oct-2003 08:58 GMT
The place: Amiga Headquarters.

The Time: 2001 or about.

The Question: Amiga is awfully silent, nobody has heard much about the AmigaOne1200/4000, is it really on schedule and rockin? Fleecy? Have you personally seen OS4 run on the AmigaOne with your own two eyes? Seriously?

The Lie: "Yes, I have. I've seen it run"
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 8 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 26-Oct-2003 09:13 GMT
Hagge: Just drop AmigaInc out of your post and give credit of Aone+OS4
to those it belongs.. Eyetech, Hyperion and Mai.

Othervice.. I'd like it..
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 9 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 26-Oct-2003 09:48 GMT
2004 could be the beginning of a long hard slog to restore the Amiga as a commercially viable computer system.

Even if all goes well it will take at least five years to climb back to where we were in 1990. The first thing needed is a good range of development tools and up to date versions of all the current major programming languages.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 10 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Oct-2003 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Kronos):
Funny, it was exactly the same i which i would have posted ;-)
Seems we have something like a new tradition, "The next year will be the comeback for Amiga" ;-)
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 11 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 26-Oct-2003 10:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Don Cox):
Mr Don Cox wrote:

>2004 could be the beginning of a long hard slog
>to restore the Amiga as a commercially viable computer system.

Yes, you're right man.

>Even if all goes well it will take at least five years
>to climb back to where we were in 1990.

To climb back where we were in 1985... ;)

Unfortunately we must gain back:

- respect from users and market;

- interest from media and investors
(and make them conscious that new machines are not a re-vamp of old ones)

- attract new developers

and with the upgraded software on the new machines then:

- attract current users still with old amigas,
- old users who migrated to other platforms,
- and finally new users.
Maybe starting with geek users who could be interested in this "new" platforms.

Because geek people are the persons who lead the market with their choices and push a lot of people linked to them in purchasing "cool computing platforms".

Well, the strategy of Genesi which is infact interested in trasforming Pegasos to became "The geek computer platform of reference" is then (now that is unveiled) more plain and clear...

...And IMHO a good move.
Not matter if you geek user decide to use Linux or MorphOS or QNX, or BeOS. But the important is that you choose to purchase a Pegasos to let it run.

>The first thing needed is a good range of development tools
>and up to date versions of all the current major programming languages.

I agree.

But most important is now to made a list of the still existing software and divide it into two branches (or almost three).

-Software still useful to productivity.
-Software which needs upgrades to bcome productive again.
(and in this second list I want to mention Browsers Software. To issue back good browser software we need compact and affordable developing teams, and maybe motivated with proper BOOTY collected by the hardware houses by the users. Booty is needed until a market will rise up again.)

And the third ipothetical branch involves new existing software.

This software is available only by hobbist developing.
The programmers could be well respected professionals, and the code plain good, but this software is still for hobbist use only.
(and I mean software such as Jabberwocky, AminetRadio,[ ***even P2P software ;^) *** ], etc.
We need this software in a more powerful incarnation, well made, with good documentation and support, and not "one-man project" only.)

I hope I was clear despite my bad english construction of the statements.

Ciao,

Raffaele
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 12 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 26-Oct-2003 10:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Raffaele):
"This software is available only by hobbist developing.
The programmers could be well respected professionals, and the code plain good, but this software is still for hobbist use only.
(and I mean software such as Jabberwocky, AminetRadio,[ ***even P2P software ;^) *** ], etc.
We need this software in a more powerful incarnation, well made, with good documentation and support, and not "one-man project" only.)"

I don't think we need to be too pessimistic about software written by a one or two person team. It might take a little longer but it can be of a very high standard.

And the vast majority of users of programs such as Photoshop on other platforms are non-professionals. The main thing that makes a program suitable for "professional" use is stability. The second thing is a willingness of the programmer(s) to listen to users' requests. The third is that everything you can do from the GUI must be also accessible to a script, so that users can add new custom features.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 13 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Jimbo on 26-Oct-2003 11:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Hagge):
They would NEVER release AOS on cheap x86 machines because Amiga companies need to screw Amiga users out of every last penny and force them to use rip off antique hardware, "my way or the highway" attitude which will loose them hell of a load of sales and they really deserve it.

There is no bright future for the Amiga at all, the only thing keeping this platform alive is people what are happy to bend over and get shafted over a name.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 14 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Alex Klauke on 26-Oct-2003 12:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (JoannaK):
> Hagge: Just drop AmigaInc out of your post and give credit of Aone+OS4
> to those it belongs.. Eyetech, Hyperion and Mai.

Yes, Joanna, Eyetech and Hyperion were a good choice by AmigaInc. to outsource
development of AmigaOne and OS4 (again, who would develope OS4 if AmigaInc. had
not bought the OS in the first place?). But still that does not take the
responsibility for the platform from AmigaInc. Both, hard- and software carry
the name they own. Credit for getting the hardware out and developing the OS
goes to Eyetech and Hyperion, however credit for involving those companies in
the first place goes to AmigaInc.

And please, Joanna, drop your b/w views, there have been failures made on every
side, if anything I would have to ignore every single company in this tiny part
of the (OS platform-) world. :-/

As good as it is that Hyperion and Eyetech are looking for new markets also, the
decision which opportunity to take is still at AmigaInc. And has to be there IMHO. In mid- to longterms I _expect_ AmigaInc. to take back the development of
the OS inhouse, and as it looks that will happen gradually (to bad you don't
read AW.net ;-).

About to believe people or not. I have MAI w/o April and the hardware is all
but slowly degrading over time, despite so. who claimed otherwise ;-). But yet I
take the Pegasos into consideration for the home server I plan to install, even
when the MicroA1 looks more tempting now :) And I give credit where its due
to the company that is developing a whole new platform with inspiration from the
Amiga (http://www.bplan-gmbh.de ;-)

The Pegasos is better for evaluating other OS's (which I do regularly), the
MicroA1 is smaller, but anyway I'm first getting a PowerBook G4 :-). But the
Amiga will be my main platform. And yes, this means AmigaOS4 ff., if I mean
MorphOS I will say 'MorphOS' (which btw. would be nice to have on the AmigaOne.
w/o reflashing the ROM please ;-) Again, honour where its due, so we have to
make the distinction.

Yes, it looks like the Amiga platform is finally moving forward again, a new
platform is evolving near by slowly getting out of the shadow. So the people
that like the Amiga way of doing things have a choice again after many years.

Anyone who says "we've been there in 2000/01/02" just is not reckognizing that
the situation has changed since then, step by step, the hardware is out
(AmigaOne, Pegasos) the OS is running on its target processor (OS4, MorphOS1.x).
So yes, 2004 could be the year all parts fit together, for the red and the blue
platform.. (otherwise I agree with Don that it'll last at least another 3-5
years that Amiga will be as strong as it once was. Peg/Morph also have a good
opportunity to grow).

Ciao, Alex
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 15 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 26-Oct-2003 12:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
"Funny, it was exactly the same i which i would have posted ;-)
Seems we have something like a new tradition, "The next year will be the comeback for Amiga" ;-)"

I'm a fan of Sporting Club Portugal, one of the three biggest football clubs of Portugal, we were 18 years without winning a championship, beside year after year we were told it would be the one, and imagine what... it come one day, and it was amazing!!!
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 16 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 26-Oct-2003 13:42 GMT
> Then we have AROS, I don't know which current state they would put themself
> in, something like the OpenBEOS teams roadmap/timeline/whatever would be
> appreciated. Anyway as I've understand it the OS is quite usable now and
> the only problem is to get more applications since m68k applications wont
> run? or?

AROS does have a working UAE. Some people want it seemless intergration, some do not. I use to be the in camp for wanting seemless, but it's gotten to the point with many Amiga apps clearly showing their age, I rather the devs focus on native replacements then seemless intergration of UAE. IMO, YMMV.

Dammy
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 17 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 26-Oct-2003 14:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Alex Klauke):
You have to love people who live in an alternate Universe. :-P
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 18 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 26-Oct-2003 14:52 GMT
2004 is looking to be a good year, things ARE fundamentally different than they were before.

We have a platform (hardware/software) in the pegasos/morphos product from Genesi, and we have half a platform (AmigaOne) with potentially the other half OS 4, coming out too.

This is the most we've had in ages, and now all the fans and developers who wanted to help, but were essentially locked out (who wanted to develop for classic knowing it was dead?)...they can now jump in and move things forward.

It will be a great year, Hagge is right. I would never have just jumped in with ill-placed good feelings and rah rah cheerleading, you all know that.

My tone has changed, because things have changed.

Now, that doesn't mean, the moon has changed into green cheese, that the egomaniacs aren't still egomaniacs, that the liars don't still tell lies, but it does mean, in this imperfect world, we are seeing progress and have good reason to hope for further changes to the good over the next year.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 19 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 26-Oct-2003 15:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (MarkTime):
WHAT? I THOUGHT THE MOON WOULD CHANGE INTO GREEN CHEESE. I NEED MY GREEN CHEESE!!! WHY AREN'T THEY CONVERTING THE MOON INTO M LOVELY GREEN CHEESE????

THIS MUST BE A CONSPIRACY FROM THE OTTER CAMP!!!!!!
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 20 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by JP on 26-Oct-2003 16:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Olegil):
Teh OTTERS! Teh OTTERS!!!! AAAARGH! They coming after me.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 21 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 26-Oct-2003 16:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (JP):
http://www.0tter.com
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 22 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by doofus on 26-Oct-2003 16:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (JP):
@Bill Hogget

I'd rather live in an alternative universe than with your grumpy outlook on life.

Stabbed any kids footballs lately?
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 23 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Pentrite on 26-Oct-2003 17:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (pixie):
F do sporting e do Amiga ao mesmo tempo?
Xia, gostas mesmo de sofrer... :-)
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 24 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by sutro on 26-Oct-2003 17:08 GMT
Not everyone needs all these fantastic programs or tremendous FPS capable CPUs and GFX cards. It's a bit ironic to suggest that wintel machines are cheap AND have great programs such as Photoshop. Unless you use pirated versions...
Amiga/Genesi need to attract the enthusiast or even retro markets first. Building micro atx boards for example is a very good step. Creating a skinnable and light OS is another.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 25 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 26-Oct-2003 17:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (doofus):
@doofus

No, malice is something you people excel at, not me.

I was referring to the poster re-writing history. For example, Amiga Inc deciding to "outsource" and "choosing" Eyetech and Hyperion. They did no such thing!

Eyetech's project evolved from their Predator expansion boards. Hyperion decided to do the OS themselves when it became clear that H&P were not doing it and Amiga Inc were prepared to look at x86 as long as someone else did the development. Amiga Inc have simply been the dog wagged by the tail. They have done whatever Eyetech and Hyperion wanted them to do because they had no choice. They could not pay anyone as is usual in "outsourcing" development, so they had to accept whatever was offered for free. MorphOs and the Pegasos only helped pile on the pressure so they could not possible say "no".

None of what is happening is as a result of Amiga Inc's foresight or decision making. They couldn't even refuse the offers because they are so deperate for money they must accept anything. The only reasons they don't accept Genesi's AmigaDE offer is because (a) there are personality issues involved and (b) they cannot hand over TAO's IP to any third parties without TAO's express premission.

As for all the optimism, it sounds to me like a bunch of people who are happy because they're drunk. Even been sober in the middle of your drunken friends?
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 26 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Oct-2003 18:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Bill Hoggett):
I enjoy being sober around my drunken or speeding or mind-blown friends. They're good for a laugh, and they know that if they get out of hand there will be someone to take away their keys / order takeaway / explain calmly that what they're seeing is a hallucination and not to be taken seriously.

Of course I also think it's pretty funny to watch all these people with their blind faith, whether they're dowsers or psychics, whether they waste their hard-earned on homeopathy or lottery tickets, and whether they pray to a non-existent God or to an all too real Fleecy Moss. If you walk around with your eyes closed and bump into a street lamp, *I* am the one you can hear laughing.

However in the morning my friends aren't drunk any more. How many of you will ever wake up from your dreams of the Amiga that never was and never will be?
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 27 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 26-Oct-2003 18:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Olegil):
Actually Olegil, the moon is being converted to green cheese, and in fact, most of the dark side of the moon has been green cheese for a few years.
However, we cannot announce it before its done.

So just to repeat, It will be done, but I haven't said that it will be done.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 28 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 26-Oct-2003 19:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (doofus):
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 22 of 27




Posted by doofus (81.77.9.110) on 26-Oct-2003 17:42:37

In Reply to Comment 20:
@Bill Hogget

I'd rather live in an alternative universe than with your grumpy outlook on life.

Stabbed any kids footballs lately?
----------------
With a handle like doofus you can expect your comments to be taken VERY seriously!

Not a grumpy outlook - a business outlook =- based upon profit and loss and a business plan.

A business with a consistant loss and $100 in the bank - is not an inviting target for VC and investors.

Simple real facts of life. MNaybe an investment in Merlancia and Amiga, Inc is right up your alley.

Put your money where your mouth is - opps - maybe not.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 29 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Jimbo on 26-Oct-2003 19:42 GMT
Amiga Inc seem to be more obsessed with stealing from Amiga users than actually running a professional buisness, the sooner they die out the better chance the Amiga has.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 30 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 26-Oct-2003 21:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Bill Hoggett):
@Bill

'sober amidst drunks'...ZING,POW....and maybe even a 'holy sarcasm batman'...it was a good line, I loved it.

But, this isn't 2001, it's different, as others said Eyetech has made arrangements to sell a PowerPC board, and Hyperion has an alpha version of OS4.
Maybe even will beta it soon.

One person said, we should give Amiga, Inc. credit for making the deals that allowed that to happen...yes we should. If they had better partners we would have had both lower priced PPC mainboards and OS 4 years ago.

It's not a good thing that it took this long, nevertheless, its coming to fruition now, and that makes things different, and then the overall market
also includes some other players, as the article mentioned, Genesi has a lower priced and complete with OS solution, and that also makes things different than 2001.

Well, maybe I'm repeating now, so..ta ta
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 31 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 26-Oct-2003 21:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (MarkTime):
@MarkTime

Well for me it doesn't look that different, simply because I have no interest in whatever it is either Eyetech/Hyperion or Genesi are peddling. Neither side has managed to convince me they are worth investing in, so I'm not about to do so.

As for Amiga Inc, like I said they went wherever the wind blew them. I'm not sure that earns them any credits. Their weakness has allowed others like H&P to screw up other projects, and you can't absolve Amiga Inc of their own part in that fiasco.

Regardless, 2004 may look more opimistic on a local scale, but when it comes to Real Life (tm) both parties still have it all to do. There's nothing to indicate the Amiga scene will be any less obscure in 2004 than it has been for years already.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 32 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 26-Oct-2003 21:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Alex Klauke):
Alex: Tese things aren't B&W, they never are .. but there are legal limits what companies are allower to do. And No praise (in AW or here) won't give Ainc pardon in front of law.

I wish they could arrange couple Mlll USD to clean up the mess they have caused (Pay depbts, old salaries, compensations to De developers etc..) and close down with what little honour there woud be left. But somehow I don't belive it'll happen.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 33 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Oct-2003 01:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (JoannaK):
2004 is going to be just like every other year, I'm sure that someone will pull funding or sue or get sued... that's life when you're at the bottom of the foodchain.

btw Joanna, I'm sick and tired of your whining wrt amiga inc. We all know you hate these guys, so just drop it OK? it might be remotely interesting if they were even remotely important, but constantly repeating that a loser is in fact a loser just gets old. Do you like kicking the homeless or smth?
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 34 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Oct-2003 01:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Pentrite):
"F do sporting e do Amiga ao mesmo tempo?
Xia, gostas mesmo de sofrer... :-)"

;))
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 35 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by - on 27-Oct-2003 01:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
"Do you like kicking the homeless"


They are not homeless, (just officeless) Rich showed us that.
I hope the optimism is justified.

Stew
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 36 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 27-Oct-2003 02:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (sutro):
>Unless you use pirated versions...

Note the following;
1. There are cheaper Photoshop plug-in compatible paint programs e.g. Paint Shop Pro V8.
2. Photoshop Elements is usually bundled with several photo related HW products. Ulead products (e.g. Video Studio 7) usually is bundled with HW vendors e.g. Leadtek.
3. Theres the academic priced Wintel software.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 37 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Vexar on 27-Oct-2003 03:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (pixie):
Okay, I can accept folks being rah-rah regarding the success of Genesi, Hyperion, Eyetech, and all, but likening them to a Soccer team? Come on, it's not like the world of computing runs like a sporting event. For one, you need more than a soccer-team squad worth of people to make a dent in this industry of consumer electronics. For two, it's not like if you show up you always have an even chance at winning.

Nothing short of an earth-shattering Video Toaster paradigm shift (enter Copernicus, blah-blah jazz-talk) is going to ressurect the World of Amiga to its former glory. You can chat up all the innovations of an operating system, but realistically, unless it replaces multiple appliances, costs half as much as an equally-performing product, or whitens teeth (insert marketing promise here), the masses will have no reason to look to the side.

Quite frankly, I'd love to see the Amiga reborn. The mini-ITX may be the best thing Eyetech has done for the Amiga. I got a good lesson this morning on faith being a matter of what you say, as a reflection of what you believe.

-- Vexar, the original (all others are fake)
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 38 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 27-Oct-2003 06:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (-):
Posted by - (67.10.117.223) on 27-Oct-2003 02:56:46

In Reply to Comment 33:
"Do you like kicking the homeless"


They are not homeless, (just officeless) Rich showed us that.
I hope the optimism is justified.

Stew
--------------
I was with my friend protesting the War yesterday - I gave a $5 to a homeless guy who asked me for change.

There but for the Grace of God go I.

As far as Amiga Inc goes - what goes around comes around. They mae their bed - let them lie in it.

That means the management - not the COMPANY.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 39 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 27-Oct-2003 06:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (MarkTime):
Ah, thank goodness.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 40 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 27-Oct-2003 06:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Rich Woods):
Oooh, you're such a great person.

NOT. You shouldn't have tried to brag about giving money to homeless people, it kinda ruins the point. "look at me, everyone. I'm so kind and selfless!!!". doesn't work. :-(

I would rather give money to people helping homeless people than the homeless people themselves, any day. Because then there's at least a small chance that the money will be spent on food/clothing/boarding etc.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 41 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 27-Oct-2003 06:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Bill Hoggett):
"I was referring to the poster re-writing history. For example, Amiga Inc deciding to "outsource" and "choosing" Eyetech and Hyperion. They did no such thing!

Eyetech's project evolved from their Predator expansion boards. Hyperion decided to do the OS themselves when it became clear that H&P were not doing it and Amiga Inc were prepared to look at x86 as long as someone else did the development. Amiga Inc have simply been the dog wagged by the tail. They have done whatever Eyetech and Hyperion wanted them to do because they had no choice. They could not pay anyone as is usual in "outsourcing" development, so they had to accept whatever was offered for free. MorphOs and the Pegasos only helped pile on the pressure so they could not possible say "no"."

I think this is basically correct, but they could have said "No, we will only do the DE." It is to fleecy's credit that he was prepared to go along with the plan, and not be obstructive.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 42 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Oct-2003 07:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Olegil):
Don't forget, he's a humanitarian too, he was protesting the war. WHAT WAR?!? if he's referring to the mess in the Gulf, that's been officially over for months. I guess he was too busy stalking people to read the news.

What a great human being, taking time off his busy stalking schedule and spearing campaign to give $5 to the homeless and protest the war.

Sorry Rich, you're not fooling anyone. You have your reasons for wishing the entire staff of AInc were in jail, but it's not exactly "for the greater good". You remind me of those crooked politicians who do all their double-dealings "for the children". Play it straight, don't be a hypocryte.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 43 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 27-Oct-2003 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Don Cox):
@Don

> I think this is basically correct, but they could have said "No, we will
> only do the DE." It is to fleecy's credit that he was prepared to go along
> with the plan, and not be obstructive.

Except that they had already promised Eyetech that they would deliver OS4 for them - even though they expected H&P to be the ones who developed it. I don't know if there were any contracts involved, but I suspect the they were under some sort of obligation to deliver once Eyetech delivered the hardware.

You forget that Amiga Inc were already broke - though perhaps not as much in debt - at the time. They really didn't have much choice but to go along with it, specially after they were ...ummm... persuaded... to give up on publishing Amithlon. The you need to consider the "special" relationship between Ben Hermans and Amiga as well. I don't think Fleecy ever had the realistic option of saying "no".
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 44 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Rassilon AKA Lewis Brunton on 27-Oct-2003 11:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Bill Hoggett):
I think everyone should take a step back and try to ignore the personalities involved and just think of the products (those that are released now/ are going to be released in the near future).

If you take that stance then 2004 looks to be the most prosperous year for Amiga's/Amiga likes since 1994!
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 45 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 27-Oct-2003 15:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Rassilon AKA Lewis Brunton):
"I think everyone should take a step back and try to ignore the personalities involved and just think of the products"

People are much more interesting than computers.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 46 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Rassilon AKA Lewis Brunton on 27-Oct-2003 15:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Don Cox):
Don Wrote:
"People are much more interesting than computers."

Yes but I can't run Audio Evolution 4 on people can I!!! ;o)
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 47 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 27-Oct-2003 16:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Don Cox):
> People are much more interesting than computers.

Almost agree with you on this one Don, just add the word "the" between the last two words and you would have it perfectly. ;)

Dammy
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 48 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Oct-2003 16:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Don Cox):
Tell me I'm wrong, but it hasn't been computers that have kept the amiga in the dark ages since 1994 - people have. Greedy VPs like Mehdi Ali, liars like little Ryan, and dueling morons like the two Bills (honestly, who's the bigger moron: the guy who's running a company with $100 in his piggybank or the guy spending $1000s on trying to take it away from him?)

2004 is going to be more entertainment for those of us realistic enough to enjoy it. You want expensive, underpowered innovation, get a Mac. You want raw cpu horsepower with no style, get an AMD beige box. There's nothing else, don't waste your time looking. Pass the popcorn, it's going to be a double-feature.
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 49 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 27-Oct-2003 16:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous):
Make mine kettle corn, please. ;)

Dammy
2oo4 is starting to look good : Comment 50 of 66ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 27-Oct-2003 17:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous):
You have not read the docs then, have you. Nobody is trying to take anything away from anyone.
Anonymous, there are 66 items in your selection [1 - 50] [51 - 66]
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