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[Unmoderated] censorship on ANN.LUANN.lu
Posted on 27-Oct-2003 21:33 GMT by Anonymous54 comments
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For being called a site of 'news, rumours, comments' you censor all the rumours! why do you do this?
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 1 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by krize on 27-Oct-2003 20:38 GMT
They dont, plz delete this stupid post :)

If you read Ann.lu you know that they dont delete rumours, but they (thank god) delete the very stupid ones !!
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 2 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Piru on 27-Oct-2003 20:51 GMT
Rumours need some backing up. Link to a source or other sort of evidence. Also, use your name (or recognized nickname) when posting.

That should help.

Now, could you please stop this idiotic posting, it has been going on for weeks, if not months.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 3 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Jason on 27-Oct-2003 21:20 GMT
The only censorship site in Amigaland is A*********d.net.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 4 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Oct-2003 21:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Jason):
no, the only censorship here in amigaland is mo*****-***s.de
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 5 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by EyeAm on 27-Oct-2003 21:36 GMT
ANN should implement something like OSNews.com has, where some posts deemed offensive could get 'moderated down' to a sublevel (still accessible to the public, still readable, if people want to go and read the offensive material). There could be an easy admin-only button or link on each of the posts, where the moderator or admin could 'flush' the post to that sublevel. Just a simple move; maybe with an automatic replacement of 'this post has been removed...' like is appearing sometimes already.

A feature to consider implementing, at any rate.

--EyeAm
http://s87767106.onlinehome.us
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 6 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 27-Oct-2003 22:00 GMT
> you censor all the rumours! why do you do this?

What rumor?
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 7 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 27-Oct-2003 22:02 GMT
Someone needs to learn the difference between a "rumour" and a "lie"...
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 8 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Dirty Jones on 27-Oct-2003 22:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Darrin):
Someone needs to learn the difference between "rumor" and "rumour". Save bytes, go for the simplified spelling scheme! US English woes!
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 9 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by EyeAm on 27-Oct-2003 22:40 GMT
What was the rumor, anyway? I wanna see :-)

--EyeAm
http://s87767106.onlinehome.us
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 10 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 28-Oct-2003 00:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (T_Bone):
> What rumor?

It seems like a certain "Anonymous" (who can be reached at the e-mail address mailto:) the last few weeks has insisted on misunderstanding one of the purposes of ANN. He's not quite understood that the site is meant to *report* rumours, not *create* them (out of thin air).

Basically, he/she/the perl script has been posting "did you know Amiga Inc has been bought by Mai Logic?" over and over again. No source. No reasoning why he's even came up with this speculation. No nothing.

About as credible, useful and substantial as an "ask Fleecy session".

/ignore
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 11 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by IamCleverToo on 28-Oct-2003 00:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
@Anonymous (62.101.126.193)

> no, the only censorship here in amigaland is mo*****-***s.de

This is getting tiresome Fleecy. I have been tracking your anonymous posts here on ann.lu for a while now and I am very disapointed with you. A CTO of a company should behave himself muchbetter.

What are you so afraid of that you need to post anonymously?

You might be sitting there at your workstation laughing your ass off right now. But YOUR actions here right now prove to the world that Amiga will fail.

No one wants to be a part of AmigaInc anymore. Maybe a few misguided name followers.

you have been given opportunity after opportunity to turn things around, but you refuse to listen to counsel. It always has to be YOUR WAY. But 'your way' has gotten your company into this mess in the first place.

So yes fleecy, I'm blaming you and all your anonymous friends for the downfall of Amiga.

BYE BYE AMIGA MY FRIEND!!!!
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 12 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by IamCleverToo on 28-Oct-2003 00:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (EyeAm):
The rumour: a certain amigaone reseller taking over the CEO position of AmigaInc.

I like the rumour about Mai Logic taking over AmigaInc better. There are still more Mai rumours to come, you wait and see.

And a lot of these rumours will prove to be true, just watch! :-)
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 13 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by IamCleverToo on 28-Oct-2003 00:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Piru):
Master illusionist Fleecy knows the way! Put another shrimp on the barbi for Fleecy, cause he's coming to the land down under to show you what IT all about!
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 14 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 28-Oct-2003 01:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (IamCleverToo):
>>@Anonymous (62.101.126.193)
>> no, the only censorship here in amigaland is mo*****-***s.de
>This is getting tiresome Fleecy.

He is not Fleecy. His IP is from the italian provider Fastweb

Anyway I probably know him.
Is is one of those little sad Amiga Inc leeeeeeeeeeeeeechers
who spend their lives flaming here and there and attacking
evrtything isn't supported by Amiga Inc.

That's even worse if you think that in future Amiga users will
be only people like these ones.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 15 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 28-Oct-2003 01:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (IamCleverToo):
Iamparnoidtoo said:

>I have been tracking your anonymous posts here on ann.lu for a while now and I am very disapointed with you

Translates to:

"Oh no!!! There's Fleecy!!! And over there!!! And there too!!! Oh no, he's in my sock draw!!! And he under my bed!!! Arrggghhhh, there's loads of Fleecies crawling all over me!!! Get them off me!!! Get them off me!!! Where's my pills???!!!"

So, how long have you been seeing imaginary Fleecies? When did it start? And why are you obsessed with a MAN???

Something you want to tell us?
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 16 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 01:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Darrin):
Then on the other hand you have Amiga Inc denying people who really DO exist and were present at trade shows.

Garry Hare was at the show, and handing out cards. Anyone claiming differently is a goddamned liar. Why they are lying is a mystery, but the fact remains, they are lying.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 17 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 28-Oct-2003 01:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
>Garry Hare was at the show, and handing out cards

Ask to Ben what he has to say about Gary and what he SAID
about him.

Maybe at a point Gary understood in what sad situation Amiga was/is,
but... well, ask to Mr. Hermans. ;-)
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 18 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 28-Oct-2003 02:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Gabriele Favrin):
Maybe that's why they're denying it! :D
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 19 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 02:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Gabriele Favrin):
..or ask Cheryl. Cheryl has a GH-CEO card too.

FLEECY IS A LIAR!

Cheryl Downing
Downing & Associates
& NBMA Media Relations Director
408-257-1049
http://www.nbma.com
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 20 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by EyeAm on 28-Oct-2003 03:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Darrin):
>"Oh no!!! There's Fleecy!!! And over there!!! And there too!!! Oh no, he's
>in my sock draw!!! And he under my bed!!! Arrggghhhh, there's loads of
>Fleecies crawling all over me!!! Get them off me!!! Get them off me!!!
>Where's my pills???!!!"

(spews Pepsi all over the monitor) *cough* HAHAHAHA!!! :D

Oh, my side hurts now.

--EyeAm
http://s87767106.onlinehome.us
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 21 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by EyeAm on 28-Oct-2003 03:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
>Garry Hare was at the show, and handing out cards. Anyone claiming
>differently is a goddamned liar. Why they are lying is a mystery, but
>the fact remains, they are lying.

I'm sure there is a logical reason for that. He probably just printed up cards himself and passed them out, believing he was imminently going to be the next Amiga Prez; and then it probably just fell through. Perhaps someone at Amiga had him thinking he was (maybe he was going to be), and then that someone got in trouble for that, OR they changed their minds before deciding to. Who knows (cares?). If it is something like this, it seems reasonable to me that a guy would be so excited as to print up cards with his name on it (I doubt Amiga, Inc. would have printed them up).

--EyeAm
http://s87767106.onlinehome.us
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 22 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 03:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (EyeAm):
That's highly unlikely that someone as famous as Garry Hare would "print up" cards of his own saying he is the CEO of Amiga Inc.

Anyway, Alan from Eyetech has commented on Garry Hare on Moobunny, and apparently Hyperion knew about him too. If Garry Hare just decided to abandon his own company, and start running around impersonating Amiga's CEO, then why have Amiga's business partners dealt with him (Both Alan and Ben, apparently). Also didn't Tronman (can't remember his name, the ex-Amiga employee) say that Bill Mcewen mentioned Garry Hare was the CEO in court?

The logical explanation is (and those in the know can confirm this) Amiga Inc is lying to avoid being embarassed about what Garry Hare thinks of those in charge of Amiga Inc, and what he's said about them to others and investors.

Garry Hare is disgusted with Amiga Inc and they're childish behavior. He was going to step on, do some promotion, and sell the idea to investors. Amiga Inc fumbled around and disgusted him into leaving Amiga to deal with it's own mess.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 23 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 03:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
Can't that be said of all Amiga New Portals?
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 24 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 03:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (EyeAm):
Eyeam, Amiga Inc pissed Garry Hare off the same way they pissed you off last year. Garry Hare was CEO. He left, he made the choice to leave, he wasn't made to leave, and nothing fell through. Remember that 'round of funding' Amiga was waiting for? It was Garry's job to get it, but he said "to hell with this" and decided Amiga didn't want to do business with anyone, so he didn't want to risk his reputation with the investors. Would you? Seriously? Who's going to invest in a company that say's "no" to every costomer that wants to buy their product? Amiga has only signed ONE AmigaDE contract, and they have to be sued just to honor it! A company that says "no" to every costomer that's interested in their new product, is not a good investment.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 25 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 28-Oct-2003 05:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (IamCleverToo):
"The rumour: a certain amigaone reseller taking over the CEO position of AmigaInc."

Go gunne go ;D
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 26 of 54ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 14 (Gabriele Favrin):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: insult
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 27 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 28-Oct-2003 08:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Jason):
There's censorship in every site which has moderation, it's their nature
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 28 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 28-Oct-2003 08:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Anonymous):
"Eyeam, Amiga Inc pissed Garry Hare off the same way they pissed you off last year. Garry Hare was CEO. He left, he made the choice to leave, he wasn't made to leave, and nothing fell through. Remember that 'round of funding' Amiga was waiting for? It was Garry's job to get it, but he said "to hell with this" and decided Amiga didn't want to do business with anyone, so he didn't want to risk his reputation with the investors. Would you? Seriously? Who's going to invest in a company that say's "no" to every costomer that wants to buy their product? Amiga has only signed ONE AmigaDE contract, and they have to be sued just to honor it! A company that says "no" to every costomer that's interested in their new product, is not a good investment. "

Do you have any insider knolwedge? It seems that you're mixing your thoughs as if they were the holly Truth. This history already stink, but there's always someone who likes to dig in to the mud
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 29 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by EyeAm on 28-Oct-2003 08:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Anonymous):
>In Reply to Comment 21:
>Eyeam, Amiga Inc pissed Garry Hare off the same way they pissed you off
>last year. Garry Hare was CEO. He left, he made the choice to leave, he
>wasn't made to leave, and nothing fell through. Remember that 'round of
>funding' Amiga was waiting for? It was Garry's job to get it, but he said
>"to hell with this" and decided Amiga didn't want to do business with

I have no idea whether he left for the same reason (or 'way', as you say) as I got ticked at them. Several specific things have just really irked me over the years with the various Amiga incarnations:

1. The prices of the hardware and such being way too high for end-users. (custom stuff helped do this--but at the same time, I do understand custom stuff also helped make Amiga what it was/is).
2. Lack of marketing what they had.
3. The beating-around-the-bush dance done with whether or not Amiga OS would or would not be on x86/64 architecture (i.e., it isn't, it is, it never was going to be, it's going to be and we always told you that, no we never said that you got it wrong)
4. The absolute LIE(s) of the weekend of March 30th, 31st, and April 1st, 2001. This irritated me the most of anything, because what it was was this: After having written over 128 companies (as a fan of Amiga OS) to get them partners or see if people were interested in all these things being talked about, and how that weekend was built up to be THE moment when all the stuff would be unveiled and partners announced, it came down to only Sharp (a good company, mind you) but nothing much else. Certainly not what I was led to believe. And they can't exactly *ever* get mad at me for that, because an owner of Amiga, Inc. gave me a letter to "use any way" I wished--detailing plans. Of course, the letter got reworked and sent to all those potential partners. (emphasis on potential partners, and what that could mean for Amiga). IF they weren't ready, I should not have been given that, or told what I was. IF the info was wrong, they screwed themselves. I don't think it was, though; I think a lot of things fell through, and the community continued to fracture. I also have a high suspicion now that some sabotage (not on the part of Amiga) went on.
5. General unwillingness to truly listen and think about opportunities or potential money-making ideas. (this gets at the issue of why I could never, ever understand why PPC was chosen over x86--with the latter being the bigger market--and the route chosen being done so by a company who claimed to need money). But having said this, I also want to make it clear that it's not a 'my way or highway' kind of view that I hold. If they truly want to go a certain way, great...maybe they know something I don't, and I'll sit back and see if I'm surprised (even though I still have my opinion about the path). Of course, in light of the current realities...[fill in blank].

>anyone, so he didn't want to risk his reputation with the investors. Would
>you? Seriously?

Well, I already did that.

The thing about reputation, when it comes to things that others don't believe in, is that you follow a path regardless of what they think...if you yourself (using corporate 'you' there) believe that's the right way to go. Maybe they knew/know the way, maybe they didn't/don't. I respect them for the conviction of their beliefs. Of course, I was telling them that they were going the wrong way (mostly. I also understood about the classic PPC stuff). And, of course, everyone got their share of being attacked or dumped on by others--me, them, general supporters.

I guess it comes down to: is one going to really buy into what the others say, about being a laughing stock or idiots or fuckheads or whatever else was ever said...OR is that just going to be ignored in favor of continuing on toward success--getting back up, dusting off, and moving on to the point of death. (I often choose the latter). The former is always failure once you throw in the towel. That just reminded me of one more thing they ticked me off about before: and it was Fleecy throwing in the towel about Microsoft, saying that they couldn't win on the desktop. I say that is complete bullshit, despite 'odds'; ANYbody (MorphOS, AROS, Linux, whomever...) can make it if they really plan and do it right. So I usually shrug that off (ok, so I fight back with the opposing sentiments :) often). But the lack of conviction for an 'OS company' saying it couldn't, basically, put out a successful 'OS'...was disturbing; especially when the superficial, on the surface speeches were saying otherwise. Yes, I saw all this stuff.

I also still give them the chance. Now it *might* be that these particular humans aren't the ones to lead Amiga on, but I KNOW in my heart of hearts that it will be AMIGA that succeeds Microsoft on the world computing stage. I'm still iffy about Apple; they could rise with Amiga. The world may have two dominant ones, but I see Windows dying off.

>Who's going to invest in a company that say's "no" to every
>costomer that wants to buy their product?

You're right, you are right there. Rhetoric that speaks the truth there.

One of the things I have believed (and couldn't understand with the contrary reality) was: what is the big deal with the OS running on hardware that isn't especially given warranty for regarding the OS? I mean, if the box says this or that hardware, and someone installs it on a motherboard or something not listed--and it works on what it's installed on--why should Amiga *really* care, so long as 1) they don't have to give warranty for things other than what they specify--and disclaimers can even be popped onto the box, too, saying essentially that; and 2) they are selling the OS.

An OS box sold is an OS box sold. Money in the bank. Investors would LOVE that.

I always wondered about why a company was in business to not make money. And the questions which arose in my mind included the wondering of whether someone or some company or some license requirement or contract requirement...prevented them from doing something, and whether they could say so or not.

Benefit of the doubt, again, on my part (during the majority of the time, when I was not angry at something with them).

> Amiga has only signed ONE AmigaDE
>contract, and they have to be sued just to honor it! A company that says
>"no" to every costomer that's interested in their new product, is not a
>good investment.

Well, I understand the situation to be different than that; that the agreement gave Amiga the say-so for any other/future devices, and that it was generally understood to be these small devices, not a desktop OS. I think the court case will answer these questions, so there's really no need for me to say much about it. Everybody even within sight-range of this particular situation has his or her own ideas or opinions about it (including my 'opinion'), so for what it's worth, the flame-worthy topics just don't hold much appeal with me at this time. I've jumped in before, to such threads, but I think one of the last 300+ posts took care of settling the line in the sand, at least :)

I have been writing Amiga email again, lately. Have been emailing Dave Haynie, too. But, interestingly, the last few emails of mine weren't replied to. I think it might be due to my hobby OS, or they're just getting flooded with email, or busy, or finding Stress Tabs as they (Amiga only) talk with lawyers or, heck, who knows...getting something out the door. I can still hope.

Anyhoo, about Garry Hare. At the time that was current news, even then I didn't take too much notice of him or who he was. It seemed to be happening in the background. Almost by the time I heard Amiga *might* have a new CEO, it was over and the 'rumor' dispelled. So, as with the others that were, I shrugged and didn't bother with it.

Took until this year before I found out exactly what the big horrible thing was that was referred to as "what happened back in June". (i.e., employee left, suing for two months backpay). Granted, while such things have a bearing on stability for the company, I suppose it's not the kind of thing they put on the website, which concerns the OS and directions.

Ok, that's it. This is getting long :) For those who want an extra place to post--Amiga-friendly--I have my own message forums now called Mystic Tree (on my site). Computer-related and other topics, too. I just recently got settled into the new url after moving things.

--EyeAm
http://s87767106.onlinehome.us
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 30 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 28-Oct-2003 09:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (EyeAm):
Amiga could have been like a turbo button on people's windows desktops.

Click on it to get a super fast efficient virtual computer that helps you get things done quicker.

Eventually you get to like this and use it most of the time.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 31 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 28-Oct-2003 12:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Anonymous):
>>>Senti cocco, io non sono il leccapiedi di nessuno. Tu piuttosto quando ti rimetterai a lavorare su AWeb invece di spargere m*rda dovunque? Sei diventato pure la barzelletta di amigapage.it...

Moderators should really delete this offensive post
(that you wrote in italian to be able to break the ANN
policy regarding insults).

I understand why often italians are considered so lame:
too much of them are used to write in italian in international forums. :(

About amigapage.it, it's a nice forum where there are people
who gets messages from here, change names, translate and repost.
Someone even asked to remove a moderator because he prefers Pegasos
than AmigaOne. The message was cloned from the poor lechers
who asked Decanini to stop moderating on ANN...

You see, leechers evrywhere.

And you ask me to work on any Amiga related project?
Amiga is not a serious environment, not only due to his
managers but also due to people like you (and the mOS fanatics too).

I prefer to spend my time with serious things.
Continue playing (and offending) in your little world
Until it will collapse.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 32 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 28-Oct-2003 13:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Gabriele Favrin):
Then you need to walk away from here too Gabrielle.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 33 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 13:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Gabriele Favrin):
so, if you don't consider amiga a serious platform anymore, why are you continuing to attack the community? Why don't you get a life elsewhere?

Ah, a warning to non italian ppl reading this thread: in the italian amiga scene Gabriele Favrin is unanimously considered a TROLL (he's in everyone's killfile), LAMER (he was thrown out from the OS4 betatester team since he was unable to understand how bugzilla system works) and a person without ANY SENSE OF TOUCH. If you behaved better, maybe ppl on the NDA lists and even amiga inc big bosses would have listened you.

^PLONK!^
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 34 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 28-Oct-2003 14:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
>so, if you don't consider amiga a serious platform anymore,
>why are you continuing to attack the community? Why don't
>you get a life elsewhere?

I'm not attacking the community, i'm writing my opinion
about some people.

>Ah, a warning to non italian ppl reading this thread: in
>the italian amiga scene Gabriele Favrin is unanimously
>considered a TROLL (he's in everyone's killfile), LAMER (he

If I'm a troll explain me why I've been asked to write for
the biggest italian magazines for years and why the Amiga
section of my website is visited evryday by a lot of people
from Italy.

Maybe my only problem is with people like you,
and I'm glad to have problems with guy similar to you.

>was thrown out from the OS4 betatester team since he was
>unable to understand how bugzilla system works) and a person

The reason because I've been kicked is well know here
on ANN, but if you forgot it you can join the NUMEROUS
people who readed this text:
http://www.favrin.net/txt/varie/commenti/goodbye_os4.en.phtml

I've received a lot of supportive comments on that,
both by Amiga fanatics and people outside the community,
so probably your considerations are mostly personal.

>on the NDA lists and even amiga inc big bosses would have
>listened you.

Eh...
Some people on those NDA lists asked me if I wished to
continue reading them after the facts described on my
site, I rejected the offer both because now I spend my time with more
interesting stuff (read: PHP) and because it would be not
correct. But as you can see... the problem is mostly yours
and there are a lot of people who are a bit better in
judging what happens in the community.

I LIKE Amiga community, I don't like people like you.
Thats' the final line from me.

Now continue your flame alone. I've to complete my daily
work (real one).
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 35 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 28-Oct-2003 14:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
>^PLONK!^

As a last thing: I don't beleive in your plonk, nor in any message
from you since you can't even write a single message with your name.
I'd like to know who you are on amigapage. maybe that funny
guy who always writes that mOS is illegal and should not
be argoument of discussion on amigapage. Even Marco has enough
of you.

Go on now, plonk me (?) then change your nick and write other
comments.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 36 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 14:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
i hope other anti-amiga users get kicked out from os4 beta mailing list as soon as possible.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 37 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 28-Oct-2003 14:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Anonymous):
>i hope other anti-amiga users get kicked out from os4 beta mailing list as soon as possible.

Just for curiosity, what does mean for you to be 'anti Amiga'?
Does it mean criticize false promises, lack of results, personal and public
attacks from Amiga Inc employers?

And who is an 'pro amiga' user? Someone who always believe in what
Amiga Inc does/promises/announces while offending all the others?

Then a lot of people I know should be kicked, but they will not ;-)
Sorry, you'll have to buy a product tested by 'not pure people' ;-)

Right now I don't see much differences between the current
Amiga world and Microsoft one. Amiga becamed what we hated
in MS yesterday and some Amiga users aren't so much
different than guys who eg. attacks Linux, open source and
so on.

I mostly see flames in any Amiga related forum.
Most of the people who supported Amiga in the past now have
left that world disgusted, more by 'people' than by lack of products.

Ask yourself why.

Some years ago a friend of me (a well known Amiga developers
who from years offers me a shell to run bots for italian
Amiga channel on his server) explained me this situation and
why many people were so deluded. NOw I understand him, now
that I'm one of those (and if you read my text, I was going
to leave anyway).

The dream is over and flamers are helping old Amiga
supporters to leave.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 38 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 14:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Gabriele Favrin):
you know better than me that MOS is illegal because petro gave Schmidt access to the source code without any authorization from the legal owner.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 39 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 15:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Gabriele Favrin):
"Just for curiosity, what does mean for you to be 'anti Amiga'?"

anti amiga = attacks against amiga companies. (amiga inc, elbox, titan, epic, pagan games, eyetech, pahse5/dce, individual computers etc.)

"Does it mean criticize false promises, lack of results, personal and public
attacks from Amiga Inc employers?"

i agree amiga inc employers overreact sometimes but you must understand they (hmetal work example) work under heavy pressure without payment. i dont know what those lies are but if a lie helps amiga it is better.

"Most of the people who supported Amiga in the past now have
left that world disgusted, more by 'people' than by lack of products.

Ask yourself why."

because they were not true believers. we must stay strong with our faith. amiga konquers the world with amiga xe.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 40 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 28-Oct-2003 15:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Anonymous):
>you know better than me that MOS is illegal because petro gave Schmidt access to the source code without any authorization from the legal owner.

Is your nick on amigapage.it "amighista", isn't it?
He is the onbly one who always cries about this and asks
anyone who like mOS to leave the forum...

(btw, for italian users: the guy who writes on amigapage
with that nick is NOT the good polite guy who uses the same
nick on irc!)
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 41 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 15:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Gabriele Favrin):
For your information only, there are also OTHER guys who states like me that MOS is illegal.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 42 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 28-Oct-2003 15:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Anonymous):
> if a lie helps amiga it is better.

Disgusting.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 43 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 15:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Anonymous):
>>"Just for curiosity, what does mean for you to be 'anti Amiga'?"

>anti amiga = attacks against amiga companies. (amiga inc, elbox, titan, epic,
>pagan games, eyetech, pahse5/dce, individual computers etc.)

I would like to add that this is usual G. Fav. way of dealing with amiga community. I, for myself, stated mere facts (like peg2 hardware "defects", MOS illegality, lack of some important apps for OS4).

>>"Does it mean criticize false promises, lack of results, personal and public
>>attacks from Amiga Inc employers?"

>i agree amiga inc employers overreact sometimes but you must understand they
>(hmetal work example) work under heavy pressure without payment. i dont know
>what those lies are but if a lie helps amiga it is better.

Favrin, you must understand that behind the title "amiga employee" there are also HUMAN BEING with everyday's life pressures (without adding the payments question). To demostrate that, you should re read all your posting on usenet: you lack any simpathy for the people as human beings. what a selfish position.

>>"Most of the people who supported Amiga in the past now have
>>left that world disgusted, more by 'people' than by lack of products.
>>Ask yourself why."

>because they were not true believers. we must stay strong with our faith. amiga >konquers the world with amiga xe.

Simply because those 'people' didn't understand anything about business and economics in general. :-) It's not a matter of faith, but simply an economical one: some of the people will come back to A1/OS4 (ever favrin and some of the genesi supporters!) again. :-)
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 44 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 16:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Gabriele Favrin):
>Is your nick on amigapage.it "amighista", isn't it?
>He is the onbly one who always cries about this and asks
>anyone who like mOS to leave the forum...

First, I never said to anyone to leave a forum that isn't mine. I
simply express my opinion. Am I free or not to think that "mos is illegal, until further evidence"?

Second, you are likely to mistake me with JohnOne (i'm very curious
to see a discussion between the both of you). He's the overreacting guy
of amigapage. Marco was tired about him using bad words, not me.

Third, if there are things that i don't like these are: 1) illegal business pratcises; 2) the "crying and berserking attitude" of people like you that feel themselves "betrayed" by Amiga. 3) People bashing OS4 and A1 without any good reason to do that, other than the "special agreement" signed with genesi and the "brain washing" done on some pro MOS mailing lists.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 45 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 28-Oct-2003 16:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Anonymous):
> Am I free or not to think that "mos is illegal, until further evidence"?

No.

"Illegal" is a legal term, not an opinion. It's either illegal or it isn't, there's no opinion involved in legal matters.

You are "free" to have an opinion that MOS is derived from Amiga source, THAT would be an opinion (weather or not that's true)
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 46 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 28-Oct-2003 16:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
>To demostrate that, you should re read all your posting on usenet: you lack any simpathy for the people as human beings. what a selfish position.

Hmmm...
I know some people who may not agree with you about me,
but again, if your llve is restricted to Amiga forum,
Usenet ng and so on maybe you may not be the best one to judge people.

It's your problem, Amiga will die thanks to people like YOU while
the real world goes on with real life and more serious stuff.

I'm not here to defend myself from an anonymous troll/amiga inc leecher:
I'm here to trying to discuss the Amiga community state with
ppl whoi wants to discuss. If you can't (btw, plonk me please)
feel free to fire your offensive posts (you have been moderated,
didn't you noticed?). Who I am and what I do is something that anyone
can knowq by simply reading my web site. I don't hide. Sad you do.
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 47 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 16:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Gabriele Favrin):
>Hmmm...
>I know some people who may not agree with you about me,
>but again, if your llve is restricted to Amiga forum,
>Usenet ng and so on maybe you may not be the best one to judge people.

Are you sure? You don't know me, so please... :-)


>It's your problem, Amiga will die thanks to people like YOU while
>the real world goes on with real life and more serious stuff.

I don't think so. If you state that "real world goes on with real life and more serious stuff" why you are here?

>I'm not here to defend myself from an anonymous troll/amiga inc leecher:

I've the right to my anonymate, pal.

>I'm here to trying to discuss the Amiga community state with
>ppl whoi wants to discuss.

No comment. Just wait for OS4/A1. :-)

>If you can't (btw, plonk me please)
>feel free to fire your offensive posts (you have been moderated,
>didn't you noticed?).

Moderated? It's not a problem, the moderator has the right to do that.
By the way, I re read your "open letter" to the amiga community. You
were thrown out by bouma & co.? That was your fault, due to your lack of "diplomacy" and "patience". :-)

>Who I am and what I do is something that anyone
>can knowq by simply reading my web site. I don't hide. Sad you do.

That's not sad for me. As I said before, I've all the rights to my anonymate, as you have all the rights in this world to put that "x-no-archive" header in usenet posting. Please do not use anymore the old italian tactic to "win" any "lost discussion" (i.e.: no arguments in your favour) by bashing people using any information available about them (even private ones!) to make them appear not better than you in others' eyes. :-)
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 48 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 16:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (T_Bone):
ok, I'll accept your correction, since it's more POLITE and FORMALLY CORRECT than others' people. So, my opinion is this: "IF MOS is derived from Amiga source AND there was no authorization by the legal owner, THEN it's illegal". :-)
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 49 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Oct-2003 17:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (T_Bone):
well, and what about genesi lies? do they helps peg and mos in their supporters view? That's disgusting, too. :-(
censorship on ANN.LU : Comment 50 of 54ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 28-Oct-2003 17:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Anonymous):
>That's not sad for me. As I said before, I've all the rights
>to my anonymate, as you have all the rights in this world to
>put that "x-no-archive" header in usenet posting. P

As many people, I don't want my posts archived by Google
News to reduce spam. This thing has been recently discussed
on the forum of Punto Informatico (the most famous italian
news site) where many people expressed my same position.

About my 'open letter', if asking Bouma to not insult
italians means being kicked, I'm glad to have been. That's
what people understood. Worse for them, I din't lost
anything.

For the other attacks by you, to me it's clean that your is
a flamewar. And it's not my interest to let you flame.

Who wants to know about me can simply read my web site:
http://www.favrin.net

Any explanation, question about who I am, what I did on
Amiga, what I do, can be find there and anyone can judge.

Sadly we can't talk about you because you use your right to
flame with people while remaining anonymous.

End of thread.
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