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[News] Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolioANN.lu
Posted on 30-Oct-2003 13:26 GMT by Joël EHRET68 comments
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On MorphOS-news.de, Genesi announced today that four patents owned by Raquel Velasco will be included in Genesi intellectual property portfolio. Read more there.
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 51 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 31-Oct-2003 15:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (hippocratus):
Pacta Sunt Servanda. That's the Amiga Inc problem ...
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 52 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 31-Oct-2003 15:26 GMT
The US patent office has established itself as granting patents that it should not have.

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/10/29/2336234
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 53 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 31-Oct-2003 15:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (koan):
@koan

> Patents also enforce that knowledge is disseminated, rather than be kept
> secret. A patent must describe how the invention works in sufficient
> detail that it could be reproduced. That is published for everyone to read.

Theoretically, but not practically. In practice the description of the patent is kept deliberately vague in order that it cover as much ground as possible and eliminate competition. While the authrities should refuse to grant such patents, the reality is that they do not.

> Patents give you a short term monopoly but in the long term everyone
> benefits.

So the theory goes. Again, the reality is that technology advances tend to outstrip patent expiry, to the point that the item covered by the patent is obsolete by the time it has expired. This effectively makes the monopoly "permanent" in relation to the useful lifetime of the idea covered by the patent.

> Any individual can get a patent, it doesn't cost that much. Now defending
> it, that is a different prospect. Only the lawyers benefit and that's why
> you have to be a big corporation.

Which is exactly why patents are bad. Their negative aspects are frequently abused, while their positive aspects are ineffective for those who need them most.
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 54 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 31-Oct-2003 15:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Bill Hoggett):
...is chaos better?!
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 55 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 31-Oct-2003 15:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Bill Hoggett):
Why would anyone spend a huge amount of resources to develop something if everyone else *would be allowed* to just steal their solution as soon as they are finished. Then the first company would have spent all the money, but others takes all the profit. Would anything at all be developed if that would be the case? Would we really have all the medicines we have today, the IT technology, etc?
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 56 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 31-Oct-2003 16:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (hippocratus):
>Oh i get it now, it good for Genesi to 'protect' itself like this but when Amiga try to protect its name, everyone squawk.

Amiga Inc has not shown any ability to make T-shirts or conduct an honest promotion, truthfully speak of office or phone or leadership or financial status - let alone protect something that they themselves have damaged.

Genesi IS interested in protecting itself. It is interested in financial solvency and futures that are not dependent alone on some small community's goodwill - a community which is fickle and conflicted in the best of times. Genesi is interested in going forward in the real world of business where empty threats and coercing a rabid community are not as effective as getting some of its own IP into the portfolio, and Genesi is interested in using it in products, and attracting better and larger partners who are not Microsoft - which many independent and alternative oriented people and companies will realize is a force that is too prevalent.

All the disingenuous talk of right and wrong in terms of black and white is so much hogwash. Whatever one wishes to change, promote, protect, or take forward, they are best likely to succeed if they not only have ideals but also a way of working in the real world. The internet yappers are free to stand on the sidelines and talk of the way the perfect world SHOULD BE, but they have no obligation to test those assertions in the marketplace, no payrolls to underwrite with their philosophies, no responsibility to take something forward other than their ideology.

It's a horrible world we live in, but live in it we must. To change it requires not only philosophies, but some base from which to promote them, enforce them, and make them compelling to others who are not especially given to philanthropy.
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 57 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 31-Oct-2003 16:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Anonymous):
There exists such a thing as copyright.
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 58 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 31-Oct-2003 16:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Leif):
Copyright laws are more insane than Patent laws.

And I'd note, you can't copyright the chemical makeup Sildenafil Citrate. You can, however, copyright it's trade-name, Viagra.

So copyright covers names, patents cover what is inside of something/how it's made.
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 59 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 31-Oct-2003 16:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Anonymous):
"Would we really have all the medicines, the IT tech etc ?"

No IT tech is really dependant on a simple "vauge" idea,
its all in the details. There is no "wheel" left to invent,
it was invented long ago already.

Maybe its different when it comes to medicines, where just
the formula for a molekule and a description what it is good for could
be enough.
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 60 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 31-Oct-2003 17:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Nate Downes):
Nate,

Yeah.. its true.

The details that make up the program could of cource
be copied straight off. But what use is it if it cannot be
understood for what it is and what advantages it has ?
This is something that the original inventor would know, but not
neccessarily the "copier".
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 61 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by IamCleverToo on 31-Oct-2003 18:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Anonymous):
@Anonymous (168.143.123.92)

>> And your point or are you a parrot?

NO I DO ADMIT IT.. I AM THE PARROT!!!!
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 62 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 31-Oct-2003 20:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (bbrv):
> 2) They could also give us leverage in a cross-licensing situation, and in
> this case what we are getting might have nothing to do with a STB.

Ahhh... NOW I'm beginning to see what this is all about. You're probably going to use these patents in yet another ploy to muscle the name "Amiga" out of either Amiga Inc or Gateway.

OK, move along, nothing to see here...
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 63 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by fnord on 01-Nov-2003 18:47 GMT
I'm happy that at least someone criticizes this ... on amiga.org nobody seemed to be willing or able to. I don't believe in "Intellectual Property Rights", no, I don't even believe there's something like "Intellectual Property". Maybe IP's the idea you have in your head, but you don't tell anyone about? I don't know!? When you tell anybody about it, when you make use of it, it's not your property (ok, I should use the German "Eigentum" here as I'm not sure if the English word is able to point out what I'm exactly talking about) any more. Additionaly I don't believe that you're able to create anything without taking from the pool of other people's ideas and inventions, you're not able to create something from the void, you're always using the work of other people. Software Patents kill small companies (so, it's absurd to say "we're a small company, we're able to defend ourselves using them etc. so they are good"), software patens kill innovation, software patents kill free software, Patents in general (think of Pharmacy ....) kill people!!!!
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 64 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 01-Nov-2003 20:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (bbrv):
@bbrv

Is chaos better than corrupt laws? Yes, I think so.

Chaos allows bad things to happen if people choose to do them, while corrupt laws ENFORCE bad things whether people choose them or not.
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 65 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 01-Nov-2003 20:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Anonymous):
We would still have plenty of technology advances even if the sole motivation was not that of making a financial killing.

The problem is not pretecting a PRODUCT. I have no problem with that. The problem is claiming ownership of ideas and concepts, as if no one else could possibly come up with them independently. That doesn't encourage development, it stifles it. People can trademark ideas tied to really crap products, and anyone else who may be able to do better is prevented from doing so by a corrupt patent law.

It is not the concept of patents that is the problem but the fact that every implementation in law deliberately allows the concept to be abused.
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 66 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 02-Nov-2003 09:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (fnord):
> I'm happy that at least someone criticizes this ... on amiga.org nobody seemed to be willing or able to.

The problem with amiga.org is is that it is run on genesi's servers, and most mods there (not Kees, he's OK) are genesi shills. So any time there's a flamewar, mods tend to only step in when the blue trolls are really running rampant, that means that everyone that's left is either a genesi fanboy/fangirl (hi Joanna!) and thinks that genesi can do no wrong, or a non-fanboy who doesn't feel like getting verbally abused over and over again. Either way, what genesi says, goes. They should just change their name to genesi.org, for all the relevance they have atm.
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 67 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 02-Nov-2003 11:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Anonymous):
> The problem with amiga.org is is that it is run on genesi's servers, and
> most mods there (not Kees, he's OK) are genesi shills.

Not true. There are pro-"red" moderators there too, and most of the moderated or locked threads recently have been those that moderators thought had crossed the line in criticising Amiga Inc.

The reason why debates are slower to start there is that there are no Anonymous trolls looking for flamewars.
Genesi adds four new patents to its intellectual property portfolio : Comment 68 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 03-Nov-2003 00:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Anonymous):
Dear Anonymous.. You are mistaken in more than one way in your posting.

I'd prefer you'd to check some facts before making such easy mistakes.. For easiest.. I have never claimed Genesi to be perfect or that I'd blindly followed them. ... At this point.. there aren't much seriously considerable alternativies around as I don't happen to like usin Unix-es.

For other comments.. Like that one of server.. I'd really hope you'll real old threads.. Amiga.org machine is on commercial hosting.. Ok. Genesi uses same service provider for one of their sites, but I'm not sure how much that should matter?
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