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[News] OS4 status updateANN.lu
Posted on 07-Nov-2003 18:04 GMT by Lewis Mistreated65 comments
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Thomas Frieden today posted some fresh news about OS4 wip on Amigaworld. There's something we're working on that we hope to show in France this weekend (so I'm not going to tell ya...won't spoil the surprise ). Other news: We're still working on the graphics system. The originally anticipated 2-3 weeks where of course 2-3 weeks of full-time work, but as always, something else comes your way and you have to rest some work and give priority to other... Things are slowly falling into place now. A lot of people are currently working on AmigaOne drivers (that's one of the biggest projects, anyway). And of course, everybody is still working on bits & pieces. Browsing through the recent upload notification mails on our beta list, I see some new PPC-native datatypes, several bugfixes to existing components (most of them are PPC now), some new PPC modules (not a lot... did I mention that most of them are PPC now, anyway ? I think I have only 4 68k modules remaining on my work installation, one of them graphics.library). One of the new "kernel" related features is a new ramlib (that's the component that is used to bring libraries into memory from disk): You might know that this is a prime candidate for crashing to do flakey library initialisation code. The new ramlib is now multi-threaded, meaning that the opening of libraries will be done in sub-processes. If one of those crashes, it's just removed by the mother process, improving system stablitiy a lot. Additionally, the latest exec includes a new memory tracking facility: You can now find out for each memory location if it's been allocated at all, and who allocated it. Very useful if you're debugging a program, or want to throw away all memory allocated by a given task. Sorry for the lack of news. There wasn't any big milestone reached, and with the frequent shows that's happening since some time, the overall progress isn't as visible anymore. On every show, you'll see more recent versions, more bits added, but nothing "spectacular". If you'll watch any footage from France, you'll probably notice that there where some speed improvemnts in the graphics sector even though the graphics.library they'll be showing is still the same as always.
OS4 status update : Comment 1 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 07-Nov-2003 17:34 GMT
Ok, so Thomas Frieden has 4 68k modules left on his plate. If he's the average of coders on OS4, 30 coders, 4 modules... that's 120 modules left to port.
OS4 status update : Comment 2 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Darren Eveland on 07-Nov-2003 17:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Nate Downes):
I think you misunderstood what he said. He has 4 68k modules, one of them being graphics.library on his installation. That means that there are only 4 modules of the entire OS4 that are still 68k. Which means there are only 4 modules left to compile as PPC native.
OS4 status update : Comment 3 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by stevey on 07-Nov-2003 17:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Darren Eveland):
Of course he misunderstood, he did it entirely on purpose. Class B troll.
OS4 status update : Comment 4 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Linus Gustafsson on 07-Nov-2003 17:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Nate Downes):
I think you should begin reading posts before commenting on them. This is not the first time in the last days that you have made a fool of yourself.
OS4 status update : Comment 5 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Richi on 07-Nov-2003 18:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Nate Downes):
Finally a troll with name and surname! Good!
Bytheway good work hyperion!
OS4 status update : Comment 6 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 07-Nov-2003 18:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Linus Gustafsson):
Just as I thought, I purposefully make a mistake, and rather than seeing anyone give any kind of encouragement the focus is on my comment. Only Darrin did the smart thing, and made a clear and concise retort. Good job Darrin.

Shame on you all, not even an "attaboy Thomas" from anyone but Ricci.

Would you have replied at all if I had not made the error?
OS4 status update : Comment 7 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by amighista on 07-Nov-2003 18:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Nate Downes):
mh, possible that here we have a PHILOSOPHER troll?!? :-D
OS4 status update : Comment 8 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Richi on 07-Nov-2003 18:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Nate Downes):
offcourse! but just with the second part.
OS4 status update : Comment 9 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 07-Nov-2003 18:23 GMT
Well, in the last year we've gone from "90% complete" through "nearly finished", "and "almost done" via "almost there". I guess we must be up to the "just putting the finishing touches" stage now? "Waiting for the varnish to dry"?
OS4 status update : Comment 10 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Nov-2003 18:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Nate Downes):
Thank you, Mr. Genesi Troll.
OS4 status update : Comment 11 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by stumpy on 07-Nov-2003 18:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
Mr Downix admits to being a troll, at least he's honest!
OS4 status update : Comment 12 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by DaveN on 07-Nov-2003 19:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Nate Downes):
Oh dear, who ever Nate Downes is, he`s just shown himself to be a complete plonker.

DaveN
OS4 status update : Comment 13 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 07-Nov-2003 19:42 GMT
> There wasn't any big milestone reached

I guess the next milestone of real significance for Hyperion will be *the first release* of their OS. I wonder when that will be.

> On every show, you'll see more recent versions, more bits added, but
> nothing "spectacular".

It seems like it's "What You See (On The Shows) Is What You'll Get", but probably more stable and more responsive/fast.


BTW, I wonder how long it will take for Hyperion to release *the next* version of their OS after the initial release. AFAIR, many of the more interesting features are scheduled for that release, and perhaps that release will bring it up on par with MorphOS (provided that MorphOS hasn't been developed even further by then).
OS4 status update : Comment 14 of 65ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 12 (DaveN):
Message removed by Christian Kemp for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Insult / Trolling
OS4 status update : Comment 15 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 07-Nov-2003 21:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Nate Downes):
Intentional or not, it might not be a good idea to set a bad tone right from the first comment. We clearly don't need any more flame wars or petty 500-comment threads where nobody comes out as a winner and that only serve to waste everyone's time.

Now, may I suggest that everyone stops worrying about any of this controversy on this Friday night and does something fun, away from the computer, and then maybe we can all get back here tomorrow or Monday and actually start some interesting and valuable discussions?
OS4 status update : Comment 16 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by stumpy on 07-Nov-2003 21:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Christian Kemp):
Sorry christian, but you do realise your words are but drops of piss in the great toilet bowl that is ANN.LU.
OS4 status update : Comment 17 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 07-Nov-2003 21:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (stumpy):
Ann.lu is IMO the very best site (in english) for amiga related (that includes all kinds of alternatives) news and rumours. The freedom of speach is not a bug, it's a feature(tm). That freedom is what makes ann.lu what it is. Some posts will not suit your own personal taste or point of view, but that is a natural result from this *freedom*. If you can't handle it, go away.
OS4 status update : Comment 18 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by - on 07-Nov-2003 21:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (stumpy):
While sometimes it takes a little effort to filter out "noise" this site seems to have more real info on it than a lot of the other sites.


Stew
OS4 status update : Comment 19 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 07-Nov-2003 22:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (-):
I agree. This is *the* site that gives you *all* the info, and lets it up to the readers themselves to filter whatever noise they may encounter. It's one of a kind!

Long live ann.lu! :-)
OS4 status update : Comment 20 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 07-Nov-2003 22:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Christian Kemp):
Sorry about that. Temptation was too great.

But I did find it interesting how noone replied to this thread before I did.
OS4 status update : Comment 21 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 07-Nov-2003 22:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (amighista):
> mh, possible that here we have a PHILOSOPHER troll?!? :-D

I see myself more as a philosopher than a troll ;)
OS4 status update : Comment 22 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 07-Nov-2003 22:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (stevey):
@stevey (80.45.160.71)

"Of course he misunderstood, he did it entirely on purpose. Class B troll."

Instead of posting a completely brainless comment, why not use your brain and post something intelligent? ;)
The less 'anonymous' and 'un-intelligent' posts we have, the better this message board becomes. ;)
OS4 status update : Comment 23 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Alan L Buxey on 07-Nov-2003 22:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Nate Downes):
no. there are 4 68k modules in the whole of the OS4 project. all the rest
is already running PPC native.
OS4 status update : Comment 24 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Alan L Buxey on 07-Nov-2003 22:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (takemehomegrandma):
the first release should be 'on par' with the current/forthcoming MorphOS. unless 1.6 is going to start pulling out some amazing new features. Of course,
some of the things folks really would like to see...and should have been done
when the 3.5/3.9 work was done years ago wont be in until the update release (but thats already well documented and known)

alan
OS4 status update : Comment 25 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by - on 07-Nov-2003 23:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Nate Downes):
"Sorry about that. Temptation was too great"

Apology accepted. I took as sarcasm anyway, can't figure why everyone else made such a big deal out of it. That is what makes Wrong Planet so much fun.
We can laugh at ourselves. You do know the rest of the "computer world" is :)
Of course we are waiting for the last laugh.
OS4 status update : Comment 26 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by IanS on 07-Nov-2003 23:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Nate Downes):
Oh goodness me.

Nate Downes speculating on something he knows nothing about AGAIN! W0000t Everyone listen to what he has to say as if its the gospel truth!

;-)

Ian
OS4 status update : Comment 27 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 08-Nov-2003 00:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Nate Downes):
Please stop, you only make yourself, and indirectly Genesi look bad with your silly post.
OS4 status update : Comment 28 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2003 02:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Nate Downes):
Are you being stupid on purpose? geeez.
OS4 status update : Comment 29 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Lasse Bodilsen on 08-Nov-2003 08:49 GMT
Great work Hyperion, nice to see the progress is steadily come the right way. and keep it going, im pretty sure all will be pleased with the result in the end.

to the rest: back on topic.
OS4 status update : Comment 30 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Chris H on 08-Nov-2003 10:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Lando):
@Lando:

I know how you feel, OS4 seems to have taken forever. Unfortunately, as with most software projects, the last few percent take the most time. This is why "90% complete" is a fairly useless guage of progress. :-(

BTW, it sure *looks* like all the effort being put into the A1 version of OS4 is going to significantly delay the Cyberstorm version, so that both versions (not just the A1) will not be ready till after Xmas. Well, that'll give the blue trolls something to crow about... (pity we have red trolls too, as that just makes things even worse)
OS4 status update : Comment 31 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Trizt on 08-Nov-2003 11:34 GMT
Something that allways has been in the back of my head, what if Hyperion and MorphOS team had cooperated and just made one OS togehter. Now when Amiga Inc is more or less out of the picture, what about making a try to merge OS4 and MorphOS (I know it's a bit late now when the two have evolved quite far)?
OS4 status update : Comment 32 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by SLayeRDK on 08-Nov-2003 11:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Trizt):
Why you think Amiga Inc. is out of the picture ?.
OS4 status update : Comment 33 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Roj on 08-Nov-2003 11:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (SLayeRDK):
That's what I've been asking for years now. Instead of two "constantly beta" level operating systems, we could have one highly polished and very well supported OS, but every time it's brought up, 3059265340 replies tell us what a stupid idea that is. :-\
OS4 status update : Comment 34 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by The_Cretin on 08-Nov-2003 12:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Roj):
hehe

Thats a stupid idea !!

only cretins would support that view !!

lol
OS4 status update : Comment 35 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by John on 08-Nov-2003 13:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (SLayeRDK):
If Ben Hermans would stop going around defending them to the death maybe people will just forget about those crooks and move on with their lifes.
OS4 status update : Comment 36 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by amighista on 08-Nov-2003 13:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Trizt):
being realistic, there's no possibility of merging between OS4 and MOS. It's more likely, from a business viewpoint, that the Amiga side will get an agreement with Genesi for deploying OS4 on Peg and transferring all the IP, papers and code related to MOS to Ainc, with a migration path to OS4 for all MOS apps, IMVHO
OS4 status update : Comment 37 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 08-Nov-2003 13:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (amighista):
Yeah right after that ice-cream-factory starts production in hell ....

Really,some people havesuch bizzare ideas !
OS4 status update : Comment 38 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 08-Nov-2003 14:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Trizt):
at this point it would be difficult. Hyperion's model for the future goes one way, Genesi's another.

Frankly, many of Hyperions decisions for OS4 seem to be more of a "MorphOS does this, so we will do the opposite" from my perspective. Picasso96 vs CyberGraphX, for good example. Full version of ReAction vs MUI for another. Evolving the API's vs. Locking up the API's and generating a new superset seperate from the original. That kind of thing. This always troubled me, as that makes OS4 look more reactionary than revolutionary to me.

If you are going to respond with examples to show me a different opinion, please be clear and concise. This thread does not need more trollbait, I've already supplied far too much of that.
OS4 status update : Comment 39 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2003 14:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Nate Downes):
I think you're forgetting the P96 and ReAction were already part of the AmigaOS installation CD - even if P96 was in the third party contribution drawer.

If anything it's MOS that's being reactionary - choosing parts abandoned during AmigaOS development (not necessarily because they're bad - just not chosen for the path forward).
OS4 status update : Comment 40 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 08-Nov-2003 14:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Nate Downes):
Well so you think every one is in for an revolution every time, I'm not,
I simply won't a improved system that is responsive and looks Grete,
I do not won't every thing changed, reshaped or moved around,
I and I do not wont an revolution for the sake of an revolution,
and be for you read inn to may message and say you think MOS is revolution,
NO I DO NOT THINK MOS IS A REVOLUTION, AND I'M NOT GOING TO ARGUE OVER THIS FACT,
I FACT I HARDLY SE IT AS IMPROVEMENT OVER AMIGAOSXL OR AMITALON.

I Se the new API as an new improvement, as it makes common developers produce more efficient
code even whit out knowing about it, no extra macros, no in line assembler code,
that makes your program less portable, yes porting it back to 68k can be tricky,
however we are not moving back we are moving forewords.

Picasso96 vs CyberGraphX well you need to think about how owns the rights,
ReAction vs MUI how owns the rights, any way ReAction has always bin a part of AmigaOS,
the source code where available for hyperon, some thing I don't think MUI source-code is.

Any way I always disliked MUI for being slow.
OS4 status update : Comment 41 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 08-Nov-2003 15:14 GMT
Unless we want to pay out for an A1 we need to wait for the A1Micro

A1 "soon" was announced on eyetech.co.uk in november 02

Then took an appreciable amount of time to become available

No new of A1Micro or preorders yet.
OS4 status update : Comment 42 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 08-Nov-2003 15:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Anonymous):
Good concise arguement, unlike the fellow below you. Pity you chose to remain anonymous.
OS4 status update : Comment 43 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 08-Nov-2003 15:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Kronos):
LOL
OS4 status update : Comment 44 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 08-Nov-2003 15:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Nate Downes):
<QOUTE>
Ok, so Thomas Frieden has 4 68k modules left on his plate. If he's the average of coders on OS4, 30 coders, 4 modules... that's 120 modules left to port.</QOUTE>

So you se your self as the light don't you
OS4 status update : Comment 45 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 08-Nov-2003 15:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Nate Downes):
So you think my comment is bias? start looking at your own comments,

<OS4 look more reactionary than revolutionary to me>

So way do you need to point out this in a Amiga OS 4.0 news tread?
clearly it an opinion made to irritate.
OS4 status update : Comment 46 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Richi on 08-Nov-2003 19:44 GMT
original message: ...we hope to show in France this weekend ...
any report?
any photo?
any movie?
is there a homepage?

bye
OS4 status update : Comment 47 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2003 20:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Kjetil):
Nate knows that as soon as the AmigaLite+OS4 is on sale (by all indications in less than a year), Genesi's user base will see a dramatic drop in growth. The Next-Gen A500 will have arrived and all Genesi will have is a technologically inferior "me-too" (queue articia-bashing by the usual crowd). Genesi will then have to admit defeat as an amiga contender and go on to sell set-top boxes. Not a bad thing in itself, after all there *has* to be more money in set-top boxes than Amiga clones, but the egos that rule Genesi (Bill Buck and Laire) won't stand for it. It's eating at all of them, being able to see it coming but being so powerless to stop it. So Nate's doing the only thing he can, post lame flamebait and act all all smug when someone swallows the hook.

Yes Nate, I'm anonymous. As someone else mentioned, freedom of speech is a great thing. Deal with it.
OS4 status update : Comment 48 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2003 21:11 GMT
LOL

Nate Downes again

http://forums.atari.org/read.php3?num=3&id=12889&thread=12856
OS4 status update : Comment 49 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2003 21:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous):
To paraphrase from Raiders of the Lost Ark, "they don't know you like I do, Downes" :)
OS4 status update : Comment 50 of 65ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 09-Nov-2003 01:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Anonymous):
A lot can happen in a Year, or even considerable shorter time. Anyhow, it's interesting to see how things sort out.
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