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[News] The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga IncANN.lu
Posted on 14-Nov-2003 21:02 GMT by samface99 comments
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You can find the COMPLETE civil docket for the Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc court case here. These files has been retrieved through the Public Access to Court Electronic Records (PACER) system and has been reproduced as a whole and completely as published in the Case Management/Electronic Case Files system on U.S. District Court Western District of Washington's website.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 1 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 14-Nov-2003 20:53 GMT
And what revilations does it tell us?

And no I'm not going to read it :-)
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 2 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Tigger on 14-Nov-2003 20:54 GMT
Now Samface, since these are the same documents that Rich was providing and which you accused him of altering, you will be making a public apology to him on Ann and other sites, right??
-Tig
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 3 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 14-Nov-2003 21:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Tigger):
Exactly when and where did I accuse Rich Woods of *altering* the documents? All I ever criticized Rich Woods for is partially password protecting it and only giving access to arbitrary chosen individuals.

Now, will you apologize to me for accusing me of accusing Rich woods of altering the documents? If you don't you're a hypocrite.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 4 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 14-Nov-2003 21:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Matt Parsons):
>And no I'm not going to read it :-)

Then it's not for you. You see, this is my main point of publishing these documents; to keep things intact and in it's appropriate context rather than torn apart and used for various agendas. If you're not willing to go through the documents, then leave it be until we have a judgement.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 5 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by CnlPepper on 14-Nov-2003 21:27 GMT
Read the contract, its in the pdf, link no 3.

In appendix A part 1 it gives a list of devices hich amiga is to develop the DE for, these are CASHBOY, MOBICASH, TRANSPONDER - SMART CHIP READERS, CASHBOY@HOME and WINDOWS CE TERMINAL (or 'SMARTBOY').

The important part is part 2: Right to Expand list which states:
"Thendic has the right with the consent of Amiga at any time to add new products to this list to thereby implicate Amiga's obligations under the Agreement to integrate the Licensed Software into such additional Thendic Products. Amiga will not unreasonably withhold constent to expand the list of Thendic Products"

ie Amiga do not have to develop for the DE for the Pegasos if they have a reasonable reason for not wanting to expand the list.

As Thendic have never supplied amiga (so its claimed) with any of the hardware required to develop the DE on for the current list of products then Amiga do have a reasonable reason not to give consent to expanding the list of products.

If Amiga were foolish enough to conset to a larger product list then to be honest they deserve what they get.

Of course its up to the judge to decide.

CnlPepper - Hoping his view was imparital enough not to get roasted from both sides....
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 6 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by TheRealNapster on 14-Nov-2003 21:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (CnlPepper):
This would be a fun court case to see:

Judge: "What are you suing for?"

BBRV: "Amiga Inc. Is suppose to make Amiga DE run on our products and they haven't."

Judge: "Amiga Inc., How come you haven't gotten Amiga DE to run on any of Genesi's products?"

Amiga Inc.: "Umm... I guess because they don't actually make any products?."

Judge: "Is this true BBRV?"

BBRV: "Yeah, well... we'll have something out in September..err.. I mean.. October..oh wait November?? Hmm... By December.. Yeah that's it."
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 7 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by IanS on 14-Nov-2003 22:06 GMT
Does this add fuel to the rumour that Genesi are suing Amiga in order to force amiga into bankruptcy through paying lawyer fees? (Although they haven't got any lawyer atm IIRC ;-))

Ian
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 8 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 14-Nov-2003 22:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (CnlPepper):
Deserve what they get? You mean money coming in on every Pegasos sold?
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 9 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 14-Nov-2003 22:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (IanS):
It certainly makes me think that Amiga Inc walked into one hell of an ambush when they signed that deal with Thendic.

Whether Thendic intended to use the deal to kill off Amiga Inc at the time of signing or whether they realised later that they had something that could enable them to dry up Amiga Inc's already disappearing assests is still open to debate.

My personal opinion of this is that the bait was laid, Amiga Inc walked into the "killing zone", Thendic closed off all escape routes and then opened fire with everything at their disposal... it's too well executed to be anything else. Can anyone say "military precision"?

And before anyone asks, I have read the documents.

@ Samface: Thanks for going to the effort of posting them in this logical and easy to access format.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 10 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 14-Nov-2003 22:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Nate Downes):
>Deserve what they get? You mean money coming in on every Pegasos sold?

Oh please. The original plan looks like it was for Amiga Inc to earn revenue off Thendic's other appliances by licencing DE for use on WinCE. However the covert agenda of Thendic was to use the DE logos and trademarks to advertise the then unnamed Pegasos as an "Amiga" runing and "Amiga OS". The fact that is was AmigaDE wouldn't mean anything to the average layman - they would just see the word "Amiga" next to a Boing Ball. This saves Thendic from actually forking out some serious money to obtain the rights to the Amiga Name and instead they only have to pay pennies on every Pegasos unit sold.

This is where their statement that Amiga, by refusing to let them use the trademarks on the Pegasos or port DE so they can say it's "powered by Amiga" or running "AMIGA (de) OS", is costing them money. It's true, because it IS costing them money because they're unable to mislead people into believing that they are selling an official Amiga NG powered by an official Amiga OS.

Have I missed anything? Flaming commence....
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 11 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Nov-2003 22:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Nate Downes):
Oh, shut up Nate. Your boss, Bill Buck, is on record as saying what the entire purpose of this lawsuit was (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1051380286&category=news&number=97#comment):

"The whole AmigaDE lawsuit was just a means to shut Bill McEwen up and force Amiga Inc. into a settlement that might include us obtaining the rights to the Amiga trademarks and the classic OS."

@samface: thanks for letting everyone see the *entire* evidence, not just what some people wanted others to see.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 12 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 14-Nov-2003 22:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (IanS):
>Does this add fuel to the rumour that Genesi are suing Amiga in order to force
>amiga into bankruptcy through paying lawyer fees? (Although they haven't got
>any lawyer atm IIRC ;-))

Amiga Inc does have a lawyer.

But anyway, I think we all agree, red and blue sides, that we'd all be better off without Amiga Inc. So I don't see what your problem is - Genesi is doing us all a favour by trying to remove this blight from the Amiga community.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 13 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Nov-2003 23:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (smithy):
What? Genesi is closing up shop!
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 14 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Rob on 14-Nov-2003 23:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Darrin):
Thats why they renamed themselves to Genocide.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 15 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 14-Nov-2003 23:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Darrin):
Whether Thendic intended to use the deal to kill off Amiga Inc at the time of signing or whether they realised later that they had something that could enable them to dry up Amiga Inc's already disappearing assests is still open to debate.
--

At the time the contract was signed, there was no relation between Thendic
France and bPlan GmbH.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 16 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 14-Nov-2003 23:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Not even a "strategic partnership"?
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 17 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Tigger on 14-Nov-2003 23:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (samface):
>>>>
Exactly when and where did I accuse Rich Woods of *altering* the documents? All I ever criticized Rich Woods for is partially password protecting it and only giving access to arbitrary chosen individuals.
>>>>

Gee you mean like here:

http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1062986091&category=forum&number=85#comment

or here:

http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1062986091&category=forum&number=195#comment

and I didnt even look very hard.

>>>>>>
Now, will you apologize to me for accusing me of accusing Rich woods of altering the documents? If you don't you're a hypocrite
>>>>>>
Now you owe me and Rich an apology, I'm sure you'll be right on that right???
-Tig
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 18 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 14-Nov-2003 23:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Darrin):
Well. that original Deal was signed allmost exactly three years ago. If they were having business (or interest) back then.. Must have been a long project.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 19 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 14-Nov-2003 23:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (TheRealNapster):
Dear troll if there is someone withoiut a product, well these are all AMigaInc related supporters.
Pegasos an MOs are a reality from 2 years.
ANd Os4? De? where are?
I hope AMigaInc to fail soon.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 20 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by TheRealNapster on 15-Nov-2003 00:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Eva):
Dear Eva,

Tell me a product that Genesi currently makes that I can purchase? Hmmm.. You can't? I wonder why that is.

The point is that Genesis made 600 boards then STOPPED production. Do you think that is not good enough to "reasonably withhold constent" for porting Amiga DE?

Why don't you tell me about the PEG II. Let see not even the Almighty Microsoft can port something to hardware that they aren't permited access to (if it even exists at all).

So do you think a court of law of going to think that Amiga Inc. "unreasonably withheld consent" to port software to something that that they are not given access to?
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 21 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 15-Nov-2003 00:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (JoannaK):
>Well. that original Deal was signed allmost exactly three years ago. If they
>were having business (or interest) back then.. Must have been a long project.

The fact that this deal was made three years ago means nothing to the scenarios I described. It simply reveals that a certain party has had a long time interest in aquiring the rights to the Amiga trademarks through the DE product. In fact, back then we were all getting excited about purchasing "powered by Amiga" PDA's running DE. However, this product was as much vapour as the fabled BoXeR. My question now is, was there EVER going to be an AmigaDE PDA or was this simply part of the bait set to trap Amiga Inc?

Also, this isn't the only long-term plan that has come to light. The whole campaign of misinformation and "turning" existing Amiga supporters into "blue camp followers" has been going on longer than that. One by one, active advocates for the AmigaOne/OS4/DE have been targeted, courted and subverted. Sometimes they were left in place in order to conduct subversive operations against Amiga Inc and it's partners until they were finally allowed to reveal their true "colours" and stand openly in the ranks of their fellow co-conspirators.

You should know this only too well. How long were you under orders to maintain your presence in the AmigaOne mailing lists until you were told you could make a strategic retreat to the next "firing position"?
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 22 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by stricq on 15-Nov-2003 00:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Tigger):
>>>>
Exactly when and where did I accuse Rich Woods of *altering* the documents? All I ever criticized Rich Woods for is partially password protecting it and only giving access to arbitrary chosen individuals.
>>>>

> Gee you mean like here:

> http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1062986091&category=forum&number=85#comment

Nope, this does not fit the criteria. You are wrong, there is no accusation of modification.

> or here:

> http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1062986091&category=forum&number=195#comment

Yes, he mentions modification but is more concerned in the end with the missing pages. While you have a point with this comment, it is so small as to be negligible.

> and I didnt even look very hard.

Look some more, your evidence is lacking...
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 23 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Rob on 15-Nov-2003 00:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Eva):
Hiya Eva

all AmigaInc supporters eh. Bit of a sweeping statement there.


I suppose the Pocket Pak for Pocket PCs kinda makes Microsoft an Amiga
supporter, they've published an Amiga game, that is support isn't it.
I think the Redmond Giant has more than its fair share of products.


And ZeoNeo seem to have developed some of the Amiga DE games, so they
must have bought the Amiga DE (an Amiga Inc product), and their Amiga
DE games are their own product. I guess they must be Amiga Inc
supporters as well.


Or did you specifically mean people who want OS4? Word is that some
people actually have alpha versions running.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 24 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 15-Nov-2003 02:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (stricq):
>> Gee you mean like here:
>> http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1062986091&category=forum&number=85#comment

>Nope, this does not fit the criteria. You are wrong, there is no accusation of modification.

Yes there is. Try reading it?

Deliberately removing, or "Leaving information out" from a document is a form of modification. This is what samface accused Rich Woods of doing.

>> or here:
>> http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1062986091&category=forum&number=195#comment

>Yes, he mentions modification <snip>

Indeed he does, which is just what Tig was pointing out :)

>> and I didnt even look very hard.

>Look some more, your evidence is lacking

LOL. It shows up Samface as a blatant and disgraceful liar (see his denial that he ever made such accusations earlier in this thread), who will deliberately make false accusations and start rumours in order to fit his agenda.

I think he owes the whole community a big fat apology.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 25 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Nov-2003 03:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Matt Parsons):
> And what revilations does it tell us?

Since it's the EXACT same documents, NO more, NO less, as Rich Woods has published, it reveals that Samface is nothing but an annoying troll. (As well as quite mentally retarded, if he doesn't even realise the bizarre, nonsensical and offensive nature of his actions and statements). IOTW, nothing is revealed that wasn't known before by any sane person reading the samfacian ramblings.

Even now when his baseless accusations, his false innuendo, and his general slimyness have once again been exposed for what they are, he has the audacity to imply that what we've read before was something else than the "COMPLETE" (CAPITALISED and all) docket!

You're quite something, Samface!

Anyway, kudos Samface for making descriptive links. That's really all these "news" are about. A HTML document. Though I think you should've used Rich's PDF filenames, since they're descriptive enough when people save the files locally.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 26 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by willey on 15-Nov-2003 04:00 GMT
So,,,,,where is the complete dispostion of Bill McEwen from August 2003? In these documents I was only able to see partial dispositions that were missing many pages.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 27 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Tigger on 15-Nov-2003 04:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (willey):
>>>>
So,,,,,where is the complete dispostion of Bill McEwen from August 2003? In these documents I was only able to see partial dispositions that were missing many pages.
>>>>
This has been discussed before, but I'll go over it again. What we have a copy of at both sites now are the filing of the Thendic lawyer to the federal court. It includes a large number of pages from a deposition given by Bill McEwen on August 7, 2003 as an attachment. Why aren't all the pages there?? It appears at least some of the pages were not included because they contained information that Amiga Inc considered secret about businesses they were hoping to sign agreements with (pages 21-28 for example) and which Amiga probably had listed as pages not to be shared with the general public. Its also possible that Thendics lawyers didn't include other sections that didnt pertain to the case, for example, since Bolten was there, its likely that some questions pertaining to the debts to him and Matt where asked, they aren't pertinent to the current case, but likely could be used at the settlement phase of the case. If there were portions of the depostion which were omitted by the Thendic lawyers which would help Amiga Incs case, they should have included them in the 4 or 5 filings we have had by the Amiga Inc lawyers since the deposition. Nothing like that occurred, so I wouldnt look for anything pro Amiga Inc in the missing pages when they become available, however given McEwens 14 Billion comment, I am pretty sure they would be a humorous read.
-Tig
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 28 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Tigger on 15-Nov-2003 04:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (smithy):
>>>>
Amiga Inc does have a lawyer.
>>>>

Why do you think that Smithy??
-Tig
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 29 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald on 15-Nov-2003 05:22 GMT
This "Samface" reminds me of the character "Wimp Lo" in the movie Kung Pow. He keeps losing and still believes he's winning. lol

*cough* *cough* stop trolling and grow up.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 30 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 15-Nov-2003 05:55 GMT
@Darrin

The OEM agreement between Thendic Germany and Amiga Inc. was signed in November 2000 (http://www.mindrelease.net/amiga-thendic/show_case_doc_1,16781,,,,1.pdf).

The business relation between Thendic-France and bplan, however, started in November 2001, according to BBRV (http://www.pegasosppc.de/chronike.html, source entry #1).

Thendic-France has been and - now as part of the Genesi group - still is interested in the market of mobile devices (Eclipsis), as already stated back then in the big interview with amiga-news.de in April 2002 (http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2002-04-00159-EN.html): "Long term, the handheld mobile market. This is a growth market. Mobility is the key. Communication and entertainment are the focus."

There BBRV also have told that they've been the first who got a DE-licence, etc. And in some comment here on ANN from this year, IIRC, they also stated that they would have helped AI back then, etc.

So from all this I do think that their interest in DE was genuine back then. Of course they may have considered the name "Amiga" an added value, but assuming more than that does rather sound like a quite exaggerated theory of conspiracy. Especially since then BBRV would have had to be clairvoyants to forsee the successful developments by Ralph Schmidt as well as especially (to get a platform) by Gerald Carda and Thomas Knäbel.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 31 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 15-Nov-2003 07:54 GMT
Do not froget that I invented the term "spamface".
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 32 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 15-Nov-2003 08:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Tigger):
Your first link was to a post where I questioned why he was leaving parts of the information out. Again, that's not the same thing as altering it. The second link was to a post where I quested something to verify the authenticity of those documents, still not the same thing as accusing Rich Woods of altering them.

When do I get your apology?
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 33 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 15-Nov-2003 08:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Lando):
"Deliberately removing, or "Leaving information out" from a document is a form of modification. This is what samface accused Rich Woods of doing"

No, leaving parts out and altering the documents are not even remotely close to the same thing.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 34 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 15-Nov-2003 08:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Ronald):
Winning? I don't know. Facts are, Rich Woods could and should have done exactly what I did now, post it all and let people use their own judgement based on the real facts. Instead he only picked out certain parts that he posted as news on ANN and had everything else password protected. This gave room for speculation about his intentions with doing so and a big question mark about the what he chose to password protect. I asked Rich Woods to please make everything public at several occations but all I ever got was "get it yourself". So, I did. Here it is. I payed 7 cents for each page, solely for the purpose of getting verification of the documents authenticity and make the entire civil docket public, available for all. Is this your way of thanking me?
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 35 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 15-Nov-2003 08:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (samface):
>No, leaving parts out and altering the documents are not even remotely close to the same thing.

To remove parts of a document is to alter it. Period. Don't start with your usual pedantic bullshit. You're a liar, you have been proven to make false accusations, and even worse, you aren't even man enough to admit it and apologise. Pathetic.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 36 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Nov-2003 09:39 GMT
Samface, are you a blue troll now? Why this constant bitching against AmigaOS 4 and AmigaOne?
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 37 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by IanS on 15-Nov-2003 10:11 GMT
Would be nice to hear bb's official statement on why they're suing Amiga. Oh wait - it was because he wants to give them money wasn't it? ;-)

Referring to this passage again:
"Thendic has the right with the consent of Amiga at any time to add new products to this list to thereby implicate Amiga's obligations under the Agreement to integrate the Licensed Software into such additional Thendic Products. Amiga will not unreasonably withhold constent to expand the list of Thendic Products"

I'm not a lawyer and I'm not even going to pretend (unlike some) that because I know one I am suddenly qualified to give me opinion as fact, but the passage above says to me that Amiga Inc have to a) give consent, and b) not unreasonably withhold consent. Presumably bbrv are suing due to point b. Am I okay so far?

Now, seeing as Intent doesn't exist for PPC AFAIK, how it can be unreasonable to disagree to porting AmigaDE when IT NEEDS INTENT TO EXIST? Am I barking up the wrong tree completely here? It seems simple, even to someone who's knows nothing about law. Maybe if Thendic get Intent ported to PPC THEN they have a case...

Interesting.

Ian
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 38 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 15-Nov-2003 10:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (IanS):
@IanS

Well, two things I'd add:

Back then, the "About Amiga" on each press-release contained the following: "AmigaDE based applications can run unchanged on x86, PowerPC, M Core, ARM, StrongARM, MIPS R3000, R4000, R5000, SH 3, SH4, and NEC V850 processors." So didn't everyone - and therefore also Thendic when signing the contract - have to expect back then that DE would also run in principle on any PPC-based product they had in the pipeline or possibly would develop in the future?

Unfortunately, it seems the former press-releases by AI aren't available on their homepage anymore, just their titles. But for example here you can find such a press-release in Google's cache:

http://www.google.de/search?q=cache:YFvwbtGngAoJ:www.vgr.com/mediator/Pressrelease16.txt+Amiga.com+DE+PowerPC&hl=de&ie=UTF-8

And the second point is: Given AI's obviously not that healthy financial situation - couldn't the judge consider getting any possible income, including licence fees for DE on Pegasos, "reasonable"?
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 39 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 15-Nov-2003 10:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Darrin):
No nothing. The partnership came AFTER the bPlan - Amiga Inc partnership failed,
as they needed a distributor.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 40 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 15-Nov-2003 11:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Senex):
And yes, before someone else points to it, in the given example the cache would not have been necessary, okay, okay. :-)
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 41 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 15-Nov-2003 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Tigger):
@Tig
>>>>>
>Amiga Inc does have a lawyer.
>>>>>
>
>Why do you think that Smithy??

Rich Woods posted some documents showing that billyboy had re-acquired counsel some time ago. The thread is on ANN and most of the speculation is about where he got the cash from.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 42 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by IanS on 15-Nov-2003 11:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Senex):
@Senex

The contract specifies a certain list of devices. If AmigaDE doesn't support PPC anymore (Okay, never did - but that's not what the press release said ;-)) then it's not "unreasonable" (whatever that means) for Amiga Inc to not port it, regardless of old press releases, IMO. I guess that's what the courts have to decide though.

Also, would the licence fees really be a good income? I expect Amiga Inc have spent more on lawyers fees with court cases against former employees (funded by Genesi/Thendic/bbrv??) and frivolous AmigaDE contract cases (funded by Genesi/Thendic) than they would ever get from Genesi, but who's to say?

The thing that really confuses me is that BBRV has referred to AmigaDE in the past in a highly negative way (IIRC) so why on earth would he want the port so much? Is it central to their future plans? Or just another excuse to sue Amiga Inc.

BBRV - your thoughts please! :-)

Ian
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 43 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 15-Nov-2003 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (IanS):
IanS: one comment to this reasoning.. It has been long time announced plan that AmigaDE will be integrated to upcoming versions of OS4 .. And that OS4 runs ONLY on PPC. So how can this happen if AmigaDE don't run on PPC systems at all?
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 44 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by IanS on 15-Nov-2003 12:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (JoannaK):
>> upcoming versions

AFAIK, Thendic/Genesi want it now.

/me shrugs

Like I said, I don't know much about the situation, hence asking bbrv for clarification.

Ian
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 45 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Nov-2003 12:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (JoannaK):
Simple. AmigaOS 4.2 is available for both PPC and x86 systems but only AmigaOS 4.2/x86 version have AmigaDE. AmigaOS 4.2/PPC is without AmigaDE.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 46 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 15-Nov-2003 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Lando):
>To remove parts of a document is to alter it. Period. Don't start with your usual pedantic bullshit. You're a liar, you have been proven to make false accusations, and even worse, you aren't even man enough to admit it and apologise. Pathetic.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 47 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 15-Nov-2003 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Lando):
>To remove parts of a document is to alter it. Period. Don't start with your usual pedantic bullshit. You're a liar, you have been proven to make false accusations, and even worse, you aren't even man enough to admit it and apologise. Pathetic.

So what you are saying now is that all the documents have been available before?
Hm, I havn't followed this very closely, but I recall people saying that you needed a password to access certain parts. I would call that 'leave out' even
though technically they are there. (But no one can read it)
So before you go ahead and try to nullify Samface, I suggest that you take a step back and think about the facts before you post.

regards,
Stefan
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 48 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald on 15-Nov-2003 14:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (samface):
Stop trolling and grow up.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 49 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by BrianK on 15-Nov-2003 14:26 GMT
Samface, Samface, Samface...

What the heck it made Betelguese go away I'd think it'd work for Samface too.
The COMPLETE civil docket for Thendic Electronics, et al v. Amiga Inc : Comment 50 of 99ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-Nov-2003 14:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Senex):
"And the second point is: Given AI's obviously not that healthy financial situation - couldn't the judge consider getting any possible income, including licence fees for DE on Pegasos, "reasonable"?"

Before any income comes in, Amiga Inc (or Tao) would have to spend money on doing the porting. It could be a while before the royalties added up to enough to show a profit on the port.
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