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[News] Thendic-FranceANN.lu
Posted on 17-Nov-2003 19:18 GMT by bbrv161 comments
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At today's hearing of the Tribunal of Commerce in Paris a judgment was rendered declaring Pretory, S.A. in bankruptcy and appointing a receiver. The process finally will now begin to transfer Thendic-France's assets to Genesi SARL. Our situation with Pretory S.A. has been a long and difficult one. In all matters we have cooperated with the French Government and agreed to close the Company in a coordinated and proper manner. Time will demonstrate that we have behaved properly and legally in all respects as shareholders and managers. In no way will these matters effect Genesi. Finally, we are personally free to devote the time and resources we want to the Genesi. Sincerely, Raquel and Bill
Thendic-France : Comment 1 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 17-Nov-2003 18:44 GMT
Well, all in all in effect it's good news. Now this matter is finally cleared. And Genesi can go ahead!
Thendic-France : Comment 2 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Nov-2003 18:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Senex):
One company down, one to go...
Thendic-France : Comment 3 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Ron van Herk on 17-Nov-2003 18:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Senex):
@Senex
I agree, a closed past can in no way interfere with the future :-)

Cheers,
Ron
Thendic-France : Comment 4 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Gunne Steen on 17-Nov-2003 18:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
Sad to see it is people who wish other bad things... :-(
Thendic-France : Comment 5 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Nov-2003 18:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
@anonymous (207.46.228.14)
Yes, I agree. But there have been rumours about Amiga, Inc. going down for so long that I wonder if/when it will happen at all.
Thendic-France : Comment 6 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 17-Nov-2003 19:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
It is not really a funny thing Mr. Anonymous 207.46.228.14. Many innocent people have suffered. The Company at its heigth employeed nearly 750 people.

R&B
Thendic-France : Comment 7 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Nov-2003 19:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (bbrv):
I think it is commendable that you bring this information forth yourselves.

It is sad that so many people lost their jobs, but somehow I find it hard to sympathize - at least with the leaders.
Thendic-France : Comment 8 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 17-Nov-2003 19:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (bbrv):
@crowers

No company folding is good news, not least one that employs people

@bbrv

Was this as a result of that airport article we saw in La Figaro ( I think it was them )
earlier in the year?

- Dave.
Thendic-France : Comment 9 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 17-Nov-2003 19:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Anonymous):
@Anonymous 217.157.142.72

1) Bad news does not get better with time.
2) For the record, we were not the "leaders" -- only shareholders. It was when we fired the "leaders" through the Board of Directors that Bill had to assume a management role.

@DaveP -- that was just the tip of the iceberg. Eventually, all the details will surface.

R&B
Thendic-France : Comment 10 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 17-Nov-2003 19:22 GMT
I wonder if and how this will affect the Amiga Inc. vs Thendic Electronics case. I mean, will Judge Laznik accept Genesi as the new AmigaDE license holder and plaintiff of this case or will the closure of Thendic mean the annullment of the AmigaDE license?
Thendic-France : Comment 11 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Nov-2003 19:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (bbrv):
Fair enough.
Thendic-France : Comment 12 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 17-Nov-2003 19:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (samface):
Since the contract is an asset, and all assets would be transferred to Genesi, this would affect nothing but the name on the docket.

Do you think that Chryslers warrantys (their contracts) became nullified when it was bought by Mercedes?
Thendic-France : Comment 13 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Nov-2003 19:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
Hey everyone, look how dirty and cold hearted the AmigaInc camp is! Can't win by honest competition so they will say or do anything!
Thendic-France : Comment 14 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 17-Nov-2003 19:32 GMT
Good luck!
Thendic-France : Comment 15 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 17-Nov-2003 19:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Nate Downes):
I'm not a lawyer but I really wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you. You see, this seems to be the same problem that Haage&Partner bumped into when they assumed that their rights for distributing Genesis would automaticly include the rights for distributing AmiTCP. It's simply not that easy but if a lwayer corrects me, I stand corrected.
Thendic-France : Comment 16 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 17-Nov-2003 19:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (samface):
If you read the DE Agreement you will understand that Genesi is an "affiliated company" and thus shares the benefit of the Agreement equally. Nothing from Thendic-France is needed to insure this matter. Further, you should notice that Genesi was added as a plaintiff some time ago.

R&B
Thendic-France : Comment 17 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Nov-2003 19:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (samface):
Haage&Partner case is completely different. There H&P only licenced one part
but distributed it with another part which they haven't licenced (= didn't have
any rights).

Genesi however gets all assetes and rights they want transfered to them which
is of course always possible and quite easy as Thendic and Genesi both belong
to Raquel. I think I even read something in that contract (Amiga-Thendic) that
it is also valid for connected companies to Thendic and its products (see
definition part of the contract at the beginning).
Thendic-France : Comment 18 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 17-Nov-2003 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
@Anonymous (207.46.228.14)

"One company down, one to go..."

Well, anything more you'd like to say? Keeping those thoughts inside will only burn you up inside. A bit of communication here would go a long way to resolve those conflicts.

You know, these things can be worked out, resolved. Stop the war, make a settlement, move on.. and improve the situation.

Would you agree? ;)
Thendic-France : Comment 19 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Nov-2003 20:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Darth_X):
Sure, here are my complete thoughts on the matter:

1. Amiga Inc had a contract with Thendic France to port the DE to their devices
2. Bill Buck stages a corporate coup and fires all the leadership
3. Next appoints a bunch of losers who can't tell their balance sheets from their clutch plates as replacements
4. Company collapses, all assets and IP go to Bill Buck's company
5. Bill Buck uses what it got from Thendic to use the courts to force Amiga Inc to do a port of DE
6. Amiga Inc spends a lot of money doing this
7. Bill Buck refuses to buy the DE, says that technology has moved on
8. Amiga Inc finally collapses
9. Genesi buys Amiga inc's assets in the fire sale and becomes the new amiga inc

Have I missed anything?
Thendic-France : Comment 20 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 17-Nov-2003 20:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
"Have I missed anything?"

Reality ...
Thendic-France : Comment 21 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 17-Nov-2003 20:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
Yes, basically everything.

1. Amiga Inc. and Thendic Electronic Components GmbH signed an Agreement cooperatively.
2. Amiga Inc. refused to honor the Agreement and worse denied it publically.
3. Amiga Inc. was sued for non-performance.

Genesi is not buying any assets and frankly does not want them.

R&B
Thendic-France : Comment 22 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 17-Nov-2003 20:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
AInc has assets?
Thendic-France : Comment 23 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 17-Nov-2003 20:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Nate Downes):
Ok guys, forget this comment. It was me joking around too much.
Thendic-France : Comment 24 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 17-Nov-2003 20:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Nate Downes):
Nate, sorry to do this publicly, but that comment is not useful. Please avoid doing it again.

R&B
Thendic-France : Comment 25 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Tipu on 17-Nov-2003 20:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Nate Downes):
Things such as patents and trademarks are called assets. Not just offices and computers. Admittedly, it appears, they own neither of the two....
Thendic-France : Comment 26 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by stumpy on 17-Nov-2003 20:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (bbrv):
LOL @ Downix

How does it feel to be bitch slapped?!?!?!

LOL!!!
Thendic-France : Comment 27 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Nov-2003 21:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (bbrv):
Wow.

Bill, that single comment of yours just pushed up my opinion of you a few notches.

I apologise for my flippant comments.

@Nate: ouch!
Thendic-France : Comment 28 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 17-Nov-2003 21:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Anonymous):
Don't worry, I bitchslapped myself after I realized how petty that sounded.
Thendic-France : Comment 29 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Christoph Gutjahr on 17-Nov-2003 22:01 GMT
Why is this thread titled "Thendic-France"? What's the relationship between Pretory and Thendic-France (if any)?
Thendic-France : Comment 30 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 17-Nov-2003 22:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Christoph Gutjahr):
Christoph, Thendic-France SARL is the 100% owned subsidiary of Pretory SA.

R&B
Thendic-France : Comment 31 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 17-Nov-2003 22:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Christoph Gutjahr):
@samface, comment 15:

Technically, Chris Wiles didn't have the rights in the end days to distribute
AmiTCP *or* any Vapor products, after a history of non-payment of royalties.
Yet Haage & Partner were given the rights to NetConnect (AmiTCP + GUI + Vapor)
and Genesis (AmiTCP + GUI). The only thing Chris had real control over was
Genesis. The rights to AmiTCP were non-transferrable.

H&P were perfectly legally allowed to distribute those few GUI files that they
created for AmigaOS 3.9 - but using the AmiTCP/IP 4.x distribution files on
the same CD was bad.


@guy in the message above asking about relationship between Pretory and Thendic:

As I understand it - and I could be slightly off centre here - Thendic were
involved in making certain devices for Pretory. That is to say, they were a kind of "hardware branch" of Pretory. Pretory were a security company, so
you can imagine this involved such things as surveillance cameras (remember
ComCam?)

=Neko=
Thendic-France : Comment 32 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Nov-2003 22:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Nate Downes):
@Nate:

Yeah, about 5 seconds worth, judging from the timestamp on the posts :)

Have you seen "Evil Dead II"? That's what I imagined you doing...
Thendic-France : Comment 33 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Mithalas on 17-Nov-2003 22:55 GMT
@bbrv

Are you going to be putting an offical press release on genesi.lu?

--Mithalas
It's time to rethink everything....
Thendic-France : Comment 34 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 17-Nov-2003 22:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Mithalas):
About Pretory, no. They are not related. About Thendic-France when it is done, yes perhaps.

R&B
Thendic-France : Comment 35 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Van M. on 17-Nov-2003 23:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
Oh guys, we have Nostradamus himself among us (207.46.228.14)!
Thendic-France : Comment 36 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Oppressor on 18-Nov-2003 00:09 GMT
This is like whistling in the dark, isn't it? The news is reported by
BBRV themselves so that nobody else would have to find out, it's quickly
declared good news, and Genesi supporters are instantly nodding about
that it's good news, so that it all makes me suspicious about being not
entirely good news. Thendic being a 100% subsidiary and finally free
to move into bankruptcy all on their own? Sorry for speculating, but
it's BBRV driving attention to this issue, and I'd say they are biased
at least :)
Thendic-France : Comment 37 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 18-Nov-2003 00:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Oppressor):
Yea, your right. They should have said that everything is on scedule and rockin at Pretory, and that they took the phones off the hook because of wardialing, they changed offices to be closer to customers, they're waiting for financing, they're selling off some old furniture, oh and the employees should just keep working and their paychecks might be a little delayed, but nothing to worry about.

Because that would be the right way to handle it, right?
Thendic-France : Comment 38 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2003 01:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (T_Bone):
A bankrupcy is never good news, especially if it's your parent company that's goes down in flames. I'm sure all of Genesi upper management are in full damage control now, making sure that their part doesn't get dragged down too.

That said, I wonder what really did happen, why did a company that was seemingly doing OK just implode. Hey Rich, if you're reading this, I believe your services are needed here ;)
Thendic-France : Comment 39 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 18-Nov-2003 01:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (T_Bone):
T-Bone,

Maybe someone should have sent a pizza ; }
Thendic-France : Comment 40 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 18-Nov-2003 02:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Anonymous):
> A bankrupcy is never good news,

Wrong. Being broke? That's never good news. Not making any money? That's never good news. Bankruptcy simply solves that problem, and allows all involved closure to the best ability of the assets left. Bankruptcy is a SOLUTION to a problem.
Thendic-France : Comment 41 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 18-Nov-2003 03:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (greenboy):
> Maybe someone should have sent a pizza ; }

I havent had very good luck with pizza sending. The one we sent Amiga didn't get eaten, then the one I was going to send Bernd (around the time I bought Amithlon) never even got sent cause his girlfriend can't eat cheese :D
Thendic-France : Comment 42 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 18-Nov-2003 03:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (T_Bone):
You can always send me pizza.

Pepperoni and Tomato is appreciated. 8)
Thendic-France : Comment 43 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by John on 18-Nov-2003 03:32 GMT
Has Genesi scammed Amiga users? No

Has Amiga Inc scammed Amiga users? Yes

Says it all.
Thendic-France : Comment 44 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Targhan on 18-Nov-2003 04:01 GMT
I am at a loss for words. My heart goes out to anyone who may have lost their job through no fault of their own. I have been there before, and sincerely never want to experience that again.
Thendic-France : Comment 45 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 18-Nov-2003 06:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (T_Bone):
@T_Bone

For someone who is normally pretty cynical about anything that moves I find
your attitude here astounding ( and your claim on MooBunny that Genesi and Amiga Inc
are only competitors in the paranoid minds of Fleecy and Bill McE ).

RVBB coming on here and informing everyone of what had gone on was a good move,
it allowed them, if they wanted, to set the spin on the story from the very start. Then
we have a series of plaudits re-assuring the watcher that its a "good thing" (TM).

Of course making a clean break is preferable to excuses however thats not that
guys point. The subjective part, played by the usual suspects, is what makes
this guy suspect that it might not all be a bed of roses.

Me? Im keeping an open mind on it, if it had just been RVBB posting without the plaudits
piling in I wouldn't have any doubts that it was unfinished business that is helpful
to have behind them.

However the pattern of the usual suspects posting a series of comments immediately
after telling everyone its a "good thing" ( it was observed if you say something more
than thrice people believe it OK? So people should believe on schedule and rockin'
right ? ) several time is a bit suspicious and makes me think there might be
side effects.

Flip the coin over, put the cast of characters that you clearly despise in the
same position. What do you think now? In fact, make it an announcement by the
Democrats ;-)

Dave.
Thendic-France : Comment 46 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2003 06:56 GMT
http://www.humanite.presse.fr/journal/2003-04-15/2003-04-15-370369
http://www.liberation.com/page.php?Article=145524
http://securite3.monblogue.com/commentaires/securite3/10423
Thendic-France : Comment 47 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 18-Nov-2003 06:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (DaveP):
DaveP wrote:
> RVBB coming on here and informing everyone of what had gone on was a good move, it allowed them, if they wanted, to set the spin on the story from the very start.

It's an accepted practice in business and politics, etc., if there's potentially controversial news or something that's apt to be misunderstood or misportrayed, to deliver the news yourself rather than go into quiet mode and let everyone else interpret the news to themselves and each other. From a cynical view this is putting the first spin on the story; but it's also being upfront about things.

> The subjective part, played by the usual suspects, is what makes this guy suspect that it might not all be a bed of roses.

I don't know why the fact that Genesi staff or Pegasos users or whoever chimed in would make the initial post any less credible. As far as I know they're just speaking based on what they know, or giving a personal opinion. There's no prearranged PR effort here as far as I know. Is it conspiracy theory time once again? ;-)

> Flip the coin over, put the cast of characters that you clearly despise in the
same position. What do you think now?

It's pretty much impossible to simply slip those characters into this position because the contexts (both external circumstances and the self-created situations/dilemmas) are so different. *If* that "cast of characters" *didn't* have a history of deception and obfuscation, and released information like bbrv's post here, then I'd be inclined to take it at face value, too.

-- gary_c
Thendic-France : Comment 48 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 18-Nov-2003 07:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (DaveP):
DaveP,

Of course it's not a good thing. It has cost a lot of time and money and doubt and frustration to come out the other end of this little voyage through local apocalypse and make the best of it.

I would guess that the word you search for is not really "plaudit", but "pundit". I could be mistaken. But hey - one may hear pundits issuing plaudits, so there IS some connection ; }

Actually, if I hear some of "the usual suspects" making plauditory oratory, as is so often the case with your side as well, I expect it has something to do with faith that in spite of mountain problems there is someone with good abilities and dedication working at them, making them into passable molehills. We'll see in due time who is who if we can't already.

Anyway, like any other thread with a capital G, H or A in it, I'm sure we'll continue to hear from the usual suspects from either side of the fence (you always seem to be there): some who aren't so noted for tons of posts, some who are, some who can be counted on to find nails when they think some Pine Box pounding might be possible, some who aren't so zealous. Oh, and of course there will even be all those guys who still haven't figured out how to have their own nicks yet, or have abandoned them for the Greater Common Wood ; }

<-- greenboy ---<<<<    weekly post (redwood)
Thendic-France : Comment 49 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2003 07:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (bbrv):
LOL!

Now that was a nice public performace...Do you think you can fool the community that easally in order to gain some sympathy?
Thendic-France : Comment 50 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2003 07:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (DaveP):
Agreed. Remember, Bill Buck used to be in the US Army, I know (from a friend who used to be a soldier) that those guys get taught the basics of propaganda for wartime use. I had to laugh at the transparent little game between him and downix:

"AInc have no assets!"
"Now son, you should not say things like that"
"Aw, I'm sorry, paw!"
"See folks? we're good, decent folk, here at Genesi (have some apple pie, son) Can't we all, just get along?"
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