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[Events] What we saw at SoCal...ANN.lu
Posted on 23-Nov-2003 20:34 GMT by bbrv147 comments
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After the Pegasos of course, the big story at SoCal was Novell and IBM. :-D "IBM will support SuSE and what will be left of Redhat," said the leading IBM rep at the Show. In the meanwhile, the Novell booth brought a air of credibility to what was the largest show other than CES that we have participated. Novell has assembled a complete Linux stack. People want it. Novell is providing it. If anyone is missing the "Linux is coming to a Desktop Near You" story, they should even avoid WrongPla.net, much less ANN.

The time is NOW.

If you are a Developer and you have something to offer get on the bandwagon of your choice (or both). The Linux Desktop *is* the Trojan Horse for this Community. Don't miss the boat! And, BTW, let us be bold enough to suggest that IBM will very likely be selling the Pegasos one day (or something like it) as a thin client in a total system package. Why the Dell not?! IBM sells services. When they sell an enterprise network to a corporate customer they often continue to “own” the entire system. The customer contracts for the entire package. IBM insures that everything is working and that the latest and greatest is there running as it should. Why should IBM continue to sell a PC when they begin to promote a Linux desktop? First, they throw out Windows (replaced with Linux) and then the Intel-based CPU/PC can be replaced with a PowerPC based system that runs on an IBM CPU. All IBM is doing is connecting the dots from client desktop to enterprise network and ultimately to the "GRID" that IBM now extols (the Matrix is coming!).

And, while we are at it beyond the "Matrix" -- not only are the major game consoles moving to the PowerPC, it is also the CPU found in the most advance DTV receivers (satellite or terrestrial). The latest one from Disney is called MovieBeam. Imagine a Super TiVo (PowerPC too BTW) using an expanded version of AmiNetRV (radio and video) and all integrated into a MPlayer-like UI that would do to a TV set what MP3 did to music. Now, that is really any show any time. TV signals digital or analogue can be integrated, but the Internet is the foundation of the future in this arena in our opinion. While we are at it since that MP3 player will not play high fidelity sound why not use that 24/7 broadband Internet connection to get that home stereo equipment back in the game too!

Final note: Pegasos II sales have passed the 1500 unit mark. These are the combined sales based on Reseller, Internet, and institutional/corporate orders. Congratulations to Thomas Knäbel and Gerald Carda. Your years of hard work and dedication are paying off and thanks to you we have the fundamental ingredient required to march forward to our future.

R&B :-)

P.S. This week "will be IBM week." ;-)

What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 51 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 12:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Anonymously):
Yes, thanks "Anonymously" ...

You are right. Here is the information link:

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/News/2003/2

It is nice to be included with the other PowerPC platform suppliers...;-)

And, BTW, here is the Genesi Linux Guru, Sven Luther, hard at work the night before the SoCal Linux Expo after a long flight from Frankfurt:

http://www.pegasosppc.com/images.php?f=image&id=909

Sven had the latest releases of Debian, SuSE, Mandrake, Gentoo and of course PegXLin all running for the Expo. Knoppix runs now too, as well as YDL.

It was a good show and there was plenty of interest in the Pegasos and incidently MorphOS. :-D

R&B
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 52 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 24-Nov-2003 12:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (bbrv):
My all that software. I am sure that now its running on PPC it will be buffer overflow free and bugproof (TM-BBRV). (And it never came from X86, no no no no no no no )

Sigh.

AdmV
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 53 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 24-Nov-2003 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (samface):
@samface

> No, not much has changed despite certain distro's attempts at making easy
> install procedures and so forth.

Utter and complete BS. Linux and in particular the user-friendliness aspect have changed beyond recognition in the last two years. Not just the install procedures, but configuration and even software packaging too, not to mention the major WMs.

You'd have to be a moron not to notice.

> As soon as you start to configure the OS itself and install things that are
> not a part of the default installation, you're back at bashing those config
> files in /etc, following endless loops of dependencies, compiling your own
> kernel, etc.

That doesn't sound like any of the user-friendly distros I've seen, like SuSE or Mandrake. In fact, it sounds exactly like things were two years ago, not now.

Frankly, samface, I think that you should refrain on commenting about Linux, since you're clearly utterly clueless. In fact, I'd have to look at your comments as classic FUD.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 54 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Nov-2003 12:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (bbrv):
That is the same marketing speech about Linux that we've heard so many times before. Again, the leap from a multi-user, network and server based OS to a user-friendly desktop OS is HUGE. Furthermore, the advancements of Linux as a desktop OS doesn't look too good either for these two simple reasons:

1. It's developed by geeks for geeks, there is no *need* for a geek who is able to compile his own OS to spend several years of development for making his grandma able to use it (which would probably be dead by the time he is ready).

2. Most commercial investments in the Linux market is targeted at corporate use, home users are not willing to pay for the hassle of replacing their Windows installation with this giant hog of technological mumbo-jumbo much less need the advanced functionalities. Add to that, it won't even run their favorite software.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 55 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 24-Nov-2003 12:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (samface):
@samface

> I use Debian on my webserver as we speak, testing version.

Well, that explians it. Debian is great, but not even in picture if you're looking for a distro that's good for n00bs (that includes me, BTW) or one that scores high on user-friendliness.

Lindows is at the opposite end, but its a very weak distro and not worth looking at in serious terms. They talk a far better game than they play (which should sound familiar for this thread).

As myself and others have mentioned, try a real user distro, like SUSE 9.0 or Mandrake 9.2. Both have been addressing the user-friendliness aspect for a long time, and are mature distros giving a full and proper Linux system. SUSE is probably the more stable, while Mandrake are quicker to give access to bleeding-edge improvements. Both are far more stable than the average Windows installation.

If you want to mess with Debian, you have to be prepared to get your hands dirty, but it's hardly a typical Linux distro.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 56 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 12:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (samface):
<trying new approach>

...pssst Sammy, have a look:

http://www.novell.com/linux

...and this too:

http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/novell_suse.html

In fact, this was the key point made about the SoCal Linux Expo!

Again, beyond the Pegasos of course.

The Real Networks OpenHelix project was interesting too -- http://www.openhelix.org/

The Project Manager visted the Genesi Booth and as he was responsible for the MacOSX port he was very interested in the Pegasos. In fact he ordered one! :-)

R&B
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 57 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Nov-2003 13:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (DaveP):
Been there, done that. Do you people even know what user-friendly means?
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 58 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Nov-2003 13:03 GMT
I see.

So the focus now is on Linux, with MorphOS barely getting even a slim mention.

So rather than go Pegasos / MorphOS, the plan now is to try to sneak in on the over-hyped much-promised (but never delivered) Linux bandwagon and try to sell a few Pegasos boxes, whilst quietly dropping MorphOS.

Nice one, BBRV :-(

Oh well, at least we now know where you stand.


As for Linux being ready for the desktop (for non-geeks)? Yeah, right. I've got news for you - no, it isn't. It is slowly getting there, just as it has been slowly getting there for a very long time, and will continue to do for a very long time. But it ain't anywhere near there yet.


You want to prove otherwise? Go on then. Point me to a single CD or DVD installation which I can buy, stick in my generic PC (or PPC system if you prefer), switch on and have it install everything for me, pausing perhaps to ask me what name I want to give the machine.

If you can do that and make it equally trivially simple to update and to install additional easy-to-obtain software, THEN you'll be on the way to being ready.

So far, though, you fall over at step 1.


Besides, why all the fuss about getting a secure powerful easy-to-use OS running on a PPC system? Been there, done that. It's MacOS. Problem solved. And before you witter on about overpriced Apple systems, actually take a look at the prices. For the price of a bare Pegasos2 board with a 1GHz G4, you can buy a complete brand new 1GHz G4 eMac with display, RAM, hard drive, DVD / CDRW drive, keyboard etc etc etc. You were saying?
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 59 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 24-Nov-2003 13:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (samface):
Yes, clearly you don't.

Dave.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 60 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 13:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Anonymous):
Oh no, Anonymous 193.128.133.89!

Where have you been cowboy?!

Seen this:

http://www.morphos.net
http://mdc.morphos.net
http://www.morphzone.org

It WAS a Linux Expo!

...and we still managed to convince a few Linux adherents that MorphOS was really cool!

In the last example we gave about one of the next generation of Pegasos owners we mentioned that a Project Manager of Real Networks (as in *real* company) liked MorphOS and really liked the idea that he could run multiple operating systems.

Of course, we promote MorphOS every chance we can! :-D

In fact one of the Pegasos machines at the Expo had five different operating systems partitions configured.

Have we mention QNX yet? :-)

R&B
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 61 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 13:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (bbrv):
P.S. RUN WHATEVER YOU WANT!

(that is the point)
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 62 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Nov-2003 13:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (bbrv):
I can mention one computer that is able to run even more operating systems than your Pegasos, is cheaper, faster, and much more available; the PC!

Now isn't that amazing!
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 63 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Nov-2003 13:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (bbrv):
I don't know, Buck. That's an awful lot of talks about enterprise distributions of Linux with new revolutionary network solutions for corporate use. Again, where is the normal end-user in all this?
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 64 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Smith on 24-Nov-2003 13:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Bill Hoggett):
Well written points that I cannot really disagree with except I still feel that Linux needs something for people to switch but I can sympathise with your frustration at Windows (I have been there on many occasions! :))

I still don't see why the average user would want to switch. The key element of any acceptance of a new platform into the home will be games - Linux is somewhat behind on that front and retreating.

I don’t think the training cost is that great as newer versions of Windows need little re-training for the user and newer versions of Office are almost identical as MS tries to make more money for doing less.

What am doing!? I'm almost singing the praises of Wintel! I would love to see a really fast, well built easy to use and good-looking version of Linux that has superior office software, better email and web browsing tools and a fantastic selection of entertainment software. Show me where that Linux is then I'll take a look.

---
Sam
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 65 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 13:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (samface):
Actually you are amazing Sammy!

Here is our newest and *all-time* favorite SammySpammy:

" It was a reply rather than an initial statement. Think, you should be able to figure it out."

:roflmao:

If this was basebal -- "You're outta there!" -- back to the dugout Sammy!

R&B
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 66 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Coder on 24-Nov-2003 13:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (bbrv):
@bbrv
>Knoppix runs now too, as well as YDL.

But I want to run it also. But I cannot. The minute I can I expect a mail in my box. :-)

Coder
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 67 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Nov-2003 13:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (bbrv):
You see, BBRV, you are sending out mixed messages.

One second you are hyping Linux as The Next Big Thing[TM] (bigger even than Mr Lesnar? ;-) ] and that Linux is the way forward, and then the next minute you say you are pushing MorphOS.

Sorry, Bill, your enthusiasm is getting the better of you. You need to slow down, take a deep breath, THINK what you actually want to achieve, and THEN start talking, instead of flitting from 1 idea to another like a butterfly (absolutely no pun intended there!).


BTW, if I wanted to run 5 OSes on one cheap piece of hardware, I'd run them on a dirt cheap x86 box, which woul blow the Pegasos away in terms of performance at dthe moment, AND for a fraction of the cost I'm afraid. But like the vast majority of people, I don't have the need to run a dozen OSes on one system. I want my system to run the applications I need and quickly enough.
And no matter how nice Linux is, it's useless for a lot of my requirements (music synthesis/recording/processing - Linux does not have the software nor the basic functionality to do this - however, there werre some bloody good AmigaOS tools which did, and could do again via MorphOS. That's one example of why I am keeping an eye on how MorphOS/ Pegasos is coming along).
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 68 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 13:47 GMT
Editor's Note (from initial post in this thread):

If anyone is missing the "Linux is coming to a Desktop Near You" story, they should even avoid WrongPla.net, much less ANN.

Editor's Note II:

WrongPla.net (ANN) -- SAMMY NOT A VIRUS

Symantec issued an apology to ANN yesterday after the security software maker's AntiVirus Research Center issued an alert for a "widespread and lethal virus known to cause hair and brain loss" that turned out to be induced by the posts of Amiga enthsusiast Sammy Nordstrom. Symantec CEO John Thompson called it a "regrettable but understandable" mistake. ANN owner, Christian Kemp, accepted the apology and commented, "we love our Sammy. Without him we could not make the obvious any more than it is!" Sammy Nordstrom, when reached for comment could only remark, "Yes, I am a virus! I am! Yes, I am!..." In lieu of flowers, donations to restore Sammy to the real world may be made to the ANN Foundation or ANN PayPal Fund.

:-D
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 69 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Anonymous):
Hi Anonymous 193.128.133.89!

You are *missing* the point. :-) For what you need you do what you need to do! Go for it! You might not need or want a Pegasos. We are OK with that. Thanks for playing! Best wishes and good luck! Send us an email when you have a name!

...back to work on the other five zillion people in the world.

R&B
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 70 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Nov-2003 14:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (bbrv):
Eeeeeeeh... I'm sorry, but you really lost me there. What has Ben Hermans reply to Wayne's trolling in the thread about the release of the SDK for AmigaOS4.0 got to do with any of this? You missed my point completely. You see, you talk about the amazing feature about having support for multiple operating systems for your platform when there already is a platform with such abilities, nameley the home of Windows, which is perfect proof of my theory that such feature is a second prority to the normal home user. Then you reply with that completely irrelevant quote from me stating that another certain statement was a reply rather than an initiating statement. Please explain to me how your brain operates because it's a complete mystery to me.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 71 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 24-Nov-2003 14:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (bbrv):
More amusing than anything at bitterpla.net.

Dave.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 72 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Hunt on 24-Nov-2003 14:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (samface):
> Aren't you the one who said "how much longer is the average AmigaOne
> AMIGA user prepared to run Linux"?

Absolutely true. Thanks for making my point Sammy.

Pegasos users want to run any of the 14 existing Operating systems, including Linux. That is, in fact, our market and strength. It would be better to ask AmigaOne users if they are happy having no alternative but to run Linux?

Wayne Hunt
Genesi USA
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 73 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Nov-2003 14:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (bbrv):
Well, I'm sorry to spoil your fun but who said things had to be seen out of your point of view? How about replacing me with yourself, more people would laugh that way. :-P
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 74 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 24-Nov-2003 14:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (bbrv):
LOL! :-)
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 75 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 24-Nov-2003 14:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (samface):
I would like to replace you with an otter! Otters are cute! ;-)
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 76 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 24-Nov-2003 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (bbrv):
Hello Bill,

I mailed you, but you say very little, so I figure I will let others have a little peek and they can make up their minds.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=PPC+BUFFER+OVERFLOW

Some background for you.
http://www.netsys.com/openbsd-misc/2002/03/msg00182.html
http://www.netsys.com/openbsd-misc/2002/03/msg00187.html

Here is a copy of Daemon news which has release information about your
new
software package. Along with that it covers enough issues to show you
that
no OS is risk or problem free. Being virtually buffer overflow free
means
nothing. Anyone can claim their code to be so, and many do.

Then lastly, credibility:
http://www.webcrunchers.com/crunch/

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF8&q=Crunch+2B+phreak

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/story/0,3605,554523,00.html

Note taken fron the above article.
"It can also be programmed to do some pretty nasty things, should you
want
it to... like hack back! I feel sorry for the poor script-kiddie that
runs
into a CrunchBox defending an IP address. They are gonna be in for a
nasty
surprise!"

(This is not good. Even when defending your network, you don't want
your
network to go offensive. Its damn stupid.)

If you think that anyone with half a clue is going to buy this stuff
you're Off your rocker. If you expect me or people like me to entrust our networks then fair enough. I am sure you will find enough silly people who absorb your blurb without checking the details 'small print' aspects. But they are the people who get their networks exposed.

*Shruug*.

"IT Managers need to be able to tell exactly what happens on their
networks,
and why. The Guardian gives you a very high level of control, said Bill
Buck, of Genesi. "Most of the office and network infrastructure in use
are
x86 based, and most of the machines that are at risk of compromise are
x86
based as well. It is safer to run a different processor platform that
is not
susceptible to the common buffer overflow exploits that are the main
entry
point for crack attempts."

Buffer overflows and exploits are software issues. The very same X86 stuff you port over to a your beloved PPC chip/platform is not immune and I grow tired of facing this FUD from people who should'nt be saying this rubbish in this day and age. Exchange my IP border security for a PPC system with a firewall created by an 'Ex' Hacker does'nt inspire me either. Anyone who believes that switching over to a PPC chip solves all their security issues misunderstands the threats they face by no small degree. It has far more to do with how people code on the software side, and people operating sensible, reasonable, intelligent policies on the operations side . You are more likely to have security issues from Social engineered cons and inside hostile users, but this does'nt excuse this kind of irresponsible bloody FUD you've laid out in this thread. You might take in the kiddies but its wearing a bit thin. Grow up and talk about these issues in at least a sensible way. If you dislike MS as much as you declare, can you try not to imitate the marketing bullshit PLEASE. We don't need to hear this rubbish. All I would like to see you produce is good stuff, not marketing horseshit.

The NETSYS comments above offer an insight in to what a few people thought about a firewall via your friendly 'ex' hacker. I am as unimpressed. Not the kind of character I want to entrust my boundaries to. That aside, congrats on the first sales of this unit.


AdmV
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 77 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 14:22 GMT
ANN Moderator Notes (Editor's Note #3)

<snip>

When someone suspects a poster has a Severe Learning Disabilities (SLD), a referral for a special education evaluation is made. A team, which includes the child’s parents, conducts the evaluation and decides if the child meets ANN eligibility criteria for special education. Each of the following criteria must be considered and met in order for the child to be determined to have a SLD.


1. A severe delay in thread posting achievement, AND
2. A significant discrepancy between intellectual ability and indications given online, AND
3. A processing deficit that is linked to the delay(s) in online discussion achievement and significant discrepancy.

The ANN Special Education team may not identify a poster as having SLD if the poster’s achievement problems are primarily the result of other disabilities, insufficient instruction, lack of English proficiency, or environmental, cultural, or economic disadvantage. Hair and brain loss should be also be thoroughly considered.

Posters with SLD can be educated using a variety of approaches including individual, small and large group instruction, but PEER PRESSURE works best. Collaboration between all thread participants is critical to the success of rehabilitating such individuals.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 78 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Nov-2003 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Wayne Hunt):
>It would be better to ask AmigaOne users if they are happy having no
>alternative but to run Linux?

Just like it would be better to ask what happened to the G4 card for the Pegasos I, or what happened to the still to be released and delivered Pegasos II? Seriously, Wayne. You really have no business in instigating another flamewar like that that, we know where you come from. Go back to praising your every-OS-except-the-ones-that-matters platform. Crap does not improve through multiplication, you know. What good does a multiple OS computer do if it doesn't run the OS I want? AmigaOS4 is coming to the AmigaOne, your transparent attempts at telling us otherwise is just that; transparent. Please spare us.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 79 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 24-Nov-2003 14:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Sam Smith):
@Sam

> Well written points that I cannot really disagree with except I still feel
> that Linux needs something for people to switch

It depends on which people we're talking about, but yes, there's room for improvement. Isn't there always though?

> but I can sympathise with your frustration at Windows (I have been there
> on many occasions! :))

Unlike a lot of people I don't slam Windows just for the sake of it, nor do I give up just because I come across a minor niggle. I've been using Windows for years after all, not even counting my job. However, this time the problem was almost terminal, or at least it was severely interfering with my ability to work on my PC.

> I still don't see why the average user would want to switch. The key
> element of any acceptance of a new platform into the home will be games -
> Linux is somewhat behind on that front and retreating.

It has changed tack on what has certainly been the Achilles' heel. Transgaming is now focusing on making Windows games available to Linux users with WineX, which is a smart move, but surely a temporary one.

Yes, gaming is where Linux has a serious weakness, but then gaming is where every desktop solution that isn't Windows has a serious weakness, including the Mac.

> I don't think the training cost is that great as newer versions of Windows
> need little re-training for the user and newer versions of Office are almost
> identical as MS tries to make more money for doing less.

You misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about re-training from one Windows version to another, but from one Windows-based solution to another. For instance, from Lotus SmartSuite to Microsoft Office or vice versa.

As for the one Windows version to another, the engineers and support staff often need re-training and many will need to be certified again. Anyone who's been involved in a Win NT to Win 2000 migration will know what I mean. If one is able to cope with the various flavour of Windows under the hood, one should be able to cope with Linux too.

> What am doing!? I'm almost singing the praises of Wintel! I would love to
> see a really fast, well built easy to use and good-looking version of Linux
> that has superior office software, better email and web browsing tools and
> a fantastic selection of entertainment software. Show me where that Linux
> is then I'll take a look.

In many of those areas Linux has caught up and even moved ahead, but not in all.

On my system, I can say that Linux is running a bit faster than Windows (not to mention being more stable).

The KDE desktop is unquestionably better looking than the normal WindowsXP themes, and far faster and more stable if we're talking Windows shell replacements like Talisman, LiteStep or DesktopX.

Office software you have a point with, even though KOffice and OpenOffice are making strides, but then you have CrossOver Office if you want to stick with the MS Office solution.

E-Mail clients are good enough for me, in the shape of K-Mail or Evolution. I find both faster and more configurable than Outlook, which has many good points but also many annoying restrictions.

Web Browsing works jolly well. Mozilla can use Shockwave and Flash plug-ins as well as the usual support for Java and JavaScript. If you're desperate enough to insist on IE, CrossOver Office can handle that too. There is always Opera if you prefer or Konqueror if you're into integration with the desktop.

Multimedia is good too, with a wide selection of codecs and players. I have generally found the players to be more reliable than the Windows ones, and complain less about codecs than WMP or PowerDVD.

Where Linux falls behind in in gaming and enterprise level development tools. There's nothing to compare to Dreamweaver or anything quite as comprehensive as Visual Studio. Borland's efforts have been of variable quality so far, and Adobe's support is almost non-existent. Linux does lack a really good PDF reader, for instance. Adobe's official offering is not only an old version, but dog ugly as Linux applications go. It's also seems quirky. If Linux needs work, it is in persuading companies like Macromedia, Adobe and Borland to support the platform or improve their efforts. The thing about Linux is that the half-hearted ports some of those companies have put out are made to look lame by the free alternatives, so no wonder sales fail to take off. If you're going to port to or support Linux, it needs to be done _properly_, not on the cheap.

Linux is making inroads, and at quite a pace. Many people who have never used Linux and probably wouldn't consider it have at least heard of it, something that would have been unthinkable a couple of years ago. Others who felt the learning curve was too steep for comfort then are happy to use it now. I guess I fall into that last category.

Make no mistake about it, Linux is growing and the "wave" BBRV keeps mentioning is real enough. Whether Genesi have what it takes to ride it or whether thay will be just flotsam drifting with the current is another question.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 80 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 14:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (samface):
Dear Sammy, how are you today! :-D

We have some milk and cookies for later. OK?! :-D

We wanted to chat with you today about Personal Computers. :-D

Can you say, "PC?" :-D Good!

PCs use x86 based CPUs. The originate from a big company from California called Intel.

Can you say Intel? :-D No?! Sounds too much like something else? OK, well. :-D

Can you say California? Some people say it is the "land of fruit and nuts." Are you from California originally? :-D

Anyway, let's talk about another kind of computer based on a different CPU! :-D

It is called a PowerPC! :-D

OK, that is enough for now! No hair loss today! Come back tomorrow and we will discuss why that makes computers different just like boys and girls, OK?!

:-D

Bye Sammy!

We love you!

:-D
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 81 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Hunt on 24-Nov-2003 14:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (samface):
> Please spare us.

Ok, let's add "talking to yourself" to the short list of abilities for Sammy.. :)
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 82 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by cecilia on 24-Nov-2003 14:40 GMT
while linux is not perfect, it certainly is useable. I know. I use it.
with the help of a friend i made my Dell (DUDE!) laptop multiboot with red hat8 and windows2000.
in linux i make web pages using Quanta Plus while I'm making images using The GIMP and looking at the pages in Opera. (I also have Opera on the windows side.)

the setup works fine for me, and i'm just an artist, not a geek or programmer or anything like a linux expert. this system is stable and i've never had a problem with it. as someone here said, once you set up what you need in linux, you never have to touch it again.

i wouldn't want to do anything like recomplile the kernel, but i understand the limitations and can live with them. anyway, it does what i want!

I also have WinUAE and run amiga programs when i need those. (Just in case anyone forgot about that :)

I just got a Pegasos 1 (pre-april) to play with and it certainly is fun - something windows has never been. there are alot of people working to make the Pegasos 2 (MorphOS) better. these things take time. if it seems to be taking too long, maybe you should help out?
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 83 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 24-Nov-2003 15:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (bbrv):
@BBRV

> http://ekkobsd.pegasosppc.com

When can we expect the site to be finished and therefore also officially going online?
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 84 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 15:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (samface):
Sammy, you are being a bad boy today! :-)

Here is the G4 card for the Pegasos I:

http://www.pegasosppc.com/g4card.php

You can visit Gunne's store if you want to see one working...;-)

Here is the Pegasos II:

http://www.pegasosppc.com/images.php?f=image&id=818

Again, visit Gunne. He will have one soon!

http://www.ggsdata.se

Then, click on the Pegasos II

:-)

R&B

P.S. Martin, they are improving the site daily and will be completely online when they get the Pegasos II. Just like Gunne!
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 85 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 24-Nov-2003 15:35 GMT
You guys are too hard on Sammy, I've grown rather fond of him. ann would not be half as exciting with out him...

I say, you go Sammy, get your message out there!!! What ever message that may be... ??? ;-)
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 86 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Nov-2003 15:36 GMT
>The Project Manager visted the Genesi Booth and as he was responsible for the>MacOSX port he was very interested in the Pegasos. In fact he ordered one! :-) Too bad he has to wait for the January production run since it's well known youwon't be able to get any of those first 500 units if you haven't ordered already.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 87 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 15:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Anonymous):
On no! Mr. Humbug Anonymous 130.94.107.149!

You are wrong too! :-)

Everyone that we want to have one of those 500 boards will! That is an advantage we have. :-D

Pegasos I owners, Developers, online buyers and Resellers will all get what they need. Our corporate and institutional buyers will have what they need and are happy to wait for the January shipment. :-D

Best regards,

R&B
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 88 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 24-Nov-2003 16:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Wayne Hunt):
Where are the boards? Has anyone received their PegII yet? Have the credit cards been uncharged, since the 30 day delivery promise has been exceeded (they were charged at order processing time).
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 89 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 24-Nov-2003 16:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (MIKE):
As Raquel and Bill stated already somewhere else (MorphOS-News.de, I guess), those who ordered got an e-mail explaining the delay and were offered a refund if they wish. IIRC, back then it had been only one person who canceled his order then and asked for getting his money back.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 90 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 24-Nov-2003 16:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (bbrv):
Yea, Samface definitely rides "The Short Bus", I would recommend that he wears a helmet at all times as well.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 91 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 24-Nov-2003 16:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Senex):
Well, it should be stated somewhere on the order site that they aren't shipping yet and the terms of pre-payment and refund collection. I didn't order one, luckily (Only because I know people involved and they advised against it at that time, if I expected it to be shipped to me within a week or so).
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 92 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Linux Sucks on 24-Nov-2003 16:44 GMT
>Linux is like nothing else in the history of computing—the most unique >innovation operating systems have ever seen. It's unprecedented integration. >It's an open source operating system. Owned by no single company or private >enterprise. Constantly improved by thousands of programmers. And it's getting >bigger. Last year, according to the IDC, shipments of servers running Linux >increased by 22.8%.

I hate Linux. Its bloaty, complex, inflexible and has crap geekish command name plc (policy). Look how much manyears have been put into it for just getting it on par with sucking Windows. Qnx is better. Beos may be way better, too. There may be tons of OSes out there that are better. Why replacing Windows with something thats less than optimum, !there wont be another replacement chance too soon!, if ever.
This is the usual dictatorship of mediocricity. Sad.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 93 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Stephane Desrosiers on 24-Nov-2003 16:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Senex):
> those who ordered got an e-mail explaining the delay and were offered a refund
> if they wish

When was that e-mail sent?
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 94 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 24-Nov-2003 17:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Stephane Desrosiers):
Don't know, I was just refering to the following comment at MorphOS-News.de by BBRV:

http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=549&page=15&cdir=2
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 95 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Gunne Steen on 24-Nov-2003 17:30 GMT
Hi

Yes, everybody visit my store around the 15th of December :-)

http://www.ggsdata.se

Samface, you are very welcome, would be nice to meet you, if we haven't done that before ?

And we will try to make some showcase somewhere also later...

Btw; Wayne, can you reach my webpage ?
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 96 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 24-Nov-2003 17:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (AdmV):
Without being too harsh, its time you put up or shutup. The P2 is late.
____________-

And a functional Aone with a running Aos4? I think that they are just TOO late.
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 97 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 24-Nov-2003 18:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Eva):
I think you misunderstand me, If I started on Amiga one's and OS4 you'd find it just as harsh.

Having said that, as far as I know, the A1 is being delivered. If only the same could be said for an OS thats years late, and underspec.

AdmV
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 98 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by Stephane Desrosiers on 24-Nov-2003 18:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Senex):
Thanks for the link Senex. :) I never did get the e-mail... (Not that I want to cancel and get a refund at the moment... But just want to make sure that my order isn't lost. ;))
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 99 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by IanS on 24-Nov-2003 19:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Matt Parsons):
Just like amigaworld.net wouldn't be half as exciting without drebben, eh matt?

Ian
What we saw at SoCal... : Comment 100 of 147ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 24-Nov-2003 19:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Stephane Desrosiers):
Hi Stephane, we just sent you an email!

We have no record of any order from you. Please try again!

:-)

R&B
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