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[News] Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release ANN.lu Posted on 04-Dec-2003 17:14 GMT by Nathaniel Downes 98 comments View flat View list Genesi today announced a new, PowerPC®-based, modular MicroATX mainboard release that brings flexibility and efficient processing power to performance-intensive applications, including desktops, workstations, servers, and communications products This latest MicroATX board is the most powerful and cost-effective hardware foundation for Genesi’s popular Pegasos platform, with over 1,000 users in 34 countries around the world. The new motherboard features an IBM PowerPC 750CXe microprocessor and supports industry standards software such as Open Firmware, and multiple operating systems including distributions of Linux and BSD. "Genesi's new PowerPC-based computer brings effective and flexible processing power to the desktop, low-end server, firewall and pervasive space at an affordable price," said Bill Buck, CEO of Genesi. Looking forward, Mr Buck also revealed that Genesi would be working closely with IBM to release a 64-bit Pegasos workstation in 2004, based on the new IBM PowerPC 970 microprocessor. “Today’s Pegasos release is a starting point that will enable all the operating systems developed for the PowerPC environment to begin to move in this direction with confidence and purpose," he explained. The new Pegasos Platform is also the core for Genesi’s first commercial product designed to support the increasingly-important security infrastructure requirements of Fortune 1000 companies and large institutions. The Pegasos Guardian provides: border protection of networks; proactive protection of network assets; and logging and auditing of suspicious network traffic. “IT Managers must know exactly what is happening on their networks, and why,” said Buck. “The Guardian gives you a very high level of control and the new MicroATX board provides the performance platform for them to achieve this.” Choice of the PowerPC environment enhances the security that Guardian offers: “Much of the office and network IT infrastructure in use today is x86-based,” explained Buck. “The Guardian runs on a different processor platform and is not as susceptible to the common buffer overflows that are the main entry point for security breaches.” Any element of security begins with people, procedure and enforcement, but with tools such as the Guardian IT Managers can audit and build their own code. Customers need a total security posture, and this is one component of a total security system. Genesi developed the Guardian with partners ShopIP (www.shopip.com) and Diginexus (www.diginexus.com). The interface design and border-level protection is based on the acclaimed ShopIP Crunchbox. Proactive protection is based on the security scanning features of Nessus (www.nessus.org) and the internal invisible IDS scanning features were developed and contributed by Diginexus. Buck added, “this collaborative effort is an example of the partnerships we expect to develop in the months ahead and indicative of the many and varied potential uses for an open, powerful and efficient hardware platform.” “IBM has worked closely with Genesi and its partners to ensure that the Pegasos platform can be configured to cover the rich variety of applications over multiple operating systems that Genesi and its partners are developing,” said Ray Bryant, Director PowerPC Products at IBM Microelectronics. “The integration of the IBM PowerPC 750CXe offers developers further opportunities to extend Pegasos’ use into the evolutionary path we have chartered for the PowerPC.” Based on industry standards, such as Open Firmware, the Pegasos supports multiple operating systems including varieties of Linux and BSD. The Pegasos platform also comes with Genesi’s own non-UNIX, Quark-based MorphOS. Recent releases supported on the Pegasos include OpenBSD 3.4 and Debian-Installer Beta 1. Buck added, "in the meanwhile, the strategic value of moving to a Linux Desktop is becoming increasing clear and a migration to Linux has begun. Every major commercial or non-commercial version/distribution of Linux on the market today runs on the Pegasos, including SuSE and the Novell® Nterprise Linux Service package. Getting on the network with the Pegasos Guardian and on the desktop with the Pegasos, now and in the future with the PowerPC 970, places Genesi at the forefront of these major market developments." Genesi has served the computer hobbyist since the first Beta release of the Pegasos in 2002. Trialed and tested by over 1000 users in 34 countries, enthusiasts have configured the Pegasos in variety of fashions with over a dozen different operating systems. The Pegasos was awarded the Amiga Award 2002 by Falke Media Verlag and recently, the Pegasos was acclaimed as the future home of the Linux desktop by German Linux site PPCNUX. The Pegasos-Guardian will make its public debut with ShopIP and Diginexus at Infosecurity 2003, at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in New York, December 8-11, Booth 126 and be distributed by Pegasos Resellers worldwide through the IBM Global Solutions Directory. Genesi's "Ready for IBM Technology"-validated Pegasos systems signal the advancement of the IBM 750CXe PowerPC microprocessor family into the broader global marketplace for embedded industrial controls, military, multimedia, consumer electronic appliances, blade servers, thin client systems, storage, networking, firewalls, and communication applications. With leading edge CPU bus speed capabilities and enhanced AGP, PCI-X, SDRAM and DDR support, the combination of the Marvell Discovery II chipset and IBM PowerPC 750CXe processors offers a most desirable solution to the performance-intensive applications marketplace. Genesi is an IBM Business Partner and carries the Ready for IBM Technology mark on five of its products, the Pegasos Guardian, Pegasos, PegXLin, MorphOS, and OpenBSD for Pegasos. The basic Pegasos featuring the IBM PowerPC processor can be purchased online for 299 Euros at http://www.pegasosppc.com while the Pegasos-Guardian is priced between 5000 and 15000 Euros depending on the configuration and the associated service contract. Genesi is based in Luxembourg and can be found on the web at http://www.genesi.lu. Details on the Pegasos Guardian are presented at http://www.pegasosppc.com/guardian.php Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 51 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Ossranger on 05-Dec-2003 11:02 GMT In reply to Comment 50 (Álmos Rajnai): Even the new Amiga's emulate an Amiga. This is pedantic nitpicking. If I'm running AmigaOS4 under AmigaOnLinux on an AmigaOne, is it an Amiga? Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 52 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Anonymous on 05-Dec-2003 11:08 GMT In reply to Comment 50 (Álmos Rajnai): > This point of view turns a simple PC into an Amiga Yes! Although most tend to say "fast" and "cheap" at this place because "simple", let's face it, does not really make sense. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 53 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Neko on 05-Dec-2003 12:46 GMT In reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous): The Guardian comes with automatically updating malicious code detectors and a service contract. It also has proprietary code which enables it to outclass a mere OpenSource home-built system. What you're paying for is a gigabit ethernet firewall which is astoundingly intelligent and low-power to save electricity bills. A 24/7 box is going to suck juice, not so with a Pegasos!! The products offered by ShopIP, and now Genesi in partnership, really are the best in the business. It's Captain Crunch for God's sake! STEVE WOZNIAK MADE A QUOTE ON THE FRONT PAGE! And €5000 for the basic product is dirt cheap if you look at the alternatives (which are x86 based, use a lot of power, and don't protect as well, and are more expensive). There are the integrated boxes like those made by Watchguard (http://www.watchguard.com) - you want to look at the Vclass stuff. The V80 is $8500. The high end V200 box is $60,000. And they're more VPN-style solutions. Yuk. Guardian is a perimeter defense box, it sits in front of your network and stops malicious code and attacks from outside influences from getting through. That means not even letting virus spam mail hit your mailserver. You're talking about the competition (low-power, high performance) being Sun Cobalt hardware or Blade servers (since SPARC is a little more conservative with juice) but as far as I'm aware.. Sun don't do them in a "ready made firewall" configuration. You have to go grab some extra software etc. Of course Genesi are rumoured to be getting into the Blade market too ;) =Neko= Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 54 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Neko on 05-Dec-2003 12:55 GMT In reply to Comment 35 (takemehomegrandma): Only 100 are OFFICIALLY earmarked, first-come-first-serve. Bill explained this back in August/September in a press release. http://www.genesi.lu/press_20030906.php See point 1. Any more will be done on a "board-by-board" basis, production of Pegasos II boards will be ramped to sell to the real world (batches of 1000s) and a small quantity will be pulled away from those batches to serve individual upgrade users. That means, basically, if you want the upgrade deal, all 600 or so G3 owners can upgrade, but only 100 can do it IMMEDIATELY, the rest will be on the back of production for other orders and other markets. That means, even more simply, that only 100 G3 upgraders will be happy this Christmas, the rest will be happy after we give IBM the rest of their boards, and ShopIP the rest of their boards, and produce the rest from the 1500 boards already sold.. =Neko= Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 55 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Álmos Rajnai on 05-Dec-2003 13:04 GMT In reply to Comment 51 (Ossranger): Doing WHAT? AmigaOS4 running on AmigaOnLinux? What are you talking about? Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 56 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Álmos Rajnai on 05-Dec-2003 13:09 GMT In reply to Comment 52 (Anonymous): If you were using emulators, you will stuck to AmigaOS3.x, there will be no evolution at all. Amiga is not stady anymore, it is moving. I know some of the people a nostalgic emulation is enough, but not for me. I am looking for new possibilities, features, etc. This IS what Amiga is for now. Ok, I will quit for now, this news item is not about Amiga anyway. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 57 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by bbrv on 05-Dec-2003 13:58 GMT In reply to Comment 54 (Neko): Neko...:-) I. What this Press Release is and is not. II. The Pegasos Guardian There are some who will read this and will find fault in as many issues as possible. This message is for the rest of the readers. :-) The Press Release is for a market of potential Pegasos owners outside of this community. It is found on our site and it will age there as a historical reference to those potential owners, and later to those who may have an investment interest in the Company. This release was fully vetted through both the management, legal and PR staff of IBM in Europe and the USA. 1. The Pegasos is a step in the evolution of a platform and a CPU. IBM supplies the CPU; Genesi the platform. The 970 is next. Genesi is on the early release schedule. IBM will supports Genesi's effort to have a 970 Pegasos on the market in 2004. Marvell will too by the way. This should provide confidence to Developers and existing application suppliers that the Pegasos has an expanding opportunity. 2. Read this sentence: “IBM has worked closely with Genesi and its partners to ensure that the Pegasos platform can be configured to cover the rich variety of applications over multiple operating systems that Genesi and its partners are developing,” said Ray Bryant, Director PowerPC Products at IBM Microelectronics." Multiple operating systems! The Linux Desktop is the current rage. Why would IBM have an interest in anything else? Could there be a bigger plan here? Please read up on this part of IBM: E&TS System Solution Business About the Guardian... As we see it a good portion of buffer overflow exploits are targeted toward the x86 processor instruction set. There still are ones for other processor platforms, and PowerPC is one of them, as is SPARC. However, the best way to examine buffer overflow exploits and do so with minimal chance of harm is to provide inspection from a non-x86 platform. Using PowerPC does not completely mitigate the risk of a buffer overflow. Rather, it provides a platform on which a good portion of exploit code cannot run, since the amount of crackers targeting PowerPC platforms is much smaller than the set trying x86. Nevertheless, PowerPC uses a machine code (instruction-set architecture) that is very different from x86 machine code, there is very little chance (zero chance, for all practical purpose) that an x86 exploit would do anything but crash whatever program absorbed it, even if the PowerPC was running the "same" OS and software: they are just different. There was a further issue that the operating system might mix instruction and data spaces. In the PowerPC architecture code and data are in different memory spaces and there are separate instruction and data caches. Thus, it is much easier to isolate changes to data from changes to code. In other words, due to the separate (effective) address spaces, it is much easier to make code immutable, while allowing for full access to the full data space. The Guardian team has come up with a way to avoid the confusion of instruction and data spaces interfering with each other. As a nearly any system administrator will tell you, there is no magic bullet for security solutions. You have to have an interlocking platform of policy, procedures, and enforcement (of policy and procedures). This has spurred the use of Open Source in security over the years in systems, since it allows a way to audit the systems via the code they run. We realize there are many system administrators that are that paranoid. Providing the customer with the source code to the system does two things: 1. This allows the customer to audit the code. 2. It also allows the customer to build on the code. However, there is also a learning curve for these products that is very high, and even experienced system administrators can get easily confused with these products. This product provides a way of reducing the time needed to set up and configure a firewall for a network that provides more than just the basic features. This product also provides for detection and filtering of malicious traffic, and can be custom-configured for the network. The use of Open Source tools also provides multiple integration paths through both the Open Source and commercial channels, meaning that with customization, it should be possible to include this as part of a total security system/posture. The choice of OpenBSD also allows for a platform that has been specifically audited for buffer overflows and race conditions, out in the open. Code from this product and its offshoot projects such as OpenSSH are used in multiple commercial products. Mitigation cannot take place in one place, it has to occur at multiple levels, and we consider this to be one level. There is no way to eliminate buffer overflows. However, there are steps as part of a total security plan that can be taken to include this as part of a security process. This is only one part of the total security solution and posture that a company can adopt. Firewalls and IDSs are only one part of your total protection measure. PowerPC is not just a one-step band aid. It is a starting point. Customers need a total security posture, and this is one component of it, providing border-level or internal protection as a component of a security system, not the system itself. In terms of competitive products in the market (in the USA), the Guardian's pricing and offering levels are VERY competitive. Any discussion to the contrary is a indication of market ignorance. No more time for this today! :-) R&B Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 58 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 05-Dec-2003 16:13 GMT In reply to Comment 57 (bbrv): "In terms of competitive products in the market (in the USA), the Guardian's pricing and offering levels are VERY competitive. Any discussion to the contrary is a indication of market ignorance." The World wants to be fooled, ok - good luck. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 59 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Ann on 05-Dec-2003 17:29 GMT In reply to Comment 53 (Neko): The products offered by ShopIP, and now Genesi in partnership, really are the best in the business. It's Captain Crunch for God's sake! STEVE WOZNIAK MADE A QUOTE ON THE FRONT PAGE! Can you point me in the direction of a news release by shopIP? Can't seem to find any. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 60 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Ann on 05-Dec-2003 17:35 GMT In reply to Comment 57 (bbrv): reply to BBRV "The Press Release is for a market of potential Pegasos owners outside of this community. Then why are you posting this here? How many amiga users can use this new hardware? Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 61 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 05-Dec-2003 18:15 GMT In reply to Comment 59 (Ann): Here is some insight I guess: http://www.deadly.org/article.php3?sid=20020301234750 Quote "crunch claim he gave out eval units last summer. Last summer he didn't even have product that worked. Maybe he have something now, I don't know, but crunch and the man he is working for have ripped off so many people, and told so many lies, I don't know what to say. he sound nice, but I don't trust anything he says anymore." Sounds vaguely familiar? :) Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 62 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by _ on 05-Dec-2003 18:55 GMT In reply to Comment 31 (hammer): of course buffer overflows also are possible/common with other OS' than x86-based ones - but most of the exploits simply do target the x86 architecture (if not just Windows/x86, anyway) Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 63 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Gregg on 05-Dec-2003 19:01 GMT In reply to Comment 61 (Kolbjørn Barmen): > Quote "crunch claim he gave out eval units last summer. Last summer he > didn't even have product that worked. Maybe he have something now, I don't > know, but crunch and the man he is working for have ripped off so many > people, and told so many lies, I don't know what to say. he sound nice, but > I don't trust anything he says anymore." > Sounds vaguely familiar? :) Indeed - I'm sure we're all bored with the incessant semi-literate rantings of anonymous cowards. If you read a little further, you'll discover that it is all, in fact, Bill Clinton's fault. Amazing what these people can dig up that is otherwise hidden from simple folk like you or I, eh? Gregg Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 64 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by _ on 05-Dec-2003 19:04 GMT In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous): "always listen to experts - they tell you, what can't be done and why. then do it" (unknown) Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 65 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Neko on 05-Dec-2003 19:17 GMT In reply to Comment 59 (Ann): The guys from ShopIP were at Amiwest 2003 on the Genesi stand. So.. for people there who didn't see this announcement coming, looks like you weren't paying enough attention :) Why do you need to see a press release from DigiNexus or ShopIP? We're partners in the project. Are you trying to find out if we're lying? Why would we do that? (you can mail Steve at ShopIP any time you like and ask him about Genesi..) =Neko= Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 66 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 05-Dec-2003 19:30 GMT In reply to Comment 63 (Gregg): It was a joke, I saw this quote and couldnt let it rest :) Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 67 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by bbrv on 05-Dec-2003 19:50 GMT In reply to Comment 60 (Ann): :-o ...because we want to take some of you from here to THERE! :-D Are you coming?! :-D R&B Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 68 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by BrianK on 05-Dec-2003 20:11 GMT In reply to Comment 38 (Anonymous): Small problem with that idea: unless you're referring to AMD64, all 64 bit CPUs are *way* more expensive than their 32 bit counterparts. -- Last I saw Genesi's boards and IBM were running 970/G5 machines not AMD64 bit machines. -- On a side note, I don't know where you are getting that AMD64bit CPU's are way more expensive then their 32bit counterparts. Check out www.pricewatch.com and you'll see Athlon 64 3200 for $389, Intel 3.2Ghz Pentium IV $377. I guess I don't consider 3% more as *way* but some might. If people have problems buying an $800 AmigaOne, what about a $1400 AmigaOne64? -- $800 for an AmigaOne G4/800Mhz with a couple of upgrades for the future as they will at some point stop making the G4 or $1,400 for an Amiga G5/2Ghz with a faster bus, faster memory, and better upgradeability as the G5's are just rolling out? I'd opt for the $1,400. --- But, really couldn't we have both for a while? Dump the G3 only make G4's and work on rolling out the G5. So, those who want less expensive systems can take the $800 one and those concerned about future upgradeability and speed will take the 2x faster machine? Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 69 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 05-Dec-2003 21:55 GMT In reply to Comment 67 (bbrv): :-D Dude, if we would have wanted to leave "here", we would have done so years ago! X-D Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 70 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Anonymous on 05-Dec-2003 21:55 GMT In reply to Comment 68 (BrianK): OK, you majorly misunderstood what I said: 1. 64 bit AMDs are *not* a lot more expensive than 32 bit AMDs. Other companies 64 bit CPUs *are* a lot more expensive than their 32 bit CPUs 2. Lots of people, not necessarily all of them blues trolls, say that $800 is too much to pay for a motherboard and CPU (especially when you can buy a more powerful intel/amd one for a lot less). These same people are *not* going to be a lot happier paying $1400 for a 64 bit motherboard and CPU (especially when you can by an Opteron or AMD64 for a lot less). Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 71 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Nate Downes on 06-Dec-2003 01:00 GMT In reply to Comment 70 (Anonymous): But this is untrue. A 64-bit MIPS CPU can cost as low as $12. There are 32-bit MIPS CPU's that cost upwards of $100 for certain applications. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 72 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Anonymous on 06-Dec-2003 01:01 GMT In reply to Comment 70 (Anonymous): it's still ridiculously expensive, but $1400 for that theoretical 2003-2004 tech level 64bit ppc970 mobo incl. cpu would still be goddamn hell of a lot 'cheaper' than $800 (or $500 when eyetech's not selling it) for a dysfunctional 1999 tech level 32bit pc133-on-a-sunny-day-but-with-datacorruption mobo incl. a ppc74xx cpu. so yeah, at least those who could imagine buying an 'amiga one' would be intrested in such a beast. at least if it someone sold it as 'an amiga' for 60% more... me? mmmmmmmmmm, amd64/opteron goodness! Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 73 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Anonymous on 06-Dec-2003 04:29 GMT In reply to Comment 71 (Nate Downes): Ah, but how much is the motherboard that that $12 CPU its into? :) Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 74 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Nate Downes on 06-Dec-2003 04:33 GMT In reply to Comment 73 (Anonymous): Usually $3 to $25. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 75 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Anonymous on 06-Dec-2003 04:37 GMT In reply to Comment 74 (Nate Downes): Really? wow. Now you got me interested :) Can you give me a name or something I can use for a web search? Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 76 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Alan L Buxey on 06-Dec-2003 09:23 GMT In reply to Comment 68 (BrianK): >Last I saw Genesi's boards and IBM were running 970/G5 machines 970/G5? really? Last I saw, Genesi were running G3 and G4 last I heard, Genesi said that they might have G5 next year at some point perhaps care to elucidate your beliefs further? ;-) alan Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 77 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Neko on 06-Dec-2003 10:14 GMT In reply to Comment 76 (Alan L Buxey): Not perhaps. Definitely. IBM are backing us on this. For all intents and purposes, with IBM making them, they're going to Apple first, and then Genesi, notwithstanding IBM's own products (but that's a different matter :) It is definitely possible to provide PPC970 desktops and workstations at a *significantly* lower price than Apple - the trick is to use commodity hardware, and not spend millions of dollars on your own chipset development and designing fancy cheese-grater or potty-cases, then you hardly have cause to charge your customers for it :) =Neko= Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 78 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Daniel Miller on 06-Dec-2003 12:37 GMT In reply to Comment 53 (Neko): Neko says: > The Guardian comes with automatically updating malicious code detectors > and a service contract. It also has proprietary code which enables it to > outclass a mere OpenSource home-built system. > What you're paying for is a gigabit ethernet firewall which is > astoundingly intelligent and low-power to save electricity bills. A > 24/7 box is going to suck juice, not so with a Pegasos!! I think this approach would be a good move for Genesi. There is money in the intrusion detection business, and one way to differentiate the Pegasos is indeed to observe that it does not guzzle power like supposedly cheap standard X86 boxes. Of course it's not really an "Amiga Community" type approach, which means it won't be much effective to market it this way on ANN or the other MorphOS and Amiga sites. But it's neat to hear about this all the same! Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 79 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Neko on 06-Dec-2003 14:38 GMT In reply to Comment 78 (Daniel Miller): > Of course it's not really an "Amiga Community" type approach, which means it > won't be much effective to market it this way on ANN or the other MorphOS > and Amiga sites. But it's neat to hear about this all the same! You saw the ShopIP guys and the CrunchBox at Amiwest, didn't you? Anyway, yep.. it's not really an Amiga Community thing. But if Amiga Community members want to come along for the ride, they are more than welcome: Genesi is far from the hype-machine people think it is, we're actually going somewhere no company from this market has gone for years. Other markets, and the real world. Of course if we kept it all a secret and told only the real world, the Amiga guys would feel left out, and not know the number of the Magic Genesi Bus Outta This Dump :) =Neko= Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 80 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Seer on 06-Dec-2003 14:57 GMT In reply to Comment 40 (coldfire): > First true 64 bit OS was years back. Ran on the DEC Alpha processor > which was a 64bit RISC processor. It was a UNIX OS that DEC made. Not sure if the OS was true 64 bit, but what does that have to do with marketing ;-) It's not like Joe Average cares about honest marketing.. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 81 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by BrianK on 06-Dec-2003 14:58 GMT In reply to Comment 70 (Anonymous): 'OK, you majorly misunderstood what I said: ' -- Thanks. '1. 64 bit AMDs are *not* a lot more expensive than 32 bit AMDs. Other companies 64 bit CPUs *are* a lot more expensive than their 32 bit CPUs.' -- The material I had read said that G5 processors are cheaper to buy then G4 processors for Apple. However, their additional costs went into the design and production of a new motherboard, the new case, etc. On top of that the newer products are usually allowed to have a greater markup as they are in a higher demand. The additional costs to design a new motherboard, would most likely be needed for Amiga and Genesi to move to the G5. However, IBM is supposedly coming out with their own G5 machines (Blade Servers and hopefully servers if not desktops) for Linux use (see http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1197492,00.asp and http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=psg1MIGR-53431). I'd love to see AmigaOS and/or MorphOS pair up directly with IBM for newer G5 machines. I'd think IBM could come in at a lower price/point then the current PPC options for an Amiga replacement. '2. Lots of people, not necessarily all of them blues trolls, say that $800 is too much to pay for a motherboard and CPU (especially when you can buy a more powerful intel/amd one for a lot less). These same people are *not* going to be a lot happier paying $1400 for a 64 bit motherboard and CPU (especially when you can by an Opteron or AMD64 for a lot less).' --- I agree $800 is quite a bit. You can get an Athlon64 3200+, MSI K8T Motherboard, and 1GB of RAM for under $700. Or you can get a PIV 3.2Ghz, MSI Motherboard, and 1GB of RAM for about $10-15 more then the Athlon system. Either system will smack the 1Ghz G4 system to the ground with it's processing power. However, until PPC systems become more wide spread they're not going to be able to be as price competitive. This is the reason I'd like to see Amiga and Morph pair with IBM if IBM makes PPC motherboards and pushes Linux for these machines I think they can make some decent inroads into the Linux user base. Hopefully, such a pairing would mean 2 things for Amiga, (1) More potential users for AmigaOS may translate into greater sales, (2) Lower cost hardware creates a lower cost point of entry and eases $$ spent for adopters and may translate into greater sales. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 82 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by BrianK on 06-Dec-2003 15:03 GMT In reply to Comment 76 (Alan L Buxey): '>Last I saw Genesi's boards and IBM were running 970/G5 machines 970/G5? really? Last I saw, Genesi were running G3 and G4' -- Yes Alan thank you for correcting the miswording of my sentence. Genesi/IBM appears to have G5 planned for the next boards according to the post. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 83 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Nate Downes on 06-Dec-2003 15:52 GMT In reply to Comment 75 (Anonymous): Best deal on a 64-bit MIPS machine: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3063946019&category=3591 Yep, a Nintendo 64, powered by the 64-bit R4300 processor. Used you can find for super-cheap. New, you can still get for under $40. (I'd note Nintendo still manufactures both the 64 and the SuperNES) Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 84 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by vortexau on 06-Dec-2003 16:09 GMT In reply to Comment 2 (hooligan/dcs): > > "over 1,000 users in 34 countries around the world." > That figure was done using what kind of math? :) The same time used in Musical-Chairs when, instead of chairs, you use Pegasos systems instead! Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 85 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Neko on 06-Dec-2003 17:48 GMT In reply to Comment 81 (BrianK): This discussion might make more sense if you stopped using the ludicrous $1400 price point. Whoever told you that any G5 machine Genesi made would be $1400? That's 3 times the cost of the Pegasos II G4. The Apple G5 boxes are barely 10% more expensive then their G4 predecessors. How did you transmute 10% more costly to produce into a 300%!! markup? =Neko= Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 86 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Neko on 06-Dec-2003 17:51 GMT In reply to Comment 83 (Nate Downes): Nintendo do NOT still produce either the N64 or the Super Famicom/Super NES. =Neko= Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 87 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by BrianK on 06-Dec-2003 18:41 GMT In reply to Comment 85 (Neko): Neko, Please see Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 38 Anonymous (131.107.3.79) on 05-Dec-2003 01:47:53 Where Anonymous entered the $1,400 price point into the discussion. See, if you read the entirity of the thread of the discussion things are clearer. As for 'The Apple G5 boxes are barely 10% more expensive then their G4 predecessors. How did you transmute 10% more costly to produce into a 300%!! markup? ' I didn't but once again if you go to post 38 you'll see how Anonymous used that in the discussion. See my post #81 you'll see $1,400 but it's in quotes you'll see that message was a response to post #70 again by Anonymous with the same IP.. That's because it's what the former person said and I was replying to their comments. Just as in this post I put your comments offset by single quotes. Thus, you'll probably want to rephrase your questions to Anonymous. Thank you. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 88 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Nate Downes on 06-Dec-2003 19:33 GMT In reply to Comment 86 (Neko): They did last time I checked, which was about 18 months ago. I thought it odd that Nintendo was still manufacturing the SNES. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 89 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by hammer on 06-Dec-2003 21:43 GMT In reply to Comment 46 (Anonymous): That was not the point, i.e. the deployment of PowerPC was not a guarantee from a Samba’s buffer overflow (flawed in the programming structure). Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 90 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Nate Downes on 07-Dec-2003 01:08 GMT In reply to Comment 89 (hammer): And why are you running Samba on a firewalling device? Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 91 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2003 06:08 GMT In reply to Comment 77 (Neko): > then you hardly have cause to charge your customers for it :) I'm sure that Apple is very happy to be able to charge their customers a lot of money and the customers apparently are happy to pay that much money because they want a well-designed product on their desktop that says "I'm expensive". Otherwise, if the decision was made on a practical and functional basis alone, they'd buy a PC after thinking for two seconds. Good design is a good investment for Apple, so your irony re cheesegrater is lost on me. Now look at the Pegasos: in the absence of any efforts to make it look good it's just a mainboard and people start asking crititical questions such as "why does this mainboard cost 499EUR while a much better PC mainboard with a much faster CPU costs 99EUR"? If it were sold in a well-designed case with the design and manufacturing quality of one of Apple's cases (or something like a Sun Cobalt Cube), such questions would not be asked so often. I think Genesi is making a big mistake by ignoring the design angle. Just look at the horrible bloated Coolermaster cases and 9$ keyboards used to present it on user meetings, not to mention the microwave Pegasos. What would you think of Apple if they presented their hardware in a microwave? Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 92 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by bbrv on 07-Dec-2003 13:57 GMT In reply to Comment 91 (Anonymous): Thanks for comparing us to Apple! We will let you know when we have 37 million sold and $15 billion in the bank. R&B Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 93 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Anonymous on 08-Dec-2003 09:46 GMT In reply to Comment 92 (bbrv): >We will let you know when we have 37 million sold and $15 billion in the bank. I don't get your point. There are small design companies that create custom (laser-cut aluminium-)cases. It's not a matter of your size, it is just a matter of making the effort if esign matters to you. Here is a small compamny in Britain that creates cases: http://hoojum.com/html/product_cubitp4.htm Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 94 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by Alan LM Buxey on 08-Dec-2003 16:06 GMT In reply to Comment 53 (Neko): >The Guardian comes with automatically updating malicious code detectors and >a service contract. It also has proprietary code which enables it to outclass >a mere OpenSource home-built system. from what i've seen on the Guardian pages its an openBSD box, with a few little extra bits, and a whole suite of OpenSource software eg "Stand alone suite of network exploration and security auditing tools, including hping2 - to send ICMP and custom packets to all ports; Nessus - an open-source vulnerability scanner; Nmap - a port scanner and service identifier; Paratrace - a utility that performs traceroutes without spawning new TCP connections and Dsniff, a full set of utilities for spoofing connections and handling man-in-the-middle attacks" and then the silver level seems to be iptables configured a bit better and SNORT added to the mix (more OpenSource) and you have to buy the Gold version to get the Gigabit port OpenBSD kernel module installed? I, personally am tagging along with post 32 about this, apart froma happy voice on the end of the phone line, what are the core benefits of this box compared to , for example, getting a base PegII box and installing OpenBSD + suite ot tools on it yourself? or, in a blunter way, getting a low heat/voltage power motherboard, no matter what the range of CPU - eg PIV-m or G3/G4, that has gigabit ethernet and OpenBSD/OS of your own choice and the suite of software. whats the main draw here? alan Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 95 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by BrianK on 08-Dec-2003 23:16 GMT In reply to Comment 38 (Anonymous): Anon -- Neko thought I was the one purposing a $1,400 price and questioned where the price came from so I redirected him to your message where you try to figure out price. Anyway for your statement of $600 more. You may want to check that. Apple recently removed the single 1.8Ghz G5 machine and in it's place added a dual 1.8Ghz machine. Config's the same except for the processor count. Price did increase but only by $100. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 96 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by BrianK on 08-Dec-2003 23:26 GMT In reply to Comment 83 (Nate Downes): Nintendo appears to be making an iQue , http://dextrose.com/index.php?s=3&m=10&a=11 , it's based upon N64 hardware and plays N64 and SNES games. I couldn't find a processor listed but being based upon N64 hardware and playing it's games I'd expect a similar 64bit MIPS processor is being used. Lik-Sang has it for $99.90 US and with an updateable OS - 'Another important detail revealed by sources in China is that the OS of the iQue can be updated. We presume that this happens through a download when you "refill" your flash cartridge' -- It'll be interesting to see if someone strips down the Linux Kernel to run on this machine. I'm sure someone, with far far more free time then I have, will work on it. Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 97 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by bbrv on 09-Dec-2003 12:04 GMT IBM link: http://www-1.ibm.com/linux/vt_2.shtml Note the first word is MorphOS! :-) R&B Genesi selects IBM PowerPC for Performance-intensive Pegasos Release : Comment 98 of 98 ANN.lu Posted by BrianK on 09-Dec-2003 15:54 GMT In reply to Comment 97 (bbrv): Seem to be missing where the first word is MorphOS. Literal: IBM is the top left most word... :-P Anonymous, there are 98 items in your selection (but only 48 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 98]

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