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[News] PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0ANN.lu
Posted on 06-Jan-2004 22:54 GMT by Eric_Z67 comments
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Amiga and Cloanto are announcing that Personal Paint 7.1 will be available on the upcoming AmigaOS 4.0 operating system. Cloanto and Amiga are also in talks concerning a new version of Amiga Forever, as well as a special version of Amiga Forever for AmigaOS 4.0, which aims to provide chipset-level Classic Amiga compatibility integrated with the new generation Amiga operating system and hardware. Seattle (January 6, 2004) - Amiga Inc. and Cloanto are delighted to announce that Personal Paint 7.1 will be available on the upcoming AmigaOS 4.0 operating system. The Personal Paint series of 2D graphics and animations applications has been a mainstay of the application base for the Amiga platform ever since its introduction in 1992 and it is also a star attraction of the Cloanto Amiga Forever package. As Cloanto considers a new version of the product for AmigaOS 4.0, it has decided to show its commitment to the Amiga platform and community by making the source code of the current version available to Amiga Inc., allowing them to create a PowerPC native version for the upcoming AmigaOS 4.0 product. The created binaries will be owned by Cloanto but will be made available for free download from the Amiga and Cloanto web sites. Cloanto and Amiga are also in talks concerning a new version of Amiga Forever, as well as a special version of Amiga Forever for AmigaOS 4.0, which aims to provide chipset-level Classic Amiga compatibility integrated with the new generation Amiga operating system and hardware.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 1 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Zee4 on 06-Jan-2004 21:59 GMT
Cool!
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 2 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Jan-2004 22:37 GMT
Chipset-level compatibility... w00t! I bet that Jens Schoenfeld will be selling quite a few catweasels :)

Where did I put my Syndicate disks? :D
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 3 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 06-Jan-2004 22:50 GMT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
which aims to provide chipset-level Classic Amiga compatibility integrated with the new generation Amiga operating system and hardware.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I guess they are going to port UAE to OS4.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 4 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Jan-2004 22:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
I personaly would like to see an agreement with Amithlon-Open team and Cloanto/winUAE team
to provide in cooperation with Hyperion/Amiga Inc a solution to allow AmigaOS4 run under X86 hardware for current the numerous Amiga-PC X86 users.

It seems that some PowerPC emulation hardware solutions are starting now to be usable.

Amiga X86 hardware users will have the possibility to buy and use AmigaOS4 on their powerfull PCs and still promote it around them.


An Amithlon and WinUAE/AForEver user...
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 5 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by sutro on 06-Jan-2004 23:33 GMT
Good news.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 6 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jan-2004 00:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
Dude.
It's not made for 68k or x86. It's made for PPC (although some modules run on 68k as well).

I can appreciate your wishes and concerns, but it's just not realistic. Sorry.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 7 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by José on 07-Jan-2004 01:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
They have AROS, wich is kind of AmigaOS for X86.... and I it's not that we see such a great amount of enthusiasts porting apps for it, or such a big urge from the users. I hope AROS succeds, but right now it doesn't seem to have a big "momentum".
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 8 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 07-Jan-2004 02:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
So you can *"triple boot" it to make out you're a k3wl l33t b!tch when your spotty "geek" mates come round ... not likely ;)

*with WindowsXP .. and a *nix for 5 minutes a month to show off your /version on IRC ;)
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 9 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 07-Jan-2004 03:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
> Chipset-level compatibility...

Isn't that what UAE is about? ;-)

... but this makes me curious:

"integrated with the new generation Amiga operating system"

Surely, "integrated" here means more like "bundled", don't you think?
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 10 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 07-Jan-2004 03:09 GMT
BTW, I think it's kind of cute that suddenly all the "The year is 2004, TWO THOUSAND AND FOUR not NINETEEN NIGHTY FOUR. fresh products are needed than POS antique programs" kind of comments suddenly stopped!

:-)

Personal Paint is a great program, and we are lucky that Cloanto still is around and cares enough to share the sources!
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 11 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by acg on 07-Jan-2004 04:05 GMT
Wow. This is cool. It is posted on the Amiga.com website on the OS link.Amazing...they must be showing a fairly complete OS to different softwarehouses...if we could just get the main productivity programs like IMageFX,Pagestream, turboprint, Hollywood, some audio programs, and videocapture and editing programs to go we might have some market "mass"..couple that to the mini-ITX board running a HDTV output projector andyou got yourselves a video/film studio, a recording studio, a printhouseand an artisans/animators loft in one little tiny box.....and they wouldrun my old classic Amiga stuff.....not bad....I really hope this pans out and doesn't flop.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 12 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by acg on 07-Jan-2004 04:07 GMT
Forgot to add that by hooking up with an HDTV compatible projector, wewould also have a movie-theater in the box also......gotta be someonewho will do it....
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 13 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jan-2004 05:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (takemehomegrandma):
I am just a user (ie not in any of the teams involved), but I think "integrated" means more than that. The os4 feature page at amiga.com says (under "new memory system"):

Address space emulation: The system can emulate alien address spaces, for example emulate an AGA chipset on a machine that doesn`t have AGA.

Sounds to me like a custom version of UAE that makes use of that OS4 feature to emulate chipset access from programs running outside of UAE.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 14 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 07-Jan-2004 07:17 GMT
Well well well, seems like 2004 will be an intresting year ;)

Cheers
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 15 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 07-Jan-2004 07:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
While i like Amithlon, i doubt that it would be feasable to get AOS4 to run on an x86 through emulation, it's technicly possible, but i don't see it happening, sorry

Cheers
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 16 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 07-Jan-2004 07:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (takemehomegrandma):
What the hell are you talking about TMHGM?

Cheers
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 17 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 07-Jan-2004 07:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
Or, maybe they're just talking about having support for the classic Amiga chipset when AmigaOS4 runs on classic Amiga hardware with PPC accelerator boards. There's no mention of any chipset emulation in the announcement and I doubt they would exclude such important part in the announcement if this was the case.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 18 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 07-Jan-2004 08:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (samface):
Ehm... the chipset is already available to programs running on OS4 on the classic with a PPC card. Cloanto don't need to do anything to make that work because it already does.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 19 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by samo79 on 07-Jan-2004 08:17 GMT
Great news, just yesterday i was hugly fot the news of Pagasos's port, today i have this news !!
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 20 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 07-Jan-2004 08:43 GMT
Didn't see that coming...

;)
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 21 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 07-Jan-2004 08:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am just a user (ie not in any of the teams involved), but I think "integrated" means more than that. The os4 feature page at amiga.com says (under "new memory system"):

Address space emulation: The system can emulate alien address spaces, for example emulate an AGA chipset on a machine that doesn`t have AGA.

Sounds to me like a custom version of UAE that makes use of that OS4 feature to emulate chipset access from programs running outside of UAE.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Address space is the easy part, timing issues will be the hardest part.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 22 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 07-Jan-2004 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Matt Parsons):
"as well as a special version of Amiga Forever for AmigaOS 4.0, which aims to provide chipset-level Classic Amiga compatibility integrated with the new generation Amiga operating system and hardware."

"Integrated" is the key word here, if they can pull it off. I take that to mean that the relevant emulation code will run automatically when needed, for example by a program such as Brilliance.

This could be very good news, although it will no doubt be a year or so before we see a working version.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 23 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jan-2004 09:29 GMT
I'm not surprised if it turns out to be a PPC version of UAE
with a Reaction GUI, and not any fancy address emulation...
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 24 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 07-Jan-2004 09:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
"Address space emulation: The system can emulate alien address spaces, for example emulate an AGA chipset on a machine that doesn`t have AGA.

Sounds to me like a custom version of UAE that makes use of that OS4 feature to emulate chipset access from programs running outside of UAE."

That is what I am hoping they mean.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 25 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 07-Jan-2004 10:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Don Cox):
This is a very good news, Personal Paint for (and integrated in ??) OS4 is a fantastic idea!

--------------
That is what I am hoping they mean.
--------------
The same for me :D
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 26 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 07-Jan-2004 10:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Don Cox):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sounds to me like a custom version of UAE that makes use of that OS4 feature to emulate chipset access from programs running outside of UAE."

That is what I am hoping they mean.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

That would be impossible unless you are prepared to accept a massive slow down. I imagine they will use a similar approach to the one AROS will use, that 68k (in the case of OS4, Chipset banging)programs will be launchable from the normal system but will still execute within an integrated UAE (to allow inter system interaction).
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 27 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 07-Jan-2004 11:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Anonymous):
In all honesty, I think you'll get an "Amiga Forever" for OS4. That is, licensed ROMs, UAE with a ReAction GUI, and maybe some method of process communication between tasks in UAE and native tasks.

I know for a fact that Hyperion have always strongly denied that OS4 will have any support at all for hardware banging applications on the AmigaOne, except for through UAE or similar.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 28 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Will on 07-Jan-2004 11:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (takemehomegrandma):
"fresh products are needed"

Yes they are needed but the Amiga is not mainstream anymore, so making updates to antique software and charging for them is the only thing left that the Amiga companies can do.

2004 is indeed the year where the Amiga goes backwards than forwards.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 29 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 07-Jan-2004 12:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Will):
"A small step for mankind, a giant leap for Amiga users"
- Sammy Nordström AKA "Samface", 2004

:-P
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 30 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 07-Jan-2004 12:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Will):
Who's charging for them? The MorphOS and OS4version are both going to be bundled as freesoftware for the users when completed. It'snice to see more companies becoming involvedagain.Many people are familiar with and prefer usingprograms like Personal Paint and it's encouragingthat they are being updated to run on the newersystems. Several older applications exist thatare still not matched today.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 31 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by kalmar on 07-Jan-2004 12:34 GMT
Yaay.. this is more like it!
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 32 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jan-2004 12:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Amon_Re):
Take a wander over to http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1073343223&category=news&start=1&68 and see for yourself.

Interesting how when PP was announced for MorphOS, certain people start flaming them for it and denouncing PP as useless in this fday and age. Yet a few days later, when the same product is announced for AOS4, suddenly it becomes a marvellous wonderful product!
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 33 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 07-Jan-2004 12:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Will):
@ Amon_Re and Will

What's inside the quotation marks is a copy and paste from the thread where Personal Paint was announced for MorphOS, these are not my words. I really like Personal Paint, it is the best program in its category, even today.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 34 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by spot on 07-Jan-2004 13:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous):
I really really like it! I wrote Cloanto 2-3 weeks ago and asked them
about PPaint for AOS4. And then after some mails back and forth between
me and cloanto and fleecy I got to hear this news and it was WAY more positive than I had ever imagined. Talk about timing from my side... =)
Anyway, thank you Cloanto, thank you A Inc!
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 35 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 07-Jan-2004 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (takemehomegrandma):
Ah, so because someone posted about it there, logically at least one person HAS to post it here, is that it?

Personally I don't see much reason to go to any extremes. It's nice to see applications (even old ones) get updated, but it's not worth selling your soul over.

:-)
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 36 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jan-2004 13:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Matt Parsons):
Well if it's done in UAE it can be done in OS4 too :) Sure it is not easy task.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 37 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Will on 07-Jan-2004 13:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous):
Thats normal Amiga users attitude for you, if something comes on MorphOS it is the biggist pile of shit ever released, then all of a sudden a AOS version is coming out then this shit turns in to 24 carat gold.

Amiga users do not deserve anything anymore and its about time the last remaining companies jumped ship and leave the remaining ungrateful bastards to enjoy a new OS with f**k all new software.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 38 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jan-2004 13:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous):
Well you don't seem to understand that PersonalPaint IS old application, and it lacks lot's of features which it should have. BUT it still is wery good. So BOTH opinions are right. PPaint is maybe a bit outdated, but it still is excellent application. If you don't understand then you have not used PPaint.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 39 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jan-2004 13:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Will):
You must be blind if you don't see that PPaint has it's flwas, but still is wery good. Not all applications portee to MOS are best on earth no matter what you think.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 40 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jan-2004 13:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Will):
You are just yet another fanatic troll.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 41 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 07-Jan-2004 13:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Will):
There is alot of people that would say the exact opposite, but I'm kind of leaning towards the possibility that there is coming just as much crap from both directions.

Although, I do agree that the Amiga community isn't that happy Brady bunch as it used to be anymore. Sad but true. However, do you really think comments like yours will lighten anyone up?
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 42 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 07-Jan-2004 14:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Anonymous):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well if it's done in UAE it can be done in OS4 too :) Sure it is not easy task.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

One can emulate the Chipset in OS4, in such a way as to allow harware bashing programs to use it oblivious to the fact that there is no actual chipset there. But to do that one would have to lock the instuction execution to the chipset in order to get the correct timings for the chipset operations... if one does this then you slow the whole execution down (not to mention the overhead of the actual chipset emulation). it would be much easier to use UAE :-)
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 43 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Will on 07-Jan-2004 14:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (samface):
First of all i do not own or would even waste money on a Pegasos or Amiga1 board, so nothing fanatical at all.

"do you really think comments like yours will lighten anyone up?"

No but i like to say what i think and will continue to do so despite ignorant Amiga users attacking.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 44 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Will on 07-Jan-2004 14:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
"You are just yet another fanatic troll"

Perfect example of the normal Amiga user.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 45 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 07-Jan-2004 14:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Will):
>>do you really think comments like yours will lighten anyone up?
>
>No but i like to say what i think and will continue to do so despite ignorant
>Amiga users attacking.

Here, have a mirror. You need it.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 46 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jan-2004 14:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Peter Gordon):
@Peter Gordon:

>In all honesty, I think you'll get an "Amiga Forever" for OS4. That is, >licensed ROMs, UAE with a ReAction GUI, and maybe some method of process >communication between tasks in UAE and native tasks.

Also, not to forget: probably support for the new "AmigaInput" system.
That would be way cool -- lots of joypad support. :)

In addition to that, maybe Cloanto could make use of the "Dockies", let's
say you drag and drop an ADF file on it (when working on the "Workbench"), and hey presto, it is launched with UAE.

The new OS features opens up some neat functionality :)
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 47 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 07-Jan-2004 14:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Will):
I doubt the the avarage Amiga website forum poster even represents 5% of the Amiga users out there. Why are you so judgemental?
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 48 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 07-Jan-2004 14:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (samface):
He's just trying to get a response. Stop feeding the troll.
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 49 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 07-Jan-2004 14:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Peter Gordon):
You're right, I did it again, didn't I? Sorry about that.

/ignore Will
PERSONAL PAINT 7.1 FOR AmigaOS 4.0 : Comment 50 of 67ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 07-Jan-2004 14:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Anonymous):
As opposed to just double-clicking on it, you mean? :-)
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