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[News] IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is availableANN.lu
Posted on 27-Jan-2004 22:21 GMT by Eva (Edited on 2004-01-28 03:46:41 GMT by Christophe Decanini)48 comments
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IBM's new development platform for the PPC750GX is now available. The board is based on Marvell's Discovery III (MV64460) chipset (which is software compatible with the Discovery II chipset used in the Pegasos II board) and supports a 200MHZ FSB and DDR400 memory. The board is a dual CPU board and also has four 64bit PCI/PCI-X slots running at 133MHz. (Thx to www.morphos-news.de for the info)

Will we see a new Pegasos for the end of the year ? Let's hope!

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/products/PowerPC_750GX_Evaluation_Kit

IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 1 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by bennymee on 27-Jan-2004 21:44 GMT
Where is a nice picture of this board ?
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 2 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Jan-2004 22:19 GMT
> Will we see a new Pegasos for the end of the year ? Let's hope!

The next pegasos is said to be based around the IBM PPC 970 CPU (the "G5") and the corresponding Marvell **970** chipset with IBM's high speed Elastic Interface Technology. The Pegasos III will NOT be based on the Discovery 3, and using this chip in the current Pegasos design would at best only offer a minor upgrade to the current Pegasos 2 and would probably not be worth the effort.

Eyetech is the one in the rebadging-development-motherboards-and-selling-to-end-user business; perhaps they could be interested? AmigaTwo anyone? Wasn't the AmigaTwo supposed to be dual processor (hence the "2")?
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 3 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Mr. Anonymous on 28-Jan-2004 01:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
Yes, two was explained to be "as in two processors".
What's so bad about basing a motherboard off of a reference board?
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 4 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 28-Jan-2004 02:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Mr. Anonymous):
Bad?

Nothing at all.

Other than the jokes about "nyuh nyuh it's a reference board"
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 5 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by BrianK on 28-Jan-2004 03:53 GMT
Cool schematics you youngens probably don't remember this but at one time each computer came with the schematics included. Not that 99% of people would find it valuable but I remember soldering changes to the VIC20 and TS1000 the schematics were very helpful.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 6 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Jope on 28-Jan-2004 05:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (BrianK):
I do remember. Also my A500 came with the schematics.

You're not the only one who's been around longer than a few years. :-D
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 7 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jan-2004 06:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
>and would probably not be worth the effort. What effort? are they not compatible?
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 8 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jan-2004 06:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Jope):
Maybe we can get the schematics of Pegasos when it becomes the OPEN ARCHITECTURE development platform. :)
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 9 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Gunnar on 28-Jan-2004 07:18 GMT
The 750 GX is definetly an interesting CPU
but unless its much cheaper than the 7447
I see no reason for Genesi to go for it.

The 750Gx and 7447 used in the Peg II have comparable speed.
The 750Gx has a bigger cache but the G4 has an advanced architecture and altivec.

The 750GX would be interesting if it were available at a higher clockrate.


Just my 2 cents
Gunnar
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 10 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 28-Jan-2004 07:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
The Peg2 at least comes with a complete pin layout for every single slot and connector, at least this is progress from the Peg1 manual!
;-)
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 11 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 28-Jan-2004 07:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Mr. Anonymous):
In the PC world, most of the cheapo and less reliable motherboards are based on reference designs - all the high quality ones (like ABIT, Asus etc) are 100% original designs.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 12 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by ainc is god on 28-Jan-2004 07:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 ([JC]):
Are you saying that AmigaONE board is a cheap board why is based on Teron, the reference design of MAI?
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 13 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jan-2004 07:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 ([JC]):
No they are nopt 100% original designs, none of them are.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 14 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 28-Jan-2004 07:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 ([JC]):
> In the PC world, most of the cheapo and less reliable motherboards are based
> on reference designs

I didn't know that this was a custom? Well, could perhaps be a way to squeeze the last bucks out of something thats allready there anyway ...
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 15 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jan-2004 07:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
nopt=not
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 16 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 28-Jan-2004 07:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (ainc is god):
> Are you saying that AmigaONE board is a cheap board

I don't think that *anyone* would call the Teron/A1 cheap! :-P
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 17 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jan-2004 08:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (takemehomegrandma):
I don't think that anyone called the A4000 and especially the A4000/T cheap either...
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 18 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 28-Jan-2004 08:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (BrianK):
"Cool schematics you youngens probably don't remember this but at one time each computer came with the schematics included. "

The Apple ][ also came with the complete source code of the ROM. No fuss about "Intellectual Property" then.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 19 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 28-Jan-2004 09:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Don Cox):
Those were the days ...
;-)
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 20 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by DET Nicolas on 28-Jan-2004 11:03 GMT
Hi all !

About IBM 750GX vs MPC7447, I would prefer the 750GX. Indeed, it should be faster (1.1Ghz, and 1Mo of L2) and also less noisy as it only dissips 9W.

Well, that's only my mind :-).

Bye
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 21 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 28-Jan-2004 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (DET Nicolas):
The 750GX also has a 200Mhz bus, doesn't it?

It would be nice to see some fan-less 1Ghz 750FX Pegasos
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 22 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 28-Jan-2004 11:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Crumb // AAT):
or GX...
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 23 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 28-Jan-2004 11:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (DET Nicolas):
I think it's going to be interesting to see in what way (if any) MorphOS and its applications will use the Altivitec. Wasn't there some rumour of Altivitec support in MorphOS 1.5?

If the Altivitec will be unused (or if it's usage won't offer any big advantages), then there is no reason to use the G4 IMO, and I too would rather prefer this IBM 750GX at 1.1GHz with 200Mhz bus, and *without a fan*!
:-)
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 24 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 28-Jan-2004 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 ([JC]):
In the PC world, most of the cheapo and less reliable motherboards are based on reference designs - all the high quality ones (like ABIT, Asus etc) are 100% original designs.

Especially when the originality puts capacitors in the clear zone the reference designs demand around the CPU socket, or removes necessary ESD buffering from USB ports or similar...
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 25 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Jorge on 28-Jan-2004 12:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (DET Nicolas):
...and the faster mem bus (does the 7447/7457 support 200MHz FSB?)
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 26 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 28-Jan-2004 13:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 ([JC]):
Ever wondered what the term IBM-PC clones came from, which later became simply the "PC"? None of the brands you mentioned are original.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 27 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 28-Jan-2004 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (samface):
>Ever wondered what the term IBM-PC clones came from, which later became simply the "PC"? >None of the brands you mentioned are original.

The original IBM-Clone was made by Compaq "COMPAtible-Quality", it was an original design using a reverse engineered BIOS and MS-DOS instead of PC-DOS (same thing, different name).

I somehow doubt IBM gave out their board designs...
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 28 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 28-Jan-2004 15:20 GMT
Ehem.

Where's all the people claiming that dual G3 is impossible?

Dang, when proof comes out, they're not around. Oh well, cannot win em all :-)


(reference: I've been saying single or dual G3 or G4 about the CPU cards for the AmigaOne since day one, and certain people used to pop up _every_ time I said it and claim that dual G3 boards is impossible. The truth is that it's never been impossible, just not very practical with the pre-750FX implementations of bus snooping and cache coherency. Which is why there never was a dual G3 Mac. The problem is that I was never able to reach out to these people, some people just do not want to learn anything new :-) )
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 29 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Gunnar on 28-Jan-2004 15:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (DET Nicolas):
>About IBM 750GX vs MPC7447, I would prefer the 750GX.
>Indeed, it should be faster (1.1Ghz, and 1Mo of L2)

The G4 is more than a G3 plus altivec.
For example an 7445@600mhz is much faster
then a 750cxe@600mhz even without using altivec.

On the other hand the 750Gx has plenty cache
and its not a 'stock' G3 anymore.

I think its really hard to see which CPU is faster.
According to the IBM and the Motorola website both
have the same Dhrystone score.
But dhrystone is not the best benchmark anyway. :)

The picture will change a lot as soon as altivec is used.



>also less noisy as it only dissips 9W.

If you want to pay a little more you can get
a low voltage 7447 which only needs 7W.

If you want a little more speed then
there are 7447s which run 1.3 ~ 1.4 Ghz.

I think that the 7447 is a good choice for the Peg II.

As soon as IBM brings out the next G3 (750Vx with altivec)
at higher clockrate >1.4 Ghz then I would consider them again.



Cheers
Gunnar
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 30 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by BrianK on 28-Jan-2004 16:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Olegil):
Everyone lines up and bows to the greatness of Olegil
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 31 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 28-Jan-2004 17:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
Well, Pegaso2 is FAR cheaoper and faster than Aone.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 32 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 28-Jan-2004 18:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (takemehomegrandma):
The point is this.
If we take a little example from the Apple world (where money and programmers invested on MacOs X is 10000 times bigger than anty amiga related toy), we can see that only after 3 years from the ALtivec born, there are a decent set of applications that use it.
The prob is that Altivec support must be added by developer and also good coding ambient like Metrowerks doesn't give a good support for Altivec (aka, no automatically optimized code that encrease the speed automatically, and this is, of course, logical due the particular vectorial functions that Altivec CRUNCH).
It could be possible that one day we will see a rudimental OS support for Altivec (in MUI, MagicMEnu, Ambient, Cgxvideo library, 3d APIs, OS libraries ...) but it will happen slow.
The 750GX and the Discovery3 chipset migration we'll be good for 3 easy poit:
1) Overall speed encrease: without counting on altivec use, the GX is faster that actually used G4, thx to the bigger cache and the 200mhz bus.
2) silence please: the machine we'll be completly silent thx to the low low watt consumption (the heat exspected for the 1.2Ghz model is 50įC without any dissipator)
3) the price: 750GX will be 30% cheaper than 7447 due less transistor use (No altivec, no Multiprocess subsys)

Sure, if someone in the Mos team can answer me that "We will add full Altivec support in few months" (and for full I consider DIRECT use in OS primitives of Altivec functions if the Os detects a CPU with an Altivec unit) the use of 750 is not so acceptable.
Anyway go out and ask to Mac people how many software use Altivec unit and when it come out! :D
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 33 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 28-Jan-2004 18:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Eva):
Can you please tell something that we don't already know?
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 34 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jan-2004 19:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Eva):
Funny, it is only 25$ cheaper here and it certainly isn't faster.

You are so full of shit Eva.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 35 of 48ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 34 (Anonymous):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: trolling
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 36 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 28-Jan-2004 22:29 GMT
Christophe ... can you readd here the post 35 or explain why you deleted it?
Did you readed comemnt 33 & 34?
Are they not troll post?
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 37 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 28-Jan-2004 22:30 GMT
Chris I did't added a single insult or bad answer worse than those posts :(
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 38 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jan-2004 23:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (takemehomegrandma):
Naah, the most interesting pinouts for slot 24 and 26 are still missing... ;)
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 39 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 29-Jan-2004 02:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Gunnar):
>The 750 GX is definetly an interesting CPU>but unless its much cheaper than the 7447>I see no reason for Genesi to go for it. You can find prices at PPCNUX newssite now:http://www.ppcnux.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2985
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 40 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Alan LM Buxey on 29-Jan-2004 08:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Eva):
its cheaper, agreed.

far faster? care to back this unqualified statement? and
WHICH of the AmigaONE models its far faster than?

alan
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 41 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 29-Jan-2004 14:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Eva):
Eva,
You went over the lines many times recently. I try to stay as much objective as I can but you still do provocate people. If I see a comment from you that can lead to a flamewar I do moderate it.
As soon as you will calm down and learn to respect people you won't be moderated anymore.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 42 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 29-Jan-2004 19:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Christophe Decanini):
To be objective ... you deleted a post of an anon insult me 12 hours after you deleted my post: a post that was less offensive.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 43 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 29-Jan-2004 20:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Eva):
Just because I didn't notice it in the first place.
I can not read every comments in every threads.
I try to be as abjective as possible but it is true that when someone already has an abuse history I focus more on his/her comments.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 44 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 29-Jan-2004 22:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Eva):
Also don't forget that you need a compiler that's AWARE of Altivec, don't know how well Altivec is supported in GCC and the likes.

Cheers
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 45 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 29-Jan-2004 22:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Amon_Re):
Posted by Amon_Re (Trusted user) on 29-Jan-2004 23:04:30
In Reply to Comment 32 (Eva):
Also don't forget that you need a compiler that's AWARE of Altivec, don't know how well Altivec is supported in GCC and the likes.
___________

I hope to not see this comment banned, Chris.
Amon_re, due the particular function that Altivec engine can accelerate, an hand optamization is required, at last in the compiler directive for POINTED out routines.
Also under X86 atchitecture there are so many MMX, SSE SSE2 3dnow etc compilers optimization, but go out and ask to game developer how great is the speed encrease thx to the compiler optimization.
Anyway, if you think that Altivec specific code is so easy to add, go out in the real world and see what is the reality in Aplle market (for example).
I tought you was a developer: my error.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 46 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 30-Jan-2004 04:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Eva):
>Also under X86 atchitecture there are so many MMX, SSE SSE2 3dnow etc >compilers optimization, but go out and ask to game developer how great is the >speed encrease thx to the compiler optimization.

Try with CPU centric applications such as media encoding, software non-liner video editing and software 3D ray tracers. Donít forget that most modern games have DX8 and DX9's shaders optimizations issues e.g. NV code path VS ATI code path.
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 47 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 30-Jan-2004 04:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Eva):
Refer to "http://www.codeplay.com/vectorc/ps2_vu-features.html"...
IBM PPC750GX Development board with Marvell Discovery 3 chipset is available : Comment 48 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 30-Jan-2004 10:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (hammer):
I agree Hammer.
The funny part is that for someone you need simply a recompile to obtain a optimized version of a program that use magically Vector Cpu Units, Gfx card shaders feature etc.
I'm asking myself what is the skill level of those ppl.
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