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[News] Pegasos sales restartingANN.lu
Posted on 28-Jan-2004 20:14 GMT by Nate Downes156 comments
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That's right, online sales are returning early! If you're looking for that PegasosII, the wait is over! PegasosPPC.com is back and ready to take your order.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 51 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 29-Jan-2004 08:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Ronald St-Maurice):
"Mac are renowned for being expensive. Amigas aren't."

Yes they are. The A1000, A2000, A3000 and A4000 were all expensive. The A4000 cost more than £2000. (UKP)

Neither Genesi nor Eyetech are offering anything equivalent to the A500/A1200 - a toy computer with very limited expansion. The nearest equivalent to these today is a games console.

The Pegasos and the A1 are in very much the same position as the A3000 - about the same price as a Mac, but technically inferior. (Compare A3000 and Mac II, or A1 and G5 Mac.)
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 52 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 29-Jan-2004 08:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
" The good thing for Amiga Inc and Hyperion is that they do not have a big investment in hardware (poor Eytech does)."

Minimal compared to Genesi. The MAI reference designs would be done anyway as MAI has to have them, and the changes for the production board are not very great. Then the boards can be made in small batches as needed, by outside contractors (so no investment in manufacturing equipment), and sold at a price that does cover the actual costs.

Compare Commodore, with their own factories, huge tooling costs for plastic mouldings, custom chips, printed colour manuals. Eyetech is in a much stronger position. All they have to do is make sure they don't have too many unsold boards in stock - but even that is much less of a problem than having a warehouse full of unsold A500s.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 53 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jan-2004 08:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (4pLaYeR):
Read again what you just said, you are as much or more fanatic than he is. :P
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 54 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 29-Jan-2004 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Don Cox):
The Pegasos and A1 may be inferior to high end Macs in performance (especially when running MacOS or Linux), but I would not call them *technically* inferior. Tecnically (from a general users point of view), they have most of the features that Macs have, you can use USB, Ultra ATA, Firewire, G3 and G4 CPU's, PCI and AGP devices, etc. However, the "numbers" are lower, it's USB1.1, Ultra ATA 100, Firewire 400, no 2GHz+ CPU yet, etc. You may call this "technically inferiour" but as I said, I would classify it more as a performance issue; it's there, but it's slower. If you want it faster you could allways insert a USB2.0 card, Ultra ATA 133 card (or better - real SCSI), Firewire 800, etc and write some drivers for them ;-).

When speaking about features, performance, "inferiourity" and such it would also be erroneous to leave the *target market segments* out of the discussion. What may be considered to be a burning inferiourity in one segment, may be perfectly enough in another. In some market segments the price is not an issue; it can cost whatever astronomical sums imaginable as long as you get the latest and fastest there is. In other segments, a low price is actually considered to be a feature itself, and in those segments an astronomical price actually makes the highest-end solution inferiour to the cheaper one. Sure, the top of the line Apple G5 might be very fast and have all the latest features, but its price of $2800-$3150 makes it *quite undersireable* for many usages and applications.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 55 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald St-Maurice on 29-Jan-2004 09:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Don Cox):
Yes they are. The A1000, A2000, A3000 and A4000 were all expensive. The A4000 cost more than £2000. (UKP)
I didn't ask for a price comparison, I said renowned.

To people I've met and asked (or listened to):
they associated Macs with creativity(desktop publishing and imaging) and expensive.
and associated Amigas with Gaming and animation(genlock).
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 56 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 29-Jan-2004 09:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (takemehomegrandma):
BTW, my current PC (motherboard and CPU) actually cost me more than my Pegasos (motherboard and CPU). Sure, if you look at numbers, the Pegasos may be inferior to that PC, but for general real life usage it sure isn't! OK, I can't run Windows on the Pegasos (what a loss! ;-)), but I can run Linux, BSD and of course - MorphOS! :-) And it's fast enough (especially MorphOS ;-))!

BTW, my second Pegasos2 will be a G3, it will run OpenBSD and I will use it as a *completely silent* (perhaps *the* most important feature for me) server/router/firewall/NAS unit, with gigabit towards my LAN!
:-)
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 57 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jan-2004 09:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Don Cox):
The A1000, A2000, A3000, A4000 where all expensive? Compared to what? Yes the A1000 my parents bought me was insanely expensive if you just look at the price tag but when compared to other computers at the time and what you got for it then it was a cheap computer. The price would have been nearly identical for another computer that would have been specs wise much worse.

Don't think the ratio shifted until my A4000 which actually was horribly expensive concidering that there where more other machines around at a cheaper price at the time, non as good thou in my mind so I bought one.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 58 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 29-Jan-2004 10:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (takemehomegrandma):
"The Pegasos and A1 may be inferior to high end Macs in performance (especially when running MacOS or Linux), but I would not call them *technically* inferior. Tecnically (from a general users point of view), they have most of the features that Macs have, you can use USB, Ultra ATA, Firewire, G3 and G4 CPU's, PCI and AGP devices, etc. However, the "numbers" are lower, it's USB1.1, Ultra ATA 100, Firewire 400, no 2GHz+ CPU yet, etc. "

That is what I mean. They are "last year's model".
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 59 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 29-Jan-2004 10:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Anonymous):
"The A1000, A2000, A3000, A4000 where all expensive? Compared to what? "

PCs.

I had to try to justify buying Amigas from a limited budget, and it was difficult. No more Amigas were bought after I left.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 60 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by lempkee on 29-Jan-2004 10:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (lempkee):
ok so u find this funny? , you better stop!

ok so now we know where you copy and paste from (nick + email + signatures etc)

pathetic!
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 61 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 29-Jan-2004 11:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Don Cox):
> That is what I mean. They are "last year's model".

Perhaps, but that rises another question; have you thought about the reasons to why the PC sales dropped so dramatically lately compared to 3-5 years ago? Could it be that "last year's model" is perfectly enough for the general consumer? They can use all HDD's, all CD-ROM's and CD-RW's, all DVD burners, all printers, all monitors, many good graphic cards, sound cards, joypads, joysticks, keyboards, mouses. They can connect their digital cameras and other USB devices. They can even connect their DV cams if they add a cheapo firewire card. Most people can do everything they want with their "last year's model" and that is because "the last year's model" is actually quite good and very suitable for their needs!
:-)
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 62 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 29-Jan-2004 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (lempkee):
@ lempkee

1. Start a mail program
2. Write a mail to Christian Kemp where you:

2a) Tell him your nick
2b) Tell him a password you want to use

3. Click "Send" (or similar) button.

Then you will have your nick protected as a trusted user! It's as simple as that! I really can't understand why not everyone has done this already ...
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 63 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jan-2004 11:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (takemehomegrandma):
"The Pegasos and A1 may be inferior to high end Macs in performance (especially when running MacOS or Linux), but I would not call them *technically* inferior. Tecnically (from a general users point of view), they have most of the features that Macs have, you can use USB, Ultra ATA, Firewire, G3 and G4 CPU's, PCI and AGP devices, etc"

No USB2.0, no ATA-133, no SATA, no FireWire 800, no G5 CPUs, no AGPx8...

Yes, the A1 and Pegasos ARE inferior to the Mac. Performance AND technically. Deal with it.

"Apple G5 might be very fast and have all the latest features, but its price of $2800-$3150 makes it *quite undersireable* for many usages and applications. "

If you are going to slag off Apple, at least get your facts straight. $2800 - $3150? BS. $1799 gets you a 1.,6GHz G5 Mac which will thrash the pants off any current A1 (well, when it finally comes out) and the fastest 1GHz G4 Pegasos. $2999 is the dual 2GHz G5 Mac. So quite why you feel the need top claim $3150, other than to lie, is beyond me...
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 64 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jan-2004 11:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (takemehomegrandma):
BTW, compare the price for a Pegasos 1GHz G4 BOARD against the price for a full 1GHz G4 eMac - you *sure* Pegasos is not expensive in comparison?

(No point in discussing the A1 as it is not yet out - even SpamFace admits that the AmigaOne is not yet on sale...)
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 65 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Big Red Troll on 29-Jan-2004 12:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Anonymous):
>>even SpamFace admits that the AmigaOne is not yet on sale...

????
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 66 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by lempkee on 29-Jan-2004 12:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (takemehomegrandma):
i did this allready dood, no reply yet..

and i have tried before aswell..

anyone want to tell him to check his email?
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 67 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 29-Jan-2004 13:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (takemehomegrandma):
"Most people can do everything they want with their "last year's model" and that is because "the last year's model" is actually quite good and very suitable for their needs!"

If you position the Pegasos/A1 as "good enough" mediocre computers, you will come up against the total dominance of the Windows PC in that market.

People will only buy a weird, non-standard computer (such as a Mac) if it has some outstanding features and is of really high quality. That's why it was so dangerous for Apple when Motorola fell behind on CPU speed.

It is also possible that there would be a market for a non-standard computer that was _really_ cheap - for example, $200 total including monitor. It would have to have a fully functioning web browser. I don't see Genesi or Eyetech in such a market.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 68 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by vortexau on 29-Jan-2004 13:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Darth_X):
THAT wasn't me, BTW!
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 69 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by vortexau on 29-Jan-2004 13:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (4pLaYeR):
> In Reply to Comment 1 (vortexau):
> Get a life fan(atic) its sickos
To repeat- THAT wasn't me!
Its bad when someone's 'name' is TAKEN in vain . . . .
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 70 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 29-Jan-2004 13:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Don Cox):
"It is also possible that there would be a market for a non-standard computer that was _really_ cheap - for example, $200 total including monitor. It would have to have a fully functioning web browser. I don't see Genesi or Eyetech in such a market. "

The problem for this low end market is that you have to produce a huge volume of units (so taking huge investment risks) to get real low margins/profit.
A pegasos/Amigaone "light" with a low end PPC on board with a cheap gfx chip could technically do it.
Of course there is the problem of the OS. To offer a good browsing experience, several applications, mem protected system, etc at a low price (free software) I think that you have to go the linux / bsd route.
At this point it looks that the more featured solution at high price is preffered. If for example selling 10 guardian systems makes as much profit as selling 1000 pegasos light I can not blame Genesi to start with the high end.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 71 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 29-Jan-2004 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Anonymous):
Twist my words, why don't you? We're talking about entirely different contexts here. I said that the AmigaOne is not available as a complete and ready to go system yet. The OS that it's supposed to be bundled with is still not released, hence why they call them "Earlybirds". I stated that in a respons to the claim that Amiga Inc. wasn't honoring the $50/$100 rebate for Club Amiga members and Party Pack owners.

Changing that statement into that I would be claiming that the AmigaOne is not available for sale yet is just pure ignorance. Of course you can get an AmigaOne today, but since it is a form of pre-release, it's not actually released yet "on paper". Don't be such a prick about it.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 72 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 29-Jan-2004 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (samface):
Sam, you can't attack other people when they apply the same logic you do!
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 73 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 29-Jan-2004 14:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Matt Parsons):
Exactly where is the likeness of my logic in this anonymous person's logic? I'm sorry, but I really do think there is some form of misconception about me here and would really like it to be sorted out.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 74 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 29-Jan-2004 14:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (samface):
Ok, you like to take things out of context and use them to prove the logical flow of your ideas.

ergo... he used the same logic you do. Therefore you should accept that you said there is currently no AmigaONE...
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 75 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 29-Jan-2004 14:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Matt Parsons):
Care to make an example of when I have taken something out of it's context and placed it into a completely different context?
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 76 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 29-Jan-2004 14:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Christophe Decanini):
"The problem for this low end market is that you have to produce a huge volume of units (so taking huge investment risks) to get real low margins/profit."

Yes. Sony could possibly do it, or some other mass producer such as Samsung.

"Of course there is the problem of the OS. To offer a good browsing experience, several applications, mem protected system, etc at a low price (free software) I think that you have to go the linux / bsd route."

I suppose MorphOS is "free" for Genesi, but it lacks a complete browser. Linux is indeed the answer.



"At this point it looks that the more featured solution at high price is preffered. If for example selling 10 guardian systems makes as much profit as selling 1000 pegasos light I can not blame Genesi to start with the high end."

IMO the approach of selling a CHRP board for industrial applications is the best bet - I think Genesi are going the right way.

Selling as a minority desktop computer will only be possible when the applications are somewhere near the range available for the Mac. Otherwise, why would anyone prefer an Amiga or Pegasos to a Mac? (Apart from the small band of existing and returning Amiga users).

Long hard slog ahead.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 77 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by ehaines on 29-Jan-2004 16:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Anonymous):
> (No point in discussing the A1 as it is not yet out - even SpamFace admits > that the AmigaOne is not yet on sale...)Boy, are YOU out of it. AmigaOnes have been on sale for at least a year. It's OS4 that's not out yet. Get a clue.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 78 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 29-Jan-2004 16:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (ehaines):
accordign to Samface AmigaONEs are not out yet...

To everyone else they are :-)
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 79 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 29-Jan-2004 16:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Matt Parsons):
According to me they are indeed "out" and available for sale, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a pre-release and that it's missing some of the functionalities and features of the future official release.

Please stop twisting my words. No, you're not just taking my words out of it's context, you are actually changing my words now.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 80 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by The_Editor on 29-Jan-2004 17:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (vortexau):
I can confirm that THIS "VortexAU" IS the fair dinkum McCoy !!

How come I never get Spoofed ? ... Sorry ... rephrase .. (Aussies in the room).. How come my Nick never gets spoofed ??

A life in total obscurity !!
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 81 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jan-2004 18:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (takemehomegrandma):
> most people can do everything they want with their "last year's model"

Still, the performance gap between a 3.4 GHz PC and a 0.6 GHz Pegasos is unaccepatble (factor 8+). MorphOS alone runs fast but some applications need power regardless of the OS, such as DivX/DVD/MPEG2 encoding: It's not as if copying and re-encoding DVDs or DVB is an esoteric hobby, many people do that. What is 1 hour on a fast PC is eight hours on a Pegasos 1. What is the purpose of a silent multimedia machine if it is too slow for multimedia-related tasks?
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 82 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 29-Jan-2004 18:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Don Cox):
@ Don Cox

>> "Most people can do everything they want with their "last year's model" and
>> that is because "the last year's model" is actually quite good and very
>> suitable for their needs!"

> If you position the Pegasos/A1 as "good enough" mediocre computers

OK, the terms "last year's model", "good enough" and "mediocre" all has an unjust negative touch. You compare it to the *top of the line* PC's and Mac's, like that is relevant. It's not, because your reasoning is assuming that there only is one single segment - only *one single need* - on the entire computer market, and that everyone is prepared to walk across broken glass in order to get the stuff with the highest numbers on. That is not true. Again, take a look at the PC market that totally stalled some year ago. Everyone was thinking that the race would go on and on forever, people will continue to demand faster and faster CPU's and higher "numbers" forever, like USB3, Firewire1600, etc. That assumption kicked back big time upon the industry, because people didn't replace/upgrade their computer as expected!

Why? Well, why would people invest good money to upgrade to a "today's model" when they already have *everything they need* in the "yesterday's model"? Again, those terms are inappropriate. Perhaps the term "most suitable" would be better? Is the latest and most powerful Nvidia 3D gaming card the most suitable card for someone who mainly uses their computer for word processing, just because it's available? Is 24-bit audio with midi connectors really suitable for someone who mainly uses their computer for bank transactions on their Internet bank, just because it's available? Is a roaring 4GHz CPU really suitable for someone who uses his computer mainly for trading recepies on an e-mail list, just because it's available?

Perhaps your time in the x86 "space race" has caused you to believe that constant racing simply must be a normal state? Perhaps it isn't, not to everyone at least? Different needs, different segments, different products - "suitable" products.

> People

Again, who is "people" here? What segment are we talking about? Render farm owners? Programmers and 3D developers that needs every clock cycle they can find? Or Mr/Mrs Smith who's only need is to write a mail and browse the web once in a while, and greatly apreciates if the "device" they are using to do that is totally noiseless and starts up in a flash?

> will only buy a weird, non-standard computer (such as a Mac) if it has some
> outstanding features and is of really high quality.

Computers may come in lots of different shapes, and have lots of different purposes. AFAIK, neither the areas of usage, nor the price or "shapes" for the Pegasos is cut in stone.

IMO, the Pegasos offering *as of available today* could be seen as:

1) The best priced open PPC development desktop system. Many OS options. This should interest any non-Mac PPC developers.

2) A very reasonable priced component of *silent* "build it yourself" home server system, with low power consumption but still quite powerful thanks to its PPC processor and gigabit ethernet that goes directly into a very fast North Bridge (that's originally designed for high speed communication purposes) instead of going through the narrow PCI bus.

3) The guardian, a professional security solution consisting of both hardware, software and services, and very competitive priced as such.

And of course:
4) The best priced and most powerful Amiga NG solution that is still being developed (not an old OS under emulation)

Are there more that I forgot?

It could also (in it's current incarnation) become:

1) A general alternative desktop solution, both for home and for office. That would (IMO) require a lower price, which certainly could be achieved through volume and innovative business models (in the console market they sell the HW at loss and make the money on licenses instead. Only the imagination is the limit).

2) One of the highest-end (and most expensive?) STB's around.

3) An OEM component for any kind of device in any kind of shape that requires power without watts, performance without noise. Price? I would guess that is negotiable and depends on volume.

"Pegasos technology" (PPC hardware components, BIOS, OS's, applications, etc) may in the future be derived into (and all current SW developers will benefit):

1) Low cost custom built STB's. There were some interesting reading in the interview with b-plan in the amiga.org magazine issue #0.

2) The "Eclipsis" (the same interview), a 150x200 mm system, highly integrated with exciting technology (like WLAN), for use as a "display unit" (it's supposed to have a 16:9 aspect ratio screen, perfect for DVD's etc), as a web tablet, in laptop usage, or whatever. Seems to be a very suitable OEM component for lots of possible projects.

3) The Pegasos III, a high end PPC 970 (G5) computer, with a fast Marvell Northbridge that uses IBM's high speed Elastic Interface Technology. It will probably cost plenty, but be cheaper than high end Macs.

This last product is perhaps what you are looking for, Don Cox? But as I said, there are needs on certain market segments that one can make money from, other than those who allways wants desktop products with the "highest numbers" possible. Nothing is cut in stone, lots of products and areas of usage can be found, but you have to use some imagination.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 83 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 29-Jan-2004 19:45 GMT
Ordered mine. Have YOU done your duty today?
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 84 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 29-Jan-2004 21:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Anonymous):
>> most people can do everything they want with their "last year's model"

> Still, the performance gap between a 3.4 GHz PC and a 0.6 GHz Pegasos is
> unaccepatble (factor 8+). MorphOS alone runs fast but some applications need
> power regardless of the OS, such as DivX/DVD/MPEG2 encoding: It's not as if
> copying and re-encoding DVDs or DVB is an esoteric hobby, many people do
> that. What is 1 hour on a fast PC is eight hours on a Pegasos 1. What is the
> purpose of a silent multimedia machine if it is too slow for multimedia -
> related tasks?

Sure, I'm not saying that a 600MHz G3 is suitable for every single need on this planet. I would rather render a complex 3D scene on my PC than on my Pegasos. But heck, even my really fast PC has *unacceptable low* CPU performance for this application when compared to this: http://news.com.com/2100-1008-5070403.html?tag=nl. However, that one would be an overkill for home server usage or IRC chatting and mail reading, don't you think?

BTW, the G4 *did* bring more muscles under the hood. It will also be interesting to see what the Altivitec unit may do for all the general users daily DVD re-encoding needs ...
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 85 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 29-Jan-2004 21:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (hooligan/dcs):
> Ordered mine. Have YOU done your duty today?

Actually I have (a G3 this time, from GGS Data)! :-D
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 86 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jan-2004 23:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Anonymous):
>BTW, compare the price for a Pegasos 1GHz G4 BOARD against the price for a
>full 1GHz G4 eMac - you *sure* Pegasos is not expensive in comparison?

580EUR vs. 1199EUR for the SuperDrive eMac. :-\
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 87 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 30-Jan-2004 01:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (takemehomegrandma):
>Again, take a look at the PC market that totally stalled some year ago. >Everyone was thinking that the race would go on and on forever, people will >continue to demand faster and faster CPU's and higher "numbers" forever, like >USB3, Firewire1600, etc.

Last year we saw the release of the following;
1. AMD K7 Athlon XP 3200+ @ ~2.3Ghz.
2. AMD K8 Athlon 64 3200+ @ 2.0Ghz.
3. AMD K8 Athlon FX-51 @ 2.2Ghz.
4. Intel Pentium M @ 1.7Ghz.
5. nVIDIA nForce2 400 Ultra.
6. CL's Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS 7.1.
7. Intel Pentium 4 Extreme Edition @ 3.4Ghz (paper release).
8. Various K8 motherboard releases.

This year we saw the release of the following;
1. AMD K8 Athlon 64 3400+ @ 2.2Ghz.

Later this year.
1. PCI-Express motherboards.
2. nVIDIA nForce3 250.
3. nVIDIA IGP returns for K8 markets.
4. AMD Athlon FX-53 @2.4Ghz.
5. Intel CT(Yamhill) X86-64**

**http://news.com.com/2100-1006_3-5150336.html?tag=nefd_top
Note that the year 2003 is dominated by AMD related releases.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 88 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 30-Jan-2004 01:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (hammer):
>7. Intel Pentium 4 Extreme Edition @ 3.4Ghz (paper release).
clockspeed should be at 3.2Ghz...
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 89 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 30-Jan-2004 01:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (takemehomegrandma):
>starts up in a flash?
Note that modern X86 PC has hibernate features...
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 90 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 30-Jan-2004 01:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (takemehomegrandma):
>BTW, my current PC (motherboard and CPU) actually cost me more than my >Pegasos (motherboard and CPU).
One could look at the products that are just below the flag chips.

Instead of Athlon FX-51/nForce3 S940, there’s
1. Athlon 64 3200+/3000+/nForce3 S754/VIA K8T800 S754.
2. Athlon XP 3200+/3000+/2800+/nForce2/VIAKT600.

Instead of Pentium IV @3.2 EE/3.2C Ghz, there’s
1. Pentium IV (3.0/2.8/2.6Ghz)/i865/SIS 656/VIA PT800/P4X400.

The "flag chip" products are for mindshare battles while real battles for mainstream comes from mass marketed solutions.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 91 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 30-Jan-2004 02:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (takemehomegrandma):
> http://news.com.com/2100-1008-5070403.html?tag=nl.
Its just a cluster setup e.g. Beowolf Clusters or Windows 2K3 Enterprise Edition (configured for clusters).
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 92 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 30-Jan-2004 08:00 GMT
@ Hammer

I know that a great number of high performance PC components were released last year (I bought some myself), but that was not my point. That's not what I am talking about at all!
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 93 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 30-Jan-2004 08:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (hammer):
I know, I have used that myself (and also lost data when it fails), but IMO "Hibernate" is a poor mans second choice, the next best thing to fast booting. And actually, after the HW is initialized on both systems, my MorphOS on my Pegasos *boots faster* (real booting) than my Windows PC is restoring itself from hibernation.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 94 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 30-Jan-2004 08:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (hammer):
Not "just", it should have some serious rendering powers! ;-)

Anyway, my point was (if you missed that) that different areas of usage calls for different products, and all products are simply not suitable to all market segments only because they have the "highest numbers". There is no reason for a person who mainly uses his computer to check mail and surf the web once in a while to upgrade his old 1GHz system to a 3GHz+ with a *big humming fan*. In fact, since that person old computer probably has a big humming fan aswell (thanks to its age), the customer might actually want a brand new 1GHz system instead that's smaller, cooler and won't need a noise producing fan.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 95 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Grzegorz Kraszewski on 30-Jan-2004 08:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Francois Prowse):
Pegasos II has standard PCI (32-bit / 33 MHz) slots.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 96 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 30-Jan-2004 10:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (samface):
Where should we start? Ok, your *partial* copy of an AmigaDE statement Bill Buck.
TOTALLY out of context! I wish I had a search engine for ANN comments... I would
find TONS of examples...
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 97 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 30-Jan-2004 10:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (samface):
According to YOU, Amiga Inc doesn't have to pay the rebates yet, as the AmigaOne
available now is NOT an AmigaOne but an EarlyBird AmigaOne, released by Eyetech
alone... YES, these are *YOUR* words...
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 98 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jan-2004 13:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Anonymous):
Try again.

Note that you are chosing (quite deliberately) the MOST expensive eMac.

For $799 you get an eMac with 1GHz PowerPC G4, 128MB SDRAM, 40GB Ultra ATA drive, DVD/CD-RW drive, ATI Radeon 7500 with 32MB DDR video memory, 17" flatscreen CRT.

For $618.71 you get a PegasosII motherboard witha 1GHz G4 and NOTHING else. No RAM. No hard drive. No Combo drive. No monitor. No case. No keyboard/mouse. No graphics card. Nothing.

You still reckon Pegasos is cheaper than Mac hardware? You SURE about that?
You really reckon you can get a Radeon 7500, 128M RAM, 40G hard drive, DVD/CD-RW drive, case, psu, keyboard, mouse and 17" flat screen CRT all for under $181?
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 99 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Jan-2004 14:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (takemehomegrandma):
"This last product is perhaps what you are looking for, Don Cox? But as I said, there are needs on certain market segments that one can make money from, other than those who allways wants desktop products with the "highest numbers" possible. Nothing is cut in stone, lots of products and areas of usage can be found, but you have to use some imagination."

You are missing my point.

If somebody decides to buy a computer, they will in almost every case go to a shop that sells computers. Do they find Macs there? Highly unlikely. Do they find Amigas? Definitely not.

If consumer-minded, the person will buy a few magazines first to help them choose. Is the Mac mentioned in any of those? Highly unlikely, or if it is, only to be dismissed as a curiosity. Are the Amiga or the Pegasos mentioned? Never.

What could possibly make this person think of buying a Pegasos? He or she just wants a computer. The only reason somebody might buy some obscure model from a tiny company, such as an Acorn/RiscOS computer, would be if it was spectacularly better than an ordinary computer. Not just a bit better, but so much better that there could be no doubt.

Now, get away from retail consumer sales and look at industrial markets that might use a CHRP board with Linux. Now you have a completely different situation, and there is some hope of getting sales.
Pegasos sales restarting : Comment 100 of 156ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jan-2004 14:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Anonymous):
Note - I should point out that I have nothing against Pegasos - indeed, I do plan to buy one in the near future.

I am just pointing out that it IS expensive and it IS under powered and it IS old technology compared with what is available now. To try to claim otherwise is, quite frankly, absurd.

And once the AmigaOne is finally released (again - according to SpamFace, the AmigaOne has not yet been released - because if it had, AInc would have had to ship the money-off coupons, not to mention the T-shirts) then I expect the same arguments woudl apply to it (only moreso on teh expense front if current guidelines are anything to go by)
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