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[News] New OS4 screenshotsANN.lu
Posted on 03-Feb-2004 13:18 GMT by Rik Sweeney88 comments
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AmigaWorld reports that some more OS4 screenshots are available. See them here
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 1 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Feb-2004 12:30 GMT
Very nice! I am curious about the new icon set Martin is talking about. :-)
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 2 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Feb-2004 13:16 GMT
A bit parochial. But icons will be replaced before release, I have heard. Good.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 3 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Feb-2004 13:23 GMT
Btw, in another thread, there is a very sweet screenshot of a new OS. Whish OS4 would look a bit like that. The gadgets there remind me of gadtools, a nice simple flat look, which I like a lot more than gradiented shadowed buttons. It has great icons and the proportions are ok, no overly large buttons and monster title bars as in those OS4 screenshots.

http://www.rocklyte.com/athene/screenshots/omega2.html
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 4 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 03-Feb-2004 13:44 GMT
- New advertising banners (payed)

- New screenshots

- Two public show of a beta version (or so it is claimed)


Hummm...

There is something which is cooking into the pot...

Something for real at least...
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 5 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Feb-2004 13:44 GMT
Correction to the initial post - THIS is a link directly to the screenshots:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/features/index.php?op=r&cat_id=6&rev_id=44&sort_by
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 6 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Feb-2004 13:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
A bit parochial. But icons will be replaced before release, I have heard. Good.

Agree! Hopefully with real 32 bit png icons ...
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 7 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 03-Feb-2004 13:50 GMT
I jonestly don't see all that big an advantage with having 24/32 bit icons (and it
won't natively anyway, until Powericons are ported). It certainly is not a feature
that feels *essential* for an OS, anyway.
.
SlimJim
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 8 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by ece on 03-Feb-2004 13:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
No, according to one of the Friedens it will only be 256 colour icons...
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 9 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 03-Feb-2004 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (ece):
Every icon can have it's own 256-color palette though... and as icons are generally not having very many pixels (and so do not need very many palette
entries...).
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 10 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 03-Feb-2004 14:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Steffen Haeuser):
@Steffen

Good. That should be more than enough for now.
.
SlimJim
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 11 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 03-Feb-2004 14:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
"Btw, in another thread, there is a very sweet screenshot of a new OS. Whish OS4 would look a bit like that."

The window borders are nice. Very likely AOS 4 can be set to look like that.

The font is not good. Look at the terrible kerning (or lack of it) on combinations such as "Ta" or "ll". This makes it very hard to read.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 12 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Georg Steger on 03-Feb-2004 14:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Steffen Haeuser):
> Every icon can have it's own 256-color palette though... and as icons are generally not having very many pixels
> (and so do not need very many palette
> entries...).

What makes PNG icons look so good is in big part thank to alpha
blending/antialiasing, not necessarily the amount of colors.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 13 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 03-Feb-2004 14:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (SlimJim):
There are many benefits with PNG icons, most significant is that there are numerous icon collections you can utilize. Plus they are better looking of course, with transparacy and all ...
;-)

But *essential*? No I guess not. Monochrome 1-bit B/W is really *all you need*, and from that point of view even the standard OS3.0 color setup feels like a piece of art. Beauty is not essential, but it's sure nice!
:-)
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 14 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Tatu on 03-Feb-2004 14:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
You can make OS4 look like that if you want. You don't have to use gradients if you don't like them. OS4 UI is wery configurable. Personally I like current OS4 look wery much.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 15 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 03-Feb-2004 14:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (takemehomegrandma):
Mr. Takemehomegrandma wrote:

>There are many benefits with PNG icons,
>most significant is that there are numerous
>icon collections you can utilize.
>Plus they are better looking of course,
>with transparacy and all ...

Bah... with PNG icons you can't make "animated" icons as in previous Amiga OS releases

One of the most ***impressive*** features I ever saw in a OS (and other OSes can't still do it)

And it could be easy to implement again... if 2 PNG images were embedded into a newtype ".info" file

Strange no one ever think such a simple solution...
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 16 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Feb-2004 14:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (SlimJim):
> I jonestly don't see all that big an advantage with having 24/32 bit icons

Firstly, 32 bit icons have an alpha channel, say goodbye to pixelated edges. Secondly, true color icons tend to be resizable with good quality if the original image is big enough and anti-aliased (as most are courtesy of 16 million colors). MorphOS takes advantage of that by offering the user to choose the preferred icon size for the preferred screen mode; its 64x64 icons are scaled down dynamically. Thirdly, true color icons are easier to design and create and you don't risk image degradation during saving and conversion to 256 colors (assuming that you work with true color software). Fourthly, true color graphics is the native format for true color screen modes, so why not have true color icons right away and save the time for conversion? Finally, png is a nice format for icons: it's royalty-free, widely used and allows you to store information such as program name, stack size etc. I have absolutely no idea why it is not choosen as the default icon format in OS4. Taking the messy old icon format(s) into OS4 does not make much sense to me.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 17 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Nevin Zahar on 03-Feb-2004 14:39 GMT
More OS4 screenshots here (special thnx to Bodie bros.):
http://www.metroweekly.com/articles/attachments/2003-08-14_arts_and_entertainment_587_668.jpg
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 18 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 03-Feb-2004 14:54 GMT
These screenshots are very good looking! I love them!
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 19 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 03-Feb-2004 15:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
If I recall correctly, making the icons into a 24/32 bit format would require a
rewrite of graphics.library, something that is not planned for 4.0 but for a
later version (correct me if I'm wrong).
I do not doubt that PNG-icons have many technical advantages over the Amiga's
classical system (rescaling is probably the most useful advantage I've seen so
far).

But people are saying "It looks good, if only it had true colour icons ...", and
I still don't see this as any major beef at this point. The "leopard-icon" in
that screenshot is a converted 24bit PNG-icon, and I certainly aren't disturbed
by its looks - for now anyway. Updates to a more modern graphics system will
undoubtedly come, all in good time.
.
SlimJim
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 20 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Man on the moon on 03-Feb-2004 15:42 GMT
Surely the Video free-mem-left routine got something broken with it: or is it for real that now 1 window takes 1+ megs to open (1st win: 7 opened windows, 12 megs gone; 2nd win: 8 opened windows, 9 megs sucked)?
Let's not hope one of the feature-key they missed out from the list is that "max # of opened windows at same time = 16"! ;-)
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 21 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Piva on 03-Feb-2004 15:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Man on the moon):
Have you considered there may be three or four other screens behind the Workbench each with multiple windows open in them?
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 22 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Tatu on 03-Feb-2004 16:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Man on the moon):
Resolution like 128x1024 24bit or 32bit takes lots of gfx emory. 1280x1024x32bit is 5MB and that does not include bitmaps etc which might be in gfx memory.

And there might be more than one screen open, we just don't see it. We see only the active screen.

If you have used Classic Amiga with gfx-card then you know that you need lot's of memory.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 23 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Feb-2004 16:19 GMT
Enough of the pointless screenshots already.

Just release the product.

It is now TWO YEARS after the original release date Hyperion claimed when they took over the abandoned AOS4 project back in 2001 (and that's ignoring McEwen's infamous "on schedule and rockin'" lies which claimed November 2001 release date - we'll ignore those because we know that most things McEwen and Moss utter are lies).

Two years is one hell of an overrun on this project (and to think, those who said that AOS4 woudl not be out before Christmas 2003 were dismissed as FUDders...)

Just fix and release the fricking thing, and quite with the pointless screenshots.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 24 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Bodie on 03-Feb-2004 16:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Nevin Zahar):
Just because we are Aussies, doesn't mean we stars in "Puppetry of the Penis".

NEXT!
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 25 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Bodie on 03-Feb-2004 16:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Bodie):
FFS, that should be "we are"
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 26 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Tatu on 03-Feb-2004 16:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Anonymous):
It does not make sense to release it until it is done. It does not make sense to rush the project so that they don't have enough time to get everything right.
It's best for Hyperion and all of the users that they try to make it as ready as possible, even if it takes more time. If you waited all these years you sure can wait couple more months. And two years is nothing when we are talking about porting OS to new hardware. release dates change all the time in IT-industry.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 27 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 03-Feb-2004 17:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Tatu):
I was really angry after Ben hermans because of the "99% done", "in 2 weeks / months" etc
I was also particularly angry when a friend of mine was publicaly attacked because he posted on a french website in a thread a comment saying that OS4 would not run on Amigaone before the end of the year 2003.
However I feel much better since Hyperion has adopted the "When it is done" attitude.
The screenshots are nice and shows you what you can expect. Videos would even be better to appreciate the speed and some new features.
I think that this year can be great for the Amiga community. OS4 will hopefully hit the stores, the Pegasos will hopefully be available in large quantities with MorphOS 1.5 and AROS will definitely attract more users.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 28 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 03-Feb-2004 17:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Tatu):
"It's best for Hyperion and all of the users that they try to make it as ready as possible, even if it takes more time. If you waited all these years you sure can wait couple more months. And two years is nothing when we are talking about porting OS to new hardware. release dates change all the time in IT-industry."

It is also worth remembering that Apple, with much bigger resources, failed in their attempt to update their OS. They ended up using BSD with just a custom GUI. (It works, but I'm sure it is not what they originally wanted.)

Hyperion seem to be on the brink of succeeding at a very tough task - porting and updating an OS from the 80s, while keeping almost all its good features.

I say "Hyperion", but really it is many of the best coders remaining in the Amiga community. Let's hope a full credits list is published saying who worked on what.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 29 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 03-Feb-2004 17:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Christophe Decanini):
>I was really angry after Ben hermans because of the "99% done", "in 2 weeks / >months" etc

Get off it Decannini. As I pointed out before, your indignation is quite selective.

How many delays have we seen with the Pegasos 2? Or MorphOS?

Please ...

Be a grown man and accept that if even multi billion dollar companies like Microsoft keep pushing back release dates for their LongHorn operating system, surely you can understand that the same can happen to Hyperion.

The fact of the matter is that people who are 1) under NDA 2) no software developers should refrain from speculating.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 30 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Feb-2004 18:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (SlimJim):
>If I recall correctly, making the icons into a 24/32 bit format would require a rewrite of graphics.library

It would require a small payment to the girl that implemented such icons for AmigaOS already ;-) I don't know how she did it but I doubt it is in graphics. (cyber-)graphics has no problems with true color. It is more likely to be in the workbench library or icon library (icon library would be best but I recall it's not possible without breaking compatibility?).
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 31 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Feb-2004 18:34 GMT
> 1 window takes 1+ megs to open

Well, if it smart refresh and the screen depth is 32 bit and the size is 1024x768 pixel (on a 1280x1024 screen) and it is fully obscured, then it even needs 3 MB RAM ;) That has nothing to do with OS, just buffering and simple math. Much much of that RAM hopefully is allocated from the gfx card's 32/64/128? MB RAM (which would otherwise be useless). Anyway, it's good to open SIMPLEREFRESH windows on true color screens. MorphOS enforces SIMPLEREFRESH for MUI. I would assume that OS4 defaults to SIMPLEREFRESH, too, in the final version. SMARTEFRESH can be faster and OS4 is known to have a performance problem at this time due to 68k graphics library. That might be a motivation to sacrifice a bit of RAM for more speed.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 32 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 03-Feb-2004 18:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> Get off it Decannini. As I pointed out before, your indignation is quite selective.

How entertaining!

I was just whining about people whining about whining, and along comes a selectively-indignant post about selective indignation.

You know, we've missed your peculiar brand of humour around these parts, Ben - do keep the laughs coming.

Gregg
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 33 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 03-Feb-2004 18:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Here you go. Everytime I feel a bit better about the situation there is someone to screw it up. I have just tried to say that I understand people that went through the same frustration I did and that now I have settled down.

"Get off it Decannini. As I pointed out before, your indignation is quite selective."

As I pointed out before when someone say something you don't like you do mispell his name on purpose.

"How many delays have we seen with the Pegasos 2? Or MorphOS? "

Definitely some. How many people left the community because Genesi was late ?
How many left because of OS4 "On schedule and rocking" ?
If you can answer these questions you get my point.
By announcing OS4 so soon and postponing it every couple of month you killed what left of the classic market and you ruined the user base.

"Be a grown man and accept that if even multi billion dollar companies like Microsoft keep pushing back release dates for their LongHorn operating system, surely you can understand that the same can happen to Hyperion."

I wonder who needs to grow up Ben. If I had a product to sell to the people reading this forum I would never do such a post as yours ...
When Microsoft or intel announce a product and are late it does not hurt them too much (as if people had another choice ...). When you do in a such fragile/small market it really hurts.

"The fact of the matter is that people who are 1) under NDA 2) no software developers should refrain from speculating. "

The fact has been proven that you didn't need to be software developer to know that porting AmigaOS to PPC would take about two years. It has been said many times since the death of Commodore. Of course you didn't know. I guess it is just another case of "intelligence failure".
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 34 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Feb-2004 19:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Damnit, do something about ANN's security! An obnoxious ten-year-old has hacked Ben Hermans' trusted user account AGAIN!
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 35 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 03-Feb-2004 19:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Christophe Decanini):
Ben, Christophe, guys, come on, this is helping no one.

Christophe has a point about the delays, yes, they are unpleasant, but unfortunatly, inavoidable.
Ben also has a point that even giants like Microsoft have delays.

There's nothing to be gained with repeating the same old things at every oportunity.

Christophe, i'm certain that Ben doesn't mistype your name on perpose, as i'm certain that you don't want to attack Ben or Hyperion, emotions have been running high & low all over the place for years now, and it's time we *all* grow up.

Cheers
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 36 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 03-Feb-2004 20:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Christophe Decanini):
My comment was aimed at comment 23.
The point was that I have been frustrated too (maybe I should not have told why as it obviously started another flame with Ben) and that it is time to settle down (if Ben is willing to do so aswell).
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 37 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 03-Feb-2004 20:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
>> SMARTEFRESH can be faster and OS4 is known to have a performance problem at this time due to 68k graphics library. That might be a motivation to sacrifice a bit of RAM for more speed.

meybe your information is outdated,


@Hyperion
Transparency way? lots of old programs managed this by copying the background to window,
question how will this effect the performance of the system? will the system spend more time on drawing non transparent windows,
or will this only effect the windows whit transparency enabled?

(Plese do NOT go MacOSX shadows, rendered mouse pointer whit lighting, and real-time water effects in the background whit reflections, WE DO NOT NEED THIS THINGS!!!)

One more thing, just get it done. NOW!!! my AmigaOne is waiting.....
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 38 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 03-Feb-2004 21:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"Get off it Decannini. As I pointed out before, your indignation is quite selective.

How many delays have we seen with the Pegasos 2? Or MorphOS?"

Ben, the complaint is not about the delays but about the absurdly optimistic announcements of how soon it would be finished. No doubt this was because neither you nor fleecy had any idea how much work would be involved in porting and updating an operating system.

But it has led to a good deal of frustration and annoyance among people who believed your predictions and bought expensive hardware a year before they could use it.

It's not a major crime, but I do think the complaints are reasonable.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 39 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 03-Feb-2004 21:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Don Cox):
> But it has led to a good deal of frustration and annoyance among people who
> believed your predictions and bought expensive hardware a year before they could
> use it.

And you think that was an unwanted effect? ;-)
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 40 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 03-Feb-2004 21:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Fabio Alemagna):
I think the situation got f*cked up alot sooner, infact, it probably got fubar when Amiga Inc were still looking for someone to do AOS4.

The A1 was started during the time Haage & Partner were going to do it, but as we all know, that little plan didn't go up, so Hyperion took over (well, they basicly had to restart from scratch) and their initial goals also did change.

Cheers
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 41 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 03-Feb-2004 21:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Anonymous):
What is being released though is more like what the original AmigaOS4.2 would have been specified as being.

It just seems that it was an all-or-nothing thing to PPC-ise AmigaOS, and that is why it was delayed. That, and the tiny amount of money in the Amiga market that makes this more of a labour of love than anything that will generate real revenue, hence Hyperion had to take on other jobs during the development in order to live.

I am pro AmigaOS, but I certainly don't think that Amiga Inc. are that great though. They got burnt by their claims. Then again, I don't really like Genesi any more, so at least I'm fair.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 42 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Steve on 03-Feb-2004 21:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
@Ben Hermans
"How many delays have we seen with the Pegasos 2? Or MorphOS?"

Pegasos 1 with MorphOS:

- Originaly announced for March 2002 (announcement made at Cologne 2001)
- Really available in August 2002 ("Betastester Program" launched at Slash Party 4 in the beginning of August in France)

=> Delay: 5 Months

Pegasos 2 with MorphOS:

- Originaly announced for September 2003
- Really available in End of December 2003/Beginning Jan 2004

=> Delay: 4 Months

AmigaONE:

- Originaly announced for Summer 2001
- Really available in November 2002 (source: Eyetech website - http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaone/)

=> Delay: About 15 months


AmigaOS 4:

- Originaly announced for March 2002 (announcement at Cologne 2001)
- Not yet available

=> Delay for now: 23 Months and still counting...


You asked, you got it ;o)
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 43 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Feb-2004 22:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>How many delays have we seen with the Pegasos 2? Or MorphOS?

http://www.amiga.com/corporate/041201-mcewen.shtml
Less than 2 years...

You are late, and you 're claming 2 more weeks to make people wait for OS4 whereas they could choose MorphOS just now.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 44 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 04-Feb-2004 00:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> How many delays have we seen with the Pegasos 2? Or MorphOS?

Delays are always annoying for someone who is eagerly waiting to get a certain product, and it doesn't matter if that's OS4/A1 or Pegasos/MorphOS.

As you said, delays can happen to everyone.

But put it like this, I have personally owned 1 Pegasos with April1, 1 Pegasos 1 with April 2, and one Pegasos 2. There was also a G4 release for Peg1 (which I never got myself). I have aslo used all MorphOS versions between 1.0 and 1.4. And all this only in between christmas 2002 and christmas 2003.

Some other people *are still* waiting for *anything*, and they have been waiting for the whole time. Just to bring a little perspective to your post!
;-)
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 45 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Borsari on 04-Feb-2004 00:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Raffaele):
I've seen animated icons on an IBM PC running OS2 or some workspace manager for windows (like BOB) when I worked for CompUSA in 1994

Bill "tekmage" Borsari
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 46 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Mr. Anonymous on 04-Feb-2004 01:25 GMT
You know these are just done up in Photoshop and Illustator!
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 47 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by Mr. Anonymous on 04-Feb-2004 01:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (takemehomegrandma):
yeah, but your talking about people that are using "borrowed" code and don't have the complete skill set to write the low level stuff to integrate what they have at the top/mid levels to the modernish hardware. Which is why Morphos is still a beta.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 48 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by redfox on 04-Feb-2004 02:05 GMT
Very nice screenshots.

---------------
redfox
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 49 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by matta bat on 04-Feb-2004 04:43 GMT
I'm sick and tired of screenshots - you could make them up in PPaint for petes sake!
A usable beta (or animation capture) would be more like it.
New OS4 screenshots : Comment 50 of 88ANN.lu
Posted by bobpuegot on 04-Feb-2004 06:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Christophe Decanini):
I was also particularly angry when a friend of mine was publicaly attacked because he posted on a french website in a thread a comment saying that OS4 would not run on Amigaone before the end of the year 2003.


Ben Yoris? Didn't he say "not before the end of 2002?"
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