19-Apr-2024 13:55 GMT.		 UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 86 items in your selection [1 - 50] [51 - 86]
[News] First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0bANN.lu
Posted on 10-Feb-2004 06:48 GMT by Raffaele (Edited on 2004-02-10 14:22:00 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä)86 comments
View flat
View list
Here you can find a brief report [from the Amiga North Thames meeting]. Unfortunately the report gives only a few informations. [Here's another report from the NCSCAUG meeting.] I forwarded these news from amiganews.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 1 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Red Melons on 10-Feb-2004 06:59 GMT
"First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b at Newcastle"

The Newcastle OS4.0 demo isn't until 21st February :)
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 2 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 10-Feb-2004 07:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Red Melons):
Whoops... Forgive me...

I read ANT and I believe it was Amiga Newcastle Tour...

Please Christian can you edit the two posts and merge them in one?

Sorry

;-P
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 3 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 10-Feb-2004 12:39 GMT
Thank you, Teemu.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 4 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by DoomMaster on 10-Feb-2004 20:58 GMT
Seems a lot more complete then Mos is at it's current state.

_DoomMaster_
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 5 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 10-Feb-2004 22:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (DoomMaster):
>Seems a lot more complete then Mos is at it's current state.

Absolutely! OS4 sounds incredible, truly amazing. I can only imagine the fun to be had running AHI, notepad and hard disk prefs. Well done to all involved!
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 6 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 10-Feb-2004 22:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Lando):
Yet again, Lando enlightens us with his excellent and insightful commentary! Thanks again, and keep up the good work!
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 7 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 10-Feb-2004 22:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (DoomMaster):
I can not imagine how must be glazly fast with 68k gfx routines!
Never see a so incredible OS! Really so superior! Oh better than Qnx! Better than Aix!
Why Aos4 is in Wired vapour list?
It is now the most complete Alpha (it was called beta? well with all incomplete part around, better call it alpha) we never seen.

PS
LOL
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 8 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 10-Feb-2004 22:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Eva):
68k routines? It was stated almost 2 months ago that the graphics.library was 100% PPC native. So which is true, is it native or is it not?
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 9 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 10-Feb-2004 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Nate Downes):
Picasso96 is 68k...graphics.library is PPC native...

Anyway Picasso96 is a temporary solution..Scitech SNAP! drivers will be be ready sooner or later...
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 10 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 11-Feb-2004 02:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Anonymous):
the description in these reports make it seem very alpha...still haven't integrated petunia? IDE still running in pio mode.

With that said, if they release it to the public, its beta, I don't care what condition its in.

it'll be a milestone for sure, and I hope its soon, even if I don't really expect it to be soon. I know one thing, someday when they do release it, it will be a surprise.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 11 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 11-Feb-2004 03:01 GMT
I hope to see a more complete report in some days...

Not only impressions, but loading time, the compatibility of the programs running on it... How it performs on internet with its new IP stack...

(and regarding impressions, something about the stability, how the mouse responds, something about changing of the interface, and maybe a formatting of an HD)
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 12 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 11-Feb-2004 04:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (DoomMaster):
I see the class clown is still in residence....well, made me laugh even if that wasn't the intent.

Steve
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 13 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 05:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Anonymous):
>Scitech SNAP! drivers will be be ready sooner or later... Ah, just like MOS' Firewire stack that will also be ready sooner or later...
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 14 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 05:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (MarkTime):
>With that said, if they release it to the public, its beta, I don't care what condition its in. How about that: "You can only make a first impression once!"
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 15 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 11-Feb-2004 06:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Anonymous):
SNAP will be ported as P96 drivers, not the other way around.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 16 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 07:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Ole-Egil):
RoadShow roxx even on 68k, it is the fastest TCPIP stack ever made for Amiga
(easy to configure even without gui, dunno why I ever think Miami is good)
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 17 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 11-Feb-2004 08:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
> it is the fastest TCPIP stack ever made for Amiga

Well, thank the BSD crew for that ;-)
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 18 of 86ANN.lu
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: trolling
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 19 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 11-Feb-2004 09:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Anonymous):
Its comments like that which make me think its not worth reading ANN any more.

To be honest the last 3 years have been a drag for *everyone* - but can you honestly say you have not read anything in the last 3 years that suggested that Bill was wrong/just telling a lie/talking about something else?
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 20 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (DoomMaster):
Well, half of the OS in 68k, impressive !
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 21 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 11-Feb-2004 09:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Anonymous):
And you gotta be glad that it doesnt have *everything* a modern OS has?
Bloat? Style over substance? BSODs? Media player phoning home? A plague of virii? ...
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 22 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 09:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Ben):
Microsoft make billions, Amiga Inc & Hyperion make peanuts. but hey the OS must be shit to sell millions of copies.

What is OS4 aimed at 1000 users? LOL
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 23 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 11-Feb-2004 09:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
>Well, half of the OS in 68k

No, it isn't (Doesn't that get boring, posting the same nonsense over and over
again ? Hoping that at least 10% of people who read it will believe it, if it
gets claimed often enough ?).

Steffen
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 24 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-Feb-2004 10:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Fabio Alemagna):
Maybe you know this, AmiTCP comes from BSD as well,

The different between AmiTCP and RoadShow is that RoadShow is newer and better ported, whit AmigaOS in mind, and not just a patchy recompile.

Before you make a full of your self read os.amiga.com/cam roadshow, there a lots of information way it better then the old TCP stacks on the Amiga, and stop being so negative when it comes to AmigaOS4.0 and it’s new features.

We most tank Olaf Barthel for grate job porting it, not just the BSD teem.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 25 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 10:26 GMT
Hello

Happily we jolling but
- is on-board floppy controller working? with working diskchange detection?
- is on-board audio controller working?
- is RoadShow 100% AmiTCP compatible? no compatibility problems?

Thanks! OS is progressing but need INFORMATION.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 26 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Olaf Barthel on 11-Feb-2004 10:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Fabio Alemagna):
Fabio, you ought to know better.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 27 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-Feb-2004 10:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Eva):
I do know way you comment on subject that do not interest you, however yes, I’m desponded in the low level of progress, I expected full DMA support for VIA and every thing PPC by now, and only testing to be done.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 28 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 10:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Steffen Haeuser):
">Well, half of the OS in 68k

No, it isn't"

Very true.

However, the other half is ;-)
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 29 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-Feb-2004 10:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Steffen Haeuser):
Can you please clarify what is done and what is not done!

How the hell can Graphic.library work whit out lowlevel library’s like Picasso96/SNAP?
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 30 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Frank on 11-Feb-2004 10:42 GMT
People making a song and dance about OS4 "comming soon" are just misleading people. that progress is rubbish for something Fleecy and Bill-mc was talking about 3 years ago.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 31 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-Feb-2004 10:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
What part is that?
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 32 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Richi on 11-Feb-2004 10:46 GMT
Os4 Rules!
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 33 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 10:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Steffen Haeuser):
Well, test it by myself ...
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 34 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 11:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Frank):
Well, OS4 for the AmigaOne-1200/4000 will _never_ be finished, you know ;-)

That's what Bill 'n Fleecy were talking 'bout mid 2001, 'only' a recompile of
3.x away (because an 'oldworld' Amiga would still be connected providing the
chipset).

Hyperion only started in Nov 2001, cannot blame them for not being ready that
same year with added work of removing the chipset dependency etc., can you?

Sorry, just bothers me that some people intentiously seem to "forget" where
we've come from. Fog of history, eh? Or is it Alzheimer.. :-(
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 35 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 12:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Kjetil):
"Work has started on gradually migrating Picasso 96 to PPC." As P96 has been
written in 68k assembler this is more a complete rewrite of P96 than just
a porting effort, so I guess this will still take some time until it can be
released together with the pre release (same with UDMA IDE/USB drivers
according to CAM; don't know about the AC97 driver for the AmigaOne audio).
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 36 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 11-Feb-2004 12:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Nate Downes):
You prefer to read EVAs statements as the truth, then?

Seriously, that's just silly.

graphics.library is PPC, P96 is 68k. Hyperion have stated so repeatedly these last weeks, afaik.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 37 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 11-Feb-2004 12:36 GMT
" Sorry, just bothers me that some people intentiously seem to "forget" where
we've come from. Fog of history, eh? Or is it Alzheimer.. :-("

Will you please check out Ben Hermans' posts here regarding the state of OS4 from 2002 november to 2003 february. The impression you get from those posts seem to reflect that OS4 was more ready and closer to being finished then than it seems now.

Of course it's just me, and my bogus impressions.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 38 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Olaf Barthel on 11-Feb-2004 12:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous):
> Hello
>
> Happily we jolling but
> - is on-board floppy controller working? with working diskchange detection?
> - is on-board audio controller working?
> - is RoadShow 100% AmiTCP compatible? no compatibility problems?
>
> Thanks! OS is progressing but need INFORMATION.

Well, not being a hardware guy I can't tell you anything about the disk and
audio issues, but there's a thing or two I know about the TCP/IP stack.
Please read the following carefully as I am trying to give an accurate answer
which, if taken out of context, is easily misunderstood. Are you with me so
far? Good.

"Roadshow" is 100% compatible with "AmiTCP" as far as the AmigaOS API is
concerned (as defined by AmiTCP V3 and V4). This means that your typical
application software will work with "Roadshow" as it did with "AmiTCP",
"Miami", "Miami Deluxe" and probably also "TermiteTCP". This is what I
tried to achieve, and, to the best of my knowledge, this is what you get.
The compatibility does not extend across the original BSD ioctl() and
socket() APIs where certain incompatibilities exist with respect to
routing and naming of interfaces. This is only natural because several
architectural changes took place during the transition from the Net/2
TCP/IP code (which "AmiTCP" is based upon) and the 4.4BSD-Lite2 code (which
"Roadshow" is based upon). What does it mean? This means that the original
"ifconfig" and "route" utilities (and the "netstatus" script) from the
"AmiTCP" distribution will not work with "Roadshow" and cannot be made to
work. As far as I know, this is the only point where backwards compatibility
completely falls apart. Is this an issue? I doubt it. "Roadshow" comes with
its own set of utilities which perform the same services as the older
programs from the "AmiTCP" distribution would perform. Incidentally, the
same restrictions also applied to "Miami", which, using a much more
recent code base than "AmiTCP", cannot be used with the old "AmiTCP"
administration tools either.

This is the accurate answer. Please read it carefully and try to understand
it. I am happy to answer any further questions on the TCP/IP stack which
there might be.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 39 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by vortexau on 11-Feb-2004 12:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
< Microsoft make billions, . . . but hey the OS must be shit to sell millions of copies.

As if Microsoft customers have any choice, discretion, or any discernment? Ha! Ha!

< What is OS4 aimed at 1000 users? LOL

No! (YOU didn't really think that no more motherboards will be manufactured? I guess YOU must be like a typical MS customer . . . and lack the power of discernment.)
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 40 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Pete on 11-Feb-2004 13:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (vortexau):
> YOU didn't really think that no more motherboards will be manufactured?

At that price i hope not, nearly $1000 for a motherboard is just a con and Hyperion will end up loosing out in AOS4 sales thanks to the folk at Eyetech for being so stupid using MAI boards.

This aint the 1990s anymore.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 41 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 13:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Olaf Barthel):
What do you do to ensure that Roadshow includes fixes for the many problems found since Lite2 ?
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 42 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2004 13:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Pete):
Does economy of scale mean nothing to you?

Tell you what, you produce PPC boards at competitive prices to x86 and we'll see how long your company lasts.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 43 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 11-Feb-2004 13:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Kjetil):
"How the hell can Graphic.library work without lowlevel libraries like Picasso96/SNAP?"

P96 works, but in emulation, so it is just slower than it will be finally.

SNAP will increase the number of cards supported but there are drivers for several graphics cards now.

The computer would work fine if 98% of the OS was emulated (as in Amithlon). Converting to native only increases speed, it doesn't make more things work.

Also, please remember that AmigaOS is modular. You can make many changes to a module without affecting the rest of the OS, provided the interfaces stay the same.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 44 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 11-Feb-2004 14:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Ole-Egil):
I don't trust eva's, or really anyones, comments as far as I could throw them. I asked a q to get some clarity. Had some folk explain the arrangement, and now thuroughly muddling the situation in the process.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 45 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 11-Feb-2004 14:03 GMT
An Ok preview peek at OS4 in its current stage. A bigger review anywhere?

Seems to have long way since I last tried it.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 46 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 11-Feb-2004 14:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Olaf Barthel):
Ok, I do have a question for you, where can we, the lowly 68k Amigans, get Roadshow for ourselves? I saw a demo of it, and have wanted to purchase it since, but can't get information on how to do this.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 47 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 11-Feb-2004 14:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Pete):
"At that price i hope not, nearly $1000 for a motherboard is just a con "

It is a very high price but it is not a con. It is Eyetech trying to cover the actual cost of getting a board made in tiny numbers for a market that expects a lot of support. Support is extremely expensive.

If Eyetech start making a loss on the boards, they will and should stop selling them. They are under no moral or legal obligation to subsidise the Amiga community.

BBRV had some spare cash which they were prepared to put into kickstarting the Pegasos project. My bet is that so far they have seen a substantial loss.
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 48 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 11-Feb-2004 14:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Kjetil):
Actually they can quite easily.

Something I pointed out on the Phoenix list was that the AmigaOS's API allows for some unique things when it comes to OS development, you can replace the system one-module-at-a-time and nothing will break if you do it right. That means (pending a good 68k emulator) you can have whole segments of the system running in 68k and not have things break. MorphOS did just this, if you'd recall, using the ROM image from the A4k/A1200 motherboard it was running on for the 68k modules, replacing them one-at-a-time until the system was replaced with workalikes.

So, to steal an old Commodore ad-line: "Only Amiga makes it possible"
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 49 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 11-Feb-2004 14:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (hooligan/dcs):
"Seems to have long way since I last tried it."

If you sit and watch it, nothing seems to move, but if you go away for a few months, there are big changes when you return.

This (from 1965) is worth reading.

Copland
First impressions of the Amiga OS 4.0b : Comment 50 of 86ANN.lu
Posted by Tatu on 11-Feb-2004 14:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Nate Downes):
Picasso96 is not PPC yet. Graphics libraries = graphics.library etc + picasso96.
Anonymous, there are 86 items in your selection [1 - 50] [51 - 86]
Back to Top