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[News] Eyetech Site UpdatedANN.lu
Posted on 15-Feb-2004 00:10 GMT by Raffaele204 comments
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Take a look at this page on Eyetech site. Some good news: Amiga Micro A1 preproduction boards in stock; some bad news: Eyetech reducing its presence in the Amiga Market. Link to the images of Micro A1 pre-production board

Link to the news of the Update of the site

With the announce that Eyetech is reducing its presence into the Amiga world (Classical).

Yes, its true.
After much nagging from our customers we've finally started the restructuring of the site, in line with our transition from Amiga retailer to wholesaler of PPC-based board level products, notably the AmigaOne range. As well as supplying AmigaOne products to other dealers we will be spending an increasing amount of time directly promoting PPC-based board products into industrial and commercial applications running OS4 (out of preference) or Linux, as appropriate.


and

This refocusing on the PPC-board market also means that our 'Classic Amiga' product range has also been rationalised and reduced, to better reflect what is now available ex-stock. We will not be purchasing any other 'Classic Amiga' stocks in from now on, so 'when its gone, its gone' as they say in B&Q.

Link with the announce of availability of limited quantities of pre-production Micro-A1 boards

Specifications:

These pre-production MicroA1 boards have the following specifications:

Size: 17cm x 17cm x 3.5cm high (excluding PCI riser card)

CPU Module: 8cm x 8cm standard AmigaOne module - 750Fx @ 800MHz

Memory: Single socket SODIMM. 256MB PC133 CL3 supplied

Graphics: Radeon 7000 series, 32MB non-shared memory on board

BIOS: Uboot 1.0.0 socketed, with OS4 enabling code

Southbridge: VIA 82C686B

Ethernet: 10/100 with 3COM 920-ST06 controller

Sound: Cmedia CMI8738 6 ch controller

IDE: 44 way (2.5") and 40 way (3.5") connectors UDMA100

Legacy I/O: Parallel, 2 x PS/2, game/MIDI sockets

Video I/O: 15 pin SVGA, SVHS (miniDIN), composite video (RCA)

Sound: 3.5mm mike, aux and speaker jacks

Fast I/O: RJ45 10/100 ethernet, 2x USB1.0 ; 2 x USB1.0 headers

PCI: PCI-32 slot expandable to 3 x slots via a suitable riser

The board will run with Debian or Yellow Dog Linux, or OS4.0 when available. These boards are not designed to be distributed to the general public and therefore do not fall within the scope of the 'Earlybird' offer.

Finally we have had a few boards made up with a suitable Morex MiniITX case. These cases have space for slimline (notebook style) CD/DVDROM and floppy/flashcard drives, for 1 x 3.5" hard drive and for a single PCI card (using the riser card supplied). They have front panel sound and USB connectors, and a built-in 12v to ATX PSU converter. They are supplied with a universal voltage IEC socket to 12v DC adapter.


Link with the announce of last opportunity to purchase AmigaOne G4 EarlyBird System

Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 1 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by oGALAXYo on 14-Feb-2004 23:37 GMT
I think Genesi, bPlan, Eyetech, AINC, Hyperion, ... as well as the other remaining companies are starting to make a final cut under the old stuff and looking forward to the global change for PowerPC architectures which is a good sign.

The Amiga as it was will go one day (when I don't know) but for companies this is a clear sign that they are not willing to maintain and support the old stuff anymore because of the hig price for maintainance and stockholding, repair and so on. They try to expand with the PowerPC architecture to support a bigger and larger market, be it AmigaOS, Linux etc. with an allround Hardwaresolution.

See it as the final cut that Apple made long years ago. This doesn't mean the companies disappear, that means they have matured and deal with a new way. The old Amiga as good the Hardware was, as long we followed it can NOT compete with nowadays requirements anymore. The price for maintainance and addons are far to high for what they do.

Be thankful they made a cut under it and lookign forward to a better future. A future where you can go in any store and buy addational stuff for low consumer price. You can go into a store and buy a CD-Rom drive for just 10 euros rather than an Amiga specific ones for 50 euros, you can go out and buy some random Graphiccard or random RAM modules instead of ZIP modules or addon card that supports the new RAM modules etc. You now buy a normal standardized ATX motherboard (be it Pegasos, Theron, AmigaONE or whatever) you buy the case of your choice and continue living the Amiga life as we all do.

This imo is a good sign and the right way to go. Now we only need to get the community normalized again so we can work hand in hand for a better future. Be it AOS4, MorphOS or AROS.

greetings,

oGALAXYo
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 2 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 15-Feb-2004 02:37 GMT
Not wanting to sound all negative, but...
Please someone donate a new digital camera to Eyetech. Those pics look like they were taken with a $19.99 webcam in poor light.

And get someone to find a new case... digging out an old Sanyo DVD player doesn't really cut it.

Seriously if you want to attract people you need to have style. You need to instill that "wow" factor in people when they first see your product.

But anyway, what is the price of the board?
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 3 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Feb-2004 03:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Lando):
> You need to instill that "wow" factor in people when they first see your product. But anyway, what is the price of the board?

It might be in the wow-that's-expensive category ;) Nice board but I truly hope that USB 1.x is an error, that just makes no sense for an all-in-one baord. USB is too important in the absence of PCI slots.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 4 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald St-Maurice on 15-Feb-2004 03:12 GMT
My only complaint is that they should have left out the legacy ports (PS/2, Parallel ports.) And replace those with more USB ports and at least 1 Firewire port.

I agree with the USB 2.0 comment.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 5 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Feb-2004 04:46 GMT
Where does it say exactly that Eyetech is reducing its presence in the Amiga market? It seems that it's increasing its presence in other markets. Some people have to much imagination.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 6 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Feb-2004 06:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
The board is a pre-release, so there's no guarantee that the USB 1 ports will stay, they might be USB 2 in the final release version. There is also going to be an expansion card where the "personal computer" peripherals like firewire are going to be, and finally there is a PCI slot, Alan has said several times you can plug a PCI riser with up to three slots in it.

It's smaller, but it's far from useless.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 7 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Feb-2004 07:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
I was(am) always pro AmigaOS4 but I have to say that I wish Eyetech to be like Genesi. They know how to spend money, promote and support they products.
They actively support porting other OSes for Pegasos/PegasosII (there is still just Linux [fully working ????? DMA...] available for AmigaOne). Eyetech website looks ugly (desin..., btw check the microA1 pic created by blind photographer:-),
pricing politics ->no more comments
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 8 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Feb-2004 08:26 GMT
Let's test to see in this version of the ARticiaS works !!
I doubt !
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 9 of 204ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Trolling
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 10 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Feb-2004 08:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (raged):
What about the articia that didn't work for Tratech?

What about the articia that didn't work for Terrasoft?

What about the articia that didn't work for Invictus?
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 11 of 204ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 7 (Anonymous):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Trolling
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 12 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Rob on 15-Feb-2004 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (raged):
Eyetech doesn't have a huge parent company (or personal wealth) to
suck funds from in order to subsidise low production run specialist
hardware in order to sell it at cut-down prices.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 13 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by raged on 15-Feb-2004 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Rob):
They doesn't have huge parent company and this is according to you explanation why they don't have decent web page, right?

Eyetech's web page it's a shame. Besides AmigaOne and AmigaOS 4 should be promoted on Amiga Inc. web page because most people will search information about new Amiga on this site.

So don't tell me that Alan Redhouse thinks about good promotion of AmigaOne.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 14 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 15-Feb-2004 09:52 GMT
The board is nice, the photograph is ugly. The advantage of Eyetech being a reseller of 3rd party hardware, that they can sell whatever will be available later, the drawback will always be the price tag.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 15 of 204ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 9 (raged):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Follow up to trolling
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 16 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Feb-2004 09:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
bug -> big file !
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 17 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 15-Feb-2004 10:41 GMT
Finally the Eyetech website is updated! With really good news :-)
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 18 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 15-Feb-2004 10:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (ikir):
And they removed all the old bad news and embarrasing Amiga products, too!

Congratulations for Eyetech are in order, they finally decided to drop
the Amiga market like the dead weight that it really is :)

=Neko=
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 19 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by raged on 15-Feb-2004 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
You described very well known bug in Linux ide driver.

I'm curious what you say when you see AmigaOne and AmigaOS 4 with enabled DMA without any error? The same hardware, the same Articia but good software.

BTW. Eyetech should fix this ide driver for Linux if they add Linux distrubution to AmigaOne. Eyetech, what are you waiting for? Hyperion doesn't fix this Linux driver because they are working at AmigaOS not Linux.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 20 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 15-Feb-2004 10:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (raged):
BORING!

Get a new story to tell.

=Neko=
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 21 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Feb-2004 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (raged):
Well,

So strange, DMA seens to be still disable in current OS4 AOne ide.device ? :-)
I do think they are lying, they did before...

First it was a well known problem with VIA southbridge init, then this stupid story which transform a bug in a feature ...
Open your eyes, please !!!

And even if it's a feature, why does it take them 1.5 years to find it out !!!! Wonderful feature are always undocumented !!

Bye
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 22 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 15-Feb-2004 11:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Neko):
You should do the same. Stop fudding in every A1/OS4 topic. If you don't like them, don't post.

Good job again to Eyetech!
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 23 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by raged on 15-Feb-2004 11:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (ikir):
He doesn't like them because more people bought AmigaOne than Pegasos 1 and Pegasos 2 together and he doesn't understand this.

Nobody buy Pegasos 2 if AmigaOne price will be a little cheaper.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 24 of 204ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 9 (raged):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Follow up to trolling
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 25 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-Feb-2004 12:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Neko):
"Congratulations for Eyetech are in order, they finally decided to drop
the Amiga market like the dead weight that it really is :)"

Actually they decided and announced this several months ago. They want to concentrate on wholesale sales of the motherboards.

The old Amiga bits and pieces will still be available while stocks last.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 26 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Feb-2004 12:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Don Cox):
There's "no problem" in Amiga OS because after nearly two and a half years there are no DMA drivers for the A1 in Amiga OS.

Claims that Amiga OS isn't affected are based on _blind optimism_ and nothing else.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 27 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 15-Feb-2004 12:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (raged):
You described very well known bug in Linux ide driver.

Linux works on PegI, worked same buggy way like on A1 without April, with April it is stable and passes md5sum test. Other developers ditched Articia. Conclussion?
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 28 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Feb-2004 12:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
Invictus?

Cheers
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 29 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by raged on 15-Feb-2004 12:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (brotheris):
Conclussion: April patches broken ide driver in Linux.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 30 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Feb-2004 12:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (brotheris):
I don't make assumptions based on other people's actions.
If it's buggy, proof it, and when you attempt to proof it, make sure that your test/proof excludes other possibilities.

As for the comment about Genesi/thendic/bplan having bad ingeneers, they're better then me, but still only human.

Cheers
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 31 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 15-Feb-2004 12:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
> The board is a pre-release

I translate "pre-production" (as well as this announcement itself) to a *finalized design*, but built in a small series to test things before a big production run starts, somewhat like a final rehearsal. Otherwise, what would be the point for developers to order this one "ahead of the official volume release" in order to get their software running on it, if fundamental things will change later on anyway?

> so there's no guarantee that the USB 1 ports will stay, they might be USB 2
> in the final release version.

Wouldn't that require some *serious* design changes of the board, and how likely is that at this stage?

I must say that I am quite disappointed about these specs. Wasn't it announced that there would be all kinds of interesting features on this board, like Gigabit ethernet, Firewire, USB2, UDMA133 RAID IDE, etc? That made the board look interesting, even to me (provided that they got a somewhat high performance northbridge that worked properly, and speaking of that, the southbridge is announced, but it says nothing about the northbridge? Is it still the ArticiaS like in the prototype that has been on display on various occasions?). But now it has nothing such!

Also, what are the big differences between USB1.1 and USB1.0? Is it that USB1.1 supports 12Mbits/s while USB1.0 only supports 1.5Mbits?

> There is also going to be an expansion card where the "personal computer"
> peripherals like firewire are going to be, and finally there is a PCI slot,

So there will be an optional card where these things will be? I'm not sure I like that. The ordinary PCI bus is somewhat of a bottleneck for Gigabit Ethernet alone, and putting that plus USB2, plus Firewire, plus UDMA133 Raid (and other high speed data solutions?) *on the very same PCI card* ... it's probably *doable*, but I'm not so sure I think that's very sexy. But that is probably only because I am kind of clueless about HW ...

BTW, what would such a card cost to an end-user? And *how* does one squeeze in all those chips and controllers on a single PCI card? Onboard PCI bridges or some kind of custom glue logic? Are there single chip solutions that contains all these features that could be used, like some kind of an "advanced extra southbridge on PCI"?

> Alan has said several times you can plug a PCI riser with up to three slots
> in it.

Take a look at the picture of the "feb 2004 revision" of the A1 lite:
http://www.eyetech.co.uk/PRODPIX/MA1PREP1.JPG?PHPSESSID=f1b6c71bdc49ae2c00b9cf305e430b18

Now look at this picture of a Pegasos:
http://www.pegasosppc.com/images.php?f=image&id=818
Look especially careful around the PCI slot closest to the AGP slot. See any differences? The Pegasos has this extra 2x11 riser card slot (on this picture you will see it to the left of the PCI slot) that is required to use a riser card with 2 extra PCI slots. The A1 Lite seems to be missing this ...?

(Read about the ATX Riser Card Specification here:
http://www.formfactors.org/developer%5Cspecs%5CATX_Spec_V1_0.pdf )

> It's smaller, but it's far from useless.

The mini-itx form factor is kind of cool because of it's size, but motherboards of this kind is also usually kind of locked when it comes to features, with very limited options for customization, alteration and upgrades. So when it's forever locked to these somewhat low spec features, it has to be *really low priced* to be sellable IMHO.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 32 of 204ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 29 (raged):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Trolling
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 33 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Feb-2004 13:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (takemehomegrandma):
Gramma, if i'm not mistaken, the extra I/O board with firewire etc wasn't specified as being a PCI card.

I've not seen the board in detail, but for me, the only thing missing is the USB2, if they can throw that on that extra card, and keep the PCI slot free, then i'll probably buy one (the PCI slot is for my TV tuner card)

Cheers
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 34 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Feb-2004 13:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous):
It's hard to believe anyone without conclusive evidence, that's why i'm waiting to see what happens.

Cheers
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 35 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 15-Feb-2004 13:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (raged):
Conclussion: April patches broken ide driver in Linux.

You're soooo right.

Amon_Re:

Gerald fixed for Mai first Articia, they fucked Genesi up and now Genesi doesn't want to help them and now they (Genesi) don't care, they've switched to better northbridge. Plain and simple. Look at tests. You can look at it like 'bug in linux driver', but that doesn't change the fact, that there is no reliable DMA enbled OS on A1. We will see if workarounds will work. So far Linux fails on heavy duty tests.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 36 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Feb-2004 13:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (brotheris):
I don't know Gerald, but i'm sure he's a fairly knowledgeable person, however, without solid proof i'm not going to take his word for it.

Do you know what the April does? I don't, and sofar no-one has been willing to explain it properly.

Do i believe Genesi? No, i don't, i don't believe a single word that comes out of it's management (BBRV)

Do i think the people at Hyperion are lying? No, i don't think so, does that mean that what they say is true? They definatly believe it to be true.

Sooner or later DMA will be in AOS, then, and only then, will we know for sure.
(unless someone manages to fix the linux issue's first :P)

Cheers
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 37 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 15-Feb-2004 13:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Amon_Re):
Do you know what the April does? I don't, and sofar no-one has been willing to explain it properly.

Which part of 'Genesi doesn't want to help MAI' you don't get ? Gerald is competent hardware designer, he proved it many times. you can doubt him, but you can't doubt md5sum tests.

Do i believe Genesi? No, i don't, i don't believe a single word that comes out of it's management

Do you remember who first was shouting 'bplan uses buggy northbridge' ? I don't think you do. Remember times when bplan were keeping northbridge in secret with heatsink? Do the names Ben Hermans and Alan Redhouse ring a bell ? Do you remember 'big' Amiga fair in UK where cards about bugs were given out ? Gerald worked with MAI to fix the bugs, he even was at their labs to pointfinger the bug. Why did MAI hide their 'feature' with NDAs ? Why VIA misconfiguration became Articia feature ? To many lies.
You as a probable A1 user (which I highly doubt myself) should care about possible HW bugs, because Articia is your ONLY choice. Genesi doesn't care.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 38 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 15-Feb-2004 13:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Amon_Re):
"They" (Ben H) also believed the A1 could get 1,5 gigabytes/second out
of a 64 bit bus at 133MHz. And since he posted this figure as a result
from their (Hyperions) testing, it's hard to draw any other conclusion
that they (Hyperion), as a collective, actually believed this figure.

Now, if someone can release a driver for Linux which removes all DMA
problems, then fine - then I'll believe that the software is at fault.
Just claiming that this must be true because Hyperion says so - well,
do you then also believe that 133*8 equals 1536? If not - on what
grounds do you choose to believe in Hyperion or not?
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 39 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 15-Feb-2004 13:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Amon_Re):
"If it's buggy, proof it, and when you attempt to proof it, make sure that your test/proof excludes other possibilities." Linux missing bulletproof DMA reliability on A1 board is strong evidence in my eyes. By the way, some people are claiming DMA issues on Pegasos could be due to faulty motherboard design. But then, it is perfectly possible that DMA problems in AmigaOne/Linux are due to faulty motherboard desing too, right? (Not in NB itself.) Think about it.
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 40 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 15-Feb-2004 13:41 GMT
About the picture - aside from that it is an extremely crappy picture,
it also seems that they cut off the top of the picture. This is
interesting since on previous versions, the CPU card extended outside
of the motherboard. You can't see on this picture if this is still the
case. The upshot of this is of course, does this board fit in a normal
mini-ITX case? Or do you have to get a specially chosen case from
Eyetech?
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 41 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Feb-2004 13:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (brotheris):
Look, whatever you say won't make me change my mind, unless you can proof me with solid evidence that you are right, and i'm wrong.

Hell, i'll even admit my errors if you can prove them.

Cheers
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 42 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 15-Feb-2004 13:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Amon_Re):
I don't care if you won't change your mind. Look it up about past issues on ANN, it holds archive. People forget fast what happened and believe in new storries real quick. Besides, for MorphOS people it is all irrelevant, you should care and you should look it up. I'm not going to beat around the bush anymore (atleast today ;-)
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 43 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 15-Feb-2004 13:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (raged):
So, I was thinking about buying an A1 motherboard, but I am not really sure that it will work completely as announced. There are a lot of rumours floating around, but you seems to be a guy that know what you are talking about (I'm not particular good at hardware issues myself, I make up my mind based on what people I respect say), so do you mind me asking some questions?

Does *ALL* A1's out there (every single one of them) work *100% stable*, *100% perfect* at 133mhz FSB speed in *all thinkable situations*? Or are there users out there who has downclocked it because they think it makes the system more stable? I know that the Articia has AGP2x on paper, but does it really reach those transfer speeds in real life? And this PCI DMA situation (*any* device on the PCI bus (including IDE but not IDE exclusive)), is it really 100% working 100% without software patches, PCI -> AGP DMA (can you transfer data directly from a PCI TV-card to an AGP graphics card for instance, without storing loading it to RAM first, and sending it to AGP from there?), AGP -> PCI DMA? CPU <-> Memory transfer? Everything *totally 100%* stable in all thinkable situations, for *everyone* and not only "most" (random) users, even with heavy load and huge files going backwards and forwards, criss cross the whole system? If I for a weeks time will transfer some huge files from a lot of devices, to/from ethernet, IDE, PCI devices, etc, will all files be 100% intact I check them a week later?

Could you take an oath on that? And if I don't agree that future SW patches and workaround is good enough, would you personally guarantee that I would get a complete refund (from *yourself* if Eyetech/Hyperion should choose to believe that certain things are *features* instead of bugs)? If you do that, I might consider buying one ...
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 44 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Feb-2004 13:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Johan Rönnblom):
"They" (Ben H) also believed the A1 could get 1,5 gigabytes/second out
of a 64 bit bus at 133MHz. And since he posted this figure as a result
from their (Hyperions) testing, it's hard to draw any other conclusion
that they (Hyperion), as a collective, actually believed this figure.


I remember this discussion vaguely, and if my memory is not mistaken me, Ben did admit he was wrong there, but Ben Hermans != Hyperion.

Now, if someone can release a driver for Linux which removes all DMA
problems, then fine - then I'll believe that the software is at fault.


In basis we want the same thing, undisputable proof :)
For some this might be impossible, after all, there were VIA drivers for Linux x86 etc, but there's more to a computer then just the CPU & some drivers, wich alot of the naysayers seem to be forgetting

Just claiming that this must be true because Hyperion says so - well,
do you then also believe that 133*8 equals 1536? If not - on what
grounds do you choose to believe in Hyperion or not?


I believe them on the ground of discussions i've had with them, and on my own understanding from computers and how they operate internally. I have not had any technical discussion with any of the naysayers that allow me to come to the conclusion that it can 'only be' the hardware that's at fault, every single argument i heard sofar is inconclusive.

Cheers
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 45 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 15-Feb-2004 13:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Amon_Re):
> Gramma, if i'm not mistaken, the extra I/O board with firewire etc wasn't
> specified as being a PCI card.

So what will it be then? The AGP is already occupied. What more buses does the Articia have?
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 46 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Feb-2004 13:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (itix):
"If it's buggy, proof it, and when you attempt to proof it, make sure that your test/proof excludes other possibilities."

Linux missing bulletproof DMA reliability on A1 board is strong evidence in my eyes.


This proves something isn't functioning properly, but it does NOT prove what is behaving wrongly.
Don't mistake yourself, i'm not saying that there are no issue's with linux & DMA, i'm saying that it's not been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that it is the hardware

By the way, some people are claiming DMA issues on Pegasos could be due to faulty motherboard design. But then, it is perfectly possible that DMA problems in AmigaOne/Linux are due to faulty motherboard desing too, right? (Not in NB itself.)

Think about it.


I have, and i doubt this to be the case, both boards might have design issue's, i don't know, but if there are design issue's, i'm pretty confident that these would be minor, after all, how many revisions were there of the A1200 mobo? Designers are human, they can make mistakes

Cheers
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 47 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Feb-2004 13:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (takemehomegrandma):
"Or are there users out there who has downclocked it because they think it makes the system more stable?"

Clocking it up makes it more stable, you do know that right?

Anyway, why do you care?
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 48 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Feb-2004 13:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (brotheris):
I've said the following in the past afew times already "Unless you can prove the issue's, don't bring them up"

I say we give then the benefect of doubt, and wait till they come out with DMA drivers for AOS.

Fair enough?

Cheers
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 49 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Feb-2004 14:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (takemehomegrandma):
I wouldn't be willing to put an oath to that no matter what the board in question was.

The following is what we know:
1: LinuxPPC has issue's with DMA on early Pegasos machines & the A1
2: Pegasos has a hw fix called April (workings of this chip have not been explained) and are set on 100Mhz FSB
3: AONE has no such chip, and is still clocked at 133Mhz FSB, several issue's have been solved through fixing chip timings (through the firmware) and patches to the kernel, minor issue's still exist, and are, according to RossV being slowly fixed.
4: Hyperion say that AOS4 will have no issue's

About that oath, no hardware i've seen in the past 10 years was 100% bugfree

Cheers
Eyetech Site Updated : Comment 50 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Feb-2004 14:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (takemehomegrandma):
Hey, don't ask me, i just comment here ;)

Cheers
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