24-Jun-2024 23:00 GMT.
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 34 items in your selection
[News] New, improved G4 processor from MotorolaANN.lu
Posted on 24-Feb-2004 10:18 GMT by takemehomegrandma34 comments
View flat
View list
A new improved version of the MPC7447 G4 processors sees the day of light, the MPC7447A, with some interesting features. The Register reports:

Motorola's chip division - soon to be spun off as Freescale Semiconductor - today updated its G4-class PowerPC processor, the MPC7447, taking the part to 1.5GHz and paving the way for one more PowerBook G4 update the line before its upgraded to IBM's 90nm G5 chip, the 970FX.

The new Motorola part is dubbed the 7447A and adds on-the-fly clock frequency adjustment, allowing system makers to run at reduced frequencies according to workload. The upshot is longer battery life. And there's now a temperature-sensing diode included to monitor die temperature, Motorola says.

At 1.42GHz, the chip consumes 20W of power, Motorola claims, which compares well to the 7447's 21.3W at 1.33GHz. The company also mentions a lower power version of the 7447A that consumes less than 9.3W at 1.167GHz, which seems no better than the old 7447's claimed 7.5W at 1GHz. The low-power 7447A has a core voltage of 1.1V; the regular 7447A runs at 1.3V.

Essentially, the 7447A is a revised 7447, itself a low-power version of the 7457. The 130nm 7447 is currently used by Apple in its PowerBook G4. The iBook is based on the older 7455. The 7447 is a trimmed down version of the 7457, losing the latter's support for external L3 cache. The 7457 and both versions of the 7447 contain 512KB of on-die L2 cache. All three are fabbed using silicon on insulator technology.

According to Motorola, the 1.42GHz 7447A is shipping in sample quantities to "selected customers" for $245 a go, in batches of 10,000 CPUs. Volume production was not confirmed, but is likely to be reached during Q2 or Q3, we'd say.

Read the rest of the article at: http://www.theregister.com/content/39/35749.html
Visit the Motorola product information page: http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7447A

New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 1 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Miky060 on 24-Feb-2004 09:25 GMT
It would be nice to see the 7447A low consumption version on the PegasosII...
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 2 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 24-Feb-2004 09:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Miky060):
Indeed, with variable speed and temp measurement and all! :-)

BTW, Genesi seems to have has built CPU cards with these for evaluation:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1072474703&category=forum&number=29#comment

... so one should never say never! :-)
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 3 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 24-Feb-2004 10:41 GMT
"samples" in "batches of 10,000"? How many machines of each model does Apple sell, anyway? It's got to be an enormous lot if Motorola are "sampling" "select customers" in "batches of 10,000".

I guess consumer and professional markets really ARE very different... (I'm in broadcast, things are a bit different there :-) )
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 4 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Feb-2004 11:05 GMT
Genesi if you use it for the Pegasos II, please, choose Low-power against speed !!!

I would not buy a computer with a huge noisy fan!
That's why I choosed the G3 version (and a little because it's less expansive too :-) ).

By the way, Will Genesi sell CPU upgrade for Peg II ? (G3 750FX ? MPC7447A ?)

Bye
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 5 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 24-Feb-2004 13:08 GMT
Sigh it will be dificult to see those processors on Peg2 ... Motorola produced them only for big requesters, it's not like Ibm :/
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 6 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 24-Feb-2004 14:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
Not official information, so don't treat it as such:

The equivalent 7447A processor to the one in the Pegasos (1GHz 7447) should or
would or could run low enough to be passively cooled.

Regardless, I'm sure some research is going to be done on quieter or more
effective CPU cooling solutions. There has been so much discussion online
about the (actually rather low and unnoticable) noise from the G4 models.

What I think is the case is that many people are used to the silence of an
Amiga. For people who have 4 PC's and a laptop around them (hello!) or even
just general use of a Pentium machine will know that the noise of a Pegasos
is really minor :D

People have been replacing them with huge Zallman heatsinks to get around it.
I'm sure we don't have to go as far as that. By the way I'll remind you that
if you mess with the heatsink on the current G4 card, you will void your
warranty!

As for CPU upgrades, who knows? It should also be possible, but the market for
upgrades is a complete unknown. How many should we produce? What shall we
price them at? It needs a little research and more than a little wishful
thinking for the demand. For all we know everyone else could be perfectly
happy with their current models. Safe bet would be to institute a pre-order
scheme but we know that's not desirable in this market :D

Eva: You don't need to be as big as Apple. Being listed in the Design Alliance
(or IBM solutions directory, for the G3) is pretty much enough to be on their
radars for buying them. Yep, it really is a useful foot in the door, and not
just a quick web-form submission.

You just need to have a genuine use for them in large enough quantities -
buying 10 at a time will NOT impress them, for example. That value "large
enough" is really up to Motorola, and could just as well be 100, if you could
afford the reduced economy prices.

The "10,000" figure is a pricing guideline, the line between who is small-fry
and who can have them is entirely on a case-by-case basis. Stop being so
negative! :)

=Neko=
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 7 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Feb-2004 18:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
>I would not buy a computer with a huge noisy fan!

What about a small noisy fan? Just kidding. The G4 can be cooled without too much noise, even virtually noiseless, it's not a 100W CPU.
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 8 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 24-Feb-2004 22:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Neko):
Hoping :(
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 9 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 24-Feb-2004 22:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Eva):
I feel confident! :-)
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 10 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 24-Feb-2004 23:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (takemehomegrandma):
http://www.genesi.lu/press_20040225.php

Feel even more confident now, don't you? :)

=Neko=
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 11 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 24-Feb-2004 23:55 GMT
nice neko :D
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 12 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 25-Feb-2004 00:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Neko):
8D°°°
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 13 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 25-Feb-2004 01:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Neko):
>There has been so much discussion online about the (actually rather low and>unnoticable) noise from the G4 models. Sorry to say this, but you must have beans in your ears - or a very good noiseinsulating case. It was quite a shock for me to go from a silent G3 system (nocase fan, no gfxcardfan, no cpu fan, 5V-modified PSU fan) to the G4 that producesmore noise than my PC with Radeon 9800SE AIW...>As for CPU upgrades, who knows? It should also be possible, but the market for>upgrades is a complete unknown. How many should we produce? What shall we>price them at?What do you mean? You will be producing the faster G4 to go with Pegasos II in afew months, I expect Genesi to have a few spare CPU cards for testing/exchange ofbroken ones, so when someone is interested to upgrade (from G3 or G4) to lets saya silent 1.2 or 1.3Ghz CPU, you won't be able to give a price quote? So what isGenesi's http://www.pegasosppc.com/cpu_card.php site talking about?"The PEGASOS makes upgrading easier by using so-called CPU cards. This way, yourprocessor speed can be increased by simply switching a small card containing yourprocessor of choice." [http://www.pegasosppc.com/processor.php] :-P >That value "large enough" is really up to Motorola, and could just as well be>100, if you could afford the reduced economy prices. Right, the "prefered ordering quantities" are often as low as ~150 units as youread when clicking on the orderable parts links.
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 14 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 25-Feb-2004 05:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Neko):
"the silence of an Amiga"????????

Whatcha mean? My A1200-040 didn't get silent until I replace harddrive and modded the CPU cooler. My stock A4000 is the noisiest computer I have ever heard. :-P
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 15 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 25-Feb-2004 08:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Neko):
great! I hope you use passive cooling and a big heatsink in the next models :-)
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 16 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by ujb on 25-Feb-2004 08:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (tarbos):
> Right, the "prefered ordering quantities" are often as low as ~150 units as you
> read when clicking on the orderable parts links.

At arrow they sell really low quantities for reasonalbe prices. So no problem...

Well for upgrade path - what about the idea that Genesi does not sell board including cpu card, but plain boards and cpu cards. So everyone who buys a new Peg has to order 2 parts, but someone already owning a Peg can buy also an additional cpu card.

btw. I would be intested in a cpu upgrade, but only for a fanless solution (Well I guess I have to buy an entire new Peg then, since I own a Peg1). Actally the price difference between the current used 7447 NB and the LB (which would be passively coolable) is about 34 US$ (178.08 <-> 211.97).
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 17 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 25-Feb-2004 08:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (ujb):
Uhm, I use Arrow a lot. No, they don't sell low quantities unless the manufacturer does so.

Manufacturers minimum orderable quantity == Arrows minimum orderable quantity.

It wasn't always like this, but Arrow (at least the local branch here) no longer acts like a reseller, they act like a consultant...
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 18 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 25-Feb-2004 09:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Ole-Egil):
Same here.. Arrow don't sell partials.. if manufacturers reel/minimum is 2000 then 2000 is it..
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 19 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by ujb on 25-Feb-2004 09:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (JoannaK):
Okay, my misinterpretation, myself only used to digikey right now (and not in the business of desktop cpu´s...)
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 20 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 25-Feb-2004 09:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (ujb):
Yep. DigiKey, Farnell and Elfa are the ones I start looking when we need small number of parts for protos etc..
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 21 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 25-Feb-2004 10:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (JoannaK):
Well, Arrow DOES have a pretty good sample system if the item is popular, which we use for protos. But for our production runs (which aren't in 100k series, not even in 1k series due to this not being consumer electronics) we use Kitron, which is a Norwegian electronics manufacturer which handles all our needs. They then stock the item and anything on stock at their plant can be used by any of their customers. We send them the docs, they send off parts of it to a PCB manufacturer and solder up everything. We then get a nearly finished product back and just do final assembly/testing in-house.

I'm actually pretty happy about using a local company for construction, shipping off to China is a much tougher process to get right :-)
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 22 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by A.Scott Pringle on 25-Feb-2004 12:50 GMT
Did anyone else notice that the ONLY Supported Operating System listed
on this Motorola page is MorphOS, also the only third party products
listed are ODW and Pegasos?

Nice works guys, keep it up!

iPeg because iCan
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 23 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 25-Feb-2004 12:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (A.Scott Pringle):
:-O

No, I didn't notice that at first! Cool (as long as it lasts)! :-)
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 24 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 25-Feb-2004 13:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (tarbos):
> Sorry to say this, but you must have beans in your ears - or a very good
> noise insulating case. It was quite a shock for me to go from a silent G3
> system (no case fan, no gfxcardfan, no cpu fan, 5V-modified PSU fan) to the
> G4 that produces more noise than my PC with Radeon 9800SE AIW...

Well I may be going deaf from the other systems in the room. I tend to work
with my music turned up to "11", too. But even so, the noise is definitely
not intolerable.

> What do you mean? You will be producing the faster G4 to go with Pegasos II
> in a few months, I expect Genesi to have a few spare CPU cards for
> testing/exchange of broken ones, so when someone is interested to upgrade
> (from G3 or G4) to lets say a silent 1.2 or 1.3Ghz CPU, you won't be able to
> give a price quote?

I don't know, if you consider that out of 1000 users only 1% may want to
upgrade, that's 10 cards to produce.

Let's throw some stupid figures around: 10 cards could be done on the back of
another production run. But.. what if we decided that out of 1000 users
(wishful thinking!), that 10% may want to upgrade?

1) how do we justify making 100 G4 cards on their own, based on an assumption?
2) what about G3 cards, too, if we happen to like the IBM 750GX?
3) what happens if we make too few!?
4) do you offer trade-ins or exchanges, and if so, what do you do with the
old cards? Who'd want a noisy old G4 if we were selling new quiet ones?

All things considered, it's a more involved decision than "let's produce lots
and hope people snap them up!" - we've been blessed and cursed with unexpected
demand, and providing exchanges is a daunting prospect.. but let's not get
complacent and assume that it will last :D

Ole-Egil, I was thinking more of an A500 or A1200, the noise of which is a
mere slight clacking of the floppy drive, which may be cured by simple
insertion of a disk.

We buy direct from Motorola and IBM as far as I know, and the last purchase of
G4 chips was a batch of some 1000 or more. We certainly do fulfil all
requirements of wanting them in quantities.

ujb, the 7447A should be a tad cheaper since it's produced on a more efficient
manufacturing process (more dies per wafer).

Otherwise, selling boards as Board + CPU is more efficient and useful to
customers than selling them seperately. There's no good reason (in terms of
market) to sell motherboards alone, and selling CPU cards alone needs to be
evaluated given the desire for exchanges or trades. Seriously, can you think
of any good use we could put the actively cooled G4 chips to? I'd love to
know if you can solve that :D

=Neko=
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 25 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 25-Feb-2004 14:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Neko):
It depends on price. If the passively cooled boxes come out cheaper than the actively cooled ones, you're up shit creek without a paddle. If not, you're going to get rid of them eventually anyway.

How much active cooling are we talking about anyway? A BIT of air cools extremely much better than none, so just getting SOME circulation going could be enough, I don't know.

I just found a 70mm cooler that does 22CFM and 24dBA at 2750RPM/12V. Does in fact sound like a master plan. But maybe you can't fit a 70mm cooler on your CPU boards?
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 26 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 25-Feb-2004 14:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Ole-Egil):
I have a 060 which (when it worked) made no noise at all!
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 27 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 25-Feb-2004 14:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Neko):
>Well I may be going deaf from the other systems in the room. I tend to work
>with my music turned up to "11", too. But even so, the noise is definitely
>not intolerable.

Ok, let's say the Peg2 standing flat on my non-massive table adds to the
problem of vibration induced noise aside from the sound of air flow.

>I don't know, if you consider that out of 1000 users only 1% may want to
>upgrade, that's 10 cards to produce.

Nevertheless you produced G4 upgrades for about 20 (Peg1) customers iirc.
If there are no upgrades planned you should remove this passage from the
website as fast as possible (although I think it was one important reason
why to go for a CPU slot).
Let me ask you something, a customers writes "dear genesi, my cat has eaten
the G4 card, can I buy a new one from you?", what do you reply?
No, sorry, you have to buy a whole new MB & CPU bundle?

>1) how do we justify making 100 G4 cards on their own, based on an assumption?

There can be preorders that can be fulfilled with the next production run if
you are in doubt about the numbers.

>2) what about G3 cards, too, if we happen to like the IBM 750GX?

What about them? If Genesi designed the CPU card for 750FX you would have a
nice possibility to use the pin and voltage compatible GX by now.
Sometimes I feel like "the lonely shouter in the desert".

>3) what happens if we make too few!?

What happens if you make too few Pegasoi? People have to wait as is the case
right now.

>4) do you offer trade-ins or exchanges, and if so, what do you do with the
>old cards? Who'd want a noisy old G4 if we were selling new quiet ones?

Deaf people? ;-)
No, why DID you sell those noisy (hey, before you said they are not) 2nd rate
G4 cards in the first place when you had potentially perfectly silent ones half
a year ago already??

Also bplan made an error in configuring the CPU cards the way they are not
interchangable between Pegasos I and Pegasos II (fixed clock multipliers?)
which further limits their reusability. This is an unneccessary error just
like soldering the CPU fan directly to the card when you have a perfecly
good 3 pin CPU fan connector on the motherboard itself.

>the 7447A should be a tad cheaper since it's produced on a more efficient
>manufacturing process (more dies per wafer).

Can you tell about the differences?
In my book both are manufactured at "0.13µ 9LM CMOS with SOI".
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 28 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 25-Feb-2004 14:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Neko):
Let me add something...
As nice as this announcement sounds, I am not sure if it benefits Genesi right
now (and they said they need the money now, not later...) since people will
of course wait for the new G4 systems instead of buying the "noisy" and slower
G4 version. Can you really hope to get rid of the remaining ~800 units now? :-P
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 29 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by ujb on 25-Feb-2004 15:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (tarbos):
> Sometimes I feel like "the lonely shouter in the desert".

Solidarity: I shout with you...
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 30 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 25-Feb-2004 17:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Neko):
>Seriously, can you think of any good use we could put the actively cooled G4
>chips to? I'd love to know if you can solve that :D

How about this...there still is the problem with certain unsatisfied Phase5 preorder-money CyberstormPPC G4 customers or people who had to wait for 2 years
to get their PPC board back from DCE - either repaired or unrepaired.
Now, if Genesi feels like it and has some money to spend, you could do the
following steps:

*Offer the upgrade from current to new G4 for a reasonable price (100EUR?)
*test if the returned cards run fine
*collect the names and proof of people who have prepayed in good faith to
Phase5 because they wanted to have a G4 system and people who have lost their
cards to DCE (or waited more than 6 months for it to be fixed).
*offer them Pegasos II with the refurbished G4 card for the price of a Pegasos
II G3 system.

This way the naughty things of the past can be dissolved by the white knight
Genesi on their flying horse Pegasos, the existing complaining customers get
their G4 upgrades and you find a good use for the old cards while winning new
customers.
What say you? :-)
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 31 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 25-Feb-2004 19:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Neko):
>There's no good reason (in terms of market) to sell motherboards alone, and
>selling CPU cards alone

Why not give an option to purchase separate CPU and motherboards i.e. give the customer's wants within limited budget framework?
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 32 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 25-Feb-2004 21:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (ujb):
Now that I've read his posting, I shout as well...

Why on earth is there a CPU slot if customers are not able to get an upgraded CPU?

Surely it doesn't save space and it doesn't save money???
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 33 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by StAn on 25-Feb-2004 22:00 GMT
Just to say that I want silence too. And less heat (couldn't use my Amiga for long last summer!), less pollution.
So please go for the low consumption version!
New, improved G4 processor from Motorola : Comment 34 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Jerry Gibbons on 03-Mar-2004 23:42 GMT
Apple will probably put G5's not G4's into PowerBooks before too long.
IBM has the power consumption down to 12.3 watts!
On the same site...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/35057.html states...
"The 970FX, meanwhile, consumes a mere 12.3W at 1.4GHz, paving the way for
PowerBook G5s. That figure is comparable to the 7.5W a 1GHz consumption of
the G4-class Motorola MPC7447 that drives the current PowerBook G4s."
Anonymous, there are 34 items in your selection
Back to Top