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[Web] How many unpaid Genesi employees?ANN.lu
Posted on 27-Feb-2004 08:29 GMT by Christian Kemp214 comments
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In a thread titled "How many unpaid Genesi employees?" on Moo Bunny, Johan Rönnblom posted his story.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 1 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Mr. Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 07:46 GMT
When do the lawsuits start getting filed for all the back pay owed to these past employees?
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 2 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 07:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Mr. Anonymous):
It's stange but many persons and compagnies that worked for thendic/genesi in the last years haven't been paid. Unfortunately it seems none have engaged lawsuits because a single person or a compagny with no money can't fight against genesi well payed lawyers.

Maybe these persons will talk when genesi will not have enough money to pay some lawyers??? (sarcasm).
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 3 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 07:54 GMT
iT'S aLL aMIGA iNC's fAULT!!!
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 4 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 08:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
;)
Hehe
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 5 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Mr. Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 08:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
So, Genesi does have it's priorities straight. Pay the important employees, the laywers.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 6 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 08:30 GMT
That post is very similar to one posted about Amiga Inc and unpaid wages etc...

It made me cringe when I read the part about hiring people and telling them to make up their own job roles etc...and over enthusiasm leading to bad decisions.. reminds me of a family run business I once worked for......

Some optimism though by the poster about MOS and the Pegasos which is nice to see... I wish BBRV luck and hope they have learnt along the way ;)
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 7 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald St-Maurice on 27-Feb-2004 08:41 GMT
One is on the run and hiding from the law. The other ain't paying the employes properly.

Are all Amiga related companies all this screwed up? :S
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 8 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 27-Feb-2004 08:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
I do think the individuals can get a Pro-Deo lawyer here in the Benelux, correct me if i'm wrong

Cheers
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 9 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 27-Feb-2004 08:56 GMT
the new Amiga Inc!

Cheers
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 10 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by -D- on 27-Feb-2004 09:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
Pretty much my sentiments on the issue as well. Unpaid employees is
definately "not good", but hopefully they'll iron out the wrinkles
and move on.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 11 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 09:23 GMT
Some people should get the facts right:

Most of the unpaid people were contracted by Thendic/France and NOT Genesi. Thendic/France got owned by Pretory who then got bancrupt. So what claims do these people have on Genesi now ?

It would be like working for Mc Donalds but claim money from Burger King.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 12 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 27-Feb-2004 09:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Ronald St-Maurice):
"Are all Amiga related companies all this screwed up?"

Short answer: By the looks of it, yes.
Long answer: No, I can mention at least one company that isn't FUBAR, GGS-Data in Sweden.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 13 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 09:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
Indeed. Some people's sole purpose of this is to stir up shit and start a witch hunt by originating threads and posting in threads about stuff that should be handled in private.

But well, what to expect when even whining about money issues are placed at places that were originally meant for advertising purposes.

So long.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 14 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 09:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
What you say can be resumed as this:

- thendic hired people, done contracts with compagnies
- closed the compagny without paying many people
- and now uses the work of these people in genesi, without having to pay no one.

And if this are facts, that means the justice have to take more than a look and genesi's practices since this attitude is condamnable in almost all contries.
Again to start some investigations people have to fill a lawsuit case, and so must have enough money to fight against genesi.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 15 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 27-Feb-2004 09:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
unless the man from mcdonalds who hired you said you were working for burger king, and you were involved in burger kings products.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 16 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 27-Feb-2004 09:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
> So what claims do these people have on Genesi now ?


Well, the company is run by the same people and is using the same work.

If Ronald McDonald bought Burger King, hired you to design a new king burger for BK, closed BK down, then used your new king burger for McDonalds, all without paying you.........

.....maybe you'd have a point. ;-)


Personally I hope it all gets sorted out. Same goes for Amiga inc.


Robert.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 17 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 27-Feb-2004 10:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
According to what Christian said, he was employed by Genesi, same for Johan, instead of bitching, learn how to read.

Cheers
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 18 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 10:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Robert):
> If Ronald McDonald bought Burger King, hired you to design a new king burger for
> BK, closed BK down, then used your new king burger for McDonalds, all without
> paying you.........

Maybe they pay back with lifetime Hamburgers and Cheeseburgers optionally Chicken McNuggets :)
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 19 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 27-Feb-2004 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Anonymous):
...and give away free deep fat fryers to developers?
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 20 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 27-Feb-2004 10:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (T_Bone):
Well, besides being an AmigaOne-user with currently little active interest in
MOS/Pegasos, I can be a good sport about this and hope that Genesi et al will pull
through and have learned some valuable lessons along the way. They have some
really nice products that many end-users apparently are most satisfied with. Good
for them!
Hopefully all will work out.
.
SlimJim
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 21 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 27-Feb-2004 10:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Anonymous):
> Maybe they pay back with lifetime Hamburgers and Cheeseburgers optionally
> Chicken McNuggets :)

I would settle with that! Mmmm ...! :-)
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 22 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 27-Feb-2004 10:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (takemehomegrandma):
You actually like that stuff??

Urgh.. :)

Cheers
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 23 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 10:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Amon_Re):
> You actually like that stuff ??

You may laugh but McDonalds has very high Quality Assurance when it comes to food stuff. You can be sure that the food you receive from them is fresh and went through thousands of quality tests. It's only questionable whether the vitamins and trace elements are still there but otherwise the food is more reliable than what's offered at an ordinary snack bar (where they can betray you, offer you expired stuff etc.).
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 24 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 27-Feb-2004 10:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Anonymous):
I'm not questioning the quality mate, i'm questioning the taste ;)

Cheers
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 25 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 10:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
Following your logic: Then the contract between AmigaInc and Genesi is not valid too, since it was made between thendic and AmigaInc and is NOT transferable.
Guess not, Thendic France hired them and it's the very same Thendic France which merged with bplan to Genesi.

Typical USA business man strategy: As long as you pay your lawyers well, you can face anyone in court and avoid people who can't afford to take you to court.

Can't they all team up and start a joined case against Genesi?
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 26 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 27-Feb-2004 10:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous):
People should read this thread:
http://www.flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbthread.pl/amiga/expand/97982?page=6

AdmV
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 27 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 27-Feb-2004 10:44 GMT
I have no reason to believe Genesi would be trying to use unpaid IP
from Thendic. And I think I know a whole lot more than these anonymous
troublemakers. Please go away, you're not helping anyone.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 28 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 27-Feb-2004 10:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (takemehomegrandma):
LOL

@ Amon_Re
Noboody should likes Mc Donald :-)
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 29 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 11:01 GMT
Where do people eat better ?

a) Mc Donalds
b) Wendy's
c) Burger King
d) Pizza Hut
e) Home at Mom
f) China
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 30 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Feb-2004 11:07 GMT
Right. Lets just pretend nothing happened.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 31 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 11:09 GMT
I never trusted Bill Buck. And I well never do in the future.
To me it seems that the only ones getting paid are THe MorphOS core developers and the bplan hardware engineers.

These guys form some kind of happy family and the rest should shut up.

Take this Neko guy for example, I just read the thread on Moobunny and OMG what a plain @sshole.
Chistian wasn't supposed to tell this in public. He had to keep his "problems" to himself instead of letting the world now what kind of "business man" Billy boy Buck(et) really is. Genesi was some people's saviour, I really hope they open their eyes.

Neko (core developer of MorphOS) on Moobunny: "Are you arrogant enough to think that your noise makes things BETTER for everyone concerned? This discussion is just an ego-inflating exercise, no better for it's good grammar and reasonable wording than interesting idiots that seekthetruth".

The sooner Genesi goes bust the better. I'll drink on that when the day comes.
Even if they could aquire the Amiga brand, i'll never buy a product from that lame excuse for a "compagny".
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 32 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 27-Feb-2004 11:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
e & f

Cheers
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 33 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 11:18 GMT
A number of employment offers have been made to well known Amiga community faces, some genuine, some clearly to shut them up. Christian is helping burst the Genesi myth, and by bringing the community back to reality hopefully a few positive effects will be visible:

1. People will stop posting crap about how Genesi will do this amazing thing or that amazing thing. Instead, realise they are on a shoestring budget like Hyperion and to a lesser extent Eyetech.

2. People will realise maybe that a G5 Pegasos is a bit of a pipedream, Genesi have not recouped the costs of Peg1 and Peg2 yet and sales are far smaller than they had hoped of Peg2s.

3. People will realise that Bill Buck's comments about being able to cease and desist AOS4 are just hot air.

The fact that Bill Buck's company priorities are to persue pointless litigation over a useless product over and above the welfare of its own employees speaks volumes.

Prospective and current employees take note, this company is a paper tiger.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 34 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 11:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Johan Rönnblom):
I don't believe that you're this kind of @ss licking person.
Wake up!!
This case will not be solved for the simple reason that you made "herr obersturmbahn fuhrer" look bad. That you made Genesi look bad. They we're supposed to be the saviours of our beloved Amiga, the ones that we're suporting the community. The ones with a vision to create an alternative platform. A healthy compagny with a lot of cash to make things happen instead of "that other compagny".

The only change you have for this issue to be "solved" is for pure PR by Billy boy.
Look Amiga community, we solved the case, (psst Johann, let's use you....erm please write a press release on every forum that everything was a misunderstanding), in order to fire you a month later for being not loyal to the butterfly sect.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 35 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 11:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
> Even if they could aquire the Amiga brand, i'll never buy a product from that
> lame excuse for a "compagny".

I think they will sleep fine even if YOU don't buy their product. Others will for sure and that matters. If you don't trust Bill Buck then how does this affect the Pegasos itself ? or even how does it affect MorphOS ? Just because you have no social life and hate someone who probably never ever harmed you in any ways doesn't make the resulting product become a bad product. Whatever the problems were it's just and alone something between Genesi/Thendic and the Employees, nothing for us wannabe experts and know it better.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 36 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 27-Feb-2004 11:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
None of those, I like Finnish Hesburger :) Well Pizza Hut is good too, but it's a bit too expensive for me.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 37 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 27-Feb-2004 11:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Anonymous):
That's what i said about Ainc too, guess what the majority did...
Right, they pissed on Ainc.

Cheers
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 38 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 11:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Amon_Re):
I believe we now have carte blanche to do what we will in the way of spamming any international audience press with comments about Genesis' precarious financial situation and its inability to pay its employees and impending court cases. After all, what is good for the goose is good for the gander...right?
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 39 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 27-Feb-2004 12:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Anonymous):
Hello mr Coward.

No, I will not issue a press release to take back what I wrote above.

By your reasoning, anyone who doesn't approve every kind of wild
accusation towards Genesi or BBRV is an "asslicker". I have some
criticism towards BBRV, but not that they would be stealing people's
IP by using some kind of bankruptcy scheme. From my point of view this
is a ridiculous theory.

A few days ago someone posted another conspiracy theory about Hyperion
and AmigaInc, see
http://www.ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=forum&file=1077161282.msg
I labeled this FUD. Just because AInc and Hyperion has problems
doesn't mean every kind of wild theory is justified.

Let me just say one thing about AInc here: If AInc had been closed
down like Thendic was when problems became overwhelming, I would be a
*lot* less critical towards AInc now. A bankruptcy hurts (cost me 3000
EUR this time) but shit happens. It's a lot better than keeping
people's false hopes up for years.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 40 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 27-Feb-2004 12:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Amon_Re):
That's what i said about Ainc too, guess what the majority did...
Right, they pissed on Ainc.


Yes, and?
The anonymous poster of comment #31 confused product and company management. Anon #35 pointed this out. Pissing on AInc/Genesi would be a logical reaction to the actions of those entities, pissing on their respective product(s) is not.

Piss on whatever company you like, both deserve it to a greater or lesser extent.

AmigaOS != AInc
Pegasos, MorphOS != Genesi
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 41 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 27-Feb-2004 13:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Seehund):
I think you missed my point, my point had nothing to do with products being made, but with the fact that some people seem to demand/expect Genesi to not get the crap that the same people gave Ainc.

Cheers
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 42 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 13:44 GMT
Los gatos en mis pantelones!
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 43 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 13:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Anonymous):
Well they, their core developers and their followers should have known that it would get back at them when THEY would get into financial trouble.
They had their fun about AmigaInc, now it's our turn.

I really hope they'll go bankrupt and that Rich woods will stalk Billy boy buck in the court cases
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 44 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 27-Feb-2004 14:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
> Some optimism though by the poster about MOS and the Pegasos which is nice to
> see... I wish BBRV luck and hope they have learnt along the way ;)


I wish; bbrv pay people they owe, while they still have pillow cases of cash lying around.

Quit paying lawyers, they gots plenty!


bill! bills!
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 45 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 27-Feb-2004 14:02 GMT
At least now that it looks like another BBRV company will be going Bankrupt soon (Genesi) the lawsuit against Amiga Inc. for a few lines of code looks even less important.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 46 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2004 14:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
> I really hope they'll go bankrupt and that Rich woods will stalk Billy boy buck
> in the court cases.

Would you please explain what your intentions are to say this ? Did Genesi harm you in any ways ? Did they shot your family or nuked your house ? How can you wish a company to go bancrupt ? Genesi did a lot of stuff in the past 1-2 years to re-animate this community. Sure there are depths and heights in every business no doubt and I do belive that a lot of things that happened for Genesi/Thendic wasn't planned as they happened afterwards. The ball is round you know, you shot it but never really know where it land. You should be thankful to them (even if you don't like them) for their previously work and public relations. Without them a lot of people wouldn't even know that there STILL is something like an Amiga community, without them people wouldn't even know that there are native PowerPC solutions and without them there wouldn't be the say 100 people who came back from Linux/Windows to this community to support it again. Indirectly they did quite a lot promotion even for the other side because people who got interested again got interested for both sides.

We can't say whether AmigaINC, Hyperion, Eyetech, Genesi or bPlan will survive because we can't see into the future but WE DO NEED every company that still backs the Amiga community, be it the spirit, be it because they love it, be it because they think it's right.

Just because YOU fell unconfortable with the situation that Genesi recently won the Amiga lawsuit doesn't mean that they are doing dirty stuff or dirty tricks. They only claimed their own good right what they had signed contract for. Sure there is also the problems with the employees but this is a different story and I do belive that this wasn't planned like this either. It was just a bunch of really shitty circumstances that need to get solved.

But to solve this, this has to be done in a normal mature and correct way and not publicly here. You shouldn't forget I think Genesi had a lot of influence even on the AmigaONE and AmigaOS4 development process without them you people would still play with an A1200+PowerPC card which they initially called AmigaONE and the development process for AOS4 would be yet again delayed for months because there isn't any competition - so they have all the time they needed. This community needs these companies, they need competition to keep lazy people moving and motivated.

Instead writing so much bullshit like you did before you should seriously reconsider, grabbing a good book about programming and get some junk ported to either AmigaOS or MorphOS or even AROS so we can all benefit from these fruits in the one or other way.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 47 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by oGALAXYo on 27-Feb-2004 14:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Anonymous):
I should sign my feedback!

oGALAXYo
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 48 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 27-Feb-2004 14:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
> They had their fun about AmigaInc, now it's our turn.

I'm sorry, but can't we all agree this is a very childish outlook? True, the
anti-AInc people have had their glory days (and rightly so due to the
stupid/unlucky/whatever situation the company is in). True, many have used the
parent company's problems as a an excuse also to bash at AOS in general. Many an
"anonymous" have raged on ANN with very murky personal motivations in mind.

But is it really nessecary to return the favour, now that problems seem to be
emerging also on the other side of the fence? Let's be a little more mature than
just using the "eye for an eye" approach ...
.
SlimJim
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 49 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 27-Feb-2004 14:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Johan Rönnblom):
>Just because AInc and Hyperion has problems
>doesn't mean every kind of wild theory is justified.

Hyperion does not have problems as it doesn't consider the unfounded rambling of an unschooled individual to constitute a problem.
How many unpaid Genesi employees? : Comment 50 of 214ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Feb-2004 14:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Anonymous):
> How can you wish a company to go bancrupt ?

Because its owner is bb & knowing what bb is.

> Genesi did a lot of stuff in the past 1-2 years to re-animate this community.

They did it for themselves, themselves and only themselves. And even part of "them" got shafted.
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