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[News] Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest MotionsANN.lu
Posted on 04-Mar-2004 00:05 GMT by Rich Woods216 comments
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Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions

DECLARATION of Bill Buck filed by Plaintiff Thendic Electronics Components re 49 MOTION to modify order (RS, ) (Entered: 03/03/2004)

MOTION by Plaintiff Thendic Electronics Components to modify the order granting specific performance. Noting Date 3/19/2004. (Attachments: # 1 note for motion# 2 Proposed Order)(RS, ) (Entered: 03/03/2004)

DECLARATION of Bill Buck filed by Plaintiff Thendic Electronics Components re 49 MOTION to modify order (RS, ) (Entered: 03/03/2004)

MOTION by Plaintiff Thendic Electronics Components to modify the order granting specific performance. Noting Date 3/19/2004. (Attachments: # 1 note for motion

#2 Proposed Order (RS, ) (Entered: 03/03/2004)

Main Documnet

Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 1 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 03-Mar-2004 23:50 GMT
The attachments (various Amiga, Inc. online documents, etc.) include the email from fleecy that was posted here (http://ann.lu/detail.cgi?category=forum&file=1077728127.msg) and drew arguments about its validity. Maybe we'll get some confirmation about that message one way or another. More generally, I hope the judge is up to sorting out "operating systems," "digital environments," etc. He's got executive updates and fleecy mails to make sense of -- no easy task.

-- gary_c
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 2 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 04-Mar-2004 00:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (gary_c):
Well, they can go on and beat on that dead horse all they want (using every means too, obviously). They're going to have to face Hyperion, Eyetech and European laws if they want more than just the "digital environment". Amiga Inc. cannot give Genesi what they want even if they wanted to.

Have fun wasting your employees salaries on attorney fees, BBRV!
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 3 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 04-Mar-2004 00:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (gary_c):
Very good question. But since Amiga has NO OPPOSITION and no lawyers - the judge may very well grant the motion.

Hughes IS a very good lawyer.

As far as the judge sorting out "operating systems" etc - think of the complexity of the AT&T AntiTrust case, or the Microsoft case, or the Enron case.

Literally MILLIONS of documents to sort thru etc - NOT an easy task being a Federal judge.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 4 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 04-Mar-2004 00:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (samface):
Well, they can go on and beat on that dead horse all they want (using every means too, obviously). They're going to have to face Hyperion, Eyetech and European laws if they want more than just the "digital environment". Amiga Inc. cannot give Genesi what they want even if they wanted to.

My understanding of Genesi's position is that their agreement with Amiga, Inc. predates Amiga, Inc.'s agreement with Hyperion, thus rendering it invalid if the court agrees with Genesi's contention that the present AmigaOS is a de facto continuation of how AmigaDE was positioned at the time of the Genesi-AI agreement.

-- gary_c

-- gary_c
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 5 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 04-Mar-2004 01:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (gary_c):
>if the court agrees with Genesi's contention that the present AmigaOS is a de
> facto continuation of how AmigaDE was positioned at the time of the Genesi-AI
> agreement.


If I remember correctly, at the time of the original agreement, AmigaDE was supposed to be something that would run hosted ontop of other Operating Systems (Linux, Windows, WinCE, etc) to provide programmers with a single standard for writing programs which could then run on a multitude of platforms with no changes. This is obviously not what Hyperion's OS4 is....

Of course, whether a Judge will see it this way is something that we'll all have to wait and see.

As far as I can tell, there's nothing in the contract to prevent Amiga Inc developing other lines of saoftware in addition to DE, however there's a line in the document that reads "to present and beyond, along with all Amiga systems, programs or software integrated into or otherwise ASSOCIATED with its DE Operating System". As it was announced that AmigaDE was to be indegrated into OS4.x then some could say that OS4.0 is ASSOCIATED with DE and thus needs to run on the Pegasos as part of this agreement.... hmmmmmmmmm
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 6 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Mar-2004 01:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Darrin):
>If I remember correctly, at the time of the original agreement, AmigaDE was supposed to be something that would run hosted ontop of other Operating Systems (Linux, Windows, WinCE, etc) to provide programmers with a single standard for writing programs which could then run on a multitude of platforms with no changes. This is obviously not what Hyperion's OS4 is....

I think you are right but OTOH AmigaDE back then was presented as _the_ AmigaOS3 successor (not OS4, that wasn't even an idea) and if Genesi argues that they made an agreement in that faith, ie a collaboration agreement for future OS versions, sentences such as "all upgrades to AmigaDE" could come back to haunt Amiga Inc., especiall since Genesi have the otherworldy comments by Fleecy to work with, his comical fascination for everything that has the word Digital in it.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 7 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 04-Mar-2004 01:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (samface):
>>Well, they can go on and beat on that dead horse all they want (using every >>means too, obviously). They're going to have to face Hyperion, Eyetech and >>European laws if they want more than just the "digital environment".

samface, how can I put this politely...you don't know anything.
going to court is the last thing any sane company would want, when they can only lose. Do you think Hyperion could actually gain something from Genesi...at best they have a liability, what they are hoping for, is nothing happens.

I still can't believe just how caught up amiga true believers still are, in all this....even I would like to see OS 4 do well...but it doesn't mean Hyperion is going to be standing down anyone in court.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 8 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Jan Smite on 04-Mar-2004 02:12 GMT
Do you really think that everything is valid for Bill Buck in order to achieve his aims? He can twist facts and documents all he wants, but following this way he only will achieve to destroy remaining efforts to get Amiga back, namely Hyperion and Eyetech. My guess is that they will fight, using its resources for lawyers instead of using them to work on their projects... :/ And if I were Hyperion I would prefer to destroy all my work before having to give it for free. Because this is what Buck really wants: OS4 for free. Perhaps MorphOS is not as good as he claims (I dont really know), or perhaps he has not enough money to develop his own OS (i.e., developers not been paid), but enough money to pay lawyers, who knows...........

And we should be gratefull towards Bill Buck? OMG, the very same day Bill Buck manages to stay as only actor in this story, if this ever happens -and I REALLY hope this won't happen-, I will leave Amiga world with revulsion, much to my regret :( Keep this way, Bill Buck, you are doing a very good PR campaign. :Ţ

J.S.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 9 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 04-Mar-2004 03:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Jan Smite):
... he only will achieve to destroy remaining efforts to get Amiga back, namely Hyperion and Eyetech.

If I read bbrv correctly, they don't want to destroy these companies and in fact are intending to offer them better deals than they now have with Amiga, Inc.

My guess is that they will fight, using its resources for lawyers instead of using them to work on their projects... :/

You would want to see what is offered, first, wouldn't you?

And if I were Hyperion I would prefer to destroy all my work before having to give it for free. Because this is what Buck really wants: OS4 for free.

I don't know for sure what he wants, but I don't think it's OS4 "for free." I think he wants Amiga, Inc. out of the picture because they're basically a drag on everything (my opinion), and I think maybe he'd like OS4 to be available for the Pegasos. I think he'd like it offered as other OSs are offered, not under some weird license scheme. I don't know if AmigaDE in Genesi's hands would be much of an asset, but it certainly isn't going anywhere with Amiga, Inc.

-- gary_c
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 10 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 04-Mar-2004 03:37 GMT
/me (again) whistling the theme from "the neverending story" =)
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 11 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Mar-2004 04:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (hooligan/dcs):
This whole thing will end with Bill Buck forcing Amiga Inc to declare bankruptcy in about a year's time, and then he will have the entire remaining amiga community all to himself: all five of them. Somehow I see gary_c being one of those five ;)
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 12 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by DSLCC on 04-Mar-2004 05:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
Count me in. :)
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 13 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by DSLCC on 04-Mar-2004 05:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
Count me in. :)
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 14 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 04-Mar-2004 05:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (DSLCC):
So that's gary_c and 2 DJLCC's. Who are the other 2?
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 15 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 04-Mar-2004 05:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Nate Downes):
Er, DSLCC
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 16 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 04-Mar-2004 06:57 GMT
Not again! I tought we finally passed this lawsuit :(
Oh well, guess some people will be waiting even longer on the money they are owed by Genesi now *sigh*

Cheers
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 17 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by SJ on 04-Mar-2004 07:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (gary_c):
>If I read bbrv correctly, they don't want to destroy these companies and in
>fact are intending to offer them better deals than they now have with Amiga,
>Inc.

If he can't even pay his current staff, why would anyone believe he could be of any monetary use to Eyetech/Hyperion?

I think most people think of Eyetech/Hyperion as decent companies consisting of honest, hardworking people. Why would those companies risk their reputation by being associated with that mobster Bill Buck?
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 18 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Freddies Dad on 04-Mar-2004 07:55 GMT
Well, if there was ever any doubt as to Genesi's intentions regarding the AmigaOS that they once claimed to have no interest in, this puts that doubt firmly to rest.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 19 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Mar-2004 08:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Amon_Re):
Bill Buck has decided that since Amiga Inc can't afford lawyers, he can take them for all they're worth. I used to think Bill was a bit of a hardass, but basically a stand-up guy. This takes things to a new low, it's like watching a mob kicking a guy on the ground, or vultures picking over a dead animal. The man has no morals at all, his only code seems to be "if noone can stop me, I can do whatever I want"
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 20 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Jan Smite on 04-Mar-2004 08:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (gary_c):
@gary_c

Did you read the "Proposed order":

"Defendant shall within thirty days from the date of this Order grant plaintiffs right's and possession to Amiga's DE Operating System and any and all "Documentation", "Source Code, "'Object Code", "Derivative Work", "Enhancernents", including improvements, "Updates", and "Upgrades", as of November 10, 2000 (the date the "AGREEMENT was executed) to present and beyond, along with all Amiga systems, programs or software integration into or otherwise associated with its DE Operating System, for integration into Pegasos and any other present or future "Thendic" product."

1. BB states that OS4 is part of the AmigaDE path.
2. BB states that, given point 1, Amiga Inc. agreement with Hyperion is invalid.
3. Given points 1 and 2, Amiga is responsible for AOS4, whoever they contract to do the work, so the obligation to pay Hyperion is up to Amiga, not Genesi, since the Thendic/Amiga agreement states that Thendic will pay only per sold units.
4. In lawyer words, see sentence in bold: 30 days to give to Thendic/Genesi all souerces of AmigaDE and related, i.e. AOS4

AFAIU, all these words mean that he wants AOS4 in the very same conditions than AmigaDE, i.e. without having to pay for it previously, having access to all the work already done, all the sources, "for integration into Pegasos". The very day Amiga signed this 'agreement', they married to the mob :/

If I read bbrv correctly, they don't want to destroy these companies and in fact are intending to offer them better deals than they now have with Amiga, Inc.

Yes, but with previous access to sources, he, he...... Then Buck will offer Hyperion a BIG deal they cannot refuse.

You would want to see what is offered, first, wouldn't you?

Before or after the thirty days that Amiga has to provide Genesi with all the sources, including AOS4? Anyway, I wouldn't trust any proposition from Bill Buck, you can ask several persons over here (hi, Christian!)


I think he wants Amiga, Inc. out of the picture

Amiga is already out of he picture!!! Thay cannot even defend themselves!! The image coming to my mind is made of vultures and hyenas.


I think he'd like it offered as other OSs are offered, not under some weird license scheme.

You must be joking!! Going into lawsuits for an OS when you have plenty of them??!! I just can't believe it. I can think only of a reason: AOS4 is more important to Bill Buck than he wants to admit, even more important than MOS itself, since he's putting the money in lawsuits instead of paying MOS developers.

J.S.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 21 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll on 04-Mar-2004 08:49 GMT
I'm recalling something from memory.. it may not be 100% correct..

Bill McEwen admitted at an Amiga show a few years ago (cant remember which one) that when they licensed the Intent stuff from TAO, 70% of the stuff they expected to get was not there.. i.e. it was 70% incomplete and they had to write their own stuff to make up for the missing components or modules or whatever it was they were missing.

Also, they then discovered that it was not suitable as a desktop OS.. because of no memory protection maybe? I should really do some googling sometime.

So taking into account these things.. does Thendic have a case? Because of these issues, I think Amiga Inc were forced to abandon the DE idea and come up with OS4 which would eventually lead to OS5..? a sort of AmigaOS/DE hybrid? I'm not sure.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 22 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 04-Mar-2004 09:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (James Carroll):
So taking into account these things.. does Thendic have a case

But that was after agreement and what followed after that is still upgrade to DE as worded in contract. I should put questionmark here, as I understood case was made along the lines of this logic.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 23 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by InsideIn on 04-Mar-2004 09:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (SJ):
<snip>
I think most people think of Eyetech/Hyperion as decent companies consisting of honest, hardworking people. Why would those companies risk their reputation by being associated with that mobster Bill Buck?
<snip>

Lol honest people? Have you forgotton the "OS4 is ready in 6 months" issue in 2001! The lies about the Artica bug "Its not a bug its a feature" ?
How often has Hyperion lied about the real state of OS4 ? The often you cant count it anymore. Tell me where is the pre-release supposed for Christmas 2003?! 3 months are passed and once more no OS4 is in view.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 24 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 04-Mar-2004 10:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Nate Downes):
LOL :)

Cheers
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 25 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 04-Mar-2004 10:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
I wouldn't compare BBRV to vultures, vultures perform a role in nature, BBRV is just bad weed

Cheers
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 26 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous coward on 04-Mar-2004 10:22 GMT
Thank you BBRV! The whole computer industry is laughing on us!
Thanks also goes to AmigaInc, but mostly to BBRV who cannot let the lion sleep.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 27 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by AJSL on 04-Mar-2004 10:25 GMT
The one constant through all of this legal wrangling (to me anyway) appears to be Amiga Inc's gross naiveté in signing anything so far reaching and vague as this agreement with Thendic/Genesi. And now that AInc doesn’t seem to exist as an entity anymore Genesi is free to plunder the corpse for all it's worth.

But perhaps what's even worse is regardless of the outcome it's yet another blow to the Amiga "community". Just when things were looking up with AOS4 on it's way RSN <tm>. Three (two available now the A1SE and A1XE, with the MicroA1 on the way) flavours of Amiga branded hardware. Two other Amiga inspired operating systems that are available now (AROS and MorphOS). As well as two flavours of dedicated hardware to run MorphOS (Pegasos 1 & 2).

I'm sure regardless of what flavour of Amiga you're fond of, you've got to admit that this can't look good to someone new (or returning) to the Amiga scene.

Alex.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 28 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Mar-2004 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Anonymous coward):
> I wouldn't compare BBRV to vultures, vultures perform a role in nature, BBRV is just bad weed

And weed doesn't perform a role in nature? It's the habitat of butterflies.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 29 of 216ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Insult
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 30 of 216ANN.lu
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: insult
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 31 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Mar-2004 10:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Anonymous):
This is not ment to be taken literarly by the way, there are even worse people on this planet and I don't wish them to die either.........
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 32 of 216ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 30 (Anonymous):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: follow up to insult
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 33 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 04-Mar-2004 11:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (AJSL):
> Just when things were looking up with AOS4

(Just as a note - people has been saying that about OS4 during the last 2 years now.)

> But perhaps what's even worse is regardless of the outcome it's yet another
> blow to the Amiga "community".

IMO, this is in no way a blow to the *community*.

> I'm sure regardless of what flavour of Amiga you're fond of, you've got to
> admit that this can't look good to someone new (or returning) to the Amiga
> scene.

I really don't think that many ordinary users cares a great deal about this; I would say that the most important thing to a new/returning "Amigan" is that there is a new and modernized OS available and some 100% flawless hardware to run on it. Something tangible.

Amiga Inc has been doing a great job of looking really bad themselves during the last 1.5 years anyway, without any help from the outside. However, this might soon be over. I guess it depends on what happens next, and how involved companies chooses to deal with it ...
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 34 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 04-Mar-2004 11:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
> And weed doesn't perform a role in nature? It's the habitat of butterflies.

:-D
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 35 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 04-Mar-2004 11:29 GMT
OK, for the sake of argument:

Lets assume BBRV/Genesi win, with their wishes being granted by US courts.
1. Where does that leave Hyperion?
2. Where does it leave people with A1 based systems?
3. Where the hell is OS 4.2 going to come from? Is it going to be MOS based? Is it going to be a license of OS4 from Hyperion with additions by unknown other people? (MOS perhaps? AROS?)
4. Will it mean that the Pegasos gets Amiga branded as well as being the Pegasos line?
5. Will Genesi hook back into the Amiga community they said they left/wanted to leave?
6. What legal issues will occur from angles not currently seen (Gateway? EU law? Other issues?)
7. Given Genesi's current financial, no wait, let me rephrase- Rough estimated financial position, are they in a good position to actually use what they have won in court?

AdmV
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 36 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Cow on 04-Mar-2004 11:44 GMT
I assume, BBRV knows, they bankrupted. The only thing they want is to demolish the others. If they have to die, they don't want to do it alone.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 37 of 216ANN.lu
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Unsult
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 38 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 04-Mar-2004 11:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (samface):
>Well, they can go on and beat on that dead horse all they want (using every means too, obviously). They're going to have to face Hyperion, Eyetech

Don't believe that the companies you quoted are going to
start a battle where they can loose potential customers. The
only ones who really support Amiga Inc (which is different
from Eyetech and Hyperion) are Amiga die hard fans on online
forums. Companies seeks moneys and neither Hyperion nor
Eyetech would trash money from Genesi customers.

Have nice dreams, full of t-shirts from people who have been
hit with the same business model they attempted to do (kill
other companies using the laaw).
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 39 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Mar-2004 11:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
Like Bill Gates, but Gates at least has class.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 40 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 04-Mar-2004 11:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Anonymous):
> This email, posted here by a person I've never heard of, is exactly what
> Billyboy

HEY! You can't use that "BillyBoy" word freely in association with Genesi people, that name is reserved for a certain Amiga Inc man! Trademark Infringement! However, Amiga Inc are always looking for partners who are willing to accept their license conditions, but since the support to end-user has to be ensured, it's not going to be cheap. The license fee is about €2.000.000, but that includes a full port of the word from the Amiga Inc people to Genesi people, the right to use it in on-line forums and such, as well as a membership card in the "BillyBoy" club and a virtual "I Am BillyBoy" AnyWear T-shirt!
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 41 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 04-Mar-2004 11:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Cow):
And is this the new europe, one where people are enlightened, or are you the europe of the future, foaming at the mouth and wanting war with those Americans.
Racism could be applied. In this case I think I'll opt for stupidity.

BBRV employs and works IN the EU.

AdmV
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 42 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 04-Mar-2004 11:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Cow):
Well, they were surely live enough to bring me my latest Pegasos! A G3 this time. I got it yesterday (it's from the February production run).
:-)
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 43 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 04-Mar-2004 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Cow):
> Europian people respects the creators

I agree, I totally respect the creators of the Pegasos motherboard and the MorphOS team.

(I also have a deep respect for the OS4 effort BTW)
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 44 of 216ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 41 (AdmV):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Insult
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 45 of 216ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 29 (Amon_Re):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Follow up to insult
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 46 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Cow on 04-Mar-2004 12:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (takemehomegrandma):
" I agree, I totally respect the creators of the Pegasos motherboard and the MorphOS team.

(I also have a deep respect for the OS4 effort BTW)"
Aggre, and same respect to Eyetech too.

But, is there any respect to a guy who is not paying his employies, instead spending more money to lawyers???
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 47 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Alan Anthony on 04-Mar-2004 12:58 GMT
I would like to know why he is still going down this path.

From what I understand....

He doesn't have anything to run DE (even if it existed)
He doesn't want OS4
and he doesn't want the brand name.

Now add in the rumors of funding issues with his own company and it doesn't make sense.

If things carry on like this Amiga Inc will die and Thendic/Genesi will die or be weakened financially in the process. OS4 development will stop and we will end up with a load of bust up bitter companies/people and no Pegs OR A1s.

I proabaly edge towards the Amiga side of the OS rather than Morphos, but I don't want to see either solution fail and if this keeps up both will die.

Sad


Sad.
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 48 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 04-Mar-2004 13:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Cow):
> But, is there any respect to a guy who is not paying his employies, instead
> spending more money to lawyers???

I actually think they made the right right decision here, but it was *certainly not* an easy decision for them to make. It's of course not like *they wanted* this unfortunate situation to arise, but their choice might have been between making some small/slow/no payments to selected employees for a couple(?) of months while they are trying to resolve the situation (for *everyone* involved), or to empty the whole bank vault at one big blow and then close down the shop forever. It would probably have been much easier to just roll over and die, but they chose to struggle to resolve the situation. The lawyers and the legal processes is probably part of that struggle. We who neither have full insight in the situation at large, nor BBRV's strategies, can't possibly say anything fair about their ways and decisions. But if the lawyers can help Genesi's future in some way (and the future of the people who are/were employed/involved with Genesi), then they are of strategic long term importance. And neglecting those long term responsibilities would be far worse than temporarily neglecting some short term responsibilities IMHO. Chopping some toes is probably more preferrable in the long run than chopping both legs, but being forced into a situation where you have to make such a decision is probably not very fun.

I know very well that people has suffered because of this unfortunate situation. It's totally understandable that people like Christian Kemp is totally pissed with Genesi, and his (and others?) situation certainly makes Genesi look bad in public. In a post above I wrote: "Amiga Inc has been doing a great job of looking really bad themselves during the last 1.5 years anyway, without any help from the outside". One difference between them and Genesi is that in Genesi's case we are so far not measuring the dark ages in "years", but in "months". But the *main* difference here is that Genesi certainly *did* get "help" from the outside, and I am thinking about the Thendic France situation here; things beyond their control that kicked them hard in solar plexus. I think it's possible that everyone involved in Genesi suffered from this in one way or another. However, they might very well recover fully, and the new (earlier than expected) batch of Pegasos boards is a good sign IMO.

So again, yes, I actually think they have made the right decision, even if my words may look blatantly ugly and rude to the people who suffered from this decision. IMHO, Genesi has choosen to aim for a possible nice future (for all involved), instead of dying a nice death (which also involves all).
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 49 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Cow on 04-Mar-2004 13:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (takemehomegrandma):
"But if the lawyers can help Genesi's future in some way"

Lawers taking money into their pockets and not reverse!

What will Bill Buck going to do when the court will end with his victory and he has an empty pocket???
Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 50 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 04-Mar-2004 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Cow):
But, is there any respect to a guy who is not paying his employies, instead spending more money to lawyers???

This is a simple description, but is it accurate? Do you know how Bill Buck is paying his lawyer? Do you know if this expense is flat or if it is increased by such filings? Do you know if not filing such papers would mean more money available for employees? It's amazing to me how people with so little real information have no trouble arriving at a conclusion.

-- gary_c
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