| [News] Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 04-Mar-2004 00:05 GMT by Rich Woods | 216 comments
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Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions
DECLARATION of Bill Buck filed by Plaintiff Thendic Electronics Components re 49 MOTION to modify order (RS, ) (Entered: 03/03/2004)
MOTION by Plaintiff Thendic Electronics Components to modify the order granting specific performance. Noting Date 3/19/2004. (Attachments: # 1 note for motion# 2 Proposed Order)(RS, ) (Entered: 03/03/2004)
DECLARATION of Bill Buck filed by Plaintiff Thendic Electronics Components re 49
MOTION to modify order (RS, ) (Entered: 03/03/2004)
MOTION by Plaintiff Thendic Electronics Components to modify the order granting specific performance. Noting Date 3/19/2004. (Attachments: # 1
note for motion
#2 Proposed Order (RS, ) (Entered: 03/03/2004)
Main Documnet
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 151 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 05-Mar-2004 12:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 146 (Amon_Re):
Sure not, but its less outdated than A1, and costs pretty much less. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 152 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by T1k on 05-Mar-2004 12:28 GMT | I did it again. I read the entire thread and wasted a lot of energy trying to make it all make sense. Of course I failed.
Now here's my angle.
I have not used an Amiga for a very long time, but I wanna start again.
Why? Because I don't like PC, and neither Mac. And because from outside (read: not in this dark and hostile forum) things really look like they're moving on the Amiga-front.
I attended a conference some weeks ago and the main guest there turned out to be Stefan Boberg. (I assume every Amiga-user knows who he is. If you don't, do a newcli lha -x something.lha to somedir) He talked about his work in DICE and he also mentioned (quite a lot) about his past with Amiga. Now guess what. In the back of the line where I sat I suddenly heard a whole bunch of students talking about the NEW Amiga. And as their conversation went on it became clear to me that the new Amiga they talked about was really Pegasos with MorphOS. They mentioned AmigaONE and OS4 too, but it seemed they had no faith in it and didn't even see it as an logical upgrade path. No, the new cool thing was clearly MorphOS. There were many students present at the conference and when Stefan made jokes about cheats in games he made (like alienbreed, anyone remeber the ST mode? :)), the audience nodded and laughed and seemed to know exactly what he was talking about. I was amazed, all of a sudden the room seemed to be full of amiga-friends, and people next to me was raving about the NEW amiga.
Since then I've been in contact with several old amiga-friends to see what they knew about all this, and I also sent emails to both Amiga Inc. and Genesi inquireing about information, mainly to see what kind of response I would get.
And this is what I got: AmigaInc never answered. Dead silent. Genesi on the other hand, in the form of Bill Buck, had an answer for me the very next morning. The mail was personal, and he gave me directions to several sources of information and also pointed me to a usergroup in sweden named PUGS (Pegasos User Group Sweden), which I didn't know of. And last but not least he thanked me for my interest in Pegasos and MorphOS.
From my point of view there is only one option: MorphOS
I couldn't care less about who sues who or any of the problems "up there" on corporate level, I simply want an Amiga-like computer to use.
And I have yet to see a single good argument for investing in a so called "real" amiga instead of MorphOS. All the slandering in this forum (and others) could halt anyone from going either blue or red, BUT, to me it seems that what happens here has little to do with the real world.
The human mind, and maybe even the universe itself, operates not on reality but on the *perception* of reality. And my perception is that Pegasos and MorphOS is for real.
Have a nice day
--
T1k |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 153 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Mar-2004 12:51 GMT | In reply to Comment 150 (Metamiwoo):
1) BBRV *will not* get those sources tho, atmost he might get a port of AOS4, and he'll need to pay for that.
- But if we can have Amiga OS 4 on Pegasos, don't you think that AmigaOne will die ?
I don't see why it would, it would open up Eyetech to some direct competition, yes, but that doesn't mean it'll just go up in smoke, Eyetech might reduce it's prices, or come up with another A1 board that has things the Pegasos 2 lacks and vice versa
2) A merge between AOS/MOS is not likely to happen, and both could coexist if MOS continues to develop towards something unique, as it's stand now it's just another Amiga clone, like AROS
- As I said, I don't know anything about MorphOS but I can't really see how the two OS could co-exist as REAL OS. OK, we could have two geeks OS like OpenBe, QNX... but that's not what we all want for Amiga, do we ? I thought AmigaOS has always had the purpose to be "mainstream" (as "mainstream" I don't mean with millions copies but with real applications in every areas like Windows or MacOS) and not to be on a "niche" market.
Do you consider Linux as mainstream? I personally do, do i consider AOS/MOS as mainstream? Nope, nor do i consider them any serious contentents for a big market, aslong as we don't have office apps & new browsers AOS/MOS will remain hobby OSes.
I don't see how a merger between them would change that
3) What i don't get is his (BBRV) tenacity, even in the unlikely event that he gets AOS4, it's unlikely that he'll gaain more then 100 users from this, and the current market is just to small to allow a company like Genesi to survive, developing an OS and a hardware platform, that's expensive, very expensive, and at their current prices they can't be making alot of money on them, if any.
He should be more focussed on markets *outside* of the community, and the only asset that could be of value to him for that is the name, the OS itself isn't very usefull, except perhaps for setup boxes, and even then, both AOS & MOS are lacking in that department (browsers etc)
I guess he'll go through our memories as "The man that wanted to be Amiga"
- His position about AmigaOS has always been strange : I never understood why he didn't want to licence it for its Pegasos (even if the Amiga inc. contract was dishonest, it would have strongly increased the Pegasos sales)
As far as i know he wanted Hyperion to port at at their own expense, without obtaining a licence, perhaps the deal with Ainc wasn't fair, i don't know, i don't even know if he actually ever asked Ainc for that matter.
Cheers |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 154 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Mar-2004 12:53 GMT | In reply to Comment 151 (Anonymous):
Wether or not a price is fair is something for the individual to decide i think, what you find too expensive might seem reasonable or affordable to someone else.
Cheers |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 155 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Mar-2004 13:06 GMT | In reply to Comment 152 (T1k):
I did it again. I read the entire thread and wasted a lot of energy trying to make it all make sense. Of course I failed.
Lol ;)
Now here's my angle.
I have not used an Amiga for a very long time, but I wanna start again.
Why? Because I don't like PC, and neither Mac. And because from outside (read: not in this dark and hostile forum) things really look like they're moving on the Amiga-front.
If one takes a step back & looks at whats been going on, yea, things are moving up
I attended a conference some weeks ago and the main guest there turned out to be Stefan Boberg. (I assume every Amiga-user knows who he is. If you don't, do a newcli lha -x something.lha to somedir) He talked about his work in DICE and he also mentioned (quite a lot) about his past with Amiga. Now
guess what. In the back of the line where I sat I suddenly heard a whole bunch of students talking about the NEW Amiga. And as their conversation went on it became clear to me that the new Amiga they talked about was really Pegasos with MorphOS. They mentioned AmigaONE and OS4 too, but it seemed they had no faith in it and didn't even see it as an logical upgrade path. No, the new cool thing was clearly MorphOS. There were many students present at the conference and when Stefan made jokes about cheats in games he made (like alienbreed, anyone remeber the ST mode? :)), the audience nodded and laughed and seemed to know exactly what he was talking about. I was amazed, all of a sudden the room seemed to be full of amiga-friends, and people next to me was raving about the NEW amiga.
This part however, seems to me to be an exaggeration, i personally know of no students who ever heard of AOS or MOS whom aren't part of the hellpit we call our community lately, and i also find it hard to believe people would have a hard thing considering MOS to be a more logical evolution to AOS then AOS itself.
Since then I've been in contact with several old amiga-friends to see what they knew about all this, and I also sent emails to both Amiga Inc. and Genesi inquireing about information, mainly to see what kind of response I would get.
And this is what I got: AmigaInc never answered. Dead silent. Genesi on the other hand, in the form of Bill Buck, had an answer for me the very next morning. The mail was personal, and he gave me directions to several sources of information and also pointed me to a usergroup in sweden named PUGS (Pegasos User Group Sweden), which I didn't know of. And last but not least he thanked me for my interest in Pegasos and MorphOS.
That does sound probable, looks like BBRV has nothing better to do then reply to emails & forums, after all, a company runs itself right? Social security & paying wages go automagicly. (NOT)
As for Ainc, well, screw them ;) If you do want to know about AOS4 you'd goto Hyperion, not a dead entity like Ainc
From my point of view there is only one option: MorphOS
I can respect that, and in a way, it is true, as AOS4 isn't in the shops yet
I couldn't care less about who sues who or any of the problems "up there" on corporate level, I simply want an Amiga-like computer to use.
Then all the available options will fullfill you with your needs
And I have yet to see a single good argument for investing in a so called "real" amiga instead of MorphOS. All the slandering in this forum (and others) could halt anyone from going either blue or red, BUT, to me it seems that what happens here has little to do with the real world.
The human mind, and maybe even the universe itself, operates not on reality but on the *perception* of reality. And my perception is that Pegasos and MorphOS is for real.
There's no sensible argument for eighter product, both are lacking in features & available applications, and instead of going to court & all that crap they would be better of coding their arses off on new apps ;)
Cheers |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 156 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Gregg on 05-Mar-2004 13:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 141 (Anonymous):
You forgot all honnest developers who will refuse to work for bbrv
Almost all of them are the best.
BBRV will, and has started 2 years ago to kill what remains of this communuity.
You know, you're so right, and this is so obvious, I'm amazed Bill Buck didn't foresee the problem.
Now, just for laughs, do tell us which of the developers currently working on or with MorphOS are crooked, and which are stupid.
Oh, silly me - they're all _both_ stupid _and_ crooked, aren't they?
You know, with this much stupidity in the community, maybe Bill Buck is doing humanity a favour - killing it off should raise the planet's average IQ quite a bit...
Gregg |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 157 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Amon_Re on 05-Mar-2004 13:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 156 (Gregg):
*Sniff sniff* Yep, i knew it, Sarcasm! ;)
Cheers |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 158 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 05-Mar-2004 14:08 GMT | In reply to Comment 130 (Jan Smite):
> Are you sure? Genesi is claiming for access to ALL sources, including OS4,
> since they say it's the 'upgrade' of AmigaDE or the path for its development,
> whoever is the current developer.
They can claim whatever they want, but since AmigaInc doesn't own OS4 in the first place, they cannot give it to Genesi. Hyperion was in good faith when they signed the contract with AInc, no judge will ever make them pay for an - alledged - AInc's fault. The worst that can happen is that Hyperion won't be able to call their OS "AmigaOS".
> Since it is a derivative work from v3.1, as Don Cox says, Amiga still holds
> the IP.
They hold the IP over AOS3.1, not over whatever Hyperion wrote. Unless the contract Hyperion have with AInc explicitely states that all the workd Hyperion's employee or freelances is owned by AInc.
> If Buck asks the judge for the right to access to ALL sources, including OS4,
> and the judge grants this right, only burning the sources will prevent Buck
> from get them.
A judge cannot grant access to something which is not owned by _either_ parties in the process. If he/she does,
> > I think BB is trying to gather too much from this, and Judges are not
> > stupid...
> Agreed. Way too much. And no, they are not stupid, but given the fact that
> Amiga cannot even defend themselves, noone will refute Buck claims, and,
> again, no 'merits' will be taken into account, it will be judged by default.
> Do you know the italian song "Parole, parole"? Sing with me: "Vulture,
> vulture, vulture......"! :)
It doesn't matter if AInc can defend themselves, if something is not possible it's simply not possible. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 159 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by EyeAm on 05-Mar-2004 14:27 GMT | It may be the most difficult thing they ever do, but in the end AMIGA, INC. will win. It may be a case where Genesi wins psychologically, but never materially; and vice-versa for Amiga. But it won't lose the name or the OS.
--EyeAm |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 160 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by hooligan/dcs on 05-Mar-2004 15:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 154 (Amon_Re):
>Wether or not a price is fair is something for the individual to decide i think, what you find too expensive might seem reasonable or affordable to someone else.
Come on.. don't play games here. I make good money and even I keep A1 quite expensive. Let alone people who aren't working, or working with less salary. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 161 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Toner on 05-Mar-2004 15:28 GMT | In reply to Comment 150 (Metamiwoo):
>But if we can have Amiga OS 4 on Pegasos, don't you think that AmigaOne will die ?
Well, there's still Eyetech's industrial/embedded market, which is probably a lot bigger than us Amiga users aas a market... I'd imagine we're small pickins.
Plus, there's some people that don't trust Buck and friends at this point. Myself, I'm not particularly concerned about price, but Buck's methods annoy me, and because of that I don't expect I'll be supporting him or his company. Going beyond the spirit of a contract to thrash someone seemingly in a coma (Amiga Inc.) just doesn't make him look like a good guy, regardless of what your opinion of the comatose one is. OS4.0 isn't integrated or in any other way related to DE other than partially by name, so isn't covered under the Thendic contract, and Buck is just trying to steal something he has no rights to. I don't think that's cool, and I won't buy from him because of his attitude. I'll leave the Amiga comminuty before that, as I honestly don't think there will be anything left anyway if Buck "wins". "Legal" or not, some of what he does is very bad form. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 162 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 05-Mar-2004 17:18 GMT | In reply to Comment 161 (Bill Toner):
same here. We used to criticize Microsoft for its practices, but you know what? I think M$ is way better and if I had the two Bill's in front of me (Gates and Buck) and a cake it wouldn't end up on the face of Gates this time ;-) |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 163 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Lost souls on 05-Mar-2004 18:26 GMT | In reply to Comment 145 (Fluffy Miffed):
"I think Gateway has nothing to tell about all this story, they sold all Amiga IP to Aminino"
I think you'll find that all they sold was the right to use all Amiga IP in perpuity - I don't know how the contract was worded so I don't know if these rights would automatically pass to a hostile third party. Obviously Amino had the right to pass those rights to Amiga and on to Hyperion."
Gateway should again be contacted. Maybe they can become a new partner/investor for AI.
If you look at the GW, news releases of late, they wish to move away from computers. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 164 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabian Jimenez on 05-Mar-2004 18:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 155 (Amon_Re):
"There's no sensible argument for [either] product, both are lacking in features & available applications, and instead of going to court & all that crap they would be better of coding their arses off on new apps ;) "
Finally, the most sensible statement I have seen in a long time around here. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 165 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 05-Mar-2004 22:06 GMT | There was a point in time where I, even though I disliked some of BBRV's behaivour, still respected what they accomplished.
That time is no longer.
BBRV might end up with an Amiga name on some products (made by the thiefs at DCE), but I doubt they will ever sell a single unit here in Denmark.
Unlike what many of the so-called blue camp (if that still exists, I allready talked to two guys having had it with BBRV) it's not about the name, it's about persons about trusting people.
And BBRV is not to be trusted. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 166 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by BCP on 06-Mar-2004 00:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 160 (hooligan/dcs):
The AmigaOnes are expensive, but so were the A3000s and A4000s when they were
still in production. Compared to what I paid for my A3000 just after they were
discontinued (and reduced in price), the A1 is not particularily expensive -
especially when you consider that the U.S. $ was worth more in 1991. If Amiga OS is what you want (or Mac OS for that matter) the price of the hardware is simply something one has to accept.
-BCP |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 167 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by gary_c on 06-Mar-2004 06:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 166 (BCP):
The AmigaOnes are expensive, but so were the A3000s and A4000s when they were
still in production.
The difference is that A3000s and A4000s had unique qualities that, along with the OS, justified the price premium and made them look good compared to other choices at the time. The AmigaOne is an expensive generic motherboard at the low end of the performance range compared to current alternatives and apparently has parts that don't work (onboard sound, DMA, parallel port are what I've been reading about so far; please let me know if these have been shown to work properly).
-- gary_c |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 168 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 07:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 4 (gary_c):
>My understanding of Genesi's position is that their agreement with Amiga, Inc.
>predates Amiga, Inc.'s agreement with Hyperion, thus rendering it invalid if
>the court agrees with Genesi's contention that the present AmigaOS is a de
>facto continuation of how AmigaDE was positioned at the time of the Genesi-AI
>agreement.
The judge may rule whatever he wants against Amiga Inc., it still doesn't affect Hyperion. A court of law cannot rule against someone and their rights without giving them the ability to defend themselves first. In order to have the contract between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion nullified, they need to file for another lawsuit against Hyperion rather than just Amiga Inc. As far as Hyperion is concerned, their contract remains valid until a European/Belgium court of law tells them otherwise. This means that a ruling against Amiga Inc. alone will not suffice, in order to claim the rights for AmigaOS4, Genesi will have to take legal action against Hyperion directly.
Hyperion as well as Eyetech has responded that they will take every action neccessary to protect their rights. A lawsuit against them is not something Genesi should expect to go unopposed. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 169 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by gary_c on 06-Mar-2004 07:56 GMT | In reply to Comment 168 (samface):
The judge may rule whatever he wants against Amiga Inc., it still doesn't affect Hyperion. A court of law cannot rule against someone and their rights without giving them the ability to defend themselves first. In order to have the contract between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion nullified, they need to file for another lawsuit against Hyperion rather than just Amiga Inc. As far as Hyperion is concerned, their contract remains valid until a European/Belgium court of law tells them otherwise. This means that a ruling against Amiga Inc. alone will not suffice, in order to claim the rights for AmigaOS4, Genesi will have to take legal action against Hyperion directly.
Are you or anyone else who has commented about this situation a lawyer? I don't think so. Everyone is just giving a layman's opinion, which is fun but basically pointless. Anyway, to continue in worthless conversation mode, what I've heard, from a guy who isn't a lawyer but has one to talk to for free on a daily basis, is that the Amiga, Inc. - Thendic/Genesi agreement predates the AI - Hyperion one, thus rendering the latter invalid wherever it conflicts with the former. Further, it would be up to Hyperion to sue *Amiga, Inc.* to reclaim anything they feel is due them (not Genesi), because it was Amiga, Inc. that made an agreement that they didn't have a right to make at the time, given the preceeding agreement with Thendic/Genesi.
I don't know if this is the correct interpretation or not, as I'm not only not a lawyer, but also completely willing to confess that my opinion on law is as worthless as everyone else's here.
The only thing we can do is wait and see how things are settled by the judge. In the meantime, yours and my and other opinions about what any of these companies can and can't do in the legal arena are just wasted bandwidth in my opinion.
-- gary_c |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 170 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by J. Pillow on 06-Mar-2004 08:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 168 (samface):
> The judge may rule whatever he wants against Amiga Inc., it still doesn't
> affect Hyperion. A court of law cannot rule against someone and their rights
> without giving them the ability to defend themselves first. In order to have
> the contract between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion nullified, they need to file for
> another lawsuit against Hyperion rather than just Amiga Inc. As far as
> Hyperion is concerned, their contract remains valid until a European/Belgium
> court of law tells them otherwise.
I will keep it short and simple: This is TOTAL and UTTER NONSENSE.
If you send Mr. Hermans an email, he is perhaps kind enough to explain to you that what you wrote is completely WRONG.
Apparently, you have NO idea about law whatsoever. I hereby suggest you do at least SOME research before you make your next comment. This is really getting annoying.
P.S. Jeeez. This guy really pissed me off... |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 171 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 09:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 170 (J. Pillow):
How is Genesi supposed to stop Hyperion from releasing AmigaOS4 as AmigaOS4 and then force them to give Genesi access to AmigaOS4 sources if not with legal action? What makes you think a Belgium company would have to subject to a U.S. court ruling? |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 172 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Mar-2004 09:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 160 (hooligan/dcs):
I'm not playing games, i think wether or not you are willing to buy these boards is something you have to decide yourself, as an individual.
The question is "am i willing to spend x amount of euro's on my hobby? yes/no", in other words, is the price acceptable in relation of my hobby?
Cheers |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 173 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 09:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 169 (gary_c):
AmigaOS4 is not Amiga Inc.'s product nor does Amiga Inc. has access to the sources. The rights for AmigaOS4 was transfered to Hyperion and no matter what court ruling Genesi will get in this case against Amiga Inc., they will still have to take legal action against Hyperion in order to enforce it. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 174 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by gary_c on 06-Mar-2004 10:08 GMT | In reply to Comment 173 (samface):
Well, Samface, you are entitled to your opinion, but as I said, neither of us is a legal expert, nor is anyone else who's contributing to this discussion. So what is the point of your saying what Genesi and Hyperion can or cannot do? I take your words as I do everyone's words who is chiming in with uninformed legal advice: it may be fun to play legal advocate on line, but only the opinion of the real judge matters.
-- gary_c |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 175 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 10:38 GMT | In reply to Comment 174 (gary_c):
You don't need to be a lawyer to figure out wether a U.S. court ruling is world dominant or not. It's a fact that no US citizen nor company can enforce a U.S. court ruling upon any non-US citizen nor company. Genesi will have to face Hyperion directly in a Belgium/EU court in order to enforce their so-called rights for AmigaOS4. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 176 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by brotheris on 06-Mar-2004 10:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 175 (samface):
It might become HyperionOS4. This will confuse hell out of 'name followers' ;-) |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 177 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 10:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 174 (gary_c):
>So what is the point of your saying what Genesi and Hyperion can or cannot do?
Prevent people from believing in certain claims from certain Genesi officials. Their claims goes way beyond what the courts has ruled on at this point as well as to what extent such court ruling would be enforcable if it would actually come to pass. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 178 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 11:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 176 (brotheris):
Still not without:
a) Hyperion recognizing Genesi's rights to the brand on their own initiative (not very likely, IMO).
b) Genesi taking legal action against Hyperion. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 179 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by brotheris on 06-Mar-2004 11:28 GMT | In reply to Comment 178 (samface):
Would Hyperion do something illegal if court decides that they may not use the name ? That will be the day when hyperion and genesi will sign a contract =]]
Yes, I know nothing. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 180 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 11:54 GMT | In reply to Comment 179 (brotheris):
>Would Hyperion do something illegal if court decides that they may not use the
>name ?
The U.S. court cannot make ANY judgement regarding Hyperion and their rights since this court case is only about this contract between Amiga Inc. and Thendic-France/Genesi. Even if the court would agree with Genesi that AmigaOS4 an "update" to the AmigaDE, it would still be a judgement that can only be enforced upon Amiga Inc., not Hyperion. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 181 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 12:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 180 (samface):
Let me make an example;
Let's say my neighbour would sue me for running over his dog with my car and the court finds me guilty as charged. The court rules that as a penalty, I have to give my car to my neighbour. Would such ruling still be enforcable if it turns out that it was not my car and that I had borrowed it from a foreign friend who has already reclaimed the car and taken it back to his country? |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 182 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 12:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 170 (J. Pillow):
>Apparently, you have NO idea about law whatsoever. I hereby suggest you do at
>least SOME research before you make your next comment. This is really getting
>annoying.
Why don't you calm down and explain what it is that I'm missing here instead. I mean, you obviously know enough to make the judgement that I'm making erranous conclusions, all you got to do is motivate. If you can't do that, then how could you possibly make the judgement wether I'm right or wrong to begin with? |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 183 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by brotheris on 06-Mar-2004 12:34 GMT | In reply to Comment 180 (samface):
The U.S. court cannot make ANY judgement regarding Hyperion and their rights
Think different (I've heared that somewhere ;-)
Imagine (it is theory, I'm not a laywer, just babbler in this situation) that Hyperion/Amiga Inc contract will be ruled void by judge, because it conflicts with older Thendic Electronics/Amiga Inc contract. Hyperion owns their work, but can't use it to create AmigaOS4. Maybe none will stop them from creating their OS compatible with OS3 (like OS4 is now) and name it HyperionOS. Can you catch my thought ? Ofcourse there would rise other problems, but what 'name followers' would do if this situation becomes reality ? I'm sure few heads would explode ;-] |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 184 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Atheist2 on 06-Mar-2004 12:39 GMT | bill buck,
This tactic could jeopardize your having won the case already.
When the Judge realizes that you used the court to "pull the rug out from under" Amiga Inc. and take (steal, in reality) IP from TWO companies, YOU may end up in the slammer.
But, on the other hand, I enjoy watching your total desperation in these last few months before you go bankrupt (financially, that is, you've achieved the other ones already).
BTW, in the still undecided consumer's eye, THEY Judge YOU.
THEIR vote counts, we'll see what happens.
AmigaOne! AOS4.0! bill buck, you're playing your last card, but you're at the wrong table! |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 185 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by brotheris on 06-Mar-2004 12:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 184 (Atheist2):
This drama becomes better and better. It is so funny, that it makes my stomach hurt. I have a question for you: Will you make a suicide if BBRV will touch Amiga name/product/whatever with their dirty, sleezy, evil hands and pass some dissease to those honest bussinesmen at Amiga Inc and make then not send out precious T-Shirts (sorry to mention those) ? If you'll do it, make it public and post photos to THE Amiga comunity site. You will be a hero!!!!111!! |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 186 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Atheist2 on 06-Mar-2004 13:05 GMT | bbrv, where forth art thou????
We're ALL talking about you. This IS what you want, right?
This is your big moment to be the Amigan Idol you so crave to be.
So come and say something, anything, even a poem.
Doesn't it mean anything that you've humiliated yourself?
Well, I guess it doesn't, if you actually win.
But I have made statements as to why you won't, and others have also.
If you keep silent, I'll be just like you, and assume many things said about you are true.
Please take center stage, you have my undevided attention. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 187 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by gary_c on 06-Mar-2004 13:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 177 (samface):
>So what is the point of your saying what Genesi and Hyperion can or cannot do?
Prevent people from believing in certain claims from certain Genesi officials.
No offense, but what makes your claims any more credible than Genesi's? "People" aren't any more likely to believe you than they are Genesi. You can have your common sense opinion, but you aren't an expert in international or corporate law. Only the judge (or judges, if there are other jurisdictions involved) will make the final determinations in this case. So you're just whistling in the wind, IMHO.
-- gary_c |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 188 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 13:20 GMT | In reply to Comment 183 (brotheris):
The court cannot nullify nor judge anything about a contract that they've never seen nor know what it says. Again, the issues we are talking about will have to be brought up in a seperate court case as this case is only about this contract between Amiga Inc. and Thendic-France, nothing else. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 189 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Atheist2 on 06-Mar-2004 13:25 GMT | In reply to Comment 185 (brotheris):
> This drama becomes better and better. It is so funny, that it makes my stomach
> hurt. I have a question for you: Will you make a suicide if BBRV will touch
> Amiga name/product/whatever with their dirty, sleezy, evil hands and pass some
> dissease to those honest bussinesmen at Amiga Inc and make then not send out
> precious T-Shirts (sorry to mention those) ? If you'll do it, make it public
> and post photos to THE Amiga comunity site. You will be a hero!!!!111!!
I like your post.
It's ironic that I've got such a religious fervor about this!
Maybe us holdouts are here because our egos won't let us leave?
I am desperately saving to buy an AmigaOne before bbrv gets his grubby hands on AOS4.0. But, OTOH, he can't, unless he climbs through the window of Hyperion Entertainment in the middle of the night. :-D
As for the suicide, I'm embarrassed to say, I'm not selfrighteous enough to do it, but it'd be neat being a hero.
AOS4.0! In good hands; and hearts! |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 190 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 13:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 187 (gary_c):
Unless Belgium would have a specific agreement of extradition with the U.S. saying otherwise, a U.S. court ruling against Hyperion is completely worthless. Furthermore, Genesi can only enforce any ruling, whatever it may be, on the defendant of the case only. A ruling on Genesi's favor would only give Genesi the rights to demand AmigaOS4 from Amiga Inc., not from Hyperion or anyone else for that matter. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 191 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by brotheris on 06-Mar-2004 13:38 GMT | In reply to Comment 188 (samface):
The court cannot nullify nor judge anything about a contract that they've never seen nor know what it says
If company A granted licence to B and after some time A granted exclusive licence to C. B didn't like it and sued A. B won. Do you still think C will have exclusive licence ? C will have to sue A (not B) for damages. A is in shit. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 192 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by brotheris on 06-Mar-2004 13:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 189 (Atheist2):
It's ironic that I've got such a religious fervor about this!
Yes, it is ironic that atheist is such a religious creature. It is double irony.
I hope you understood that suicide part was just a joke. I don't wish you death, I wish you some brains. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 193 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Atheist2 on 06-Mar-2004 13:52 GMT | bill buck,
Hiding and dodging us does NOT make you look good right now.
Talk to us. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 194 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 13:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 187 (gary_c):
>No offense, but what makes your claims any more credible than Genesi's?
Facts. I have the court documents from this case and it's clear that Genesi's claims go far beyond what the court has ruled on at this point. I'm not speculating here, on the contrary, I'm pointing at what we know as a matter of fact. Everything else is speculation until a court says otherwise.
I would also not classify the fact that a U.S. court cannot enforce their laws onto other countries than the U.S. as speculation, even if I'm not a lawyer. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 195 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by gary_c on 06-Mar-2004 14:18 GMT | In reply to Comment 194 (samface):
Everyone has access to the same "facts". The problem is how to interpret the "facts". That is where legal expertise comes into play, and you don't have any, so I to find the answer I might as well ask my dog to bark once for Genesi's triumph and twice for yours.
-- gary_c |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 196 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 14:25 GMT | In reply to Comment 191 (brotheris):
Here's a better metaphor:
A makes an offer to sell a car to B who decides to buy it. A does not deliver as agreed but sells the car to C instead. A delivers the car to C while B files a lawsuit against A for not delivering as promised. B wins and the court gives B the rights for the car. However, C has the car and lives in another country as both A and B. B is forced to prove their case to the foreign court of where C lives since the court ruling from B's country, in contrary too what some people seem to believe, is not world dominant. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 197 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by gary_c on 06-Mar-2004 14:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 196 (samface):
"Bark."
-- gary_c |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 198 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 14:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 195 (gary_c):
Are you really that ignorant or are you just pretending? THERE IS NO MENTION OF AMIGAOS4 WHAT SO EVER IN THE CURRENT COURT RULING, yet Genesi is openly and in public claiming the rights for it. Genesi has merely asked for a modification of the court ruling AND IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF THE COURT WILL COMPLY WITH THE PLAINTIFFS REQUEST.
And then, even if they get a favorable verdict, they still need to take legal action against Hyperion in order to enforce those rights to Hyperion's product.
These facts cannot be misinterpreted; Genesi is obviously making claims that is going FAR beyond what the courts has ruled on at this point. |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 199 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by vortexau on 06-Mar-2004 14:39 GMT | In reply to Comment 160 (hooligan/dcs):
> Come on.. don't play games here. I make good money and even I keep A1 quite
> expensive. Let alone people who aren't working, or working with less salary.
True enough! I cashed in some shares, and saved hard for over a year . . .
When someone WANTS something, really WANTS something - - - they put in the effort!
But the A4000 was $2000AU more than an A1-XEG4 system . . . pity that the A4000/030 was announced later, than the A1200HD was, in Oz! |
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| Thendic-Amiga Court Case - Latest Motions : Comment 200 of 216 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 14:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 197 (gary_c):
By your reasoning, your name could as well be "Bark" since you are not a lawyer and what you think is your name is only your interpretation. |
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