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[News] AmigaOne no on-board sound?ANN.lu
Posted on 06-Mar-2004 01:38 GMT by lawd135 comments
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Commenting a recent news item on amiga-news.de, Davy Wentzler of OS4 fame said the on-board sound of the AmigaOne does not work, furthermore explaining the chip is physically not present on AmigaOnes produced the last 9 months. Frank Gutschow said on 05-Mär-2004, 23:38: "Meines erachtens sollte definitiv wirklich ersteinmal der Onboard-Chip des AmigaOne unterstützt werden."

Davy Wentzler answered on 05-Mär-2004, 23:45: "I'm gonna say it once more: it doesn't work. There's even a big chance, the chip is not physically present anymore on boards manufactured in the past 9 months."

Will Eyetech exchange all defect and component missing AmigaOnes or will they refund users that received broken hardware?

AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 1 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 06-Mar-2004 00:41 GMT
It's not broken hardware. It's just missing. Big deal.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 2 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by lawd on 06-Mar-2004 00:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (hooligan/dcs):
Read again, idiot, that's not what Davy wrote.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 3 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 06-Mar-2004 00:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (lawd):
sod off, it's old news. nobody cares!
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 4 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by lawd on 06-Mar-2004 00:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (hooligan/dcs):
check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/message/29713
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 5 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 06-Mar-2004 00:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (lawd):
Seems this issue was discussed the second week of february at finnish forums. Starting 10th of feb to be exact.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 6 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by SLayeRDK on 06-Mar-2004 03:02 GMT
Was there supposed to be onboard sound at all?
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 7 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Mar-2004 03:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (lawd):
Looks like you're the ijut
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 8 of 135ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 4 (lawd):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Trolling
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 9 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 06:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
You forgot 10:

Troll about it in every Amiga forum on every chance you get. If someone complains about it beeing repeated over and over like a bad mantra, repeat it again. If you bump into important issues IRL, ignore them and troll some more. Who needs a life, anyway?
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 10 of 135ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 9 (samface):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Trolling
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 11 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Mar-2004 07:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Eva):
And you really have a hard time spelling! - which I think is much worse..
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 12 of 135ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 10 (Eva):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Follow up to trolling
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 13 of 135ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Trolling
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 14 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 06-Mar-2004 08:10 GMT
Hmmmm.....I see we are at it again! The immaturity of some people is really beginning to amaze me.

I think that it's rather silly of people with a Pegasos 1&2 to comment on non functioning hardware when they have the same problems. Not even to mention the instability of MorhpOS that continues to pop up.

I'm still glad I have A1 and when OS 4 works on the MicroA1, I will get that too. And the more people pound on the A1 and AOS4 the more I want it.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 15 of 135ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 13 (lawd):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Follow up to trolling
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 16 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Mar-2004 08:58 GMT
Must be full moon again....

Cheers
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 17 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Mar-2004 09:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Amon_Re):
Nope, not full moon, looks like a reaction to the newspost below, anyways, nothing new here

Cheers
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 18 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 06-Mar-2004 09:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Remco Komduur):
>I think that it's rather silly of people with a Pegasos 1&2 to comment on non functioning hardware
> when they have the same problems.

No missing AC97 on my board (or anyone elses I know). Sound problems due to bus locking problem of Articia crapola...

> Not even to mention the instability of MorhpOS that continues to pop up.

???? More stable thab the last betas of OS4 shown. Amiga OS (and therefore it's successors) are unstable by design...

>I'm still glad I have A1 and when OS 4 works on the MicroA1, I will get that too. And the more people
> pound on the A1 and AOS4 the more I want it.

That's either masochism at best or pure stupidity at worst...

Steve
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 19 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 06-Mar-2004 09:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Amon_Re):
Well...it was new news to me but admit I don't have time to follow all the newsgroups. So, what are people using in their A1's for sound, Soundblaster?

Steve
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 20 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Davy Wentzler on 06-Mar-2004 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (JKD):
We have over 40 supported sound cards and more coming up, so it isn't that big of an issue. You can buy a real cheap Sweex CMI8738 card for about 12 euro that will perform better than AC97. I know on-board sound would have been nice so people wouldn't have to buy anything extra, but you can't go on spending $$$ on R&D for a 1 euro chip forever. VIA didn't come forward with enough docs.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 21 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by IanS on 06-Mar-2004 10:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (JKD):
>>Sound problems due to bus locking problem of Articia crapola...

Really?! That's not what I heard.

Articia was only a very small part of the problem... but I guess you knew that right?

Ian
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 22 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Smith on 06-Mar-2004 10:31 GMT
I don't see this as an issue as I never use on-board sound (or graphics for that matter) on PCs. Besides - I think this 'news' item has been mentioned many months ago already anyway.

I cannot see how not having on-board sound is not going to affect sales of the AOne/OS4.

---
Sam
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 23 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Mar-2004 10:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (samface):
Eyetech is purpously pushing faulty boards at exorbitant prices to
clueless people who will gladly buy anything as long as it has an
amiga sticker on it. Enlightening people about this is a GOOD thing,
it's protecting consumers, or at least giving them a chance to make
their purchasing decisions knowing all the facts (instead of
selectively hiding them). It is certainly NOT trolling. It's not the
information that is the crook here, it's the people (like you) who
tries to stop the information by rejecting it as trolling.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 24 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 06-Mar-2004 10:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (JKD):
Yes, yes, yes ... your opinion means diddly squad to me.

You can say all you want but you people have been at it for more than a year now pounding at the A1 and at AmigaOS 4 trying to discredit everything you see and enforcing you're opinion onto the rest of us.

The point of the matter remains. There is just as much wrong with the Peg1, Peg2 and MorphOS and you know it. So commenting on the problems of other hardware and OS is really pointless.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 25 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 06-Mar-2004 11:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (JKD):
"> Not even to mention the instability of MorhpOS that continues to pop up.

???? More stable thab the last betas of OS4 shown. Amiga OS (and therefore it's successors) are unstable by design..."

Coded in C, you mean?
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 26 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 06-Mar-2004 11:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Davy Wentzler):
But you lose one PCI slot for sound card.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 27 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 06-Mar-2004 11:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
By the way I wonder what is this so called "quality control" in the Eyetech Labs. First they run stress tests for A1/Linux and assure DMA is highly reliable in Linux. Then is this AC97 bug - Eyetech never checked if the designed hardware was working at all. But because Alan Redhouse is an Amiga God I must be an infidel.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 28 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Mar-2004 11:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (itix):
I would use soundcard instead of any integrated soundchip anyway.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 29 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 06-Mar-2004 12:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Don Cox):
No. AmigaOS API is broken by design. Or as RJ Mical would say, "not properly done". It always was this way and will always be.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 30 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 06-Mar-2004 12:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
For me (Pegasos) AC97 is good enough. Definitely better than old 8bit Paula, but not as good as the best sound cards.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 31 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Smith on 06-Mar-2004 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (itix):
I'd rather use the PCI slot and have cool sound. Just make sure you buy a machine with enough slots for what you want to do. PCI slots are there for using - not saving!

---
Sam
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 32 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 06-Mar-2004 12:06 GMT
a) Yes AC97 isn't the best there is, but neither are soundblasters (IMO there are even worse).

b) Wasn't it Alan himself who claimed that the A1 had no bugs/probs due to the close contact they had with MAI, who themselves were sooooo thick with VIA ?

c) Wasn't AC97-sound one of the few arguments, used to claim that the A1-XE wouldn't be a TeronPX ? *eg*

d) Is this a design-error in the Ter^H^H^HAmigaOne-layout ? Or is it an SW-issue all along ?

e) And where does it leave the MikroA1, which utilizeses the same chips ? Useing a PCI-card for something basic like sound, doesn't really look good for such a design .
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 33 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Smith on 06-Mar-2004 12:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (itix):
I must have been halucinating for the past 16 years then as it doesn't seem very broken to me. :)

If AmigaOS is 'broken' then I badly need a new 'broken' OS.

---
Sam
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 34 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 06-Mar-2004 12:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Sam Smith):
In this market you dont have many choices. All solutions available have 3 PCI slots (A1 XE has 4, but 4th is shared with AGP). But you are probably right - PCI slots are there for using not saving.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 35 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Mar-2004 12:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Don Cox):
And how else would you code an Amiga-like OS? Java? :-D

Besides, the language used has very little to do with the instability of the system... The system is instable because apps do wrong things AND the system lacks memory protection.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 36 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 06-Mar-2004 12:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Fabio Alemagna):
"And how else would you code an Amiga-like OS? Java? :-D"

I would use C for the lowest level components only. Parts such as the Prefs programs should be written in a high level language, IMO.


"Besides, the language used has very little to do with the instability of the system... The system is instable because apps do wrong things AND the system lacks memory protection."

IMO "broken by design" is an over-dramatic way to say "it doesn't have memory protection." As it has no memory protection, the application programs should be coded very carefully and tested very thoroughly. There are in practice plenty of stable Amiga programs which do not crash, and others such as Photogenics or Voyager which do.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 37 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 06-Mar-2004 12:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (itix):
"In this market you dont have many choices. All solutions available have 3 PCI slots (A1 XE has 4, but 4th is shared with AGP). But you are probably right - PCI slots are there for using not saving."

This is one way in which the AmigaOne is inferior to the A2000 and even the A4000 (which has 4 independent slots and a video slot).

I'm not talking about speed, just the number of cards you can add. Three is not enough, IMO, unless you are making a "toy" computer like the A1200 which is designed for only very limited expansion.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 38 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 06-Mar-2004 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Anonymous):
Or, you're purpously slandering off at a prerelease (aka Earlybird) of a product which never was targetted at ordinary end-users that expects a ready to go system. I mean, this was clearly explained on Eyetech's website at the time of when these systems where available, noone is trying to fool anyone here.

bPlan also made a prerelease of their hardware (and OS) which they called the "Betatester" and they also made several revisions of their boards as flaws in the design became appearant. Would you say that the Betatester was intended to swindle the customers too?
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 39 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 06-Mar-2004 13:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Davy Wentzler):
>> You can buy a real cheap Sweex CMI8738 card for about 12 euro that will perform better than AC97.


ya if someone spends 800 on a motherboard, they can just keep on spending...

if someone would never waste 800, then they aren't going to be wasting 812 either.

all works out well. good luck.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 40 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Mar-2004 13:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Don Cox):
> "And how else would you code an Amiga-like OS? Java? :-D"

> I would use C for the lowest level components only. Parts such as the Prefs
> programs should be written in a high level language, IMO.

Although I agree that a decent operating system should provide enough high level building block to allow for writing entire applications by even using an interpreted language, that wouldn't solve any particular problem regarding the instability of the system: the OS would still have certain semantics that allow any apps, even written in the most secure language, to crash the entire OS.

> "Besides, the language used has very little to do with the instability of the
> system... The system is instable because apps do wrong things AND the system
> lacks memory protection."

> IMO "broken by design" is an over-dramatic way to say "it doesn't have memory
> protection."

No, it's not. There's a big difference between a system that has no memory protection and a system which _works on the assumption_ that there's no memory protection.

Take Windows, for instance: it was born on systems which lacked MMU, hence it was without memory protection. Nowadays, you can't certainly say windows lacks memory protection, yet old application run seamlessy and seamlessy integrated with the other applications, witnessing that the system's API was, in fact, not "broken" (stability-wise) (ok, perhaps not *entirely* broken, given some old apps DO cause problems) yet it did not have MP.

AmigaOS' API is, instead, really broken in that it _assumes_ that pointers can be passed around and lets common application access vital parts of the system, giving them the chance and ability to crash the whole system by simply writing wrong values at the right place.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 41 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 06-Mar-2004 13:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Kronos):
e:

No it doesn't.

http://www.mrhardwarecomputers.com/pics/ma1via.jpg
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 42 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Jack Me on 06-Mar-2004 14:02 GMT
It really amazes me the way people have now started slagging of Amiga OS even though they've probably stuck by the Amiga all these years. Suddenly it's all "AmigaOS API is broken by design" and "The system is instable because apps do wrong things AND the system lacks memory protection.".

If it's so crap why have you all stayed in the Amiga community for so long?
*Though how someone who doesn't have an Amiga and instead uses MorphOS can be part of the Amiga community I don't know.

If it's such a load of sh*t then p*ss off and form your own communities.

* My opinion and you can't change it so don't even try.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 43 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 06-Mar-2004 14:02 GMT
There's a big lesson to be learned here.

What is it? CUSTOM CHIPSET motherboards ROCK!!!!!

We need Amiga CUSTOM HW!!!!!


AmigaTWO! The MOTHER of all MOTHERBOARDS!!!!!
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 44 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 06-Mar-2004 14:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Don Cox):
No memory protection, allowing applications to take down the system.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 45 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 06-Mar-2004 14:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (samface):
Hahaha, how long is this earlybird thing supposed to continue? When can the AmigaONE be declared non-earlybird, it's been selling for over 2 years, collecting dust on many peoples shelves for just as long.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 46 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 06-Mar-2004 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Jack Me):
Because MorphOS is authored/developed by long time Amiga Developers, who have a good idea of what made the AmigaOS experience fun, and that's the main goal of MorphOS to bring joy into using a computer system again, not just as a silly tool.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 47 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 06-Mar-2004 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Jack Me):
"It really amazes..." You didn't notice that MorphOS (the abox module) is sharing limitations of AmigaOS? What ever, AmigaOS is neat and fast but surely not the best possible. If I thought AmigaOS is utter crap I would not use MorphOS at all. "*Though how someone who doesn't have an Amiga and instead uses MorphOS can be part of the Amiga community I don't know." AmigaOS 4 and AmigaOne users are welcome to Amiga.org/ANN.lu too ;-)
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 48 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 06-Mar-2004 14:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Remco Komduur):
>Hmmmm.....I see we are at it again! The immaturity of some people is really beginning to amaze me.
Me too.

>I think that it's rather silly of people with a Pegasos 1&2 to comment on non functioning hardware >when they have the same problems.
>Not even to mention the instability of MorhpOS that continues to pop up.

No, they don't. On board sound is present AND working since Pegasos2.
Have you notice that Amigaone owners do the exact same thing ? For example your attack on MorpHOS stability is very laughable. (Don't whine when someone will report some OS4 crashes and trolls will pop up to make fun of you ...)
You may have not noticed but you are participating to the immaturity you are criticizing.
BTW, MorphOS is more stable than AmigaOS OS3.X.
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 49 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Richard Drummond on 06-Mar-2004 15:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Don Cox):
Hi Don

> This is one way in which the AmigaOne is inferior to the A2000 and even the
> A4000 (which has 4 independent slots and a video slot).

I would disagree. The A2000/4000 may have had more slots, yes, but the A1 has on-board Ethernet and USB - much more useful than an extra slot, IMHO.

Cheers,
Rich
AmigaOne no on-board sound? : Comment 50 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 06-Mar-2004 15:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Christophe Decanini):
I think you missed the whole POINT of my post.

Why complain about the others hardware whilst your own isn't problem free. And that goes for both OS'es too.

So let's just quit with these endless discussions and people PRETENDING to be shocked when something doesn't work.
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