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[News] OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story)ANN.lu
Posted on 26-Mar-2004 06:10 GMT by Dale Rahn125 comments
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OpenBSD/pegasos gone. From what originally sounded like promising Open Source support, the relationship between Genesi and Dale Rahn has turned quite sour. OpenBSD/pegasos gone.

From what originally sounded like promising Open Source support, the relationship between Genesi and Dale Rahn has turned quite sour.

I was initially contacted in Oct 2002 regarding porting OpenBSD to the Pegasos I system. After some months, they contracted me to port and support OpenBSD on the Pegasos I for a small amount of money and 5 boards for the use of myself and other OpenBSD developers. Due to the production/hardware problems in the Pegasos I boards, I ended up receiving one board. After the port was up and running with snapshots and source changes available, it became clear that those systems were not to ship in quantity, and the effort was stopped.

I was then contacted early in October 2003 asking me to update the port for the 3.4 release. Because the funding for the DARPA Grant which had been paying me was running out, I updated the code, made several improvements and had it ready for a simultaneous release with the official OpenBSD release.

I was hired on Oct 27 2003 as a non-benefits employee. Genesi wanted me to port and support OpenBSD on the Pegasos II system. When I was hired, I tried to impress on Bill Buck (who hired me over the phone) that documentation was required to write the software and support a commercial offering based on the Pegasos boards. I was reassured that documentation would not be a problem.

Genesi was in talks with ShopIP regarding shipping Pegasos based firewall boxes running ShopIP's crunchbox software. They were chasing the high revenue opportunity. Because of my status in OpenBSD and the fact that Genesi was (to be) paying me a salary I worked on finishing the Pegasos port and getting it into the OpenBSD tree.

Things appeared to be going well, however a minor delay was announced with our Dec 1 paychecks. They were to be delayed until about Dec 10 due to 'stock market issues'. I was flown out to New York City to help with the presentation of the 'Guardian', the Pegasos Crunchbox at the InfoSec conference. When at the conference some unusual negotiation was occurring between ShopIP and Genesi, there were some questions raised as to who the 'IP' of ShopIP belonged as apparently the developer had not been paid for nearly 2 years. This apparently came out about the time that Genesi and ShopIP were negotiating how the guardian was to be configured and the proceeds distributed.

As the conference ended, the delayed payday arrived. Several of the other 'employees' of Genesi were quite anxious to receive their checks and a plan was made to FedEx the checks from the conference. Since I was at the conference with Paul, I was written a check (for Oct and Nov) and handed it.

Later I find out that the other checks which were to be FedEx'ed were never sent. The check which I was handed (for $10,000) turned out to be dated 12/11/01 (two years previous), the bank refused to honor the check and did not even attempt to cash it. (Much later I find out that the account did not have the money present, even if the check had gone thru the bank).

After living thru a very uncomfortable Christmas, my smallest and most miserable in my life because I had not seen any money from Genesi, I finally blew up shortly after the new year and told them I was ready to walk. Part of me was still hoping to get the 15,000 they owed me at that point, or I would have walked then. This resulted in them paying me for one month of work ('we have no money left') to keep me around.

The Pegasos II which had just shipped and was still sitting unopened on the floor might have also influenced that money. So, I was mollified and the OpenBSD port was started. Unfortunately, because of non-standard PCI probing methods in the new northbridge, porting the software took longer than expected.

After some workarounds from hints from thrice forwarded emails, I was able to configure the system and get it running. It would have been quite straightforward to have written this properly if they had provided the documentation as they had planned. I pointed this out and stated that to write the gigabit ethernet which was to be used in the Guardian product, it would need that documentation otherwise a performant correct driver could not be written. bPlan and the Linux developer Sven (who by that time was unemployed due to Thendic-France closing) had the documentation. I, however, as a Genesi employee was not allowed to obtain the documentation.

Finally, (to shut me up I think), I was sent the linux driver for the onboard gigabit. I had previously told them that having a linux driver as reference would be nice but could not replace documentation, as most linux drivers do not lend themselves to being comprehended in such a way that the hardware is understandable and that a driver for OpenBSD could be written. That and the fact I found they were not configuring the gig-E interrupt correctly, but were tying it to the generic IRQ9 so that it gets serviced occasionally, was quite amusing.

I continued attempting to improve the port for some time, meanwhile working on OpenBSD/cats, however little progress was made on Pegasos.

It was announced that a new Pegasos II board run would occur and hints appeared on the developer chat areas that new firmware enhancements were to appear. Wanting OpenBSD to be able to support the new features (reset!) of this firmware, I attempted to obtain a copy. After about a week of begging on the chat sessions, I was able to locate someone who had a copy of the early firmware and obtain a copy. The normal source, the developer and the other bPlan representatives ignored all requests.

When I tested this new firmware on my machine, I panicked. OpenBSD would not boot. It would load the kernel and hang. I IMMEDIATELY contacted the Genesi and bPlan people claiming that this firmware had problems and that these problems needed to be resolved before the hardware was released. I offered my time to help locate the change which caused the problem, whether it was an error in the new firmware or modified assumptions that both the firmware and the OpenBSD kernel make. I received exactly one response stating some things had changed, however the reply was not specific enough to use to start debugging the issue. All other attempts at contact were ignored. About 1.5 weeks later the new boards were released and according to information by one of the users, released with firmware made the day I contacted them (which was newer that what I tested). No further communication was received after _many_ attempts were made.

After over a week of this, the announcement that (again?) there would be no payments made (was the end of the month again) and that the health benefits which they had been promising for the last 3 months would be delayed at least another month, I resigned (the date, March 1st). It was quite clear that Bill Buck who was supposed to be CEO of Genesi and 'in charge' had no power over bPlan. bPlan didn't care at all about OpenBSD or the overall quality of the board in the embedded market. I received a simple reply that was an acceptance of my resignation, and a statement that "We will make every effort to pay you for the services you have provided over the past several months".

At the point I left Genesi, I did not threaten or put any conditions on OpenBSD/pegasos. I continued asking Genesi/bPlan for fixed firmware or comments on what changed. No response ever came.

Finally I sent them a note stating that it was too late for any changes to go into the OpenBSD release (which is at the end of the 3.5 release cycle) and that we would not be able to release OpenBSD/pegasos based on the support provided and that it would be removed from the tree after 3.5. This finally provoked a response: Since "you were not able to work on Genesi related projects after February 4th" any "consulting fees" would not paid past that date. In addition, I was to be billed for the two boards which were sent to Theo de Raadt.

This is how I was treated in the employ of Genesi, I hope that no others will be hurt by this company's empty promises or as a result of using their shoddy products.

So here I am after having worked for Genesi for 4.5 months, paid for almost _5_weeks_, and searching for a job. Sigh.

OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 1 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 26-Mar-2004 05:27 GMT
Well, this nicely illustrates most of the problems in Genesi management and communication . . . and their consequences. As somebody peripherally involved (via the Phoenix Developer Consortium), I want to apologize to Dale, for what it's worth. I really hope Genesi can get its act together.

-- gary_c
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 2 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by red troll on 26-Mar-2004 06:12 GMT
Let me go into Red Troll mode- What's worse.. To constantly suck at delivering a product (Amiga Inc) or to start out like a rocket then have everything come crashing down - HARD- (genisis)??
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 3 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 26-Mar-2004 06:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (gary_c):
Indeed - regarding the quote "they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory", Genesi is a true successor of Commodore-Amiga. The Amiga curse seems to go on. One could hit the roof seeing how AVOIDABLE Genesi's decline would have been if the people in charge would have had at least very basic skills in communication and sincerity. If the Pegasos would fail in the market because it would be an inferior product - ok. But going down because of such stuff...? Argh!
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 4 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 26-Mar-2004 06:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Senex):
Really, can this be salvaged? Do the people in charge realize what the problems are and can they fix them? We don't need grand plans or visions; we just need to see basic nuts-and-bolts repairs in communication and a *sincere* effort to deal with people honestly and with complete integrity. Lacking that, this company and its products are doomed.

-- gary_c
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 5 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Mr. Anonymous on 26-Mar-2004 06:35 GMT
You should join the rest of the Genesi "employees" in court. Buck wanted to be the big dog in the Amiga Market. Guess he got his wish. Genesi is looking more and more like Amiga, Inc. Bill Buck is looking more and more like Bill McEwen. Wonder where he's hiding out these days.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 6 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 26-Mar-2004 06:37 GMT
Time to buy an AmigaOne and do some native AOS4.0 coding!!!


AmigaOne! AOS4.0! In the future, and the future is near!
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 7 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 26-Mar-2004 06:39 GMT
That's a pretty daming story of poor developer relations and yet another instance of not getting paid....sigh!

Steve
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 8 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Leo on 26-Mar-2004 06:52 GMT
"It was quite clear that Bill Buck who was supposed to be CEO of Genesi and 'in charge' had no power over bPlan. bPlan didn't care at all about OpenBSD or the overall quality of the board in the embedded market."
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 9 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 26-Mar-2004 06:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Leo):
> bPlan didn't care at all about OpenBSD or the overall quality
> of the board in the embedded market.

Indeed the most shocking and disillusioning part of his story... :-(
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 10 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Mar-2004 07:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Senex):
This is no amiga curse, unless you call "arrogant and incompetent management" the curse.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 11 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by oGALAXYo on 26-Mar-2004 07:12 GMT
I don't think this is a GENESI problem or a Bill Buck problem after all. So I don't want to judge about this. But please allow me to make a general comment which is not depending on this Article here.

;----

This is a general problem I have met in the special Amiga community. The lack of teamwork, cooperation, communication is a big problem. While I do believe that many people do want the best for this community such as getting forward with the Amiga philosophy I on the otherhand see that a bunch of people are still stuck in old times.

I do know GENESI and specially bbrv as people who kept their word and I do see them as creditable persons (at least speaking for my own situation now). I do believe that their intentions were and still are good ones for this community. Getting forward with new fresh projects, getting people involved, expanding the community and getting people on one table doing work.

But you can not blame them for the documentation and specification stuff. Of course as developer you need to know how the hardware and the software works to continue developing stuff and it can only be of interest for a company such as GENESI and bPlan to provide these informations. The same I say about MorphOS which is still a book with 7 symbols to me. Porting normal applications is one thing but getting to know the System requires that people make them public. While MorphOS behaves like AmigaOS it is still differently internally.

But for such reasons GENESI created the mdc.morphos.net and other mdc's pages where people should met and exchange their knowledge about the architecture and help each other. Watching this wrom the GENESI perspective this all looks logical to me. They want to create a unified location where people met.

Unfortunately this doesn't really work for the Open Source and Free Software world such as OpenBSD for example, these people are used to a different philosophy like going out to google for information and voila they get them. Sure to provide informations about Systems and interfaces means that you need to provide specifications as well.

I saw quite a few people asking in the morphos IRC channel how to access some special supervisor registers and the reply was "this is something you don't need to know" and this doesn't work.

Although this is STILL not the problem of GENESI imo since I believe that they believe that this kind of communication is happening already.

I assume (please note 'ASSUME') that people are still stuck in their old times. Doing their little code on their own. Don't let others participate to it since they could steal ideas or simply to demonstrate how preeminence they are.

This is also a reason why many people prefer Open Source stuff these days rather than Closed Source things since people have understood and share a common philosophy - which is not necessarily Linux related. I also believe GENESI plans were similar like this. That's why I got a couple of emails from bbrv related to O.P.A and some Linux projects. They are visionary, they look forward. Something you can't expect from everybody.

BBRV have promised the free boards and people received them. These people are happy and do some work on Pegasos and try doing what they can and how their time looks like. Some people on the otherhand had these issues with salery. Sure the problem with getting paid is always something where the fun stops as soon as salery is left out. No doubt. But we should also not forget the problems that GENESI had run in the past months. While a lot of people making funny sick jokes about GENESI passing away I for my own see it differently. Even if the times are hard for them you at the other hand can't blame them. ArticiaS problems, Pretory, significant delays and so on and also the badmouthing people found on ANN and elsewhere who have nothing better to do than carry even more dirt around.

The things around Linux doesn't look better than on OpenBSD for example. There are a lot of drivers (Such as the Tekram DC395x driver that I and some others are working (porting) on for Linux 2.6.x) is also an example of missing documentation. We only got the specifications of the TMS-1040 chip and the old DC310 driver and glued them together somehow (at least that's how Kurt Garloff initially created it).

I think that the overall Amiga community here should get a bit more open for changes and that we at all learn to support eachother more. We also see it with open source projects. Where people thankfully take the stuff written by others. Where they port it to either AmigaOS4 or MorphOS but then keep the changes secret or simply tell people that they are burried somewhere or lost only because they don't want to give back to the community. Or where people silently work on their own without letting others participate to the Open Source stuff (There was a readme on AmigaWorld or Amiga.org - Can't remember anymore where D-Dan had a similar issue (was it him)). Such things can not be tolerated any longer.

If we want that our plattform should become successful then we should do something to achieve this. When we work or adopt Open Source stuff then we should make sure that we contribute back to the Maintrunk or make the changes public so we can adopt it and change it for our own needs (A wink to Hyperion here with ScummVM or Quake2). A lot of people are still caught in a time that has been passed 10 years ago.

greetings,

oGALAXYo
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 12 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 26-Mar-2004 07:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Atheist2):
Time to buy an AmigaOne and do some native AOS4.0 coding!!!
AmigaOne! AOS4.0! In the future, and the future is near!
__________

A part the stupidity of you Atheist that don't remember that you supported and support a stoler like BillyBoy Mcewan (and that you are repeating from 2001 ... the future is near), it's better to talk about the problem with Dale.
I have to completly repeat what I said in the past ... Pegasos+MOs is a wonderfull combo (and the use of Linux, OpneBsd and so on a nice extra) ... but Genesi manner to distribute Pegasos, pay developers, release information and so on was and is unacceptable.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 13 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 26-Mar-2004 07:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (oGALAXYo):
Galaxy I could not say this better.
Completely agree.
Anyway I hope, really that those bad times pass away as soon as possible for both Mos and Aos4 developers.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 14 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 26-Mar-2004 07:23 GMT
IMO, all this (as all other sad things that has been reported) comes
down to one thing - the sudden lack of money due to the
Pretory/Thendic thing. Everything was running smoothly before
that. But without oil, the machinery runs jerky, slow and not in sync
with other machine parts. Some parts even stops working. Sad indeed,
and hopefully they will find a way into a pit-stop and refill fresh
oil for the machinery soon. Perhaps there will be a way of replacing
any broken parts of the machinery by then too, to get the machine
going again and running as smoothly as before ...
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 15 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Mar-2004 07:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Eva):
Genesi manner to distribute Pegasos, pay developers, release information and so on was and is unacceptable.

Wow, Eva's meds have finally worn off enough that she can see the truth behind Genesi.

I don't suppose you remember being lucid enough to remember all the times the rest of us told you that Buck was up to no good, and even after all the ppl who got ripped off of their salaries you still wouldn't believe.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 16 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 26-Mar-2004 07:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Senex):
Nah, I don't think this could be the "Amiga" curse (that would be
trademark infringement ;-)). But it has been cursed by Amiga people,
and perhaps the result is same? ;-)
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 17 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Mar-2004 07:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Eva):
Hehe, this is pretty damn funny.

All the blues, who just a few months ago were shouting that the amigaone, hyperion and eyetech must all die so that there can be only pegasos, are now getting all conciliatory and making olive trees into an endangered species.

Well, we don't want you. Go back to your pegasos and morphos. You'll only cause trouble again.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 18 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 26-Mar-2004 07:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Atheist2):
@ Atheist2

If you read the dates (year 2002) you will understand that the Articia
based machine was part of the problem. If things had not been delayed
because of that, then we could have a complete different situation
here now IMO. Then plans and things (and real products) could have
been completed much earlier, and with a real cash flow based on it's
own merits (the Pegasos based products), the effects of the Pretory
thing would perhaps not have felt as hard as this.

It's a pity that the exodus from Articia took so long time before it
was announced until it was tangible products for sale.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 19 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 26-Mar-2004 07:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Atheist2):
" AmigaOne! AOS4.0! In the future, and the future is near!"

Hope this is a self fulfilling prophecy. How long have you been repeating it? Some 3-4 years? Not to mention that it's pretty off topic, there is no OpenBSD support for the AmigaONE. To be honest, there is almost no operating system support for it, except for Linux which is, according to Eyetech/Hyperion/MAI has "buggy drivers". Wonder what'd be the reaction of OpenBSD developers to an unfixed ArticiaS based AmigaONE.

OpenBSD was a nice addition to the available Operating Systems on the Pegasos though. Hope one day the situation gets resolved and it will be available again.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 20 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Mar-2004 07:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (takemehomegrandma):
w00t!

I was wondering how long it would be before some smurf blamed the whole thing on the articia.

Seriously, Mai Logic was the best thing to happen to genesi and their fanboys. EVERYTHING that has ever gone wrong at genesi can be traced back to those demon chips!
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 21 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Jope on 26-Mar-2004 07:41 GMT
I'm disgusted.

No Pegasos 2 for me, keep your hardware. I can't support a company that treats it's employees like that.

Thank you, now I don't have to think about the future of the new PPC-"Amigas" at all.

I still have my Pegasos 1, but it's got Linux on it and hopefully soon it'll become a mere digital video recorder, sitting under my TV, recording shows for later viewing!

Someone please pass the popcorn, I'm ready to be entertained! What will happen next? Who will go bankrupt? Will innocent lives be ruined or lost? Stay tuned folks!
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 22 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 26-Mar-2004 07:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
That was one of the better comments from Eva, and you flame! :-/

(BTW, it looks like some of the spieces over at anotherworld.net has
found a way out - the leaders over there ought to mend the fence and
build it higher immediately to keep them in!)
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 23 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 26-Mar-2004 07:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (gary_c):
Gary_C ... Personally, I tend not to expect miracles. Same basic problems were there well over a year ago and I have seen no indication of things clearing up.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 24 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Mar-2004 07:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Jope):
Someone please pass the popcorn, I'm ready to be entertained! What will happen next? Who will go bankrupt? Will innocent lives be ruined or lost? Stay tuned folks!

OK, I enjoy a quick troll as much as the next guy (troll?), but I think that's taking things a bit far, don't you?
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 25 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Mar-2004 07:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (takemehomegrandma):
I have zero respect for eva, my post reflects that.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 26 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 26-Mar-2004 07:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
You make it look like I only speak about the problems with Articia,
when I only mentioned it in a reply. But the fact is, if an
Articia-free Pegasos would have been available when the Pegasos was
first released in 2002, a lot of things would have looked different.
Instead of a year in void, there would have been a year of designing
new products based on the Pegasos puzzle piece. And with a solid cash
flow from that, then the Pretory blow would not have felt as hard as
it did now.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 27 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 26-Mar-2004 07:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
LOl never read my oubblic discussion here on Genesi mediocre Peg distribution politics ? :D
Take a look.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 28 of 125ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
Message removed by Christian Kemp for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Personal insult
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 29 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald on 26-Mar-2004 07:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Atheist2):
Time to buy an AmigaOne and do some native AOS4.0 coding!!!


AmigaOne! AOS4.0! In the future, and the future is near!


Throw in a little more than 100$ US and you can get an Apple G5 64bit computer instead NOW! lol

;)
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 30 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 26-Mar-2004 07:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Jope):
@ Jope

IMO you could also make a difference between "deliberately treating
developers this way" and "because of reasons out of their control,
they have problems in fulfilling their promises". The result might
look the same, but the first is "evil", the second is "tough luck".

BTW, if you are going to use a TV card on your Pegasos, you might want
to use a non-Articia motherboard (Pegasos II).
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 31 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 26-Mar-2004 07:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous):
I have 0 respect for anonymous idiots without IT knowledge.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 32 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 26-Mar-2004 07:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (takemehomegrandma):
Hasn't there been IBM CPC710(-133) Northbridge for quite some time?It can even use quad-CPU under special circumstances. ;)
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 33 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by IanS on 26-Mar-2004 08:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (takemehomegrandma):
(BTW, it looks like some of the spieces over at anotherworld.net has
found a way out - the leaders over there ought to mend the fence and
build it higher immediately to keep them in!)


Idiot. You attack somebody for flaming a known troll... and then start to troll yourself. If that's not hypocrisy of the highest order I don't know what is.

Why not stick to the matter at hand rather than trying to divert attention?
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 34 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Mar-2004 08:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (takemehomegrandma):
So to sum it all up, there are basically four main reasons why Genesi has not been paying its staff and that things are going so badly for them:

1.) The ArticiaS, the devils chip itself.
2.) Pretory/Thendic and their bankrupcy.
3.) Bad Luck
4.) Amigaworld.net readers

I'd like to invite readers to take a look at

http://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1996/961116-sassenrath.html

Which reads quite similarly to Dales story and decide for themselves. One thing is for certain however:

1.) In 1996 the Articia S hadn't been designed
2.) Pretory/Thendic wasn't a part of the equation
3.) Amigaworld.net readers didn't exist

Which leaves bad luck, oh, and the same manager but that couldn't possibly be the case.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 35 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 26-Mar-2004 08:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
In case you were talking about me: Who tells you that my horizon is that small that I can just see two options to proceed? Some people have to finally understand that criticizing the one doesn't mean glorifying the other - and each other. And, by the way, I'm still happy with MorphOS.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 36 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 26-Mar-2004 08:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (IanS):
(If I would answer that Off Topic troll post then the attention
would obviously be even further diverted off topic, but perhaps that
was the point? Oh heck, am I just answering the post? Darn! Well, I
just think that some IanS person should look himself in the mirror
before calling other people hypocrite, because whatever wrong I
did, he did exactly the same!)
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 37 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 26-Mar-2004 08:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Senex):
Should mean "vice versa", obviously.

@Galaxy

While I basically agree with you, the problem here - referring to the situation as a whole (i.e. not only Dale's case) - is not the lack of payments in the first place, but the way the situation has been handled during all the monthes.

Despite the impression Genesi gave in the past regarding their financial ressources, I consider everyone who got involved to have been aware that with a start-up company a situation like this could happen. And therefore I think for most of them everything had stayed fine if they were told right from the start of the financial difficulties: "Listen, guys, because of the Pretory SA trouble (or whatever) we can't pay you anymore, but would really like to continue to work with you and of course we are going to pay you once we are able to do so again. Therefore we wanted to tell you frankly in advance how the current situation is so that you have the chance to look for additional or other sources of income for the next few monthes to pay your food, rent, insurances, etc."

Therefore it seems to be the lack of communication and honesty here which caused the trouble, not the lack of payment per se.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 38 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 26-Mar-2004 08:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Anonymous):
You "sum" my words up, by ignoring what I said, making new meanings
of my words, fabricating all brand new meanings where you think there
is a gap between what I actually said and the point you are trying
to make, and then put everything together in a modified context? Wow!
Well, my posts are at least still there if someone wants to "sum
things up" by themselves.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 39 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Mikey C on 26-Mar-2004 08:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Senex):
@ Sennex

" Therefore it seems to be the lack of communication and honesty here which caused the trouble, not the lack of payment per se."

Are you kidding? Try working for an employer startup or established, do x months work, then be told that you aren't going to get paid. or worse, not get paid and not be told.

Go home and tell your Mortgage company, Gas, Electric, wife, kids, etc that you haven't been paid. Then just smile broadly and say "It's okay though, they told me in advance that they weren't going to pay me, so I shouldn't grumble"

Sheesh.

Mikey C
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 40 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 26-Mar-2004 08:28 GMT
>"We will make every effort to pay you for the services you have provided over the past several months".

Does it mean: "do not sue us please" ?
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 41 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 26-Mar-2004 08:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (oGALAXYo):
Lots of good points there Galaxy, lots of things i can agree with.
Yes, the curse looks to me to be an ego/communication problem, and it's sad to see.

Cheers
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 42 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 26-Mar-2004 08:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Eva):
Things need to change, with *every* company if we ever hope to have a future with the amiga & related products.

Cheers
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 43 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 26-Mar-2004 08:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Eva):
Amen to that sister!
Here's to better times

Cheers
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 44 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Mar-2004 08:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Mikey C):
Oh no, here they come! Take cover!
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 45 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 26-Mar-2004 08:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (takemehomegrandma):
Money is only part of the problem, communication between individuals also needs to improve.

Cheers
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 46 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 26-Mar-2004 08:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (takemehomegrandma):
Perhaps... However, the situation at this day & age is different, and i think Dale's biggest 'anger' was the failure of proper communication.

NDA's suck when it comes to hardware

Cheers
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 47 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by bluvi on 26-Mar-2004 08:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Anonymous):
i hope this news are not causing any trouble to genesi for producing great pegasos2 board, and next version. as i see at amigaworld.net they already dreaming about next amiga one board after miniAone. even miniAone still not yet ready after > 7 month. and it is nice too see forum like morphzone filled with people talk about apps development, almost daily there is a new morpos natively apps, compare to amigaworld.net, filled with talk about pegasos2 not good, genesi & bbrv lie, and other that not constructive.
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 48 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 26-Mar-2004 08:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Senex):
Yes, giving them some facts at an early stage and an option to choose
themselves would have been nice!

BTW, this still stands IMO:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1076172906&category=forum&number=35#comment

I'll give them to the end of this summer to bring the real positive
momentum back. After that? Well, I'll continue to use MorphOS of
course, my favourite OS through all times! :-D
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 49 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 26-Mar-2004 08:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Jope):
Eyetech sofar has a rather solid reputation, you might consider them, unless you have problems with the price of the board & all the inuando that floats arround the ArticiaS.

@Takemehomegranda: I would prefer if you refrain from making comments on the ArticiaS, unless you have something new to add. The ArticiaS isn't the matter of this thread, and after having had a very nice conversation with Nate about this, i don't want to end up in a slagging fight about it again.

If you do feel the need to discuss it, please try & be constructive about it

Cheers
OpenBSD end pegasos support, (Dale's Story) : Comment 50 of 125ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 26-Mar-2004 08:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (takemehomegrandma):
Trying to shift the discussion towards a slagging match between the different sites are we?

Cheers
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