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[News] Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back!ANN.lu
Posted on 27-Mar-2004 18:34 GMT by samface (Edited on 2004-03-29 02:28:03 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä)143 comments
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From http://www.mindrelease.net/amiga-thendic/#65:

REPLY in Support of Motion filed by Plaintiffs Genesi Sarl, Thendic Electronics Components re 49 MOTION to Modify the Order Granting Specific Performance, (LT, ) (Entered: 03/25/2004)

Highlights:

Richard Hughes, Attorney for "Thendic", accuses Bill McEwen of perjury, refering to Bill McEwen's deposition taken on August 14, 2003, nearly four months following the sale Amiga's OS system to Itec wherein he testifies that Amiga's assets included its Intellectual Property Rights to AmigaOS.

Bill Buck testifies as a person with "'a unique knowledge base regarding Amiga'", refering to the days of when he was the CEO of a company that was partnered with ESCOM to develop and promote The Amiga Operating System through a hardware platform, claiming that "'applications such as a web-browser, an MP3 player, and a mail client are application programs that adhere to an operating system just as Microsoft Outlook Express is an e-mail application that works with Windows'". Furthermore, he concludes that "'If the Amiga DE Operating System did not include an operating system and was touted as beeing only an "application" as Amiga now contends, it could not have been promised or discussed integration of Java, MP3 and mail client as stated in the ("Agreement")'".

Bill Buck claims that he was the one who suggested that the Amiga Operating system and the AmigaDE should be seperate enteties as an explanation to his "'Amiga OS is an operating system, DE is something different that makes alot of things work in other than Amiga operating system environments'" statement.

Bill Bucks states: "'I believe the mail attributed to 'Fleecy Moss' was and still is from Fleecy Moss"'.

Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 1 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 27-Mar-2004 17:55 GMT
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 2 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Mar-2004 17:59 GMT
So thats the "knockout punch"? Oh well, lets see what the judge thinks of it.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 3 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by René W, Olsen on 27-Mar-2004 18:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Ketzer):
hoho The show must go on
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 4 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 27-Mar-2004 18:11 GMT
Oh my. It's like Muppet's Show.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 5 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 27-Mar-2004 18:22 GMT
I think BBRV is going to get a hard time i court now, just read Declaration 60 to 64, BBRV is going no where whit the email. he most prove it came from "Fleecy Moss", and think BBRV's motives are at stake hare.

I think this time, the ruling going to be specify on what's AmigaDE and what's AmigaOS and what BBRV has access to if he can provide Intent and other parits whit the information need to integrate AmigaDE to MorphOS or any other os that runs on Pegasus like OpenBSD, LinuxPPC or as Intent running stand alone on Pegasus.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 6 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Mar-2004 18:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Kjetil):
That reply also completely failed to address the fact that Amiga Inc. cant do anything at all without the proper documentation.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 7 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by XraalE on 27-Mar-2004 18:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Kjetil):
"I think BBRV is going to get a hard time i court now, just read Declaration 60 to 64, BBRV is going no where whit the email. he most prove it came from "Fleecy Moss", and think BBRV's motives are at stake hare."

I find myself agreeing.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 8 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 27-Mar-2004 18:41 GMT
I hope this Genesi "operation" is not funded by pegasos sales to Amigans ...

Or from the prepayment money of the resellers ...

Or from the salaries of certain unpaid guys...
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 9 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 27-Mar-2004 18:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Ketzer):
They fail to address many things, and counter argue things that was never stated as an argument to begin with. For example, when did Amiga Inc. claim that the AmigaDE would only be an application?

Bill Buck is acting like he would be some kind of "expert witness" when it comes to the difference between applications and operating systems, but at the same time doesn't seem to know what a runtime environment is, even claiming that Java would be an application. Of course even Bill Buck should know better than that, right?

Oh well, I'd say it's just a matter of time before KMOS puts an end to this whole story by pointing out the fact that "Thendic" does not even exist, which which would render Genesi's claim to be an affiliate invalid.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 10 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by NihilVor on 27-Mar-2004 18:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Ketzer):
So DE/Tao is an email prog., maybe a printer driver. DE has java; its not like Genesi is more likely to get java from the "inclusion" of OS 4 in the deal (which may be implied above), which, of course, runs neither java (not fully) nor DE. I thought it was a hosted OS. Does the above address why Amiga 4.0 should be considered as part of the original contract? This does sound a lot like "lawyer talk"—arguing semantics, which is the name of the game.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 11 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Mar-2004 18:56 GMT
Since that series of questions is finally available ... Bill was indeed asked what Amiga Inc. *posses* ... just as the judge ordered that "thendic" should receive possession of DE. Admittedly english isnt my main language but that certainly means to me that there is a difference between possession and ownership.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 12 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 27-Mar-2004 19:03 GMT
Hm, so Itec was around as of at least 2002, deposition was 8/7/2003 (if I'm squinting at that right), and rereading that more closely than most have bothered prior, the infamous $100 account was "some bank account from which to deposit the sales of the website".

If the investors decided to withhold further rounds and only write checks for specific activity... that's their ethics at fault, though were the issue pressed, I'm sure it's possible McEwen could take the fall for it. (Now, if they helped AI through tax season(s) or business-license-renewal(s) by buying a few hundred coupons... I'm not sure what to think about that.) One oft-cried "perjury" that wasn't, p'raps.

That leaves two things in the Realm of the Outright Fishy. First, the tests in Montana that someone said coincided with the deal with KMOS or Itec or whoever (taking that at face value, haven't doublechecked); given PhD-waving, it's easy to imagine a chuckle about 'Going to see the doctor,' but it also would've been easy to schedule a real procedure that just happened to take place on the date and in proximity to any business dealings. (That might count as "conspiracy" -- we all know nobody in Amiga-land is shiny -- but conspiracy's a hell of a lot harder to prove.) Second is claiming rights to Classic if they were in fact transferred, and that would make "All versions of the Amiga operating system" a stumble if deferring to Bolton was supposed to be a strategy.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 13 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Mar-2004 19:15 GMT
I like this one: <CITE>creating two complimentary systems Amiga DE and Amiga OS out of the Amiga DE operating system</CITE>.

Considering that Amiga OS was existent way before anyone ever imagined something like Amiga DE ...
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 14 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 27-Mar-2004 19:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Ketzer):
From http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/p057.htm:

POSSESSION - A person has possession of something if the person knows of its presence and has physical control of it, or has the power and intention to control it. [More than one person can be in possession of something if each knows of its presence and has the power and intention to control it.]

The law recognizes several kinds of possession. A person may have actual possession or constructive possession. A person may also have sole possession or joint possession.

A person who has direct physical control of something on or around his person is then in actual possession of it.

A person who is not in actual possession, but who has both the power and the intention to later take control over something either alone or together with someone else, is in constructive possession of it.

If one person alone has possession of something, possession is sole.

If two or more persons share possession, possession is joint.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 15 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Mar-2004 19:20 GMT
Oh and bb also hints that "DE" means "Development Environment". Spinmaster at work.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 16 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 27-Mar-2004 19:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (samface):
BTW, remove the ":" from the URL and it works.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 17 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 27-Mar-2004 19:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (NihilVor):
So DE/Tao is an email prog., maybe a printer driver. DE has java; its not like Genesi is more likely to get java from the "inclusion" of OS 4 in the deal (which may be implied above), which, of course, runs neither java (not fully) nor DE. I thought it was a hosted OS. Does the above address why Amiga 4.0 should be considered as part of the original contract? This does sound a lot like "lawyer talk"—arguing semantics, which is the name of the game.

If the judge bothers to entertain this line of thought, someone's going to have to define 'operating system.' FOLDOC provides one take on a generalized definition; the fact is that Operating Systems that mostly only run on other Operating Systems are rare, and haven't been called "operating systems." (Windows 3.1 was universally derided as a 'shell,' while it kinda-sorta provided the same features of Intent... without any of the benefits. Was a LISP Machine's environment an 'OS?' How about one of those LISP hosts built out of a hacked-up Mac? Commodore BASIC 2.0?)

Common law definitions are going to get ground up here, whichever side they support.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 18 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Mar-2004 19:31 GMT
Maybe my mind is slipping me, but was BB ever the CEO of ESCOM? Waybackmachine
came up empty handed (although it mentioned the sale of AT to VISCORP pending
both compnays approval (which never went through))
But perhaps BB has an additional business card with him beeing the CEO of ESCOM.

Besides, claiming to be knowledgable about amiga at the same time claiming to
have been the CEO of ESCOM is hilarious. What good did ESCOM do other than
funding Amiga Tech? Imho the real stuff was done by Petro et al. through Amiga
Tech
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 19 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 27-Mar-2004 19:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Anonymous):
Besides, claiming to be knowledgable about amiga at the same time claiming to
have been the CEO of ESCOM is hilarious.


Did I miss a good line? He said "CEO of a company that was partnered with (ESCOM)". Parentheses sic.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 20 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Mar-2004 19:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Anonymous):
You got that one wrong, "CEO of a company that was partnered with ESCOM". Viscorp?
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 21 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 27-Mar-2004 19:43 GMT
The show must go on!
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 22 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Mar-2004 19:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Ketzer):
I never read the court documents, I just read the above line:

>Bill Buck testifies as a person with "'a unique knowledge base regarding Amiga'", refering to the days of when he was the CEO of ESCOM

If that is qouted wrong, just ignore my CEO comment. The rest of it is rather
hilarious still ;)
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 23 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 27-Mar-2004 19:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
Yeah, its pretty funny that he draws unique information from being "bankruptcy ceo" for less than half a year and about a product that hasnt been thought of at that time.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 24 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 27-Mar-2004 19:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
"If that is qouted wrong, just ignore my CEO comment. The rest of it is rather
hilarious still ;)"

Samface at work?
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 25 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Joe on 27-Mar-2004 20:12 GMT
Garry Hare was the one who gave out fake buisness cards to people, he is the type of scum you should be targeting. Hare you fithly LIAR.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 26 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 27-Mar-2004 20:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
Ooops! My bad. Sorry about that.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 27 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 27-Mar-2004 20:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
That part wasn't exactly a quote, but yes, it was inaccurate. I should have stated "...refering to the days of when he was the CEO of a company that was partnered with ESCOM to develop and promote The Amiga Operating System through a hardware platform". The typo was not intentional, sorry.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 28 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 27-Mar-2004 20:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Emeric SH):
At work? No, I'm at home. :-P
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 29 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Mar-2004 20:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (samface):
One incorrect interpretation of plain English in the newsitem, kindly provided by samface:
"... refering to the days of when he was the CEO of ESCOM,..."

Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 18 of 26
Posted by Anonymous (217.215.11.93) on 27-Mar-2004 20:31:49

(comment 19 corrects "anonymous")

Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 22 of 26
Posted by Anonymous (217.215.11.93) on 27-Mar-2004 20:45:25
"I never read the court documents, I just read the above line:

>Bill Buck testifies as a person with "'a unique knowledge base regarding Amiga'", refering to the days of when he was the CEO of ESCOM "


Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 26 of 26
Posted by samface (213.114.40.60) on 27-Mar-2004 21:14:23
In Reply to Comment 19 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
"Ooops! My bad. Sorry about that."


Hey, spamface. Try to keep track of your identities. I think people have a hard enough time to try to follow your thought patterns as it is.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 30 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 27-Mar-2004 21:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
Huh? There's only one "samface" and I've not posted as anything else than "samface" in this thread. I really have no idea about what you're talking about nor what your quotes of those anonymous postings would have to do with me.

Comment #19 made me aware of the mistake to which I made an immidiate reply (comment #26) with a confirmation of the error and an apology to show that it was not intentional.

When reading comment #22, I felt the need to re-confirm and clarify the mistake by stating what the news item should have read (comment #27).

I don't know if there is any way I could make this more clear to you since I'm not even sure of what you're trying to say here, but I hope this clarifies.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 31 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 27-Mar-2004 21:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
Besides, it seems to me that you're the one that have a problem with keeping a track of your identity, mr Anonymous.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 32 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Mar-2004 21:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (T_Bone):
>The show must go on!

I fear it won't last much longer, eventually ;) one seems to be pretty finished...
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 33 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Dan on 27-Mar-2004 21:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Emeric SH):
>Posted by Emeric SH (81.182.80.204) on 27-Mar-2004 19:11:07
>Oh my. It's like Muppet's Show.
Compared to Bill Buck and Amiga Inc, Muppets are realistic and sane creatures.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 34 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by EyeAm on 27-Mar-2004 22:12 GMT
>Bill Buck testifies as a person with "'a unique knowledge base regarding >Amiga'", refering to the days of when he was the CEO of ESCOM

VisCorp AND ESCOM?

Hmm, never knew who ran ESCOM. That was the billion-dollar company that went bankrupt. Didn't VisCorp go under too?...like...Thendic....too?

Hey, I wonder what Atari would do with Amiga now, if it could finally get its hands on it after all this time. :) The so-called pro-Amiga people have tried almost everything else (except the right path, of course). (Sally Struthers voice): "Give Atari a chance... For the children."

--EyeAm
http://s87767106.onlinehome.us
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 35 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 27-Mar-2004 22:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Dan):
Compared to Bill Buck and Amiga Inc, Muppets are realistic and sane creatures.

Meet the Feebles.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 36 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 27-Mar-2004 22:22 GMT
Oh my god. I am amazed that anyone would have the gaul to enter such an extraordinary pile of bullshit into a court case. It just beggars belief! How can AmigaOS be a fork from Amiga DE, when AmigaOS was originally developed in the early 80s? What drug is Mr. Buck smoking? I'm speechless.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 37 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 27-Mar-2004 22:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Peter Gordon):
Oh yes, and the sooner the MorphOS and bPlan teams ditch Buck, the better. I feel sorry for you guys right now! You have nice systems and an OS, but some guy spending all his money on this crazy court case... *sigh*
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 38 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 27-Mar-2004 22:57 GMT
I've e-mailed Christian Kemp regarding my typo in this article, it will hopefully be corrected soon. Thank you Joe "Floid" Kanowitz for pointing it out.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 39 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Jim Henson on 28-Mar-2004 01:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Dan):
ROTFLMAO!!!!
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 40 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by EyeAm on 28-Mar-2004 01:50 GMT
R2D2: (whistle beep beep whistle)

C3PO: I certainly agree, R2. This is madness--madness I say. When will those people.

R2D2: (beep whistle buzz beep)

C3PO: Well I don't know who the Jedi would be in this case. And I see no sign of anything return at this time. It looks like they're all doomed.


--EyeAm (so lightened up...I gotta wear shades)
http://s87767106.onlinehome.us
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 41 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 28-Mar-2004 01:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Peter Gordon):
I am amazed that anyone would have the gaul to enter such an extraordinary pile of bullshit into a court case.

Worst. Pun. Ever.


The interesting thing is that some of the claims aren't so bad as points of fact -- Zico, though that version's been subject to as much 'interpretation' as any other (when's the last time we heard 'AMIE,' anyway?), always included the Firewire present on Pegasos; certainly plenty of people independently noticed the conflict of a 'run-anywhere' platform delayed for what seemed to be political reasons* -- but in the end, what does 'inventing' the idea of a device with a CPU, peripherals and keyboard... or wishing that a company would stop being stupid... have to do with anything?

The 'stop being stupid' aspect is, of course, what the case is about, but this crafts his own best argument for AI to transfer no IP, and owe monetary damages if anything, which would probably benefit Genesi, Thendic, or whoever more at this point, anyway... Except, whoops, (and if so, this even screws the Hon. Lasnik, who needs to find a way to resolve this to the satisfaction of the law) those are capped at the value of the contract, right? On the third hand, it's not like a sources'n'all fork of DE would even hurt AI right now,** especially stripped of any non-transferable components, and it's that particular future Genethendicwhoever's entitled to some fraction of the proceeds of (if the contract had been fulfilled way back when).

...AI are integrating "technology" into AmigaOS that, by his own admission, doesn't run on AmigaOS?

---

*So it turns out it was political, but not entirely for the politics we expected; AI gets no funding for DE until 4's gone, AI surprises everyone by following through on 4 without collapsing into rubble; 4 gets spun off (under impressive secrecy or retroactively, the jury's still out)... and this is all revealed only after Genesi admits it was after 4, not DE. So the DEalership finally got the Maserati in, but someone wants a Fiat for his trouble. (Or vice-versa, if the entendre's less amusing than the tendency of the latter to burst into flames.)

**It'd just redistribute the playing field, again, not much of a problem for a company that's never quite left the huddle. Though I am going to be disappointed if this carries on the tendency for everyone to declare the general market scary and go hide behind a 'services' model alone. (Not that there's anything wrong with services, I'm sure they're a hell of a lot more lucrative than direct sales, but if, as individual_dork here, I can't afford your services -- or have to go through hassle to find out if I can; sorry QSSL, I'm picking on you again -- I'm making you $0 even if I'm one of your tech's biggest fans.)

---

While composing an elided part of this comment, I hit upon the mental image of someone trying to reenact John Kerry's supposed heroism in a plane; "Business is war." -Jack Tramiel. It's tangential to my take before considering implications (they weren't intended, this sort of thing just happens to me), but it's amusing enough that I've got offer the thought ``as is.''

Any express or implied warranties, including, but not limited to, the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose are disclaimed.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 42 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Mendoza on 28-Mar-2004 02:28 GMT
http://home.polarboing.com/nicomen/hoax/quicksay?l=12
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 43 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Interesting on 28-Mar-2004 05:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (samface):
>>>That part wasn't exactly a quote, but yes, it was inaccurate. I should have stated "...refering to the days of when he was the CEO of a company that was partnered with ESCOM to develop and promote The Amiga Operating System through a hardware platform". The typo was not intentional, sorry.<<<

Next thing ....Buck is going to claim the contract with Escom is still in force!

LMAO
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 44 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Interesting on 28-Mar-2004 05:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Peter Gordon):
>>>Oh my god. I am amazed that anyone would have the gaul to enter such an extraordinary pile of bullshit into a court case. It just beggars belief! How can AmigaOS be a fork from Amiga DE, when AmigaOS was originally developed in the early 80s? What drug is Mr. Buck smoking? I'm speechless.<<<

What ever drug it is Rich Woods wants it!

Read moo bunny

lol
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 45 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Gru on 28-Mar-2004 05:46 GMT
Some people still don't get it. Bill Buck is obviously no dummy, McBill obviously is.

Bill Buck will likely get what he seeks, McBill will be press license plates in a cell next to Martha Stewart.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 46 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Toner on 28-Mar-2004 06:31 GMT
>Furthermore, he concludes that "'If the Amiga DE Operating System did not include
>an operating system and was touted as beeing only an "application" as Amiga now
>contends, it could not have been promised or discussed integration of Java, MP3
>and mail client as stated in the ("Agreement")'".

Because we know it is not possible to develop an application that runs inside of a Java VM, whre the Java VM is an application running on top of Windows, Linux, MacOS, Intent, or whatever. Or to write an application that runs inside of a Flash web browser plugin, which is an application that runs inside of a web browser, which itself is an application running on Windows or Linux or MacOS or Intent or whatever. (And I've seen more than just animations in Flash, I've used image manipulation tools on web sites made in Flash... As in me as a web browser finding a neat tool on someone else's web site, not as in me using Flash on my own web site, as I don't use it on my own site.)

DE is just another level of abstraction. It could have become an "Operating System" on it's own. That product interpretation failed to appear, just as the CashBoy failed to appear, as well as any other product specified by name in the "Thendic" agreement. Running DE on top of LinuxPPC is probably technically enough to satisfy the agreement as I understand the agreement. Amiga could sell their own branded distro of LinuxPPC even, bundled with DE. Perhaps doing something similar to the Amithlon product, specializing a LinuxPPC distro specifically for the sole purpose of running DE as Amithlon did to run an Amiga emulation, and throw out or hide the rest from the user... Do you consider Amithon to be an emulation integrated with Linux, or to be an emulation application which runs on top of Linux? It's all fun with semantics. ;)

Microsoft calls it's web browser an integrated component of the Windows Operating System. They say it's not possible to remove it, as Windows could not possibly work without it. So... How did versions of Windows previous to the "integration" step possibly exist? They're trying to do the same with Media Player. I consider both to be application level products that Microsoft puts in the same box on the same CD, and I consider them to be playing marketing games with their definition of "OS" and "application". This part of the lawsuit, I consider it to be just like what Microsoft says about it's stuff...

DE, as it is, is an application, just like a JVM is, and just as I see the Amithlon emulation as being on top of the Linux core. It perhaps fits between the JVM and the host OS, creating yet another level of heirarchy. It's not an "OS", and it is an application. It doesn't matter which of these two it is in order to be able to run Java or MP3 or email client on top of DE. Just as I don't need to know or care if Amithlon's emulation, MSIE, MSMP, or ANY JVM is an "Operating System" in and of itself, or "just an application" running on top of any "Operating System", I don't need to know or care if DE is an app or an OS, or if it is an app which OS I'm running on. The apps that run on top of DE certainly don't care which way it is, they just do what they do regardless... This just seems odd to me to be the key point in these arguments.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 47 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Toner on 28-Mar-2004 06:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Emeric SH):
> Oh my. It's like Muppet's Show.

Except that I liked the muppet show. This all reminds me more of Jerry Springer...
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 48 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 28-Mar-2004 06:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Joe):
IF one reads the AW.net interview; His intent regarding the said business card is for contacts not for presumed CEO position.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 49 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 28-Mar-2004 06:41 GMT
Tao’s Intent technology is more like a 'sandbox' than an mmail(OutLook) program.
Amiga vs Thendic Update: Genesi fights back! : Comment 50 of 143ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 28-Mar-2004 06:41 GMT
Tao’s Intent technology is more like a 'sandbox' than an email(OutLook) program.
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