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[News] Genesi vs ShopIPANN.lu
Posted on 04-Apr-2004 10:43 GMT by Hagge34 comments
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openbsd-misc I know we have talked about Genesi and OpenBSD earlier, but have we mentioned this mail aswell? May I ask why let this happen? There are some comments and threads over at OpenBSD Journal.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 1 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 04-Apr-2004 08:46 GMT
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=6499&offset=75&rows=90#216868
Genesi response to some of it.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 2 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Apr-2004 09:25 GMT
Yawn, not again - and awfully quick moderated as "news". Anybody here REALLY interested in BSD?? At this Sunday afternoon, I'd rather read an interesting and long AmiGBG report about AMIGA and not the Linux/BSD crap.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 3 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by oGALAXYo on 04-Apr-2004 09:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Hagge):
Thanks for starting another braindead Flamefest. Yes this email of yours was a matter of discussion earlier.

Always the same Trolls who have nothing better in mind. Sorry for calling you a such but honestly - You have Trolling mind otherwise you wouldn't post such breaindead junk.

You'd better of spent your time in some code rather than conspirating junk how you can piss other people off. Don't you think it's enough now ? I am totally upset with all this crap Amiga vs. Genesi and every little weener becomes a Lawyer and Judge. It's none of our business what these companies have for problems. They will most likely sort it out themselves one day, there is no need to put petrol on a dead fire again. Every business has problems, they will solve it.

greetings,

oGALAXYo
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 4 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 04-Apr-2004 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
I run BSD all time for many years so yes, I'm intrested. I wouldn't get an "amiga" which can only run the amigaOSes since they have no apps anyway, and will most likely die. So other OSes makes a huge difference to me.
Plus I think it's intresting to know WHY the whole thing was screwed up.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 5 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 04-Apr-2004 09:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (oGALAXYo):
I'm to lame and alone to code, whould be so much more fun with someone else.
Anyway regarding trolling, I agree I might upset a few people but I'm so tired of haveing all the companies screw up. I wanted an Amiga again but it seems like it will never happen because there is always something which goes wrong. I still hope, but it's now 12 years since my A1200 was produced so it's probably to late :(
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 6 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 04-Apr-2004 09:53 GMT
"I told him that the three questions noted above were the most critical. He said he would get me something soon. Instead, he simply asked for an immediate payment of over $2,000,000 for the Crunchbox, followed six months later by another $2,000,000 payment."

Heh, I guess that answers it all =P, I was to lazy to read it all in one swep.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 7 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Golem on 04-Apr-2004 09:55 GMT
Yes, that mail has been mentioned in earlier threads, maybe you could post links to the specific threads providing new info over at OpenBSD Journal.

Thanks
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 8 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by oGALAXYo on 04-Apr-2004 10:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Hagge):
> Anyway regarding trolling, I agree I might upset a few people but I'm so tired
> of haveing all the companies screw up. I wanted an Amiga again but it seems like
> it will never happen because there is always something which goes wrong. I still
> hope, but it's now 12 years since my A1200 was produced so it's probably to late

Look I do understand your feelings about a new 'Amiga' but how do you think your permanent trolling help solving this issue ? Every company has their problems and they need to solve them the best way they can. You don't help anything by bringing up this braindead junk over and over again (be it this one or other crap). What you achieve that way is pissing even more people off and turning even more people away from your (READ MY WORDS Y O U R) system. What you do here is shoting a bullet up your own head.

You should better go out and bring up the positive aspects that you earned from this seed rather than the negative aspects. Positive aspects is that there are Pegasos systems already build by Genesi and positive aspects are that there is a community working on MorphOS these days. The same way as Eyetech is working on native PowerPC solutions for their own and the Hyperion bro's working on OS4.

You need to change your way of view here. You see everything from a negative aspect as soon as someone reaches you a hand (with new Hardware and Software) you magicly turn around and make it look negative.

The OpenBSD aspect was a bad one and ? Who the fuck cares for OpenBSD and Theo the Rat and his really bad mouth. Do you think this is just happening for Genesi and only Genesi ?

How do you help this community if you bring up all this shit over and over again this is not about informing, this is only showing your social life to the public and how irritated and pissed you feel about everything. I for my own see it differently. I see this community re-animated again. I see people comming back and I see people working on native solutions again. People with ideas, competition, re-animation, more people to come.

If you want stuff to change faster then why don't you sit down and create your own little Amiga company with an own solution ? The Haage(sos) with HaageOS running on it ? When your company starts to get in trouble we then can show up with same rights like you and make a harrassment out of it ? You for your own won't like that either so please stop this crap.

You should try to contribute more positively to this community. I'd really like reading some positive stuff from you where I can reply to and say:

'Hey bravo, you have done something nice and now let me encourage you to continue.'

This is what we need here and not other stuff. 12 years are a long time. A lot of stuff simply came to an halt, people left, developer left, engineers left. But these people leaving doesn't mean that they forget their Amiga life. No they now simply live a life on Windows or Linux where they do feel dissatisfied and wish to come back to a new Amiga solutions. And hey even a shitload of us still visit Amiga pages (as I did even without Amiga) only to keep ourselves informed. We should show the public that we indeed expand. Genesi as well as the other companies, bPlan, Hyperion, Eyetech and even the AROS people did a great job over the years. They brought the name AMIGA in many ears again and people were clicking all sorts of links only to read about the news.

And please do not do like you never heard about the issues Genesi had earlier. We already chewed the sick shit over and over again. ArticiaS problems, Pretory problems, OpenBSD problems. Who cares what matters is that Genesi DOES HAVE a full working product on it's own it's called:

Pegasos II

and

MorphOS

The same way Eyetech and Hyperion are trying to survive with their solutions called AmigaOS4 and AmigaONE the same way the free volunteer group within AROS survives. It's all up the people who believe in the stuff and continue supporting and contributing to it. But this requires a way of thinking and you should start and be a good example. You don't want to be another Samface or one of these retards who keep on flaming the hell out of everything.

greetings,

oGALAXYo
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 9 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Apr-2004 10:50 GMT
If you don't want MorphOS -- don't forget that there is a bunch of
LinuxPPC distributions for the Pegasos that works GREAT! I really like
LinuxPPC, and everything you can do with OpenBSD you can do with Linux
too, and Linux has more support and momentum than BSD. OpenBSD is
still there if you are interested, and I have heard that a NetBSD port
might come up soon for the BSD fans too! :)
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 10 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 04-Apr-2004 10:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (oGALAXYo):
>You don't want to be another Samface or one of these retards who keep on
>flaming the hell out of everything.

Love you too, honey-bunny!

Seriously, I liked your post until I got to that provocative little snide-remark of yours. Nice way of ruining a perfectly just and reasonable post, Galaxy. If there is anything you would like to say to me, my e-mail is right above this post.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 11 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by coldfire on 04-Apr-2004 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Anonymous):
I can't see buying expensive PPC hardware to run linux. I know there are advantages to PPC architechture but it's far outweighed by the extremely low cost of X86 solutions for linux. Also the fact is that although linux runs on many platforms it is primarily coded for X86 and many of the apps are coded for X86 only.

coldfire
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 12 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Apr-2004 11:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (coldfire):
That became a bit off topic, don't you think? And by the way, isn't
this x86/PPC debate true for OpenBSD as well?

Use what you want, as long as it makes you happy! :)

I am perfectly happy with my Pegasos and MorphOS. This feels much
better to me than emulated 68k AmigaOS on x86 platform, but perhaps
that's just me (no, I know that it isn't just me, we are becoming
quite many now :)).
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 13 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 04-Apr-2004 12:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (oGALAXYo):
It's odd that you think that way when Genesi is related but not so when Amiga Inc/Hyperion afairs are related...
It's a perfectly reasonable post which can be used both sides, but somehow I don't see you defending Hyperion...
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 14 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by oGALAXYo on 04-Apr-2004 13:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (pixie):
> I don't see you defending Hyperion...

Please read my above posting until end then you figure out that I indeed do defend their positions as well. But this initial article was meant to throw even more mud to Genesi and not mud to Hyperion or something. I wanted to be ontopic somehow.

And until now it should be clear to everyone that I do have high respect to the works of Hyperion. I am quite a neutral person but it gets on my nerves reading all this bullshit over and over again. One flame didn't end and two new ones are being cut out of dust containing the same shit and oh wonder written by the same people.

This is nothing against Genesi, Hyperion, Eyetech, bPlan or whoever. It's about telling you people what I think about all this bullshit.

greetings,

oGALAXYo
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 15 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 04-Apr-2004 13:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (oGALAXYo):
Maybe the same problems are still being pointed out because the same problems still persist. Or rather, because the root(s) of the problems still persist... be it the t-shirt situation, DMA transfer problems, alienating partners, problems with paying employees, etc. I think it's only fair to those concerned (or interested) to point out that the problems haven't gone away, and are still unsolved after weeks, months, if not years.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 16 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 04-Apr-2004 13:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (oGALAXYo):
Well, I understand your point of view and believe it or not, but I've felt the same way as you many times. However, something would be really wrong if these kind of things didn't cause a tumult. It's because it causes such a tumult that people do whatever they can to prevent it from happening in the first place.

Furthermore, I agree that we shouldn't judge anyone nor any company by the fact that these kind of things happen, but *how* the individuals and companies involved handles the issues that arises from these events. From my experience, the tumult will last just as long as the issues remains unresolved.

You can take out your frustration at those participating in the tumult if you like, but that will just make you a part of the tumult like everybody else rather than solve anything.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 17 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous Orc on 04-Apr-2004 14:08 GMT
ouch

goodbye Genesi
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 18 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Apr-2004 14:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Christian Kemp):
> Maybe the same problems are still being pointed out because the same problems still persist

Persisting problems exists everywhere but are not discussed ad nauseam outside this strange community. It's a self-destructive streak. Maybe threads like this should be moderated down to "groundhog day" instead of elevating them to "news"?
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 19 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Squishy on 04-Apr-2004 17:37 GMT
I love this part:

"Genesi experienced a severe and continuing cash flow problem, due to a variety of reasons. December paychecks were issued in anticipation of a wire that never hit the accounts."

What a lame excuse - the Phantom Moolah! I wonder if it didn't arrive because the wire was dated to 2001? ;)
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 20 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Sebastian Heutling on 04-Apr-2004 18:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (coldfire):
> Also the fact is that although linux runs on many platforms
> it is primarily coded for X86 and many of the apps are coded
> for X86 only.

Could you give some examples? I don't like such arguments because I only know commercial applications and games where one doesn't get the source code, that do only work on x86 hardware. Others work quite well on various platforms.
But maybe you mean something different: linux and its software is mostly developed on x86 hardware resulting in possible problems on other platforms than x86.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 21 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 04-Apr-2004 21:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Squishy):
I think the attempts to make something suspicious out of the cheque
dated in 2001 really show how a lot of people really try to make
absolutely everything fit into some kind of theory that makes Genesi
look bad.

I mean.. come on. If you're going to send people useless cheques on
purpose, then surely there are a lot better ways to do it than to mark
them with the wrong date, so that the person receiving them can see
right away that it's not valid?

Now if these same cheques can't be cashed in anyway because the
account is empty, what's the point of also marking it with an old
date?

Really.. the "mistake" theory seems much more plausible. Of course,
this doesn't change the fact that the people who got the cheques are
unpaid. And that's quite bad. I agree with Christian that this is
something which will (and should) follow Genesi as long as the issue
remains. But it's no reason to keep flouting loads of other more or
less crazy conspiracy theories about Genesi. Come on, if someone just
heard 9 stories about how bad Genesi are, and it turned out they were
totally made up, do you think that person would listen when someone
warned about the real, existing problems?

I'm not sure there are no additional serious problems within Genesi
than the payment problems, but I do get tired of people crying "wolf"
with nothing at all to back up their claims.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 22 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 04-Apr-2004 22:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Johan Rönnblom):
Now if these same cheques can't be cashed in anyway because the
account is empty, what's the point of also marking it with an old
date?


If you write a bad check, you're obviously liable. If you write a pre-expired check, presumably the onus is on the recipient if they try to deposit it at an ATM. Thus, if you need a stall technique that avoids getting you in further hot water (or at least, makes it hard for people to figure out how to get you into further hot water), this is a fairly good one. But, as the guy at the Post Office said when I had to get a gift held on Christmas Eve, "You get one chance in a lifetime. Sure you want to cash it in?"

---

Now, as I've said elsewhere, the 'logic bomb' accusation pisses me off... Not because I do believe it or don't believe it, but because ShopIP (or whoever Parker represents) should know as well as anyone that it's essentially unprovable. If they're going to play that card, if they're really certain Genesi is the walking menace claimed, then they're obliged to call in the Feds and put an end to this one way or another. Sorry, but it had to be said. [At this point, ShopIP's made their reputation questionable for the statement... and if Genesi's clear of wrongdoing, their image could only benefit from an exoneration, anyway.]

Of course, nobody ever wants to heft the legal fees or have their records rifled through... That, as stated, is part of the deterrent.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 23 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 05-Apr-2004 06:08 GMT
Genesi is like other main Amiga related companies. They f*ck a lot of things up.

AInc: very poor R&D results and products, very poor PR (except amongs believers)
Elbox: very good R&D results and products, poor PR etc.
Eyetech with MAI: some usable R&D results, mixed PR (overall perhaps ~ok, +- 0)
Hyperion: very good R&D results, mixed PR
Genesi: very good R&D results, very poor PR (except amongs believers)
KMOS: no R&D/product results, ok PR (early days...)
Nova design: great R&D/product results, good PR
Individual computers: great, good
IOspirit: great, good
Matay: ok, ok
DCE: good, not so good
Merlancia: aaargh, oh no!
...

But people value different thigs. (Some people even love Microsoft.)

Someone could build a web site listing Amiga related companies and their failures etc... ;-)
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 24 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 05-Apr-2004 06:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (priest):
...

Reminds me of the "French military victories" Googlebomb :)
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 25 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 05-Apr-2004 10:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
I guess you have a bit of a point if the idea was to make the
recipient of the cheque unable to verify his/her claim against you.

But if that's what you want, why write any cheque at all? Doesn't make
sense at all to me. In that case, it would seem like a much more
logical action to send a letter claiming there's no money owed.

Anyway, Genesi have confirmed that they owe people money and that some
people got bad cheques, which further makes this theory rather
unbelievable, I think.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 26 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Interesting on 05-Apr-2004 11:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Johan Rönnblom):
>>>Anyway, Genesi have confirmed that they owe people money and that some
people got bad cheques, which further makes this theory rather
unbelievable, I think.<<<<<

Ok, Putting out bad checks is a bad matter.

The real question is, has Genesi made good, i.e. repaid those who got bad checks? If they still owe these people then Genesi has no busines spending money on new computer shows!

Pay your people owed first!
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 27 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Interesting on 05-Apr-2004 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Christian Kemp):
How about sending bad checks Christian? Did you ever get a bad check?
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 28 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 05-Apr-2004 12:47 GMT
well I just want to add one thing, avoid the temptation to give your time away.

On general terms, people are not rewards for being foolish, if you are foolish, you will be regarded as a fool, and you will be constantly taken advantage of.

if the ship's going down, jump.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 29 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 05-Apr-2004 13:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Interesting):
What makes you think Genesi spends money on "new shows"?

That said, it wouldn't help anyone Genesi is indebted to if Genesi
stopped selling stuff to make a revenue, would it?
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 30 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Interesting on 05-Apr-2004 16:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Johan Rönnblom):
>>>What makes you think Genesi spends money on "new shows"?

That said, it wouldn't help anyone Genesi is indebted to if Genesi
stopped selling stuff to make a revenue, would it?<<<<<

We are talking about the two Motorola shows here, and trust me they cost. You have a ton of expenses, booth rental,travel expenses on and on. Further its a gamble with the employees money. IHMO
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 31 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 05-Apr-2004 20:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Interesting):
As has been explained on moobunny and you are conveniently forgetting, Genesi is not paying for these shows. The individuals going are, along with support from Motorola. It's not a "Genesi's going to the show" thing, it's a "Motorola gave Genesi a little space at it's booth" thing.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 32 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Interesting on 05-Apr-2004 21:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Nate Downes):
>>>>>As has been explained on moobunny and you are conveniently forgetting, Genesi is not paying for these shows. The individuals going are, along with support from Motorola. It's not a "Genesi's going to the show" thing, it's a "Motorola gave Genesi a little space at it's booth" thing.<<<<<

You can save the sunshine and roses speech, Im not buying.

It still costs come $$
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 33 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 05-Apr-2004 23:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Interesting):
Out of individuals pockets, not company coffers. There is a world of difference.
Genesi vs ShopIP : Comment 34 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 10-Apr-2004 09:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Interesting):
> You can save the sunshine and roses speech, Im not buying.

So how come you're still interested?
What's your story?
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