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[Motd] Legal threats?ANN.lu
Posted on 06-Apr-2004 07:24 GMT by Christian Kemp (Edited on 2004-04-06 10:09:44 GMT by Christian Kemp)1057 comments
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I am currently being threatened by my former employer (they are "compelled [to] take action against [me]") for the way I am running ANN, and how this allegedly violates my employment contract with them ("interfere _in any manner_ with any business relationship between the Company and any of its customers or business partners"). This might entail drastic changes to the relative freedom of speech ANN has always allowed its visitors, or ANN might close down altogether. Updated 10:00 CET.
Legal threats? : Comment 1 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 05:31 GMT
What!???
Legal threats? : Comment 2 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Eva (80.181.37.114) on 06-Apr-2004 05:34 GMT
Christian, it's a 1 April joke?
:(
Legal threats? : Comment 3 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 05:34 GMT
From who? The only person I can think of who seems to have any money is Garry Hare :D
Legal threats? : Comment 4 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by o1i (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 05:34 GMT
It was a bad day, when the first lawyer entered the internet :(.

Whoever threatens you, will get a lot of flames from the ann crowd.
And I hope, you will get a lot of support.
Legal threats? : Comment 5 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 05:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (T_Bone):
Indeed, from whom? And what "way" would it be?
Legal threats? : Comment 6 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 05:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (T_Bone):
No. Try again.
Legal threats? : Comment 7 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 05:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Christian Kemp):
Is it one of the "Bills"?

Shit, I honestly cant think of WHO would have a legal complaint.
Legal threats? : Comment 8 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.196.251.94) on 06-Apr-2004 05:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Christian Kemp):
well, it looks like bbrv strikes back again, right?
this would at least explain, why all the mos links has disappeared a few days ago (ok, now they are back again, but nevertheless...)
Legal threats? : Comment 9 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 05:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Christian Kemp):
Hey, I don't think there'd be problems in telling us who's threatening you, and for what reason. So, just say it...
Legal threats? : Comment 10 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 05:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Fabio Alemagna):
Better yet, let the yellow bastard come up and say it himself in public.
Legal threats? : Comment 11 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 05:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (T_Bone):
> let the yellow bastard

Calm down, Troy :-) We don't know the reasons yet!
Legal threats? : Comment 12 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 05:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Fabio Alemagna):
:D
Legal threats? : Comment 13 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Jupp3 (193.167.144.30) on 06-Apr-2004 05:51 GMT
Bill Gates? :-)
Legal threats? : Comment 14 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 05:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (T_Bone):
One thing is for sure, though: if there's anything we're not lacking of, in this community, are law suits. No one else beats us on that one, we should be proud of it!
Legal threats? : Comment 15 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by hnl_dk (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 05:54 GMT
Can you tell what you should have been doing wrong - in their eyes?

You don't need to post who "it" is, if you don't whant to...

Best hopes
Legal threats? : Comment 16 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 (24.83.209.186) on 06-Apr-2004 05:54 GMT
This is the RUDEST crap I've heard to date!!!!

Someone's VERY WEAK out there! (You are a piece of scum!!! for being ANTI FREE SPEECH!)

Big baby doesn't like what I have to say about them? (IF I am right.)

Because of this, I WILL NOT guess.

BUT, I will say, I believe it's one of 2 people.

IF this is from the AOS side, PLEASE DO NOT PURSUE, and retract the threat too!!!!!!!

IT WOULD BE WRONG TO STOP US FROM COMMENTING!


HAS "Team Amiga" done wrong????? (I hope it's not from my "camp". It would not be good.)


Kkkomunity! What's next? ? ? ? ?
Legal threats? : Comment 17 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by itix (130.234.189.82) on 06-Apr-2004 05:54 GMT
"I am currently being threatened with a lawsuit for the way I am running ANN." Impersonation?
Legal threats? : Comment 18 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by TrustedUser (62.225.244.198) on 06-Apr-2004 05:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
It must be WrongPlanet! That is the only link that has no reappeared!
Legal threats? : Comment 19 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 05:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Fabio Alemagna):
Yea, we're giving SCO a run for the money. SCO's cases are easier to follow too.
Legal threats? : Comment 20 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 05:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (TrustedUser):
Lol!
Legal threats? : Comment 21 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 (24.83.209.186) on 06-Apr-2004 05:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Jupp3):
Lolololololololololololololol.......!!!!!

If it's him...GO TO COURT!


F A M E ! Remember MY name!!!!
Legal threats? : Comment 22 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (217.187.207.157) on 06-Apr-2004 05:57 GMT
Yes, put those stinkin OS4 banners away, they disturb me. :)
Legal threats? : Comment 23 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 05:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (T_Bone):
"Using your full first and last name is encouraged."

hmmm...

Fleecy?
Legal threats? : Comment 24 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Choochy (202.136.35.199) on 06-Apr-2004 05:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
Why do the nice comments always come from the Anonymous users!
Legal threats? : Comment 25 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 06:10 GMT
I am very sorry to hear this. I can only imagine two persons who could feel a reason to such actions. You might as well go all the way and say who it is now when you already have said this much.

Also, could we have a clarification; is it because of what *other people* say on ann.lu (then it's ann who is threatened (and in a way the owner/moderator)) or is it because of things *you* have revealed to the public on some occasions recently (it's you personally who is threatened for things *you* have done, and not ann in specific)?

And by the way, what are the terms of the "threats"?

I remember when amiga.org was threatened in various ways too. Things like this never looks good.
:-/
Legal threats? : Comment 26 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 06:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Atheist2):
Yeah, "I can beat Mike Tyson" ...
:-)
Legal threats? : Comment 27 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.196.251.94) on 06-Apr-2004 06:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
To bad that I was right....
Legal threats? : Comment 28 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 06:15 GMT
"how this allegedly violates my employment contract with them ("interfere _in any manner_ with any business relationship between the Company and any of its customers or business partners")."

Ahh. Now it's obvious.

Obviously bullshit. Jesus they could at least pay you first! Kiss me before you f*ck me.
Legal threats? : Comment 29 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 06:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (T_Bone):
Bill, man, knock it off. You arn't pissing Chris off with this, he's already miffed from not getting paid, mission already accomplished. All you're doing is pissing those of us who use this site off.
Legal threats? : Comment 30 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (62.226.37.226) on 06-Apr-2004 06:18 GMT
Sorry, but this is pointless unless Christian clearly expresses who is threatening, and of what he is being accused... hints are not enough. What do you expect, that we spend some comfort and moral support? May the force be with you... against the darkness around us.
Legal threats? : Comment 31 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 06:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (T_Bone):
Ehm, where's that coming from?
Legal threats? : Comment 32 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (209.49.85.10) on 06-Apr-2004 06:21 GMT
Well, bbrv, go ahead - if your actions result into any harm for ANN or even its closure, you can be sure that the very same vocal community you tried to gain to promote your products won't miss any opportunity in the future to spread the word about your behaviour. And anyone involved with Genesi who still keeps silent about bbrv's methods becomes guilty as well.
Legal threats? : Comment 33 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 06:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Fabio Alemagna):
In any case, I'd say let's stop with speculation and ask Christian to tell us how things are for real.

Oh, wait, we already asked him... :-) Chris, now do the right thing and say the whole story.
Legal threats? : Comment 34 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (217.187.207.157) on 06-Apr-2004 06:22 GMT
Stop that FUD, put up or shut up!
Legal threats? : Comment 35 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 06:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Fabio Alemagna):
Christian updated the article, it appears to be bbrv stating some type of noncompete or interference from the employment contract.
Legal threats? : Comment 36 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 06:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (takemehomegrandma):
OK the main post has been updated, but it still doesn't answer my questions. Is this because of what *other* people writes on this forum, or is it because of the things *you* made public during some time while you were employed? Also, what are the terms of the threats, and has any actions really been taken yet, except mail correspondance?

As I said, Christian, I am very sorry it came to this, and I hope that your post here will improve your situation (but I'm afraid it might be the opposite, it might even fuel the fire even more when a fire estinguisher might have been more suitable) ...
Legal threats? : Comment 37 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by HolgerB (213.54.174.228) on 06-Apr-2004 06:26 GMT
Once more bbrv is pissing off potential new customers and developers.
It's really sad to see how the management of genesi is destroying the
good reputation of morphos/pegasos with their actions. At least I
won't consider buying any products from this company. And I am
absolutely sure I am far from alone on this aspect.

@Christian Kemp:
Good luck! I really hope this lawsuite won't affect ann.lu too badly.
Legal threats? : Comment 38 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Velcro (194.200.52.204) on 06-Apr-2004 06:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
Banners? hmmm now that might be what its all about. Someones unhappy about Christian removing the banners that weren't paid for.
Legal threats? : Comment 39 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 06:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Velcro):
Could be anything, really.
Legal threats? : Comment 40 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 06:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (takemehomegrandma):
> OK the main post has been updated, but it still doesn't answer my questions.
> Is this because of what *other* people writes on this forum

Yes. Also because I don't remove "libellious statements". However, no single link has been pointed out to me that would contain any such libellious statements.


> , or is it because
> of the things *you* made public during some time while you were employed?

No.


> Also, what are the terms of the threats, and has any actions really been
> taken yet, except mail correspondance?

As far as I can see, no action has been taken yet.


> As I said, Christian, I am very sorry it came to this, and I hope that your
> post here will improve your situation (but I'm afraid it might be the
> opposite, it might even fuel the fire even more when a fire estinguisher
> might have been more suitable) ...

I tried the fire extinguisher... only to be stringed along on promises for a month, and then get dealt this blow.
Legal threats? : Comment 41 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 06:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (T_Bone):
Oh, well, hadn't noticed that.

Well, guess there is a point in what bbrv say(s), if Christian is still their employee?

Still, the whole issue stinks, and bbrv should know better than act like this... sincerely, it sounds like a pretty stupid move, imho... what good can it do to them? Only harm.
Legal threats? : Comment 42 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Gareth Knight (137.73.94.15) on 06-Apr-2004 06:36 GMT
I had noticed the disclaimer that appeared at the bottom of the main page - "All comments and news items are the responsibility of their respective posters." Ann.lu is on shaky ground and there are legal precedents where the site is held responsible for individual comments. If Ann.lu is to survive it must minimise the legal risl by following the Slashdot model, i.e. ensure all copyright and responsibility for individual posts resides with the author and notice is provided that it is not the responsibility of the site.

I doubt there is anyone who would want ann.lu to close. If the legal threats refer to Christian's relationship with ann.lu it may be wise to consider taking a back-seat on moderation or step down altogether.
Legal threats? : Comment 43 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 06:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Christian Kemp):
> Yes. Also because I don't remove "libellious statements". However, no single
> link has been pointed out to me that would contain any such libellious
> statements.

Then don't panic. Wait for them to point the statements out, and then decide whether it's the case to remove them.

After all, you're not entitled to know whether a statemenet is libellious or not, not to mention that you can't be deemed responsible for what other people write. If they think some statements were libellious, they should take it upon who wrote them.
Legal threats? : Comment 44 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by pixie (194.65.71.18) on 06-Apr-2004 06:42 GMT
I'm shocked!!
Legal threats? : Comment 45 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 06:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Gareth Knight):
> If the legal threats refer to Christian's relationship with ann.lu it may be wise to consider taking a back-seat on moderation

Screw that! They never bothered to comply with even completing the process of legally hiring him, why should he be held to an employment contract never engaged?
Legal threats? : Comment 46 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP (213.36.28.17) on 06-Apr-2004 06:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (T_Bone):
This sounds like a smart legal move, by someone who realises the weakness of their case.

Here is how it probably works, assuming it is Genesi:

1. Threaten Christian over the terms and conditions of employment -> If Christian takes the easy route out and goes with the "former employer" line he will claim he was never employed and the suit will never be brought, "former employer" gets it on record that he was never employed and will not be liable for any legal claims under lux law.

2. Alternative, Christian does not back down, continues to claim he was employed, therefore it will be a rush between this suit and countersuit - a matter of who backs down first.

The risk here is that by bringing the threat to bear, "former employer" admits they were actually the employer and effectively admits any liability for meeting its obligations under lux law.
Legal threats? : Comment 47 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele (80.104.189.37) on 06-Apr-2004 06:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (HolgerB):
Mr. HolgerB said:

>Once more bbrv is pissing off potential new customers and developers.

Could it be BBRV or someone else, we still don't know about it...

BUT

This is a certain reason for me not to consider anymore the products this person (he who menaced Chris) could sell...

And to spread the news of this bad action everywhere on the web, just to increase consciousness by other people versus these villain actions.

By the way...

If you need money for a legal action Chris...

Just start a Paypal request, with the title: «for the legal action» and we all will help you.

/me for sure...
Legal threats? : Comment 48 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 06-Apr-2004 06:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (DaveP):
Unfortunately for whoever is threatening Christan, there's another possibility:

3. Christian has not been fully employed, but still he's been asked to do some work for the supposed employer. This work, apparently has not been paid. Chirstian has a case here, both for the fact that he wasn't really employed (yes, it's illegal in EU), and for the fact that he's not been paid for work he's done.
Legal threats? : Comment 49 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP (213.36.28.17) on 06-Apr-2004 06:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Fabio Alemagna):
Fabio

Good point. Oh and Christian, I may have some issues with the things you have said and done in the past, however I would also pitch in with money to help you fight this.

Dave.
Legal threats? : Comment 50 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund (81.229.105.123) on 06-Apr-2004 06:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Christian Kemp):
> Yes. Also because I don't remove "libellious statements". However, no single
> link has been pointed out to me that would contain any such libellious
> statements.

Even the goddamn Church of $cientology have the common courtesy to point out what's supposed to be libellous and ask for that to be removed before they call in the Lawyer High Priests!

Oh well, I suppose they thank Buck over at the Alternate Reality Portal, now that the existence of this "blue troll" haven and source of "blue FUD" and "Genesi propaganda", run by "Genesi's payed lackey", is at risk. Hah. :P

Christian, doesn't that employment contract of yours say anything about getting payed? Maybe they should fulfill their part of the agreement before threatening you for what people say in your open forum, or just cancel the contract as it doesn't seem to be worth much anyway.
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