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[Motd] Legal threats?ANN.lu
Posted on 06-Apr-2004 07:24 GMT by Christian Kemp (Edited on 2004-04-06 10:09:44 GMT by Christian Kemp)1057 comments
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I am currently being threatened by my former employer (they are "compelled [to] take action against [me]") for the way I am running ANN, and how this allegedly violates my employment contract with them ("interfere _in any manner_ with any business relationship between the Company and any of its customers or business partners"). This might entail drastic changes to the relative freedom of speech ANN has always allowed its visitors, or ANN might close down altogether. Updated 10:00 CET.
Legal threats? : Comment 101 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 06-Apr-2004 09:16 GMT
Whitout places like ANN there would not be any Amigans left anymore. We all live all around this planet and we need common sites like this, places where we can talk to each other freeley. Christian has done good work for this community and I really can't understand attacks like that against him and this site :P
Legal threats? : Comment 102 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 06-Apr-2004 09:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (miksuh):
Miksuh: Agree ....
Legal threats? : Comment 103 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 09:19 GMT
Trolls United Inc. hereby declare their support for ANN.Forum must not be closed down or censored, happy trolling must be allowed tocontinue! Trolls United propose issueing $50 coupons for the rescue of ANN.*UGGH*
Legal threats? : Comment 104 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 09:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Anonymous):
With free T-shirt "I AM ANN TROLL".
Legal threats? : Comment 105 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by SevillaF.C. Hasta la Muerte on 06-Apr-2004 09:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (rayt):
I agree totally with you.
The blue and red hostilities between only bring bad consequences. I hope to see some day both platforms united by a same objective. On ANN, to say that it seemed to me a blue Web, so this must hurt.......
Legal threats? : Comment 106 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 09:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Amon_Re):
Please dude, don't abuse of this issue to further your agenda, ok?
Legal threats? : Comment 107 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Ryu on 06-Apr-2004 09:24 GMT
I offer my support too christian, both financial and moral.
Legal threats? : Comment 108 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 09:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (Amon_Re):
> that coward won't be making any explications any time soon.
^^^^^^^

> I never expected him to fall to this level of lowlife.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> I pity the people whom are involved with the scumbag
^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^

Look, it's because of people like you that this issue has been brought up in the first place. Why don't you crawl back under your rock instead of spreading crap over this site?
Legal threats? : Comment 109 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Ben Hermans):
> I would be very surprised if there was any basis whatsoever for any litigation > against you Christian.

D'oh! Look who dares to speak about unsubstantiated litigations! LOL! :-)
Legal threats? : Comment 110 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 09:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Fabio Alemagna):
Bah, didn't come out well.

> that coward won't be making any explications any time soon.
·······^^^^^^^

> I never expected him to fall to this level of lowlife.
·······························^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> I pity the people whom are involved with the scumbag
···^^^^^^······································^^^^^^^

Look, it's because of people like you that this issue has been brought up in the first place. Why don't you crawl back under your rock instead of spreading crap over this site?
Legal threats? : Comment 111 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 06-Apr-2004 09:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Fabio Alemagna):
I think it's a fake post. Hermas has been having trusted-user status long time.
Legal threats? : Comment 112 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by unclewilli-amigalover on 06-Apr-2004 09:37 GMT
this is why i stoped posting on many sites, because it appeared or personal way of thinking was being directed for some special intrest..or reason...?
Legal threats? : Comment 113 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by oGALAXYo on 06-Apr-2004 09:38 GMT
Hello Christian,

I would like to ask you whether it is possible to put the MorphOS Links back into your Link list on the right. I am not judging your decision why you removed them (again) but whatever your concerns and problems are with that company. I please you to solve it internally and do not hurt us users with that. We are probably the last persons on earth, who can solve these issues between you and the company.

All I ask for is a normal reading on your page, visit it as respectful visitor and if possible be able to click on the links that forwards me on other AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS related pages.

You should also view the situation from another point. As more you allow people to bring up all sorts of bullshit as more the general problems increase and as more it gonna affect you too. I as reader am very irritated with many so called 'proves', 'articles' etc. which are only meant to destruct and harm the own community. I for my own can not call this a good thing and I already lost interests reading such articles because I can't tell whether they contain truth or false statements.

These articles are responsible for all these heatened debattes and a lot of pure bullshit. I would even tend to say it's totally insane and beyond good and respectful manners. If you have problems with a company then ring up your shyster and solve it in a way that don't affect other participants and readers of this community. The quality of alot of comments and articles on ANN are only based around how we can piss ourselves up, how we can piss remaining companies up, how we can piss everything and the whole world up. The quality of ANN is lower than on Slashdot or even OSNews.com. Amiga.org, MorphZone.org, Amiga-News.de yes and even AmigaWorld.net (in their own world) have far better quality of stuff to read about. They do present news, sure some of them even change the news so they fit into their own little world. But the stuff happening on ANN quite often only turns around the same shit, over and over again. There is no need for you quitting ANN. As for now I think that they majority of really serious participants either totally shut up or quit participating to normal conversations because of the same low quality. This is nothing about Amiga news anymore.

I hope I was able to reply quite neutrally here. Also please respect my direct reply to you.

greetings,

oGALAXYo
Legal threats? : Comment 114 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 09:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Ben Hermans):
> You are not responsible for any statements posted here by third parties

Not exactly correct. In D and maybe all of EU, web site owners are repsonsible for user statements on their site if brought to their attention and removal is requested (usually applies to insults). Doesn't mean they'd loose the case but it's certainly inconvenient to be dragged before a judge.
Legal threats? : Comment 115 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Ed Perry on 06-Apr-2004 09:42 GMT
So if I buy a Pegasos, am I actually helping to fund the lawyers that will sue community websites?
Legal threats? : Comment 116 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Red Melons on 06-Apr-2004 09:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Anonymous):
I join the petition
Legal threats? : Comment 117 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 06-Apr-2004 09:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (priest):
>Oh! Shock! AW link IS back! Or am I hallusinating AGAIN?
Today it's the shock day ! ;) Amiga land never fails to surpise us...
Legal threats? : Comment 118 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 06-Apr-2004 09:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (oGALAXYo):
"They do present news, sure some of them even change the news so they fit into their own little world."

If you want to explain what this is referring to, either here if you'd like or in email I'd appreciate it.
Legal threats? : Comment 119 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 06-Apr-2004 09:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (oGALAXYo):
" I would like to ask you whether it is possible to put the MorphOS Links back into your Link list on the right. I am not judging your decision why you removed them (again) but whatever your concerns and problems are with that company. I please you to solve it internally and do not hurt us users with that. We are probably the last persons on earth, who can solve these issues between you and the company. "

Maybe you should wait to ask, untill after we find out if Christian shuts the site down.
Legal threats? : Comment 120 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Peg2 on 06-Apr-2004 09:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Ed Perry):
Exactly! Unfortunately not the MorphOS developers and others who should deserve it.
Legal threats? : Comment 121 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by cyberamiga on 06-Apr-2004 09:49 GMT
With all this B***S**T I'm just happy for NOT buying a Pegasos. Instead I got an A1XE
Legal threats? : Comment 122 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 09:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (JoannaK):
> I think it's a fake post. Hermas has been having trusted-user status long time.

Might be, still, my comment stands, just in case :-)
Legal threats? : Comment 123 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 06-Apr-2004 09:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Fabio Alemagna):
I don't understand you Fabio, are you endorsing BBRV on this one!?
Legal threats? : Comment 124 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Tcheko on 06-Apr-2004 09:53 GMT
Amiga community is still alive!

How many comments will produce this thread? :)

http://dallasjr.free.fr

Have a nice day.
Legal threats? : Comment 125 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 06-Apr-2004 09:54 GMT
Well, I've been trying to expose the character of the "former employer" for a considerable time, but not many people would listen. Now perhaps you'll believe me?

This is an outrage. Do remind your former employer than since he terminated your contract of his own choosing, you are no longer bound by the conditions of that contract. Otherwise, we might all believe that the reason behind him employing you (and other webmasters) was no other than to try and destroy the freedom of speech on Amiga community websites.
Legal threats? : Comment 126 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by OnlyHereForOnce on 06-Apr-2004 09:56 GMT
Normally I do not read here, nore write - I just was lured here by a
commentary of a friend. And I have to say, I won't stay here.

This whole ann.lu site and its followers are so ridiculus.

Companies and the ann.lu guy are writing here, playing absolutly
unprofessional little FUD-games. It is worse than a soup opera on
TV.

It seems to me, their companies are so small and insignificant,
they need the cheer and toadyism of even more insignificant amiga-
morons. Don't you have no other live?

Your'e all little casulties of their chess games.
You give them all your money and get nothing, but you admire all
their games and FUD.
And now it is time for the next holiday special - hahaha...

You lose!

It is a waste of time to read and write here.

Get a Pegasos or AOne or whatever is available und use it,
instead of wasting your time with waiting, whining, FUDding, or
angering around on amiga sites.

If you go on you won't beat your imaginary foes, but only get a
heart attack.


At least this ann.lu site told my, not to buy any Amiga product
in the future anymore... :(

Good bye from this lamer site... :-D
Legal threats? : Comment 127 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 09:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (pixie):
> I don't understand you Fabio, are you endorsing BBRV on this one!?

How is NOT endorsing insults equivalent to endorsing BBRV?
Legal threats? : Comment 128 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 09:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Ed Perry):
Yeah, like if you buy an Aone or OS 4.0 which helps to fund a company, namely Amiga Inc, which has ripped of money from users in the past.
And thats the point.. Nothing in the so called Amiga Community has left anymore...
Legal threats? : Comment 129 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Gregs on 06-Apr-2004 10:00 GMT
Chris, I read about this on AW.net and had a look at your news item.

I would say to you to relax. You ran this site before any contract was signed, it was no secret, nor the nature of the site, arguable your role on the site is one of the reasons a contract of employment was sought.

In otherwords what happens on this site was pre-existing, known and achnowledged by all concerned. The freewheeling and open nature of the site was if anything one of its most notable features.

This person has a rather wierd understanding of contract law. No doubt you can be sued, anyone can be sued about anything there is no threat in this as such. Would such a case have merit? I can't see how.

The contract was not fulfilled by the employer, he cannot then use a subclause to direct your post employment practices, where the purpose of the contract (your employment for a period) was unfulfilled, unless he can show that the contract was signed in good faith and despite all reasonable efforts failed because of unplanned contigencies.

However, I don't think this last condition can be demonstrated. Rather it may be argued with some force that there was never an attempt by the employer to fulfill the contract, rather the contract itself may be seen as a trap, intended all along to subject you to obscure subclauses.

It is not unusual to have such subclauses, but their purpose is to restrain an employee from working with a competitor and delivering to them trade information or other data that could hurt their commerical intersts. It is not a subclause for bonded lifetime slavery - it is not a subclause that can be applied to stop you acting in capacities that you fulfilled before the contract was signed, and it is certainly not a subclause intended to allow defacto control over assets, let alone dictate your journalistic or moderating performance.

In short, this is bluff and bully tactics. Yes you may be compelled to court, as I could be, or anyone could, for reasons without merit, however, how far this can be taken is another matter altogether. I am not giving legal advice, but would if I were in your shoes, I would not pay such threats much heed nor be overly concerned.

I hope this may be of some help, I am disgusted that such pathetic threats should be used, I will not express my opinion on the character of person who has alledgedly made them.

Greg Schofield
Canberra Australia
Legal threats? : Comment 130 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 06-Apr-2004 10:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Bill Hoggett):
Just a minor correction: I wasn't terminated, I quit (officially - registered letter).
Legal threats? : Comment 131 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 06-Apr-2004 10:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (cyberamiga):
"With all this B***S**T I'm just happy for NOT buying a Pegasos. Instead I got an A1XE"

The bullshit doesn't make the Pegasos itself, or MorphOS, bad products. Most users seem happy with them.

However, you might not want to contribute to Genesi as a company if you don't like the management. It's hard to find a company in the computer trade whose top management can be respected or trusted. I suspect the armaments and drugs trades are the same.
Legal threats? : Comment 132 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Gregs on 06-Apr-2004 10:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (Christian Kemp):
Sorry Chris, correct me if I am wrong, although you did quit, you were also not paid for a considerable period of the time you were "employed". If this is true, in effect, the contract was breached by your employer, your resignation merely stated this formally.

Greg Schofield
Canberra Australia
Legal threats? : Comment 133 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Würgler/Pagan on 06-Apr-2004 10:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Fabio Alemagna):
fabio:
" Look, it's because of people like you that this issue has been brought up in the first place. Why don't you crawl back under your rock instead of spreading crap over this site?"

Actually I can only see one person who is causing this and that would be Christian's former employer.

I agree that we should keep the language civil, but trying to calm the waters won't work here. There's one crook - and just one.
Legal threats? : Comment 134 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 10:16 GMT
Put back those Morph links immediately or ANN will be shut down faster than you ever imagine!
Legal threats? : Comment 135 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 10:19 GMT
Just for consideration: at this point, the story is one-sided, placed by Christian on his own site, and not fleshed out with details. We can not verify facts, haven't heard the other side and don't know if claims made are true. Everybody is just jumping to conclusions. I personally found some of Christian's actions questionable in the past, such as placing the "advertising was not paid for" troll sign on ann. Neither do I like the removal of links to morphzone etc. I get the impression that, sometimes, ann and its visitors are used by Christian to score points (cheated out of money, now taking his revenge). I don't want to be used that way. Clear statements, facts: fine. But the backstabbing, from all sides, starts to get on my nerves.
Legal threats? : Comment 136 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 06-Apr-2004 10:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Anonymous):
> the story is one-sided

Who cares? I trust him. If Christian say's he's being dealt with in a certain way, it's good enough for me.
Legal threats? : Comment 137 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Perver on 06-Apr-2004 10:25 GMT
I think this is utterly pathetic, that companies such as Amiga and Genesi can go to the extent of what they are doing, tearing apart the amiga community. It clearly shows both companies have completely lost control.

On the other hand, if Genesi are determined to take this to court, then it's probably not a good idea, even though Christian may be very angry, to be discussing it in a public forum like this.
Legal threats? : Comment 138 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 10:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Anonymous):
> But the backstabbing, from all sides, starts to get on my nerves.

I totally agree with that.
Legal threats? : Comment 139 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 10:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Anonymous):
So the MZ links are indeed removed again - "well done", bbrv! You will never learn it, right?

Who's going to put up a poll: "Imagine bplan would break with bbrv - do you think this would be a benefit for the whole Amiga/MorphOS community?"

Regarding the "one side view" of comment 135: How many more of these "one sided views" are needed? There are lots of people meanwhile who experienced bbrv's behaviour.

As I said already in comment 32: Those around Genesi who still keep silent become guilty as well.

/me keeps waiting for the reunion of the Amiga community, the friendly co-existance of MorphOS and AmigaOS4 - once bbrv will have gone finally away...
Legal threats? : Comment 140 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 10:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (T_Bone):
> Who cares? I trust him. If Christian say's he's being dealt with in a certain way, it's good enough for me.

Yeah, but he just didn't say much, did he? Named no names, gave no facts. If I peel his message down to its core, it is an unsubstantiated warning. Somebody has issues with how he runs the site and his warning is that "censorship" on ann could be stricter in the future (or that he might prefer to close ann). That alone does not shock me, it's more or less inevitable that sites like ann and moobunny at some point upset somebody.
Legal threats? : Comment 141 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 06-Apr-2004 10:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (hammer):
Legal threats? : Comment 52 of 139




Posted by hammer (203.26.24.217) on 06-Apr-2004 09:00:40

Why not setup a legal entity and transfer www.ann.lu and related items to that entity?
----------------
Somebody's thinking! A corporation or a LLC or whatever.
Legal threats? : Comment 142 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Gadd on 06-Apr-2004 10:39 GMT
If it is you Buck then attack the bunch of incompetent fools at KMOS,Eyetech & Hyperion as they deserve all the bad luck in the world instead of this website.

Say NO to CENSORSHIP.
Legal threats? : Comment 143 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by BBRVWillLookUpMyIP on 06-Apr-2004 10:40 GMT
Is Fabio paid by Genesi? I can see no other reason for him to support every fishy move from BBRV.
Legal threats? : Comment 144 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 10:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (Thomas Würgler/Pagan):
> Actually I can only see one person who is causing this and that would be
> Christian's former employer.

I don't. I only see a news item that makes no names, Christian that dispels no doubts, and people who have raged agains BBRV for ages and now find themselves at home, and think they're free to talk crap as much as they want - without Christian moderating them down.

It seems like Christian wanted some sort of revenge, after all, and purposedly and carefully worded a news item to cause trouble. Can you really disagree with that? All evidence points to it.

I find it pathetic, to say the least, that some people don't even have the decency to shut up until things are clearer, from ALL sides.

> I agree that we should keep the language civil, but trying to calm the waters
> won't work here. There's one crook - and just one.

No, not just one, rather as many as the ones that act without thinking twice about what they're doing. This community is full of "crooks", from all sides.
Legal threats? : Comment 145 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 06-Apr-2004 10:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (BBRVWillLookUpMyIP):
What are you talking about? Fabio showed no support for this move
Legal threats? : Comment 146 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 06-Apr-2004 10:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 127 (Fabio Alemagna):
Because some people see it as black and white. Some people like to play public image games, share incomplete truths and etc. Other people jump on these kind of stories to 'celebrate' their victory, or speak 'I told you so' (just look at amon re and the likes). People involved in this should've handled this issue differently. But hey, this is Amiga Soapopera. I petition to have a petition. Things will never change I guess.
Legal threats? : Comment 147 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Mendoza on 06-Apr-2004 10:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (oGALAXYo):
I don't know the history of leaving out Genesi-related sites, but I urge Christian to add a link to one of the AROS community portals; for instance aros-exec.org or another one...
Legal threats? : Comment 148 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 10:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (BBRVWillLookUpMyIP):
Please, point out the message where I expressed support for BBRV?
Legal threats? : Comment 149 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 06-Apr-2004 10:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Atheist2):
Posted by Atheist2 (24.83.209.186) on 06-Apr-2004 09:10:46

This is one of Genesi's SADDEST days and acts, I must say.
----------------
Seems there is no evidence or direct accusations of such. Wait until full details are made public.


I apologize to Rich Woods. You are the second person that I thought may have been behind this.
-------------------------
You know - I left you a pint and a CD ROM at Maxim's - you poured out your heart you are a ugly geek (your description of yourself pretty much) with no money and didn't even have the clothes to meet me at a bar. And I took care of you - not even meeting you.

And now you speculate I had something to do or was behind this "situation" shall we say.

You are pretty pathetic atheist2. You have admitted you pretty much are a person with little or nothing and you are going to pass judgement on me?

Sheesh - I have tried to make sure Christian got his 10% of the money I spend on Dreamhost - and also 1 or more donations to his site for his expenses of running ANN.

At least I do what I talk about and just don't talk about what I am going to do.

You really owe me an apology - not that I expect you would ever give one - but just to make the "situation" public.
Legal threats? : Comment 150 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 06-Apr-2004 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Anonymous):
Posted by Anonymous (195.212.190.98) on 06-Apr-2004 09:52:34

In Reply to Comment 69 (Anonymous):
Hey rich wood where are you?
-------------
In Phoenix, AZ.
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